Thru the Bible

Steve Schwetz: On God's timeline for the future, what happens when? You hear a lot of confused teaching about prophecy. But if you want to understand the Book of Revelation, come to "Thru the Bible" as our teacher, Dr. J. Vernon McGee, walks us through Revelation 20, a passage of prophecy rarely taught in churches. So as you find your place in God's Word and get ready for our incredible study, let's hear from a few of our fellow passengers on the Bible Bus. First, a voicemail from a listener in Florida.

Guest (Female): Somebody gave me a cassette tape of Genesis back in the '90s in South Carolina. And now I live in Florida. I lived in California; I've lived a lot of different places. And I've always been able to listen to McGee. But about four and a half years ago, my husband of 45 years started listening to the Bible with me.

And during that time, we were going through a very critical time in our relationship, really, really trying. And no matter what, we still listen to McGee, and we learn so much all the time. I'm so thankful for this ministry, and I'm thankful for all the people that listen and support and pray. And I just praise God for a ministry—there's no other like "Thru the Bible."

And I'm glad I've been a part of it for many years, off and on. So I listen through the app and I listen through the radio. And every day when I get in my car, thank you for all the work. Thank you for all those who make this possible, and all the listeners, all the prayers, all the everything. I praise God for it. Thank you.

Steve Schwetz: Well, thanks for sharing. It's great to hear from you. And then we've got another message. This one from Gertrude, who tells us this.

Guest (Female): I love to tell the story because in the Bible, I am brought closer to my Savior. And I love "Thru the Bible" because it draws me closer to the Savior. My name is Gertrude and I live in Hopewell Junction, New York. That's upstate. Steve, I'm half-Ukrainian. I enjoy you and Gregg and the banter that you give us every day between yourselves, and your missionary report and the letters, especially from all over the world.

I'm totally blind with a hearing problem, so I can't avail myself of most of the materials that you offer. But I have used your notes and outlines in the past in Braille, and I want my other bus riders to know that they are still available and they're very helpful. I enjoy Dr. McGee's straightforward preaching of the Word. We need that more today—more of the Word, less comedy.

I really love everything about the program. My only complaint is that it is too short. I'm praying for you every day. I love you all in the Lord. Take care of yourself and may God bless you in the work he's doing through you, through us. Love in Christ, Gertie from Hopewell Junction, New York. God bless you guys. Bye.

Steve Schwetz: Gertrude, I'm so glad that you join us each day. And there's really unfortunately nothing I can do about the program being too short, but I'll keep saving your seat right here on the Bible Bus. And we'd like to hear from you too. So why don't you tell us how our time together in God's Word is impacting your life? Has going through the Bible with Dr. J. Vernon McGee taught you something about God or His Word?

Or maybe your story is one of family legacy. Did you first ride the Bible Bus second-hand, maybe as a child, because your mom or maybe a grandparent listened faithfully? Well, like I said, we'd really like to hear your story. Just leave a message anytime at 1-800-65-BIBLE. That's 1-800-652-4253. Or drop a note in the feedback section of our app.

You can email us at biblebus@ttb.org or send a letter to Box 7100, Pasadena, California, 91109. In Canada, Box 25325, London, Ontario, N6C 6B1. Let's pray. Lord, thank you for Your Word. And please give us ears to hear Your truth and hearts to receive it with faith and obedience. Shape us by it, strengthen us through it, and then send us out to live it for Your glory. In Jesus' name, amen. Let's go to Revelation 20 on "Thru the Bible" with Dr. J. Vernon McGee.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Now I'm going to read again today the passage I read last time, verses 4 through 6, because I did not deal with it adequately and this is such an important section. I'm reading now from my translation, which I would never recommend to anyone.

"And I saw thrones and they sat upon them and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the Word of God, and whosoever worshipped not the wild beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead or upon their hand. And they lived again and reigned with Christ 1,000 years. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection."

And by the way, the reason he says that, the first resurrection is of the saved; the second resurrection is of the lost. They're raised for judgment and we'll see that later. "Over these, the second death hath no authority, any power, but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ and shall reign with Him 1,000 years."

Now here in six verses, we have had given to us—actually, we have three more verses coming up, 7 through 9, and in nine verses, we have had the word "thousand years" repeated six times. It must be pretty important to put that kind of emphasis upon it. And therefore, let me say that the early church believed in what was known as chiliasm. That was the teaching of the early church, and those that rejected it were considered actually in a state of heresy because the early church believed in a literal thousand years. And chiliasm means that.

