Thru the Bible

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Welcome to Thru the Bible with Dr. J. Vernon McGee. I'm Steve Schwetz and I'm so glad that you're here as the Bible bus is traveling through Zechariah's vision of the flying scroll. You won't want to miss that.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Now, what does this scroll have to do with us today? Well, stay with us for this fascinating study in the Old Testament book of Zechariah chapter 5. Now, if you're just joining us, don't worry, Dr. McGee catches us up in the first few minutes of our study with a brief summary of what we've learned so far. But you can always go back and listen for yourself on our app or at Ttb.org.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: But first, my friend, and Thru the Bible's President Greg Harris is here so that we can fill you in on a ministry trip that I got to take a part in this time to Paraguay.

Greg Harris: Yeah, I love it when you go to a country I've never been to and Oh, yeah, this is another one. Another one. The number you're definitely winning. I'll show you around next time you're there. Thank you. I appreciate that. But in all seriousness, what thrills my soul is that years ago it was just you and me going out and visiting. Now we have a half dozen or more people out there in the field and it isn't it isn't just travel for its own sake.

Greg Harris: It's to have a deeper understanding and also for us to check out the stewardship of of what's going on.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Yeah, I come away from every trip almost without exception more encouraged than when I went because of the commitment of the ministry partner in that country. Not yeah, they love Thru the Bible. But to God's word and to seeing their people reached with God's word and to get them plugged into churches. That that virtuous cycle happening in all these different countries is such an encouragement.

Greg Harris: It is and but it is important if if you pray for this ministry, if you support us financially, we we take that stewardship very seriously. And so the travel isn't just it it yes, it's fun. It's also very hard physically and and leaving our families and all of that. But it it's primarily to make sure we're being good stewards of of the funds that you entrust to us.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Yeah. And we also like to go whenever our production is finished getting the five years in the can, so to speak is such a significant event for the ministry partner that we try to go to as many of those as we can. There's typically a celebration, a gathering of everybody that was involved in in that. And that was the case with the Paraguay language of Guarani.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: And again, you would think Guarani, Paraguay, Paraguay, aren't they already speaking Spanish? Why are you doing Guarani? And the fact is well, I'm glad you asked, Greg. 90% of the people speak Guarani in addition to Spanish. And yeah, they all understand Spanish, but for many of them, Guarani is their heart language. And we've talked about this before how effective it is to get Bible teaching in somebody's mother tongue.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: If you're like me and you're monolingual, you probably don't appreciate that. But if you speak more than one language, your first language is your mother tongue and that's the one that has a special place in your heart.

Greg Harris: Yes. Now, in addition to us being able to hear from you because you were there, we also have a newsletter article by James Rosa, one of our other team members who you traveled with. And and one of the things we love to do is to point you to our newsletter. And I I just want to say because I know people are skeptical, we do not do anything that you would call fundraising.

Greg Harris: So if you sign up for our newsletter, you will never get a letter from me saying, please give, please give. We don't do that. So we when we push or unabashely say we want you to get that newsletter, it's we really believe that the content is going to bless you. It's got study helps from Dr. McGee. It's got an article from Dr. McGee and it usually has a focus on a trip.

Greg Harris: And so James wrote an excellent article and and Steve, I'd like you to kind of fill in the the gaps here. We don't have a lot of time, but he really focuses on the producer, the speaker.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Yeah, Pastor Carlos. He he was a pastor. That's not always the case, but in this case with the with the speaker, he was he was a pastor and he had and this this happens not all the time, but often times there are struggles that these guys go through in the in the production process. For him, two strokes over the course of five years. So it was a start and stop and he was so glad that God was faithful to get him through that.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: He was really praising the Lord in that celebration ceremony that we went to and even it it struck his own family. His his grown daughter had leukemia and subsequent to our visit, in fact, in in July of this summer, she went home to be with the Lord. She she died as a result of the of the cancer. So you could be praying for Pastor Carlos and in addition to praying and continuing to pray for the team that is now trying to get the program out through apps and through radio stations.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: This part of South America is primarily a broadcast distribution model that still makes sense because of the remoteness. So pray for that and pray that there would be much fruit that comes from it. A solid team there. They need our prayers as well. So Greg, why don't you pray for us as we begin?

