Thru the Bible - Questions & Answers

Narrator: What's the most difficult passage of scripture to interpret in the whole word of God? Can you guess? Well, stay with us and find out.

Narrator: You're listening to the question and answer program with our Bible teacher Dr. J. Vernon McGee, who for over 30 years answered the questions of his many radio listeners. This is a ministry of the Thru the Bible Radio Network.

Let's begin our questions today with this one, which comes to us from a listener in Brush Prairie, Washington, who writes: "Second Thessalonians chapter 1 verse 7 says, 'For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.'"

"You say that is a reference to God or the Holy Spirit, but where else in scripture does it say that God will be taken out of the way? Could you help me with the understanding of this verse?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: May I say to you that, to begin with, the scripture teaches God is a sovereign God. He's omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. And that means he's present everywhere and he's present everywhere, all of him, at the same time. And that I do not understand, but that's because we're talking about infinity.

Now, the scripture uses certain anthropomorphic terms. And I wish we had Elijah here this morning, I think he'd like to answer your question. You will recall that when he had run away from God, God fed him good. The poor fellow hadn't had a good, steady diet, and God fed him for a while in the wilderness.

And then he equipped him to go back, and he had to teach him a lesson, and there was a great earthquake. But it says God wasn't in the earthquake. I don't know where he was, but he was taken somewhere, busy somewhere else. And then there was a storm, and God wasn't in the storm. And then there was a still, small voice, and that still, small voice was God. Apparently, he got back again.

So, when you begin to ask questions like that, we're dealing with a sovereign, omnipresent God. And for you and me to understand it, he uses anthropomorphic terms, that is, terms that apply to man. And the Lord Jesus Christ, when he came down to this earth, he took upon himself our humanity, and that limited him, by the way.

You remember the two sisters, Mary and Martha, said, "If you had been here, our brother would not have died." So, evidently, the second person of the Godhead gets around also, and sometimes he's not present.

And now we come to the Holy Spirit. Now, the verse you've given has many interpretations. Some of those interpretations, of course, have since proven very incorrect. There were those that at one time said it was the Roman Empire. Some of the early church fathers said that. But, of course, the Roman Empire's gone now. And if it was the Roman Empire, it sure was taken out of the way a long time ago for things to continue very much as they had before.

So, what you have here is something that ought to be approached from a little bit different viewpoint than you've given. Now, you put it like this, "My understanding of God is that he's sovereign, moves according to his own will." And that, of course, is true.

Also, to say that God just hinders the evil and then is taken out of the way is to say God did a little, halfway, unsuccessful job of stopping the evil, and then something took him out of the way. This just doesn't coincide with any other part of the Bible or even the next verse which says the Lord will consume and destroy the wicked.

And you're certainly correct, it doesn't conform to any other part of the Bible, and doesn't conform to this, because the whole thought here is that if you want to see this working in another way, God made the statement right at the very beginning. He said, "My spirit will not always strive with man." There'll come a time when the Holy Spirit will be removed.

And there came a time when the Lord Jesus left the earth. He said, "It's best for you that I go away. For if I do not go away, the Holy Spirit will not come." You see, was the Holy Spirit in the world at that time? Yes, he's God. He was there. Everything the Lord Jesus did, he did it by the power of the Holy Spirit.

But you see, he came on the day of Pentecost to do a particular work of calling out a body of believers. Now, when he's the one that's hindering evil in the world today, he's doing it in order that he might call out a body of believers. Now, when he's removed, there won't be very much calling out at that time, because the world is going to enter this particular period.

There is today a force that is holding down evil. Man's not near as bad as he could be in the world. And therefore, your entire approach to this is unscriptural, you see. God has a program. And to try to use an illustration that you do that God did a halfway job, well, at the time of the flood, he had to destroy man.

Are you prepared now to say that God did a halfway job, so he had to come in and start all over again? I don't think so. I think God's following a plan and a purpose. And I think you need to get back and see that plan and purpose, because you've left that out of your question altogether.

Narrator: We come now to a question from a listener in Ladysmith, Wisconsin. She writes, "What is your interpretation of Mark chapter 9 verses 49 and 50? They don't seem to fit with the preceding verses on hell. I've asked my pastor and he gave me some reference books and told me that these are the two hardest verses to interpret in the scriptures. The Scofield Bible does not provide any notes on this verse, and even your book on Mark makes a very brief explanation. Could you enlighten me on this? Are not Christians the salt of the earth?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: All right. First of all, I want to read the two verses. "For everyone shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. Salt is good. But if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another."

Now, very frankly, this follows very nicely what has been said before it on the subject of hell. And probably I ought to lift out several verses back of these two verses. "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it's better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off. It's better for thee to enter into life maimed than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched."

"And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off. It's better to enter in halt into life than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out. It's better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire, where their worm dieth not and the fire's not quenched." And then we have these two verses that have been asked, "And everyone shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt."

Now, before we look at that, there are two things I would like to mention. First of all, that of all the books I have on Mark, the one that I have actually found more helpful on the entire gospel is Dr. Skyler English's book. And it has very helpful notes on this particular passage, and again, it does not go into a great deal of detail, and for a very, I think, sufficient reason.