Now there came in later on the teaching that the thousand years would be established by the church. The church would produce a perfect world and then Jesus would come and find everything in apple-pie order. But that's just not the way this section presents it. He's coming in judgment, and if everything was in apple-pie order, then there would be no need to put down rebellion and judge and make war; he'd certainly be an intruder if he did that, if everything was good.

But somebody says, "You don't mean to tell me there was a time when man actually believed that the church was going to build the Kingdom down here on this earth?" Yes, my friend, it hasn't been too long ago, to tell the truth. But back in 1883, a commentator, Justin A. Smith—and I have his commentary—he made this statement: "But upon the other hand, what a tremendous force is the Christianity of today, when all is said. Is it conceivable that this auspicious power which is so rapidly taking possession of the wide earth can dwindle into that imbecility which some millenarians appear to predict for it?"

Back in 1883, this was said. And those of us that are premillennialists today, we would be called a bunch of pessimists that we're predicting that the world is going to get worse; there's going to be apostasy in the church. Why, they didn't believe that. Listen to what he said: "It has been said that in 25 years more, if the present rate of progress continues, India will become as thoroughly Christian as Great Britain is today." But look at Great Britain today; it's as bad off as India is.

"Now, there will be 30 millions of Christians in China, and Japan will be as fully Christianized as America is now. The old systems, they tell us, are honeycombed through and through by Christian influence. It looks as if a day may soon come when these systems, struck by vigorous blows, will fall in tremendous collapse. Meantime, every weapon formed against Christianity breaks in the hand that holds it. Already the Lord's right hand hath gotten him victory." They talked brave in those days. They don't talk that way today.

And Naville, in his book *The Problem of Evil*, made this statement: "The civilization of Europe—or to call it by its true name which it derives from its origin, the Christian civilization—is visibly making the conquest of the world. Its triumph is only a matter of time; no one doubts it." Well, brother, there are quite a few that doubt it today. In fact, the so-called European civilization or Christian civilization is going down the drink and has largely disappeared already.

Now these folk, they belittle this 20th chapter of Revelation. And even a man as great as Dr. Warfield—and you must understand, I was brought up under his system and I respect him a great deal. I consider him the greatest scholar probably that this generation has produced, that is, this century I should probably say. And he says that there's no reference to such an age as a millennium here on this earth, save in—these are his words—"so obscure a portion as Revelation 20."

May I say to you, he pays no attention to all of the Old Testament where God made a covenant that He would establish this Kingdom on the earth and it would be one in David's line. He totally ignored that. And a man like Dr. Ross, years ago, said, "Our key does not open. The right key is lost, and until we are put in possession of it again, our exposition will never succeed. The system of biblical ideas is not that of our school at all."

I was educated in the South, and another honored theologian of the South of the past, Dr. R. L. Dabney, said, in speaking with a student who had got a hold of a premillennial book, he was so enthusiastic about it that he talked to Dr. Dabney and told him about it. And Dr. Dabney, the great scholar that he was, said, "Probably you are right. I never looked into the subject." Very frankly admitted—he was honest—admitting he had just never studied prophecy.

And the late Dr. Charles Hodge, who wrote a ponderous tome, in fact two of them, on theology—and that's the theology I studied in school—but he very frankly said that eschatology just wasn't his bag, only he didn't use that expression. He used a different one. Let me read and quote from him: "The subject cannot be adequately discussed without taking a survey of all the prophetic teaching of the Scriptures, both of the Old Testament and the New. This task cannot be satisfactorily accomplished by anyone who has not made the study of the prophecies a specialty."

The author—now this is Dr. Hodge—"knowing that he has no such qualifications for the work, proposes to confine himself in a great measure to a historical survey of the different schemes of interpreting the scriptural prophecies relating to the subject." Now today, all of that has changed. There's a lively interest today in prophecy, but I wish there were more that were as honest as Dr. Hodge was and say, "Well, I haven't really studied this subject as I should have."

Unfortunately, a great many men are speaking on the subject of prophecy that have not actually studied this subject. This is a very important subject and a vital subject. And may I say to you, I don't claim to have any special qualification at all for it. I have studied it for 40 years, and I have given a great deal of attention to it. I was asked one time when I was pastor in downtown Los Angeles why I spoke so much on prophecy. Well, I said everybody else is ignoring it. That was several years ago now, and I'm trying to make up for all of them.

I'm trying to put a great emphasis on it because I have always considered it important. But I think it's dangerous today that many are edging up to this matter of setting dates for the rapture of the church. And I don't think you can do that. I think that that is absolutely a dateless time. It may be tomorrow, but it may not be tomorrow. And "it may not" is just about as certain as "it may." So we need to recognize that we're in a period where we're not given dates, but we are seeing the setting of a stage.

