Thru the Bible

Steve Schwetz: Where is the Holy Spirit during the Great Tribulation? That's the important question that our teacher, Dr. J. Vernon McGee, answers in this study as together we go through the Bible. I'm Steve Schwetz, your host, welcoming you aboard the Bible Bus for another message in the last book of the Bible, Revelation.

While much of Revelation is somber, in just a few minutes we're going to hear some good news about things that will happen during the most difficult period that our world will face. So go ahead and grab your Bible and turn to Revelation chapter seven. While you do, Greg Harris is here for an important conversation about the international trips that our global team takes and that you hear us talk about here on the program.

Greg Harris: That's right. Steve, I think it's important for us—we love to tell all of our listening family why we do what we do because we put a lot of thought into this ministry. We care very much. You give us your prayers, you give us financial support, you share the ministry. We want to be good stewards of that.

Steve Schwetz: And I'm excited about this segment because I often get people at my church asking me that question. Now, what exactly do you do when you go?

Greg Harris: Yes, and why do you go? We want to say that this is a newsletter article that I wrote, and we hope you'll be interested in getting our newsletter because it has many other great resources: Dr. McGee's teaching, lots of prayer requests, listener and viewer responses from around the world.

But this article, we're just going to touch on some of the reasons why we travel. Right now, Steve, we have a good-sized team of people traveling the world.

Steve Schwetz: It's exciting to see, and we always come back with new insights and new blessings as a result of being out there. It's always an encouragement. And full disclosure, it's not always everything is perfect. That's where we find challenges is by actually going and sitting face-to-face and just observing what's going on. Sometimes we do need to make some difficult changes.

Greg Harris: Yes. And actually, I just got back a few days ago from India, and hopefully we'll get a chance to talk about that trip later this month. But let's just start with one of the big reasons we go, and that's to minister to and encourage our partners.

Steve Schwetz: One of the most significant things that we do is at the end of an initial cycle of a five-year program, you have translation and production that's happened. It is a big deal to get through the five-year program. As you've said, every program is a miracle, really, that it happens. So to go to recognize—oftentimes there's a celebration event, and it's special for us to be a part of that, and it's a great honor for us to be there, and the partner appreciates it as well.

Greg Harris: And this is something that we talk about, all of us that travel. We don't see ourselves as very special, but when we show up from the United States, from the world headquarters of Thru the Bible, and we are representing the ministry of Thru the Bible that is so highly respected, we are able to bless our partner by saying we really care about what you're doing. That may not sound very substantive, but ministry is ultimately about heart and about working for the Lord and giving it everything you've got. And as such, our leaders are hugely encouraged when we show up on the field.

Steve Schwetz: Another reason we go is because the communication, the ability for us to communicate the vision of Thru the Bible—it truly is a unique ministry, both in our approach and our long-term commitment. I think, again, we've been in some languages now—languages, not just on the air in English—but over 50 years. It just blows me away. So that's new for a lot of our partners to know that they're going to have that kind of a commitment standing behind them if the ministries continue to align and we continue to see fruit.

Greg Harris: One of the things we've seen in the last decade or so is that our vision used to be perceived as to broadcast radio all over the world. And you and I have been able to do this both together and separately, and you've gone with other team members. We're letting them know that we're media agnostic. We've literally had conversations where they've said things like, "Oh, we didn't know you were open to moving into digital ministry." And so you're right, communicating that vision is vitally important.

Steve Schwetz: And then the other thing is just to learn. Our partners are so creative in the way that they minister to their people, and we like to take those ideas and make sure that our other partners are implementing in the same way. My background is in franchising, and to me that just makes my heart sing because it's really the franchise model played out in ministry.

Greg Harris: Yes. And also, we learn what God is doing and where he's blessing. I often think of in 2015, when I had some early conversations with George Philip in India about the Radio Home Groups, and I wasn't entirely on board with it right away. And yet over the years, we have seen God moving. So that's another area that we learn.

Now, we have a lot of other reasons in this article. We hope you will subscribe to the newsletter. Just go to ttb.org. You can sign up—it literally will take you about 15 seconds—and we would love for you to be blessed by the content in our monthly newsletter.

Steve Schwetz: One of my—and finally, there's so many other reasons that we go—but one of my favorite reasons is to hear the stories and testimonies firsthand and to be able to record those and then to bring them back and share them with our listeners. Because that's the next best thing to being there is to hear the story of how God is moving in people's lives individually, and we get those stories when we go out there.