But he also has gathered together the statements that have been made by all the great commentators of the past, and what they've had to say about this verse, or these two verses. I'd like for you to hear this, because some of you, I'm sure, had quite a letdown when I read these two verses, for I'm sure you did not think they were the most difficult in the scripture.

But now, will you listen to what the great commentators of the past have said. Alexander said, "This is one of the most difficult passages in the whole book." Bloomfield said, "No passage in the New Testament has so defied efforts to define it a definite interpretation." And Grimm wrote, "The passage is exceedingly difficult." Humon wrote, "It is exceedingly vexing." Jansen wrote, "It is exceedingly obscure." And Lindsay wrote, "This is one of the most difficult verses in the New Testament." And Morrison wrote, "Among the most difficult in the Bible." And Fritzsche wrote, "It is one of those passages in which, because of their extraordinary obscurity, crosses seem to be fixed on which to torture expositors."

And Ryle wrote, "It is one of those nuts which are yet untied in the exposition of scripture." And Jones wrote, "These two verses are obscure, there's scarcely a word that does not offer difficulty." And Scroggy wrote, "These verses are among the most difficult in the Bible and are almost the despair of expositors." And Wolf, "It is exceedingly vexed."

Well, now friends, with that kind of a viewpoint of these two verses, do you think I can do anything with them? Well, very frankly, I've given you these quotations to let you know how weak my interpretation of it may be. And I think this pastor was very wise in giving to this party several reference books and let them study it for themselves. I wish I could do the same thing. But since this is on radio, I'll just have to do the best I can.

Now, let's look at this for just a moment. "For everyone shall be salted with fire and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt." Now, I'd like to take that last expression first. You will find that salt was put in every one of the five sacrifices that are mentioned in the first part of Leviticus. It was in every sacrifice. And you will also find it was especially in the meal offering and given a very separate place there, that salt was to be added to the meal offering.

Now, you and I know what salt does. Actually, it seasons anything, and it is a very good seasoning, by the way. And that's what a Christian ought to be, is to be a good seasoning in the world. The Lord deliver us from being bland and being boring. That's two things that I think are almost unforgivable today for a preacher. We are to be like salt in the world. And believe me, it adds a little zip to certain things also.

And I, very frankly, would be extremely discouraged in this broadcast if I didn't get some letters, which I do get, saying, "You're too plainspoken, you ought to tone down what you have to say." Then some accuse me of trying to be sensational. But I appreciate all those criticisms because I sure am not being boring to some people, at least. I've got them up on their toes where actually some of them got offended. That's all right, because we're to be salt. You put salt in a raw place on you, and believe me, you know it's there.

And a Christian ought to make an impact in this world, every Christian should. And that meal offering was a picture of the Lord Jesus Christ, actually, in his humanity. It was not the deity of Christ there. You find that in the other offerings, but here, in the meal offering, it's just the beauty of Jesus that you see in everything that went into that offering. And salt was one of them. And believe me, you could be sure of one thing, when the Lord Jesus was around, things began to happen.

And that was true of the apostles later on. And you remember it's said of Paul that everywhere he went, they either had a revival or a revolution. He either was worshipped or they put him in jail. Those were the two alternatives for him. So that, "Every sacrifice shall be salted with salt." And I think that he's saying here that the child of God should be that kind of a person. And now he says, "Everyone shall be salted with fire."

Now, fire is also a preservative. Salt preserves. And therefore, he uses the expression here that, "Everyone shall be salted with fire." Now, that is one way they cauterized wounds in the old days, you remember. You read some books that take you back to the early days in England. Those days have always been fascinating to me. A man actually gets an arm cut off. And what do they do with the stump that's left? They cauterize it with fire. They put fire to it. Now, that's one way of preserving.

And what he's saying here, it's better to have an eye taken out. It's best to have your hand taken off here in this life in order that you not be condemned. And I think this is such strong language that we don't quite get it, that actually, friends, today, if you mean business with God. These folk that write in and say, "I have this bad habit and I can't give it up." Well, if it means cutting off a hand, why it should be done.

May I say to you, these verses are difficult because what they're talking about is difficult, and it's difficult for us to accept it today. And I want to say to you, this is strong medicine. And this is what we need, I think, to live to a holy life. Now, that is something else today that's not popular among Christians. Oh, we talk about dedication today and how we serve the Lord, but God has said, "Be holy, for I am holy," says the Lord. And holiness today is something Christians are actually afraid of. I heard a Methodist bishop in the South years ago say, "If Methodists were only as afraid of sin as they are holiness, it would be a wonderful thing." Well, that doesn't include just Methodists.

I find that Christians everywhere today, they like to talk about dedication and serving the Lord, and you know, teaching a Sunday school class and giving a testimony, but believe me, if it really's going to cost them something, taking off an arm, taking off a leg, are they willing to go that far? And would you be willing to do that in order to live a holy life?

