Thru the Bible - Questions & Answers

Steve Shwetz: Standing before the Witch of Endor, King Saul requested that she bring up the prophet Samuel from the dead that he might consult him. Was the spirit of Samuel brought back from the dead, or was it an evil spirit sent to deceive Saul? Stay with us to find out.

This is Steve Shwetz, and we welcome you to another edition of the Question and Answer program with our Bible teacher, Dr. J. Vernon McGee. I hope that you'll be able to pull up a chair as we listen to his answers to the questions of his many listeners. This program is a ministry of the Thru the Bible Radio Network.

We begin our questions and answers with this one from Vista, California. This listener writes, "Jesus was born holy and sinless, the Holy Spirit giving him divinity and Mary gave him his humanity. Since Mary was subject to a sin nature, how was Jesus free of the sin in his humanity? Was Mary sanctified by the Holy Spirit and then afterward considered sinless?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Oh no, there's no thought of presenting her as sinless. In fact, she speaks of herself as being just a woman among women and that is all. She never accepted an exalted position. Now, how could Christ be sinless unless she was sinless? And that's been a problem, and there are many that attempt to answer it in a technical viewpoint from that of a physician or a scientist that studied these things.

And frankly, I don't think you can go that route. I was very much interested in this matter of genes, the studies that are being made on that. It may be possible to have a person the genes so shaped and arranged that a person that would come out with the whole head would be an eye, or something like that of the whole body, or maybe it could be an all-mouth deal.

And there's some pretty close to that right now. But nevertheless, the thing is the changes that can be made. And if man today after all these years has found out how to arrange a few genes and what a tremendous thing it is, don't you think that God could have arranged the human genes to come out all right as far as Jesus is concerned?

And the only thing that we need to know is not the method or the way that it was done, but the fact that the scripture says, as you've indicated, that holy thing that is born of thee is of the Holy Spirit. And I don't think that you can go back of that, my friend, and I don't think you need to go back of that. He's not attempting to give you a doctor's report or medical report on the birth of Jesus, and you can't put it into that context.

And if you find there a hurdle you can't get over, just be sure of one thing: that God could get over it though we could not. When are we going to reach the place that we're really going to believe God? And we have to say many times we don't know the method. We just know the fact. That's all.

Steve Shwetz: A Warrenburg, Illinois listener thought he heard Dr. McGee say that a husband and wife who went to heaven would be there as a married couple. So he asks, "Does not the Bible say that there will be no marriages nor will none be taken in marriage?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: May I say to you the scripture that you're quoting apparently is found in Matthew 22 verse 30. I think probably I ought to read it that we might see exactly what is said there. The Lord Jesus said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

And I take it that when he said they are like the angels of God in heaven, that he doesn't mean in every aspect of their being, but in relationship to this matter of marriage. Heaven will not be a place where you will get a bride. Heaven is the place where the Lord Jesus Christ gets a bride, and that's the church.

If you were married down here and both of the parties, the husband and wife, are believers and they've loved each other down here, they've enjoyed each other's company and they want to be together in heaven, certainly they'll be able to be together in heaven.

But you will not be able to go around in heaven and see somebody else's wife and want to marry her. That day is over with when you leave this earth here. And if you intend to have a wife, you better get her now, because I don't think you'll be able to get one there.

But the marriage state is not the important thing for heaven, and I think that's the emphasis the Lord Jesus is giving. The relationship of believers one to another is going to be so wonderful that it would transcend anything that we've known down here as the husband-wife relationship.

And therefore up there, why, it would not be that relationship unless you wanted it. And I can't help but believe that couples that have lived together down here will want to be together up there. And even if you've had a husband that hasn't been as kind to you as he should and yet he's a professing Christian, you may say, "Well, I'm not going to be with him in heaven."

He's going to be changed, and so are you, so that he'll be a pretty nice person up there. So don't worry about that part of it. And the thing of it is, this is not the important thing because the Lord nowhere dwelt upon this as being a great issue. So I take it that if a man and woman have loved each other down here, certainly they'll be able to love each other up there and in an altogether different, more wonderful way.