Greg Harris: And it's our privilege to share those with you. Maybe you are not able to go, but we really want to bring back that sense of there are real powerful things happening around the world.

Steve Schwetz: Amen. Greg, why don't you pray for us as we begin?

Greg Harris: Father, thank you for this amazing ministry that you have built that is touching millions of people's lives with the word of God. We just rejoice in the work you're doing. We pray now as we open our Bibles that our hearts would be open to be taught. In Jesus' name, amen.

Steve Schwetz: Let's turn to Revelation chapter seven as we go through the Bible with Dr. J. Vernon McGee.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: We've come now to the seventh chapter. This seventh chapter brings us to what I have given as the theme: God seals a remnant of Israel, and he saves a redeemed company of Gentiles during the Great Tribulation.

Keeping before us the thought that we're in a book that has been labeled a book difficult to understand and that is just a mumbo-jumbo of a great deal of visions that are actually out of this world, most of them, and that no one can understand it. We made the statement that this actually is the book that is more logical and is divided in a way that no one can miss it—in fact, in a very simple manner.

We've seen that the one thing, though, that is essential: this book happens to be the last book of the Bible. And so when you're studying in school, for instance, you begin with arithmetic: two plus two equals four. Well, you don't start the little ones off today in first grade with atomic physics, and you don't start them off with higher mathematics. Well, the book of Revelation is the last book of the Bible, and the only requirement is to have a working knowledge of 65 books that have gone before. When you do that, you'll find that this book makes a great deal of sense and is quite logical.

Now we're going to see that as we enter this chapter. We have been looking at the opening of the seven seals. The only thing is we've only had the opening of six seals so far. And we saw that the riding forth of those four horsemen of the Apocalypse is the opening, beginning of the Great Tribulation period.

And we've come to a period in which the church is never mentioned by name. And the reason it's never mentioned by name is because they're recording things on Earth, and at this particular time, the church is not on Earth. In chapters two and three, John was told to write the things you've seen. He saw the vision of the glorified Christ, and he was to write the things that are. He was in the church period. We're still in it today. And I hope that we're in it today because if the Rapture's taken place and you and I have been left, but I think the church is still in the world today.

And we're in the things that are. Now the church is to be taken out of the world. And when it is, it won't be mentioned. It was the theme of chapters two and three: the church in Ephesus, the church in Smyrna, the church in Pergamum, the church in Thyatira. But there's no talking to the church here because the church is not here on Earth. We saw it in chapters four and five; the church was in heaven. That's where the church had gone. And I'm going to deal later on why the church cannot go through the Great Tribulation period. There's actually a moral problem here, a theological problem, if the church even entered one phase of the Great Tribulation period.

So the subject is changed, and we're talking about other things, and we're introduced to seven seals—a book with seven seals, and the seals are being removed. Six have been. Now I think those four horsemen introduced the Great Tribulation period, and the seven seals give an overall picture of that seven-year period of the Great Tribulation period. And the last of the seals bear down on the last three and a half years of the Great Tribulation period. We'll see how that's divided later on.

But here you have brought before us up to this point the fact that one-fourth of the population of the earth was destroyed in judgment, actually destroyed in death. Now I'm sure that anyone reading Revelation senses the fact that it's going to be very difficult to make it through this period, and especially if you turn to God, if you accept Christ, and if you stand for him. The fact of the matter is, will you be able to stand during this period?

There are several questions that arise regarding this. Now John's going to put down here another principle by which he'll follow because he knows you and I are going to have trouble with Revelation, so he made it very simple for us. He introduces a series of sevens. We've already had that introduced at the beginning. Now he has a book with seven seals.

But the way that he deals with that is the important thing for us to see. Between the sixth and seventh seal, there is always introduced an interval where what would seem to be extraneous matter is brought in, but it is explanatory matter because it explains the action, it answers certain questions.

And that's what this chapter's going to do for us, chapter seven, because we have the principle now put down that between the sixth and seventh of anything—it'll be true of the trumpets, it'll be true of the seven bowls of wrath and the seven persons that are introduced—and you'll always find John following this great principle all the way through this particular section of Revelation, so that we don't lose our way.

