Thru the Bible - Questions & Answers

Guest (Male): After reading a passage of scripture, have you ever said, "I have no idea what that means"? Well, Dr. McGee has. Stay with us and find out which verse it was and how he came to its meaning.

This is the Question and Answer program with our Bible teacher, Dr. J. Vernon McGee, and it's a ministry of the Thru the Bible Radio Network. We hope that you'll gather around and prepare for some wonderful insights into the word of God.

Our first question comes from a listener in Sunset Beach, California. He says, "What is meant by the white stone in Revelation 2:17?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Well, let me read Revelation 2:17: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

Now, there are several suggestions that we have to make. We can't be dogmatic about some of these things, but we do know first of all that he's writing to the churches in this particular section and to believers in particular in these churches. He's speaking about a reward for those that are faithful and those that hear his word, and here it's to the overcomers. They are given to eat of the hidden manna, and he says he'll give him a white stone and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Well, first of all, this matter of the stone with a name written in it takes us back to the high priest in the days of the Mosaic system. When you remember that there was made for Aaron the wonderful breastplate, and on that breastplate, there were the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. There was a different stone for each tribe and twelve stones, and on each the name of a tribe. When the high priest went into the presence of God, he carried on his heart the names of these twelve tribes.

Now also, the high priest wore a sort of a tunic; it was called an ephod, and it had on the shoulders of it—on each shoulder a stone—and on each one of these stones, the names of six of the tribes of Israel, so that when the high priest went in, he not only carried the twelve tribes on his heart, each tribe by name on his heart, but on his shoulder he carried them—six on each shoulder.

Now, I believe that this stone represents every believer today. You and I have been put on the heart of our great high priest just as the twelve tribes were on the heart of Aaron when he went into God's presence. The Lord Jesus has those that are his own upon his heart; that is, he loves them. And then he has them on his shoulder, and he's able to save them to the uttermost.

I believe that there comes to a certain group of believers a particular reward, and I have a notion that that particular reward will be that stone that is upon his heart and upon his shoulder, that speaks of the fact that he's been carrying you and me down through all these years. He'll give that to us someday, and that will have on it the very personal name. It's interesting the way our Lord changed the names of so many folk that came to him. He started off that way, changed the name of Abram to Abraham.

You remember he changed the name of Jacob to Israel, and you'll find as you go through the word of God that God is continually changing the names of folk. When he called the twelve apostles, you remember there was Simon Peter, changed that fellow's name. And he changed the name of Saul of Tarsus; he became Paul the apostle. I think that he has a personal name for each one of us. It's going to be a wonderful thing someday to find out what our real name is.

I believe that for a certain group of believers, one of the rewards that's going to be given for those that overcome will be that stone. I think it'll remind us, if you and I get one of them, of the fact that all along it was he who was the overcomer. He was the one that was carrying us.

Guest (Male): Now, this longtime listener in Los Angeles is concerned with Dr. McGee's interpretation. She says, "You indicated in your lesson in Acts 5 that Ananias and Sapphira did not lose their salvation when they lied to the Holy Ghost. How do you reconcile your position with Revelation 21:8?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: And I think I'll just stop and read Revelation 21:8: "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

And God struck them dead physically, but were they not already dead spiritually when they consented together in their hearts to obey Satan and to endeavor to deceive the people rather than to tell the truth? Was not this an example to the early church of a holy God's displeasure with sin? I certainly agree to that, and "without holiness, no man shall see the Lord." If God took them to heaven, when and where were they to receive the new heart required by God of all his creatures? No sin can enter heaven.

Well, may I say along that particular line of reasoning then, how in the world are you and I going to get to heaven because of the fact we're sinners? But we've been redeemed, and I believe that Ananias and Sapphira were redeemed. When you say that the liars will have their part in the lake of fire, I take it for granted that means a liar that has not come to Christ and is not born again.

Because I'm of the opinion that most of us would find ourselves right in the middle of that lake of fire when it said no liar if it meant by that that if you've ever told a lie, you'd never be able to get to heaven. If that's true, then you'll have to count me out, and I have a notion you'll have to count you out also, because we haven't been able to escape that sin.

Ananias and Sapphira committed an awful sin. It was a terrible thing they did. But the interesting thing is that they were struck dead. Today, the liars are not struck dead in our church. If they were, we'd probably have a funeral every Sunday from most of our churches. But that doesn't happen today, but it did happen in the early church, and it reveals the fact of God's displeasure against sin, and he was cleansing it.

Now, will you look at it from this angle a moment. If they had not been born-again children of his, I do not believe he would have taken them home, for they, I think, committed the sin unto death. Because the Lord does not punish the devil's children; he doesn't spank them. If they had been the devil's, I don't think the Lord would have done what he did in this particular case at all.