I do not know what God has in mind for the future, but I do know that He sure has things in position. And I can say again with Dr. Bill Anderson, I sure wish the Lord now that He's got things in position would come on, because I'd hate for Him to have to go to all the trouble to get it back in position again. Well, I don't know that He will. Now I'm going to read this section because, very frankly, this matter of—as it was in the early church, chiliasm is millenarianism today.

And you're either pre-, post-, or amillennial as we have said. This is actually the great dividing line today among Bible expositors; there's no question about that. But it ought not to make us ugly with each other and call each other names and that sort of thing. If you disagree with me and accept one of these other positions, you're in good company. Some of the finest men I've known hold a different viewpoint than I do. But now, of course, if you want to be right, you'd want to go along with me, I'm sure.

Well, I'm going to read now, beginning at verse 4: "And I saw thrones and they sat upon them and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus." Now for just a moment, let's look at this. This prophecy is like any other prophecy in Scripture. As Peter put it in 2 Peter 1:20: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

That is, you can't just lift out a verse of Scripture and base a doctrine on that. You need to have the corroboration of other Scripture. And when this passage here is treated as a dignified statement of literal fact, it becomes reasonable and it fits into the entire program of prophecy that we've been following. Now any attempt to reduce it to the lowest common denominator of fanciful and figurative symbols makes the passage an absurdity. Of course it does.

To spiritualize this passage is to disembowel all Scripture of vital meaning, making the interpretation of Scripture a *reductio ad absurdum*. Now the thrones are literal. The martyrs here are literal. Jesus is literal, and the Word of God is literal. And the beast is literal, and the image here is literal. And the mark of the beast is literal, and their foreheads and their hands are literal. And the thousand years are literal. It's all literal. And the thousand years means a thousand years.

If God meant that it was eternal, I think He would have said so. If He meant it was 500 years, He would have said so. Can't God say what He means? Of course He can. And when He says a thousand years, He means a thousand years. Now the word for resurrection here is interesting. It's the same word Paul used in 1 Corinthians 15 for the resurrection of Christ and believers: *anastasis*. And it means a bodily resurrection.

Now He says here, "I saw thrones and they sat on them." Now "they" here causes some question; I grant that. Who's "they"? Well, I come to the conclusion—and it's just my judgment now here—"they" must be the total number of those who have been part in the first resurrection. And that includes the church; it began with Christ. Well, let me go over this again. The first resurrection began with the resurrection of Christ. Then it's followed by the resurrection of His church, and that's 1,900 years later, 1,900 plus.

I don't know how much more. But before the Great Tribulation, as we've seen in Revelation 4. Now at the end of the Great Tribulation is the resurrection of both the Tribulation saints—the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, for the Word of God, and whoever worshipped the beast and so on—and the Old Testament saints, as we saw in Daniel 12:1. God is following a program. This is not some little naive notion.

This is a program that God is following and that He's given in His Word. Now the Tribulation saints and the Old Testament saints will evidently reign on this earth with Christ, and I think David will be his vicegerent. Now the church, which is the bride of Christ, will reside in the New Jerusalem, where she reigns with Him from that exalted place. And I think over a great deal of God's creation; we'll see that in the next chapter.

Christ will commute back and forth from the New Jerusalem to the Old Jerusalem on this earth. In fact, there must be a great deal of traffic as the church travels back and forth between its heavenly home and the earth. Multitudes of both Israel and the Gentiles, they will enter the Kingdom in natural bodies, not having died. And these are the ones, together with those that are born during the Millennium—Isaiah 11:6, 65:20.

Now this will be the time of the earth's greatest population explosion. Disease will be eliminated, the curse of sin removed from the physical earth, and it will produce enough foodstuff to feed its greatest population. And the human heart alone remains unchanged under these circumstances, and many will still turn their back on God and will go after Satan. It seems unbelievable, you say. Well, what about today? Satan's doing pretty well in our day. Well, I'll have to leave off there until next time. May God richly bless you, my beloved.

Steve Schwetz: Well, Satan may be doing pretty well, but by faith, we know that very soon he and all evil will be put away forever. We'll learn about that in the coming days of our study. If we can suggest a resource to help you go deeper in your study of Revelation, then call us at 1-800-65-BIBLE. That's 1-800-652-4253. Or email us at biblebus@ttb.org.

Now in our next study, we learn about the wonderful days of the Millennium that'll strangely enough end in a great rebellion headed by Satan himself. Join us for all the details. And don't miss a single study as we continue this journey through Revelation. To go back and listen to what you've missed, or maybe to invite a friend to join you, download our app or visit us at ttb.org. I'm Steve Schwetz, and as always, I'll be here saving you a seat as together we go through the Bible.