Now I want to answer a question that would naturally arise. I'm sure that any reasonable person would raise this question at this time. Well, what about people getting saved? How about people turning to God during this period? Because somebody's going to say to me, "Now when we were back in Second Thessalonians, you made it clear from that particular section that the Holy Spirit, the restrainer, is removed from the earth. He has taken the church to present the church to Christ. And so you can't have any turning to God without the work of the Holy Spirit. So will anybody get saved, the Holy Spirit not being present?"

Well, friends, the Holy Spirit is present. Someone says, "But that's not what you said." Oh, I didn't say that the Holy Spirit left the world. I said that he no longer restrains. You see, the Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost to perform a specific ministry of calling out a body of believers in the church, and that is called the body of Christ. And when the church is removed, then that peculiar ministry ends.

And one of the ministries of this particular era was restraining. I think that it was absolutely essential that he be a restrainer because the gospel was going to penetrate a Satan-controlled and a Satan-blinded world. Unless the Spirit of God holds back evil that the word might go out, you see.

Just think of the forces of evil that today are working against the getting out of the word of God. I'm amazed—the first year or two when we moved out here, we just sailed along like a breeze in this broadcast. And then problems came along, and then I got sick, and all of these things. And finally, when we regained our equilibrium and began to look around, we said, "What's happening?" Well, the enemy was busy. And believe me, if the restrainer hadn't been at work, I'm sure that we would have been removed from the scene.

Now during the period of the Great Tribulation, how are people going to get saved then? Because he won't be restraining evil. The Great Tribulation is the devil's holiday. That's the day when he's going to have freedom to do as he pleases. And we're going to see why God's going to grant that. And it's a period of the judgment of God upon a Christ-rejecting world.

So does anybody then get saved in the Great Tribulation? My friend, the greatest company, I believe, in any given period of time—this is a seven-year period—I believe there'll be more saved in that period than in any other period in the history of the world. I think that's going to be the great time.

And someone says, "How will it take place?" Well, chapter seven's going to tell us how. The Holy Spirit is in the world. He was in the world before Pentecost. You find the Spirit of God working in the Old Testament in the hearts and lives of men and women, and many multitudes were brought to God. But he was not restraining evil in the world, and he was not baptizing believers into the body of the church in the Old Testament.

Now that's what he's doing today, and that ministry will cease. But he's in the business of getting men and women to Christ, and he'll have to have a special program, an unusual special program, during this period. What's that program going to be? Well, he's going to tell us now.

And I'm going to read at verse one. I hope you have the Authorized Version; actually, that's the only version I can honestly recommend today. I much prefer it with notes, however. But be that as it may, I do like to look at the other translations, and I've had the audacity to put in my book of Revelation my translation. Although it's not a translation, I've just attempted to bring literal words up and try to say what John was saying. And that's all, and I've even made no attempt to put it in a form that would be grammatically accurate in English; I wanted it to be grammatically accurate out of the Greek, and that's my only excuse for doing what I've done.

So will you listen now, and I'm going to read several verses here in order to get us into this chapter, but I won't be able to deal with all of them. Verse one: "After this..." After what? Well, what we've been talking about. After there was this tremendous judgment, after the four horsemen rode. "After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding firmly the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on the earth nor on the sea nor on any tree."

Verse two and three: "And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrising, having the seal of the living God, and he cried with a great voice to the four angels to whom it had been given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, 'Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we shall have sealed the servants (that is, the bond slaves) of our God in their foreheads.'"

"And I heard the number of those sealed: a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel." And I'm going to break off the reading there. That's the number from the nation Israel. But we'll see that out of the earth there was a number of Gentiles you couldn't even count them, there were so many of them that were saved. And I notice that all evangelists and all of us preachers today, we are able to give you the counting—in fact, we may give you a count that may be a little bit larger than it really is. But here's one that they couldn't count. And now I'll tell you, I'd like to know where the preacher or evangelist is who couldn't count them today. But apparently, in the Great Tribulation, there's going to be a great company that are to be saved.

Now how they're to be saved? They're going to be sealed. Sealed how? The Holy Spirit's going to be here not only to regenerate them, but he will have a special ministry of this period of sealing them. And what is a seal? Well, that guarantees they're going to be delivered. You see, you go down into a post office and you say, "I want to register this letter." They stamp it there, put a seal on it, and you pay a little extra for that. And they mean that the entire Post Office Department are going to get back of that letter and see that it's delivered. All of them are back of it. Now they may be a little late today getting it to you, but they guarantee they're going to get it to you.