Since they were his, he did take them home. That doesn't mean to minimize what they did. In fact, it means to say that it was much worse because they did happen to be God's child, and it ought to put the fear of God in a great many professing Christians, at least today, and certainly many born-again Christians who think they can go on and sin. We are dealing with a God that at any time is apt to call us home because he doesn't like his children down here disobeying him.

Guest (Male): 1 Corinthians 14:24 and 25 says, "But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convicted by all, and thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God."

So this listener writes, "My understanding of prophecy is to predict under divine inspiration, but in 1 Corinthians 14:24 and 25, it would seem that the unbeliever who came in was convicted of his sin and converted through the prophecies which he heard because he fell down and worshipped God. Could you clarify this issue?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Now, in a restricted sense, may I say that the word prophecy or prophesy does refer to predicting the future or speaking concerning the future. But on a broad base, and the basic meaning and foundational meaning of this word is just simply to speak for God. That's all. And in speaking for God, you can speak of the past, the present, or the future.

Now, I think it means here to speak for God because many prophets never did speak of the future, and it was only incidental to their message that any of them spoke of the future. The important thing was that they spoke for God, and many of them gave a message that pertained immediately to their hearers. Now, it's on that basis and it's in that sense that it's used.

This was a gift in the early church, and it was a gift in the early church to meet a specific and immediate need in the church. Now, let me explain to you what I mean by that. You see, in the early church at the time that Paul wrote this, he did not have before him Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Fact of the matter is, when Paul wrote this in 1 Corinthians, I do not think that he had one inspired page from the New Testament.

Now, with that sort of a situation existing, in order to get the message through to the people, these people were given a special gift of prophecy, which means just simply to speak for God. Some did speak of the future; Paul did later on. Fact is his first epistle, he wrote of future things in 1 Thessalonians. But the important thing is that these prophets, they spoke for God, not having any books of the New Testament.

Therefore, they were given this special gift. Now, whether there be prophecy, it shall cease. And that gift has ceased in the early church, you see. Just as the gift of tongues, whether there be tongues, they shall fail. That was a gift that was important and essential in the early church. It's not essential nor important nor significant nor needed for this hour, and the reason is we have twenty-seven books in the New Testament, and God is speaking there today. That's the thing that's all-important.

Guest (Male): During his study through the book of Proverbs, Dr. McGee indicated that he did not know what the meaning of Proverbs 13:8 was. So he requested his listeners to write in with their ideas and suggestions. Now here is Dr. McGee with those thoughts.

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Let me read the proverb first: "The ransom of a man's life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke."

The first letter I get comes from Canyon City, Colorado, from the secretary of the pastor of the Baptist church there. I really was amused at her letter. She said, "You asked if anyone could throw any light on verse 8 in chapter 13, to ask their pastor and send you the information. I have been intending to write you sometime but just haven't got around to it. I listen every morning before I come to work. I'm secretary to the pastor here at the church, and he told me to give you the following information: See page 303 of the Preacher's Homiletic Commentary on Proverbs; also the Pulpit Commentary on Proverbs, page 252."

Then she said this: "I must admit even that didn't make it any clearer to me, but I just did what you asked me to do." And may I say to you that I had the Preacher's Commentary and also the Pulpit Commentary and half a dozen others here, and I looked it up before I even taught that section. And I found the same thing this secretary found: it didn't make it any clearer to me, and I couldn't accept that interpretation at all.

Now, here is another letter, and it comes from Kingsport, Tennessee. It says, "I was just thinking when you read Proverbs 13:8, 'The ransom of a man's life are his riches, but the poor heareth not rebuke.' It is always the rich man or his family that are kidnapped and are held for ransom. So his riches could save his life provided the ransom is paid. Who would even bother with the poor in that respect?" Well, may I say to you that is a very good suggestion. It was one that I had before me, but I can't quite accept that.

A man has written me and he is a former minister. He had a long ministry, and he wrote me from Kansas City, Kansas. "As an old preacher of 63, that is, he's preached 63 years and you'll see he meant that in just a moment, my application is: the rich referred to is rich in faith, and the poor is the one without faith." And then he gives me some scripture references, and I'm going to look them up with you today.

I go on and read: "May God continue to bless you in your great work. I am 90 and one-half years old, can't do much anymore, so keep up the good work." Well, I think you did a whole lot. You put me on a very good track, by the way, and I think that you have the interpretation, and that's the reason I couldn't accept some of these commentaries' interpretation. The references that he gave to me are unusually good, and I do want to pass them on to you.

In 1 Corinthians 4:8, it says, "Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you." Now, Paul's writing to the Corinthians; they didn't have much in the way of fruit in their lives, but they did have faith, and they were rich in faith. He reminds them of the fact.