And personally, I think that there'll be sexes in heaven. I'm sure that must be true, and there will be a different kind of love relationship though. And I believe that many couples will want to be together there. And I'm sure that that would not be contrary to anything the Lord had in mind. If you want to be with them, why you certainly could be. But you don't get a wife down here so you'll have one in heaven.

Steve Shwetz: We come now to a question from a listener in Garden Grove, Pennsylvania. She says, "Could you please explain the meaning of Luke 17 verses 34 through 37? What did the disciples mean when they asked, 'Where, Lord?'"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: And I probably ought to turn to that because I think we're going to need to get those scriptures before us in order that we can see what they are telling about. So let me just read these scriptures here. It'll be Luke 17:34-37.

And it's the Lord Jesus again speaking, and it's a part of the Olivet Discourse. He says, "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed. The one shall be taken, the other left. Two women shall be grinding together. One shall be taken and the other left. Two men shall be in the field. One shall be taken and the other left." And they answered and said unto him, "Where, Lord?" And he said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

That is a difficult passage of scripture, and you would ask me a hard question today. This is a difficult question to answer. "Where, Lord?" The point is, and I think he's speaking here of his second coming to the earth to establish his kingdom.

And where he will be when he comes, that's where the eagles are going to be gathered together because he's talking, I think, about the Battle of Armageddon. Now, if you would go over to the Battle of Armageddon as it's given to us in the book of Revelation, that's the great passage that tells of the coming of Christ to the earth.

And it tells of his coming to establish his kingdom and it mentions there where the eagles are gathered together, and they are gathered together for a great banquet. They're going to be eating kings and captains and some of the great people of the earth. Now the reference here is to his coming to the earth to establish his kingdom.

Now, the ones that are left are the ones that are going to enter into the kingdom, and the ones that are taken are taken away in judgment. They're going to be removed from the earth. And I think that the question has to do with both of the saved and the lost.

He says one's taken, another left. Well, where will they be taken? The ones that are taken away in judgment are the ones that are removed from the scene. The ones that are left on the earth enter the kingdom that is to be established here upon the earth. And I think that is the correct interpretation of this passage of scripture, at least it's the one that I accept as the correct interpretation.

Steve Shwetz: We come now to our final question of the day from a listener in Burlington, North Carolina. He writes, "When King Saul went to the Witch of Endor and asked her to bring up Samuel from the dead, was it a demon spirit speaking through her, or was it actually Samuel brought back by a miracle of God? Many modern orthodox commentators say the latter."

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: There's one orthodox man that is not of that opinion. This is one of the many questions we're getting today that you cannot answer with a yes or no. When I first started this question and answer program, half of the questions that we had you could answer them with a yes or no.

And I was telling some friends that the question and answer program has changed, that you can say yes or no, but you actually do not answer the question because many side issues are suggested. Now because of that, I am going to turn to my little book on 1st and 2nd Samuel in which I deal with this passage, which actually begins in the seventh verse of the 28th chapter of 1st Samuel.

Now I'm going to read some of this, and I'm going to read from my book on this because you need a background to understand this. I'm reading now 1 Samuel 28:5-7. "And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid and his heart greatly trembled. And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams nor by Urim nor by prophets."

Now, keep that in mind. God is not answering Saul at all. That is just not here. And I'm reading now verse seven. "Then said Saul unto his servants, 'Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her and inquire of her.' And his servant said to him, 'Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.'"

I'd like to read the comment I have on that, and it'll give you a background in which we can answer your question. Since God was not speaking to Saul, he turned to Satan in desperation. The Witch of Endor was probably a ventriloquist. I think she was partly phony and partly given over to spiritism. I would like to dwell on the subject of spiritism for a moment.

We're living in a day of thrills and thrills in religion. One of the avenues which thrill-seekers are exploring is modern spiritism or ancient necromancy. Of course, the strongest argument they have is the Witch of Endor. They say she brought Samuel back from the dead. The question is, did Samuel really come back from the dead and communicate with Saul?

If so, it's the only instance of such a thing in the scripture. Before answering this question, I want you to look at some important background material. Scripture positively condemns the practice of necromancy. This is what Deuteronomy 18:9-14 says about the subject.

"When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone that maketh his son and his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do."

Now that's the end of the scripture quotation. We're living in a day when there's a great deal of practice in the areas which are mentioned here in Deuteronomy. In Time magazine several years ago, two fortune tellers were listed. According to the magazine, most of the Hollywood stars consulted them in order to find out what the future held for them.

