Thru the Bible

Steve Shwetz: Welcome to Thru the Bible with Dr. J. Vernon McGee. We find ourselves in a dramatic and violent section of scripture from the Old Testament book of Zechariah. In this latest vision, Zechariah sees a time of global conflict unlike anything the world has ever known, a war still to come. Dr. McGee explains that this isn't symbolic; it's a glimpse into the really terrifying reality of the end times when the whole earth will be engulfed in violent conflict.

As the red horseman rides through the earth in chapter 6, Dr. McGee says all hell will break loose. This is the Great Tribulation, a time of judgment and devastation. So let's open God's Word together with hearts full of reverence for the Lord, who will one day say enough to evil. But let's begin with some good news for a change. Gregg and I have some great things to share about our ministry, this time in Thailand and connecting to Burma.

Gregg Harris: That's right. So we're talking about the Karen language, which is spelled K-A-R-E-N, but it's pronounced Karen. As you said, it is in the western side of Thailand and then the border with Myanmar or Burma, depending on how you want to call that country. I was there and I asked them and they're like, "You can call it either; it's okay." But powerful impact is taking place, and we have some great letters to share.

Steve Shwetz: This first one is from a listener named Wamone who shares this: "I live in a village of about 1,500 people. I have a family with two children, one daughter and one son. Our livelihood depends on farming and working in the fields. I've lived in this village since I was a child and eventually built my own family here. Sometimes life brings pressure and challenges that make it difficult for me to trust others easily.

I have been living with stress and uncertainty, but ever since I started listening to this program, things have started to change. Listening to God's word has strengthened me. I do read the Bible, but often I don't understand it fully or forget what I've read. It's hard for me to grasp the deeper meaning. However, since I began listening to these biblical teachings, I have come to understand the word of God more deeply. The messages have been very helpful and meaningful to me. Thank you for this program. My family and others in the village are very excited and truly grateful."

Gregg Harris: This is so powerful and we're using a medium we don't use much of anymore, and that's shortwave radio. But you can tell this is a remote place. We often say we're media agnostic; we just want to use the medium that is the most cost-effective to deliver, and clearly it's happening.

Now here's another great testimony from a woman named Suporn: "I have eight siblings and I am the eldest. I am married and I have one son. I work as a homemaker taking care of my family. I carry many responsibilities, not only for my own family but also for my younger siblings. Sometimes it becomes overwhelming and exhausting.

Even though I may get tired from all the responsibilities, I continue to trust in God, pray, and read the Bible regularly. That's how I came across your program. I clicked on it out of curiosity because I saw that it included Bible verses, but when I listened to it, I felt as though a heavy burden was lifted from my heart. It reminded me that God is always with us. No matter how sinful we are, God gave His Son for us. I came to understand how deeply God loves me, His daughter. I saw His greatness, how patient He is, how slow to anger, and how He doesn't punish us immediately when we turn away from our sins, whether they are small or great. He loves us so much and has never abandoned us, not even once."

Steve Shwetz: Such an encouragement and a wonderful perspective. They can have it in that part of the world, and I think that's a great perspective that we can have on living the Christian life and the whole theology of who God is and who Christ is to us. Here's another listener who tells us this:

"My name is Mr. Phonoo. I have a family with 10 children, five sons and five daughters. It's interesting how several of these testimonies mention people either coming out of or being part of very large families. We make a living by farming and working in the fields. Over the years, I've faced many challenges. Sometimes I feel discouraged, disappointed, and drained of strength, but I thank God for His daily provision and care. Listening to your program has truly renewed my strength. Even when I feel weary, the teaching gives me encouragement and helps me press on. The days are long and my body gets tired, but when I come home and listen, it gives me hope and motivation." Again, there's just so much that we can be thankful for. Gregg, why don't you pray for us as we begin?