Greg Harris: Father, we we do ask you to bless that team in Paraguay, uh, particularly the ones working with the Guaraní language, and we pray that you help them through the challenges and and seizing the opportunities and being great servants of yours in Jesus name. Amen.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Buckle up as we journey to Zechariah 5 on Thru the Bible with Dr. J. Vernon McGee. Now, we come here today to the fifth chapter and as we've indicated, we have come to probably the most symbolic and certainly it's highly visionary these next two visions that we have before us.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: We have first of all here in the fifth chapter the vision of the flying roll or scroll, however you care to describe it. Now, there takes place here a rather sharp division in these visions, that is in the meaning of them. You see up to this point, why he has made it very clear that God intends to put down the enemies.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: We had that in the first two chapters. God would put down all the enemies of this nation and they would become the thing that God intended them originally to become a nation of priests. You'll recall that when God brought them out of Egypt, that was His desire, that the entire nation become a nation of priests. But because of their sin, only one tribe was chosen.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Then we saw that they would have to first be cleansed. And we had that in the vision of Joshua and Satan and the nation was to be cleansed and then there was the vision of the branch and the rock with seven eyes in it, the stone. Now all of this looked forward to the kingdom age when God again would turn and use them, having cleansed them, they become then a light to the world.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: And we saw the lamp stand and the two olive trees and the oil represents the Holy Spirit and they're to witness in the power of the Holy Spirit. Now, all that is good and well enough. But does that mean that every member of that nation because he's an Israelite will be chosen? Even those that are living and continue in rebellion and sin?

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Well, no, God doesn't choose all of them. And so we have now in this vision and in the next one, the judgment of God that will come upon those that do not become obedient unto God and that He will judge them and ferret out those that are rebellious among them. Now, by the same token, God will do that in the world, because actually these visions have in mind the local nation.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: But they also have in mind a world view. That is here a global gospel. It looks forward to the establishment of God's kingdom here upon the earth. And this, of course, makes very clear the thing that God had said through Paul about the nation Israel. He says not all Israel is Israel. Not in every member. It is the national unity, the corporate body that will be accepted.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: But any individual in that will have to measure up and have to be obedient to God and come God's way to be cleansed as we've seen here and to accept and receive the Messiah. They would have to do that each individual would. And you can say the same thing today of the church. Not every church member is a Christian, is really in the body of believers. This call the church.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: And there will come a day of the ferreting out. Division is to be made. Now, the division of the church is at the rapture. And the division for Israel and the nations on the earth will be at the second coming of Christ. When He gathers his elect into the kingdom and then there will be a judgment and Satan is to be bound for a thousand years.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: And all of that is in the picture that's given to us here and that is for the encouragement of these people here because it had a very definite application for them as it does today. Now, with that thought in mind, let me begin reading here in chapter five at verse one. He says, then I turned and lifted up mine eyes and looked and behold a flying scroll.

Dr. Vernon McGee: And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying scroll. Its length is 20 cubits and its breadth 10 cubits. Then said he unto me, This is the curse. And I hasten to say that the word curse here means judgment. This is the judgment that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth. For everyone that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side, according to it, and everyone that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side, according to it.

Dr. Vernon McGee: I will bring it forth, saith the Lord of hosts, it shall enter into the house of the thief and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name, and it shall remain in the midst of the house and shall consume it with its timber and its stones. Now, this is the vision of the flying scroll or roll. And this first thing we probably should establish here is that this roll or scroll represents the Word of God.

Dr. Vernon McGee: It speaks of the Word of God. And we get that from Ezekiel, if you went over to the little prophecy of Ezekiel to the second chapter at verse nine, he says, and I looked and behold a hand was sent unto me and lo a roll of a book was there in, and he spread it before me. It was written within and without, and there was written there in lamentation, morning, and woe.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Moreover, he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest, eat this roll and go speak unto the house of Israel. So I opened my mouth, he caused me to eat that roll, and he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness. And he said unto me, Son of man, go get thee to the house of Israel and speak with my words unto them.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Now, he was to digest the Word of God and then he was to give it out. And believe me, that is a tremendous picture for preachers. We ought to eat the Word of God. We ought to digest the Word of God and it ought to be in our mouths as sweet as honey. It might be bitter in our tummy, but it should be in our mouth sweet as honey.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Something that we delight in giving out. Now, that is the thing that Ezekiel was told to do. And here we have this flying scroll. Now, the very interesting thing is, and I probably ought to emphasize this, he says here, then I turned and lifted up mine eyes. And I must call your attention to this again. This man got none of these visions with his eyes closed and asleep.

Dr. Vernon McGee: He was wide awake, his eyes were open, and he saw these with his eyes. This is not a dream that this man is having by any means. He says I raised my eyes once more. And I saw, and you if you'll notice what he says, actually the literal is, I saw and I looked. Well, I tell you when you see and you look, you're going to see something that's out yonder ahead of you.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Now, what he sees is the thing that is important. It's a flying scroll. Now, it denotes, as we've said, the word of God and I think that that can be very well attested to and you hear today, well as a great difference of opinion in many interpretations. But the solid interpretation that's come down through the centuries has been that this is the word of God in general and that actually it is the ten commandments in particular.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Now, this is the thing that I'm very anxious to call your attention to, as it I think is very meaningful for us today. And it's this. He said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying scroll. Its length is 20 cubits and its breadth is 10 cubits. Well, now, that means it's a pretty good size. In fact, it's a little larger than the scroll in that day.