And he doesn't stop there. This man gives me another reference, 2 Corinthians 8:9, and I want to look at that. It says, "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich." And I would say that's spiritual riches. That is—and I will agree with this man—that faith in the Lord Jesus Christ makes over to us all these spiritual blessings: blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies.

And he goes on and gives me another reference, and that's Revelation 3:17, and that's the church in Laodicea. "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire." What kind of gold? Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The spiritual riches.

And now let's look at this proverb one more time. This is Proverbs 13:8: "The ransom of a man's life are his riches." What is the ransom of our life? The Lord Jesus Christ said, "The Son of Man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister and give his life a ransom for many." That's my riches, the price he paid for me. And now faith in him, the riches!

"But the poor heareth not rebuke." The man without faith pays no attention to what God has to say today. May I say to you, I'm deeply indebted to this dear brother who's 90 years old.

Guest (Male): Our next question comes to us from a listener in Lancaster, Kentucky, who writes, "Could you please explain the difference between a cult and the occult?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: The occult, and I'll take that one first, it has to do with the secret part of an organization, and that's what it fundamentally means. But in our day, we've associated the occult with that which is demonic or satanic. And that, by the way, is I think perfectly all right.

When you keep it in that context, why the occult then would refer to these mysterious organizations that are definitely demonic or satanic. We have out here in California a church that's called the Church of Satan, and it would come in under that class, I'm sure.

The cult actually just means a spurious religion. It's a spin-off, generally, of some denominational church or some denomination or some group. It's a spin-off that some person has taken some wild idea that is not scriptural and attempted to start something new, and that is a cult. The cults that we have, if you'll notice, are generally Bible-related; that is, they use the Bible.

But most of them use more than a Bible. Several of them have other books that they consider as inspired as the Bible. That would be true in this context. I can mention several that have extra: the Mormon Church has the Book of Mormon, and then, of course, the Christian Science, why they take Mary Baker Eddy, and they follow her.

But all of them work the Bible in here and there, but they consider these other books inspired. By that token, they stand in the category of being a cult, according to the definition of a cult. I think that would probably give you a pretty good rundown on the two words as used today.

Guest (Male): We end our questions today with this one from a listener in Tucson, Arizona, who writes, "Would you please explain the meaning of Matthew 5:17 through 21?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: The Lord Jesus now is speaking, and this is the Sermon on the Mount, and you have in this Sermon on the Mount the law of the kingdom. These are the things that are going to prevail someday on the earth. They declare the will of God, of course.

Now, he says here, "Think not that I'm come to destroy the law or the prophets: I'm not come to destroy, but to fulfill." He's fulfilling the law. You see, in several ways he not only kept the law, but he also became that sacrifice that the law demanded for sin, and he fulfilled it in several different ways. He says, "For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled." In other words, there is coming a time when on this earth man is going to live in perfection. And that's going to be a great day.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Now, he's talking to these Old Testament saints about the Old Testament law and that they were giving some wild interpretations of it in Christ's day.

Now, he made this statement: "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Now, here he's delivering a death blow to the Pharisees and the scribes because they claim that they kept the law and that they were saved by law. There are some people like that today.

The Lord Jesus says, "If your righteousness is not greater than the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees who claim they keep it all," he says, "your righteousness won't be accepted even if it's greater than the scribes and Pharisees." And how could it be greater? Well, it could only be greater if you have his righteousness. If you acknowledge you're a sinner and you need a Savior, then may I say you can have his righteousness.

Now, he says, "Ye have heard." He does something here that's quite interesting. He says, "Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: but I say unto you that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment, whosoever shall say to his brother Raca shall be in danger of the council, but whosoever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of hell fire."

In other words, he puts anger on the par with murder, that you're guilty of murder. In other words, he lifts the sixth commandment; he lifts it to the nth degree. Now, he also took the seventh commandment here and he lifted it to the nth degree. He said the law says thou shalt not commit adultery. He said why if you so much as look at a woman to lust after her, you're guilty of the act. You're guilty of breaking that commandment.

I think that he lifted all ten of them to the nth degree, by the way. I will say this, that when he lifts them up like this, none of us could be saved by law. And now to lift them to the nth degree reveals you're going to have to have a new environment, and you're going to have to have some new people around, and that's what you're going to have when the Sermon on the Mount is in effect. It'll be when he's reigning here on this earth, and there will be those that are his subjects on this earth that are obedient to him. May I say to you, you're going to have a different situation then; these things will all be fulfilled that are here.

I believe that I've attempted to answer a few questions that arise from this passage of scripture. I hope that we've answered some of yours.

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