Thru the Bible

Guest (Male): How can you understand all those weird symbols in Revelation? There's a beast, a woman clothed with the sun and a red dragon. And how does it all make sense? Well, these are questions people frequently ask about the prophecy in the last book of the Bible.

Welcome to Thru the Bible. One of the advantages of studying the Bible the way we do, weaving back and forth between the Old and New Testaments, is seeing when one book refers to another. Such is the case as we open to Revelation 12 and read about some strange figures. What do they mean? Well, wonder no longer. Dr. McGee is going to help us to understand.

So climb aboard the Bible Bus and find your seat. And as you do, I want to share letters from our fellow passengers. And to start us off, let's listen to a letter that Dr. McGee read years ago. It confirms how the Lord transforms our lives.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: I have a letter to share with you that I'm not going to give you the place at all, any indication of it, and you can understand why. We're trying to show that homosexuals are being converted today. For several years, we've had letters from these that have been caught up in this. So we today want you to hear this letter.

This party says, "It's in elation and long at last finding a way through the Lord via your sharing on the radio which we now listen to every morning. Both of us, being prior homosexuals in the worst way, have dropped our facades and are now wanting to work for the Lord in helping others to repent. Not only other lost homosexuals, but those who wandered away from the Lord and the teachings of their parents.

For a long time, we did not know the answers to our deviations and that went along with it. We both feel that we have robbed God. So elated we are in our new way of life that we take the word of God to the campus of the university here. We do suffer some tribulations on the campus from our past homosexual friends, but find these attempted setbacks as a stronger foundation on which to help you bring the message to those who have lost their way."

Guest (Male): Dr. McGee loved to hear how God's word changed the lives of Thru the Bible listeners. And so do we today. Here's a recent note from a listener in Zambia: "The program saved my mornings and maybe even my life. I was discouraged and broken by many things happening in my life. It was hard to get out of bed, but then I began listening to you and slowly felt like rising wasn't as difficult as it once had been. Thank you for the word that gives us hope."

And then a listener in Mexico tells us this: "Your teachings have had a profound impact on my life. God has opened my eyes and given me clarity. I am growing in my faith. In the past, I would say I went to church, but I wasn't sure if I was truly saved. I asked the Lord for assurance because the place I attended didn't provide clear answers. I even felt that they themselves were unsure of their salvation. It's a troubling thought. Blessings to you, my brothers and sisters, your messages have been a great source of edification for me. Now, I feel like I am truly thriving in my faith."

I love to hear that, don't you? Our last letter now comes from a listener in Kenya: "I used to wonder what it really meant to be saved when I started listening to this program. The teachings are clear and gentle, and they have made me fall in love with reading the Bible. Thank you for feeding our spirits every morning."

What's God teaching you as we travel through His word? Are you surprised by the connections that we make between the Old and New Testaments? We'd love to hear from you. You can drop us a note through our app, you can email us at biblebus@ttb.org, or send a note to Box 7100, Pasadena, California, 91109. In Canada, Box 25325, London, Ontario, N6C 6B1. You can also call and leave a message at 1-800-65-BIBLE.

Let's pray. Our gracious Heavenly Father, thank You for Your word and our opportunity to hear it freely. As it goes out, Lord, would You soften the hearts of those who are listening? And that includes each of us. In the wonderful name of Jesus Christ we pray. Amen. We're off to Revelation 12 on Thru the Bible with Dr. J. Vernon McGee.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: We just got down to the 12th chapter of Revelation last time, and the blowing of the seventh trumpet not only went ahead and covered ground right up to the door of eternity, but in a very brief manner. But there were many details that were omitted. So we are having introduced to us now seven personalities. And I'd like to introduce you to them today and next time, and also I will have to follow that the seven bowls of wrath. They are the worst of all. And then we have the fall of religious Babylon and also commercial Babylon.

We want to take these seven personalities. And last time, we just introduced the first one and identified her. And I read verse one again: "And a great sign was seen in heaven; a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And she was with child and travailing in birth, and being tormented to be delivered."

We identified that woman as Israel. The things that identify with this woman are also identified with Israel. From the very beginning, there was old Jacob and Rachel, and then the 12 sons that he had. And when Joseph had a dream, it was the sun and the moon and 11 stars made obeisance to him—he was the 12th one, of course. And old Jacob interpreted that to mean, "Shall I and your mother and your eleven brethren fall down and worship you?" And they did before it was over with. The mother did not, of course, but certainly this is representative of the nation Israel.

The woman is a sign in heaven, but her career and her mission is here on the earth. It's made very clear she's not a literal woman. The career of the woman corresponds to that of Israel. And it's Israel that gave birth to Christ, who is the child. Notice some scriptures in the right light that we might understand them. I know that all of us do this at Christmastime. We use Isaiah 9:6, as well as other verses concerning the birth of Christ. And actually, it does concern the birth of Christ, but doesn't concern us at all because it concerns the nation Israel.