Now that is what "seal" here means. They're sealed by the Holy Spirit, which guarantees they're going to make it through the Great Tribulation. And friend, if he wasn't there to seal them and make it through, they wouldn't make it through.

And if you really want to know the truth today, I feel like telling the truth, so I'll just say this: Vernon McGee wouldn't make it through today if it wasn't for the Holy Spirit. I wonder if you and I realize how weak we are. Why, you know I'd deny him before the sun went down on another day if it wasn't for his work in me by the Spirit of God. Why, you know we all have that nature that's in rebellion against God.

So these people are going to be sealed. That's what we have just heard. Now we have an interlude. Before the seventh seal is opened, here this angel is more than a sergeant; he's probably a lieutenant colonel or a general. He says, "Hold everything." He says, "Hold back the winds of judgment, the winds of the Great Tribulation, because we've got to seal these folks that are going to make it through."

And there'll be two great companies: out of the nation Israel and Gentiles. Somebody says, "Where's the church?" Well, I just told you at the beginning they're not here. They are with Christ. I think in the New Jerusalem, because he said he was going to prepare a place for those that were his. And now that he's taken them out, why, they're with him. And that city will come down from God out of heaven later on when we'll get a look at it. And I want to spend time with that because that's where I'm going to live throughout eternity, and I always like to know where I'm going to move to. And I don't know why there are so many saints today, they talk about going to heaven, and they don't seem to know very much about where they're going.

Well, may I say to you, the Bible really doesn't tell us much about it. But what it does say about it is very interesting and very important, and all that's in the book of Revelation. Now that's the reason this book is very important.

Now let me come back to the text that I have read. Verse one: "After this..." We've already said, after the riding of the four horsemen. And I believe there we are given, as it were, a bird's-eye view of the Great Tribulation period, an overall picture of it. And now the details are going to be given to us. "And after this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth." A smart-aleck boy got up in a meeting years ago where Dr. Ironside was speaking, and he says, "I told you the Bible was unscientific." He apparently had talked to Dr. Ironside before, and he says, "Why, the Bible teaches that the earth is flat because it says 'the four corners of the earth'." And Dr. Ironside said, "Young man, I'm amazed. Didn't you know that the earth has four corners?" And the young man says, "No, I didn't know the earth has four corners. What are they?" He said, "North, East, South, and West." That's the four corners of the earth, friend, you see. And that's the directions. The four angels, one in the North, East, South, and West.

And they were holding firmly the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on the earth nor the sea nor any tree. Now these would be the winds of judgment. God uses wind in judgment, and he controls it. In Psalm 148:8, it says, "fire and hail, snow and vapor, stormy wind fulfilling his word." And so now the winds of judgment are to be held. Nothing can move now until God accomplishes his purpose.

Now what's his purpose going to be? I do not think God would permit any period to go on on this earth that there weren't some turning to God because that's his purpose. I don't think he'd run this world. I think he'd shut it down, turn it off, speak it out of existence if there were not folk turning to him. And so this will be a period when multitudes will turn to him. Now we'll have to leave off right there. We've got our foot in the door, but this is a very important chapter, as you can see. All right, until next time, may God richly bless you, my beloved.

Steve Schwetz: In our next study, Dr. McGee continues to unravel the marvelous mystery of the book of Revelation. Until then, if we can help you find a resource to deepen your love of God's word, just visit us: ttb.org, or you can call us at 1-800-65-BIBLE. Now, one that I definitely suggest in terms of a resource is our Bible Companion for Revelation. In addition to prompts to listen to Dr. McGee's message and read the scripture for yourself, you'll also find some really great questions for reflection or better yet, for group study and discussion. It's my favorite way to study, and I think you'll love it too. So why don't you go to our app, that's a great way to get it, or visit ttb.org to download your free copy. Or if you want to purchase Dr. McGee's New Testament Bible Companions in softcover online, you can also call us at 1-800-65-BIBLE. That's ttb.org or 1-800-65-BIBLE. I'm Steve Schwetz, thanking God for you and your desire to walk in the light of his word. Keep going.

Our journey on the Bible Bus today is supported by the prayers and gifts of fellow passengers, as we travel through the Bible.