Dr. Vernon McGee: A papyrus scroll, or it could be one that was made of skin. Some of them were made of skins. And you take one that's 30 feet long and 10 inches wide. On that, why you could write the book of Genesis or the whole of Isaiah could be put on that type of a scroll. And you see the way that it was done was it's on two rollers.

Dr. Vernon McGee: And you roll the scroll off of one onto the other. And as you roll, why you read. And the reading is actually not lengthwise, but it's up and down the way you'd hold the scroll. And as you would turn, you'd read, come to another page. Actually, you just roll the scroll over. But here is one that is really quite a big one because we're told here its length is 20 cubits.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Now, a cubit, as we've indicated before, it was ordinarily from the end of your middle finger to your elbow. And that runs about 18 inches. Of course, it's the size of the individual. One fellow could be a pretty tall fellow and have a big long arm and you'd get a little bit more than 18 inches. And you'd have a short fellow, you'd get less than 18 inches.

Dr. Vernon McGee: And I have a notion that the buyer for a dry goods store in that day would be the tall guy and the short fellow would be the one that would be the salesman to sell it afterward. But generally it was 18 inches. So when you have 20 cubits here, that means it's about 30 feet long and it's about 15 feet wide. Now, that's much larger than a bed sheet and even a king size bed.

Dr. Vernon McGee: And it would be larger than a wagon sheet. It would be a pretty good size scroll that you have and the only way you could see it would be for it to be spread out. And since he identifies it as a flying scroll, why here is this great flying scroll. And I imagine that it moved over the earth. I'm sure that's the thought that he had in mind here.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Verse three, then said he unto me, This is the curse, or the judgment that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth. For everyone that stealeth shall be cut off as on one side, according to it, and everyone that sweareth shall be cut off on the other side. Now, apparently, this scroll had on it the Ten Commandments. And the Ten Commandments were divided into the two parts.

Dr. Vernon McGee: One part is man's relationship to God. That's the first four commandments. And then the last six commandments have to do with man's relationship to man. Now you have that here. The one that stealeth. Now, that commandment has to do with a man's relationship to another man. And that I think is clearly identified, if you turn over to the 50th Psalm and verse 18.

Dr. Vernon McGee: And let me read several verses there and I think you'll see the point. He says, when thou sawest a thief, then thou contendedst with him. Thou shalt not steal. Here we have the same thing again, you see. And when thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers. You see now it goes along the seventh commandment with it.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Thou givest thy mouth to evil and thy tongue frameth deceit. That is, you lie. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother, thou slanderest thine own mother's son. These things hast thou done and I kept silence. Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such a one as thyself, but I will reprove thee and set them in order before thine eyes.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Now because men in that day were able to break the law and get by with it, they could break the Ten Commandments. God did nothing. They came to the conclusion, well, he's just like we are. He's not going to do anything about it. Well, God says that he is. Now, I want you to notice this because I think there's put down here a great principle concerning the law and especially the Ten Commandments.

Dr. Vernon McGee: Now they were given to the nation Israel. They were given to the nation Israel as they stood in the crossroads of the world. They had a tremendous influence on Egypt. They became a nation down there. Egypt, a great world empire. They went into Babylonian captivity. They had a great influence upon that first great world kingdom. That first great world empire.

Dr. Vernon McGee: And they had an influence upon Assyria. They had an influence upon the Greco-Macedonian Empire and also upon the Roman. So that the Ten Commandments were never given to the Christian as a way of life. We've been called to a much higher plane and we attain that plane by grace because actually man can't even attain the plane of the law unaided.

Dr. Vernon McGee: And God gave them the law and gave them no aid to it. There was no such thing as filling of the spirit, walking in the spirit among the people of that day. So that actually, man in his own strength and ability couldn't even measure up to the Ten Commandments. Now God today has put us under grace. And He has furnished us in given to us the Holy Spirit, whereby that we now can have the fruit of the Spirit in our life, which is love, joy, peace, and long suffering.

Dr. Vernon McGee: And those things were never in the law. Now, what then is the relationship of law today to the Christian? Well, he certainly is not to break it. The law was given to a nation and it was to become the law of that nation and they were to obey the law. Well, they disobeyed it, of course, and God put them out of the land.

Dr. Vernon McGee: But they scattered this and today the mark.