Gregg Harris: Father, Your word is reaching people in remote places and we rejoice over that. I pray You'd allow us to continue to fling the seed in Jesus' name. Amen.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Friends, we come today to this sixth chapter of Zechariah. Before we do, I don't want to let go the last chapter without clarifying something there. I'm of the opinion that there are some that have come to the conclusion that I'm a male chauvinist, that I've been rather harsh upon the female of the species in several of our recent broadcasts. I haven't really meant to be that way, but we saw last time this woman in a bushel basket flying through the air. She's the first astronaut, and the first astronaut therefore was a woman.

She's in this bushel basket, and it's being carried by two women with wings of a stork. A stork was an unclean bird; that in itself is rather suggestive. They are taking it down to Shinar, the land of Shinar, to Babylon. These two women are not the flying nuns either. They represent, in fact the three women here represent an evil principle. We have said that it represents, because the bushel basket and that weight of lead that was there speak of big business. It speaks of commercialism. It speaks of that which is godless.

We said last time that this represented what Israel had learned from the Gentiles in Babylon. They were a pastoral, agricultural people, and they are that when they return to that land today even. But when they leave that land, they go into business. They run a store and they get involved in that. This is a picture of God's judgment upon His people. This woman in this bushel basket symbolizes that which is out of place religiously and spiritually.

That's true all the way through the Word of God. In Matthew 13:33, you have the woman that took leaven and hid it in three measures of meal. Then you have the message the Lord Jesus gave to the church in Thyatira, that He wanted that woman Jezebel put out because she was permitted to teach. She was out of place. Then in Revelation 17, you have that harlot riding the beast. That harlot does not represent the church, the church of the Lord Jesus Christ which is His body, but it represents that organized religion that'll be left here on the earth after the church, the true church, is removed. I think it will go by the name of a church.

That picture is the most frightful one that we have in the Word of God. What we have here is a picture that represents a system. That system involves commercialism that's godless, big business that worships the almighty dollar instead of the Almighty God. The almighty dollar's not so almighty today; that's been reduced down to a two-bit piece. It's a little fellow today, and in this day of inflation, the almighty dollar is not a very big god to worship. Yet man still worships it.

All of this represents that godless system. It originated outside of the Garden of Eden. It is a godless thing. It's not racial in any way whatsoever; it's not confined to one race; it's absolutely true of all races. I want to give you the description of it that Dr. Unger gives in his book on Zechariah. He says, "The system comprises the whole mass of unregenerate mankind, alienated from God, hostile to Christ, and organized as a system or federation under Satan."

In more than thirty important New Testament passages, a full revelation of the satanic world system is presented. Satan is revealed as its directing head. You'll find that in several passages of Scripture, like John 12:31 and Revelation 2:13. Then the system is revealed to be wholly evil as God evaluates it. God calls it absolutely, totally an evil thing. I think probably that I ought to pass on to you just one scripture, and there are several on this. Galatians 1:4 says, "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God our Father." This present evil world, this world system that is wholly evil.

Another passage is Colossians 1:13, and it's shown to be limited and temporary because God intends to judge it. It's doomed to destruction at Christ's second advent. It's characterized by pride, by greed, and by war. I'd like to add another word there, and that's covetousness. It is perpetually perilous to the child of God. God intends to remove that because He'll remove the people that have not returned to Him. Though the nation has in a corporate way, yet there are many individuals that haven't.

God intends to take it to Babylon and remove it there. Why? Because you have in Revelation 17 the judgment of religious Babylon. You have that harlot vision that John was given. To my judgment, it is the most frightful vision that we have in the entire Word of God; there's nothing quite as horrible as that. Then in the 18th of Revelation, we have God's judgment of commercial Babylon, big business if you please. This is something that has come under the judgment of Almighty God.

I trust that you won't blame me for adopting this interpretation because this is something that runs through the Word of God. So we have here this woman representing actually big business, covetousness, idolatry, and all that is to be removed from God's people because those that are given to it are to be removed themselves and they are to be judged. What a picture that we have here. This is the judgment of God's chosen people.