I think these verses mean just exactly what they say, and we try to tone them down. All of us do. I'll let you hear what I have in my book. And I, naturally, didn't have time going through the Bible to go into any detail like I am now, but have this, and I'm reading now. These are strange statements. The thought is that both fire and salt purify. Fire purifies by burning away the dross and impurities. Salt penetrates and burns out the corruption and stays the spread of impurities. If we have salt, the cleansing work of the word of God working within us, it sanctifies and brings peace. Now, that is exactly what I believe that these verses teach, but I did not amplify it because I didn't have time on the radio in the Thru the Bible program to do that.

But now, let me go over it again. "But everyone shall be salted with fire." The Lord's going to test his own. The writer to the Hebrews, you remember, made that very clear. He says, "You're an illegitimate son of God, you're a bastard, if you're not tested of God." Because God tests all of his children. God never whips the devil's children. He whips his own. And therefore, everyone's going to be salted with fire. God's going to test you. He's going to put you in the fire. But the interesting thing is, just like the three Hebrew children, that he kept in the fire, whatever fire he puts you in, whatever test, he's able to keep you, and he's able to see you through. And he makes it very clear that you're going to have that kind of testing. And the difficulty is, many of us break down under it.

Now, notice what he says next in verse 50. "Salt is good, but if the salt have lost his saltness." And I think the Scottish translation may be the best here: "if the salt has lost its tang," that zip, that zeal that should characterize the child of God. And how many Christians have lost their saltness? How many today, I notice this a great deal. We have a wonderful staff here. But I find that they brighten up a little bit more on Sunday in doing something in the church. But, you know, on Monday morning, to get down to reading letters, getting down to running an adding machine, getting down to opening letters, you know, that's very prosaic, and it's not very thrilling, you see.

And there are a lot of Christians today that have lost their saltness, their tang. Oh, they started out well, you know. I think I can illustrate that. Here is a man that, for instance, this will apply to us preachers. We are in the ministry, and I find that in holding conferences, you get awfully tired. I came back from Florida after five straight weeks of conference, and at my age, you ought not to do that. And my wife asked me not to do it, but we got back almost collapsed. And have I been rebuked by different friends for doing that? I don't think I ought to be rebuked for doing that at all. If you need to cut off a leg, cut it off, friends. And I feel like that today, I'd like to just keep at it.

Now, I find that some people, one man told me, he says, "You know," he says, "I've just dropped out." He says, "I'm just tired of this traveling around. I'm just tired of holding conferences." He told me, "He says, 'Aren't you tired?'" And I said, "Yes, I'm tired." But I said, "You know, to me this is a great thrill." And that's what he's talking about here. "Salt is good, but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will you season it?" My friend, you can't season salt. There's no way in the world to improve it. And so, if the salt has lost its saltness, why, it can't be improved. And it's tragic to see men serving God today like that. Their salt, yeah, but they've lost their saltness.

Now, "Have salt in yourselves." Now, salt is to purify us on the inside. And I think it should lead us to holy living. And, oh my, how that's needed today. And then he says, "Have peace with one another." Now, that seems out of place, but if you read the gospel here, you'll find out that these men, there's been some jealousy among the apostles, "Who should be greatest?" And that causes a lot of problems in churches today, "Who's going to sing the solo? Who's going to be the deacons?" And all that sort of thing, you know. He says, "Have peace one with another." The important thing is peace above position. Be sure that you put peace above trying to get a position. So many folk think today that they should sing. And I don't think they ought to sing. There are a lot of people today that think they ought to teach a Sunday school class. I don't think they ought to teach a Sunday school class. Somebody says, "Well, to me, what do you think they ought to do?" They ought to do something, they ought to find out what their gift is. They're doing that which they want to do, which they think has a little tang to it. The person on the inside is to give the tang to it. If you've got a Sunday school class, and it's a bunch of dull boys, brats of the junior high age, and you think, "Man, I'm going to give that class up. I'm having nothing in the world but problems with that class." Well, may I say to you, if you're having problems, and they're a dull bunch, maybe the teacher has something to do with it. Get a little salt on the inside. That's where it's to come from, inside the believer.

Now, I have approached this with a great deal more detail than I've written about it, that's for sure. But I believe this is the meaning of the passage. And yet, I recognize that I may be in a country mile of it. But I believe that's what the Lord Jesus is talking about, and it's just very difficult to accept what he has to say.

Narrator: With that answer, we come to the end of another question and answer program. We hope that you've been stimulated to search the scriptures for answers to your questions. If you'd like help with your study of God's Word, then we'd like to send you our resource catalog listing numerous items that we have available by Dr. McGee. We continue Dr. McGee's five-year journey through the whole Word of God this week on the Thru the Bible Radio program heard on this station. And we provide notes and outlines to help you follow along. To be added to our mailing list for notes and outlines, and ask for our catalog, call 1-800-65 Bible, Monday through Thursday, from 6:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Pacific time. Or write to Questions and Answers, in the US Box 7100, Pasadena, California, 91109. In Canada, Box 25325, London, Ontario, N6C 6B1. And then we can also be reached by going to ttb.org, where you can find our online bookstore and links to Facebook, Twitter, and our apps. Until this time next week, may God continue to answer all your questions and solve all your problems.

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