It says, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given." Who is referred to here when it says "unto us"? The church? No, the nation Israel. It's quite obvious that Isaiah was speaking to the nation Israel. And he is speaking to the nation Israel, not relative to a savior, but a governor, a ruler, a king, one that was to come and rule over them. "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given." It's interesting, the child is born, His humanity, but He was the son from eternity, and He was given.

The government shall be upon his shoulder. We're talking not about the savior that we talk about today, but the one who's coming as king. We're going to see that in this book. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. There won't be any peace till He comes because when the rulers of this world say peace and safety, then sudden destruction comes upon them.

They were having a big peace congress in Holland when World War I broke out, and most of the delegates almost got fired on before they got home. When they say peace and safety, it's idle because man is working at peace from the wrong end. It's the human heart that's wrong. And only Jesus will bring peace. He's the Prince of Peace. It's talking to Israel here: "Unto us a child is born." And that's the figure that John picks up.

The writer to the Hebrews says in Hebrews 7:14, "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah." And Paul in Romans 9:5 says, "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came." He's talking about Israel because he began by asking the question, "Who are Israelites?" Well, they just happen to be that concerning the flesh Christ came. The woman at the well was accurate: "How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, a woman of Samaria?"

Then we have in Micah 5:2 and 3, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that's to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been of old, from everlasting." He'll be born in Bethlehem, but He comes out of eternity. "Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel."

Travailing in birth is associated with Israel in Isaiah 66:7 and 8: "Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? Who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." But it had to be the birth of that son first.

So we identify the woman as the nation Israel. No woman that has lived or ever lived fits in this, even including the Virgin Mary. It's the nation Israel, and certainly not the church of all ages. Because if we'll just keep our bearings here and not lose our heads, we're in the Great Tribulation period, and the church has already gone to heaven. This woman is not the church of all ages. She's tormented, and certainly this nation has suffered satanic anti-semitism from that day till the present—in fact, even before that day because Satan knew that it would be from this nation.

We have introduced to us another character, and this character is really not a delightful one at all. It's the red dragon, and this is not a funny paper characterization either. Nothing funny about him. In fact, it's very solemn and serious. I'm reading my translation, verses three and four: "And there was seen another sign in heaven." Notice these are signs that are given to us, and they're not literal.

John would make it clear as he went along. If he's giving you a symbol, he'll make it clear in some way to you that that's what it is. "There was another sign in heaven: behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems." Those are kingly crowns, by the way. "And his tail draweth a third of the stars of heaven, and he did cast them into the earth; and the dragon stood before the woman about to be delivered, and when she was delivered, that he might devour her child."

This is a sign that sets before us the red dragon, and the red dragon's Satan. How do you know that? Well, I know that because verse nine will identify him. And I'm reading verse nine: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

So we can identify this character without speculating at all. In this second sign, the true character of Satan is revealed with all the wrappings removed. He is great here. We're told that he's the great red dragon. He's great because of his vast power. He controls the nations of the world and offered them to the Lord Jesus if He'd worship him because that finally is what Satan wants: worship. He offered the kingdoms of this world. He said, "They are mine," and they are his, and he controls them today. In that day it was Rome, but he's controlled every nation, you see.

It says he's red because of the fact that he was a murderer from the beginning—John 8:44 tells us that. He has no regard for human life. And why so many today serve him? Why is it that alcohol finally kills you? It's the worst killer there is today. Well, because Satan is back of it. He has no regard for human life at all.

He's called a dragon because of the viciousness of his character. He was originally created Lucifer, son of the morning, but he's now the epitome of evil and the depth of degradation. The most dangerous being in all of God's creation—your enemy and my enemy if we're a child of God. We're going to be introduced later on in chapter 13 to a beast, and the beast in chapter 13 is similar to the dragon. Because we're going to see that it's the dragon there that brings out the beast. We'll see that when we get to it; I'll save that until then.

He has seven heads. I think that suggests the perfection of wisdom which characterized the creation of Satan, who was originally the covering cherub. In Ezekiel 28:12, which speaks of his origin, it says, "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus," and he's put as the figure there of Satan, "and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

This reveals two of the fallacies that the world has concerning Satan. They think he's ugly. He was created perfect in beauty. And if you could see him today, you wouldn't see the foul creature that is pictured for us today by the world, even on a bottle of water that is sold today for certain purposes. There is that being Satan and he has horns, he has cloven feet, he has a forked tail. That's the great god Pan that the Greeks worshiped and Rome worshiped. That's not Satan, although Satan was back of that worship. I've seen that temple in the ruins of the different temples to the great god Pan in I suppose a dozen cities. He was certainly worshiped.