Now we come today to chapter 6. When we come to chapter 6, we've come now actually to the last of the visions, and we've identified them as ten visions. I think probably at this point I ought to give each one of them by name again as we have listed them. We had first the riders under the myrtle trees, then four horns, then the four smiths, then the man with the measuring line, then Joshua and Satan, then the branch and the stone with seven eyes, then the lampstand and two olive trees, then the flying roll or a scroll, then the woman in the ephah, and now we come to the tenth, the four chariots here in chapter 6.

Some only find eight visions here, but we believe that it's highly consistent to see that we do have ten visions that are given to us. This last vision is of four chariots. I think probably we ought to get it before us here today. I'm reading now verse one of chapter 6: "And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass."

For just a moment or two, let's look at this again. This has run all the way through, and I'm sure by now it's a little monotonous to you, but he says, "I turned and lifted up mine eyes." These visions are not dreams. They were given to him at night, but he was not asleep when they were given to him. His eyes were wide open. He saw these things, and a double emphasis is given time and time again. We have it here: "I lifted up mine eyes." That's enough to let you know that he saw it, but he says, "and I looked."

When you look, friends, you've got to use your eyes. "And behold, there came four chariots out from between the two mountains, and the mountains were mountains of brass." Let me attempt to identify these two mountains. What are the two mountains? I have looked at several of the commentators in this particular place here, and their interpretation—and I think most of them agree on it, or at least the majority of the outstanding ones—they believe it's Mount Zion and the Mount of Olives. That would put you down in the Kidron Valley.

So we have here these four chariots, and they are down in the valley. We assume when we see the four chariots that there are horses that are hitched to them, and we're going to find out that there were. There were charioteers or drivers of the chariots, and we'll find that that is true also. Since there are four chariots here, it seems that it is a reminder of the fact that we have before us here the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

There's another way of interpreting this, of course. There were four great world empires that Daniel saw, and these four empires were judged of God. They were all Gentile empires, and each one of them has been judged of God. That part of Daniel's vision has actually been literally fulfilled. These four chariots could represent that very easily. But John in Revelation, speaking of that which is future—in fact, he opens that period of the Great Tribulation period by presenting to us the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

There is a very striking correspondence between these four chariots and the horses and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. Very frankly, I'm inclined to go along with the viewpoint that, though it could represent these four nations, I am not going to fall out with anyone that sees it like that. But actually, what we have here is the Great Tribulation period. It looks down to the future when God intends to judge the Gentiles.

Whether it means these four nations or the great judgment at the end during the Great Tribulation period, I think that both are involved here. But the important thing is, we saw in the last chapter, chapter 5, in both the flying scroll and the woman in the ephah flying through the air like an astronaut, that that was judgment upon God's earthly people, the nation Israel. Now this reveals God's judgment of the Gentiles, not only a past judgment as we have in the four nations but a future judgment that is coming during the Great Tribulation period, four judgments that will finally bring to the earth the Lord Jesus Christ and the establishment of His kingdom here upon the earth.

That's very important for us to see. Again, let me read this verse with that in mind: "And I turned and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold, there came four chariots out from between the two mountains, and the mountains were mountains of brass." Bronze or brass was known in the earth at a very early period. Bronze goes back almost to the beginning of civilization. It's one of the metals that you find that it was used in the Tabernacle.

It was used in two of the articles of furniture that were used in the judgment of sin: one was the brazen altar and the other was the laver of brass. Both of them stood in the outer court and had to do with the judgment of sin and sins in the lives of these people. So here, I would assume that since these mountains are called now "the two mountains" and they are of bronze, what he's saying is that we're speaking of judgment, that judgment is going forth from God.

The four judgments now are mentioned. Will you notice we have before us here in verse two: "In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; and in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot," we have here the New Scofield Reference Bible has "dappled and bay horses." The old translation had "grisled." Well, I like the word "dappled" better, although I don't know what it means. I'm not a horseman, but we'll talk about that next time. Until then, may God richly bless you, my beloved.