It's not strange today that men are worshiping him when they won't have God; they'll certainly take him. But he's smart. He's clever. He's wise. You and I are no match for him at all, and you and I will be overcome if we try to go forth in our own strength against him. He's not only beautiful, but he's full of wisdom. That's the way he's presented.

He has 10 horns, and I think that suggests the final division of the Roman Empire which is dominated by Satan and which is his final effort to rule the world. This fits into that picture. And the crowns on the horns, not on the heads, since it is delegated power from Satan, and the crowns represent kingly authority and rulership. A third part of the stars of heaven follow him. That speaks of his rebellion. Daniel makes reference to this, and the dragon hates the man-child that the woman has, and we're told in Genesis 3:15, the beginning of it: "I'll put enmity between thee," that is Satan, the dragon, "and the woman, and between thy seed," Satan, and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, thou shalt bruise his heel."

We get a view of the child of the woman here. In verses five and six, the child of the woman is introduced to us. I'm reading from my translation: "And she was delivered of a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd or to rule all the nations with a rod of iron." We've seen that now in Psalm 2:9. "And her child was caught up unto God and his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness." This world is a wilderness; Israel was scattered throughout the world. "Where she hath a place prepared of God, and there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and sixty days." During the intense part of the Great Tribulation period, Israel will be protected of God, that is, this remnant of Israel.

I would like to say this. There are those that say so dogmatically today that Israel will go to the rock-hewn city of Petra, and there's where Israel will be preserved because no enemy can get in. But the enemy now comes from the top and drops down bombs, and that's the last place I would want to be when bombs start falling is in that rock-hewn city of Petra. Very candidly, to make that dogmatic statement today along with clear-cut prophecies is certainly deceiving people.

If you want to say that, and I don't mind saying it, I don't know where the place will be. I personally feel like it could be this place, but let's say we don't know. It won't hurt a lot of us preachers today to say we don't know when we don't know. I read a book on Antichrist the other day, and this fellow, it took him about 125 pages to say what I can say in one sentence: "I don't know who is Antichrist." And he didn't either, my friend. Today to be so dogmatic about that which is not revealed is to my judgment tragic.

I don't think that we ought to say dogmatically—if you want to say it, I don't object provided you say that it's my judgment, I think that it'll be, but you don't have scripture for that, except speculative scripture. Now will you notice, we're told here that the child is Christ. I think by now that's quite evident, and He's easily identified here. I hope that no one will fall into the error of equating the child with the church—many have done that.

He's to shepherd or rule all the nations with a rod of iron is a clear-cut reference to Christ. We've quoted Psalm 2:9, "He shall break them with a rod of iron." Again, that was quoted by the early church and it was quoted as referring to the day that began with the persecution of the church, but He's going to finally come to power.

Her child was caught up unto God and his throne. That speaks of the ascension of Christ. He ascended into heaven; witnesses saw Him caught up into heaven. Today we're looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Remember that this book is the unveiling of the ascended Christ. The Book of the Revelation rests upon the fact of the ascension. Christ is the one who has opened the seals of the book that has led to all that has followed since then. She brought forth a man-child, and I think that settles the identity of the woman. Israel is clearly the one from whom Christ came. Who are Israelites? of whom is concerning the flesh Christ came. We're going to pick that up next time. I see our time is up. So until next time, may God richly bless you, my beloved.

Guest (Male): Well, here at the beginning of the second half of Revelation, it might appear that Satan, the most dangerous being in all of God's creation, is the central character. But he's not. As Dr. McGee said, Revelation is about the unveiling of Jesus Christ. It's all about Jesus, glorified and lifted up. And that's the message of the whole Bible, too. So if you don't have a relationship with Him yet, why don't you click on "How can I know God" in our app or at ttb.org to learn more? There you'll find several free resources by Dr. McGee to read and listen to that'll explain the importance of this decision. Or you can call 1-800-65-BIBLE and we'll send a few to you by mail.

And if you're getting a lot out of these studies in Revelation, are you thinking about inviting a friend to join us? Well, here's a super simple way: you can download and send them a copy of Dr. McGee's free digital book, *God's Grand Finale: An Introduction to Revelation*. In it, they'll learn a basic grid to understanding Revelation and some unique features of the book. It also includes a review of the 10 principles of prophecy that all get fulfilled in Revelation.

Of course, Dr. McGee ultimately explains that despite the bizarre images and important symbols, Revelation is about Jesus and God's intention and purpose for Him to reign on Earth. *God's Grand Finale* and other great resources on prophecy by Dr. McGee are available for free download in our app or at ttb.org, so check them out yourself. Okay, so here's a question for you: How will there be war in heaven? Well, find out next time as we make our way through the Bible. I'll meet you then, right here on the Bible Bus.

Our story on the Bible Bus today is just one step in a five-year journey through the entire word of God. Come along for the ride and you'll study both the Old Testament and New Testament, discovering God's great redemption story. Is this your story too?