We're seeing a revival of this today, but it has been going on for a long time. Back in 1947, The Guardian, a publication of the Church of England, ran this article: "In spite of the large amount of fraud, fake deceit, and thought-reading conscious or unconscious, that the investigator of psychic research has to contend with, there remains a nucleus of genuine matter that cannot be explained with our present knowledge except by accepting the hypothesis that human personalities exist through death and that certain persons have the power and gift of contacting them. Churches have nothing to fear from genuine psychic phenomena."

Now, that's the end of the quotation from The Guardian, but this is still the quotation from Time magazine. It is amazing that since then there has been a growing interest in the matter of looking at the stars. The so-called signs of ESP has also been growing. Many people have purchased horoscopes. Millions of dollars going into the pockets of astrologers annually, and most of them are female.

I'm still reading now. May I say to you that the Word of God absolutely condemns this sort of thing, and God has judged nations in the past because of it. He even put his own people out of the land for turning from him to these different abominations. My friend, these are the dangerous practices of the hour. The scriptures warn us of the danger and predict that there will be an outbreak of it.

Now I continue to read from my book. You will find in the account of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31 that the rich man was strictly forbidden to return to the living. He was told that he could not. Paul was caught up to heaven and silenced. He could not tell what he had seen. That's in 2 Corinthians 12.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:9, Paul says, "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders." Paul writing to a young preacher says, "Now the spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons." That's 1 Timothy 4:1.

We are seeing an increasing number of churches that are called churches where Satan is actually worshipped. This is something that the Word of God says will increase in the last days. Now I'm returning back to the question about the Witch of Endor, and I'm reading 1 Samuel 28:8-13.

"And Saul disguised himself, put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, 'I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.' And the woman said unto him, 'Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?' And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, 'As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.' Then said the woman, 'Whom shall I bring up unto thee?' And he said, 'Bring me up Samuel.' And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, 'Why hast thou deceived me? For thou art Saul.' And the king said unto her, 'Be it not afraid: for what sawest thou?' And the woman said unto Saul, 'I saw gods ascending out of the earth.'"

1 Samuel 28:8-13. Now notice that this frightens the old witch. She sees supernatural creatures coming out of the ground. Now notice what Saul says. "He said unto her, 'What form is he of?' And she said, 'An old man cometh up; he's covered with a mantle.' And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed himself." 1 Samuel 28:14.

And you notice they merely assume that it was Samuel. They did not know it was Samuel. If you read the account carefully, you'll realize that Saul did not see Samuel. It was the witch, who may never have seen Samuel in her life, who said she saw an old man covered with a mantle. Of course, they jump to the conclusion it was Samuel.

When they did, he answered as Samuel because demons can impersonate. Saul has laid himself wide open for Satan and Satan has moved in. And Samuel said to Saul, "Why hast thou disquieted me to bring me up?" And Saul answered, "I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me and answereth me no more, neither by prophets nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do."

You see, Saul is abandoned here by God. Just absolutely abandoned by the Lord. And I continue to read. "Then said Samuel, 'Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee and is become thine enemy? The Lord hath done to him as he spake by me: for the Lord hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand and given it to thy neighbor, because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek. Therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee.'"

Now notice it. It's interesting to note that nothing new is added. Saul does not get any new information. Samuel before his death had already pronounced the death, the destruction, and the rejection of Saul. Certainly, Saul did not gain any comfort, any direction, or any new information from his excursion into the spirit world.

This reminds me of an account related by one of the friends of Job. By the way he introduces it, you would think that he had been given some tremendous revelation, and we'll be coming to that in the book of Job and I'm not going into it. He tells about a spirit that passed before his face and the hair of his flesh stood up and all that sort of thing.

And all that was said to him was, "Shall mortal man be more just than God?" And who doesn't know that? There's no information brought at all. It's obvious from the account of the Witch of Endor that God was not in it. To begin with, God would not call Samuel up. Saul makes it clear that God was no longer speaking to him. Was Satan able to call up Samuel?

Now, that's the question. In scripture, we need to understand that only Christ ever communicated with the dead. He alone can speak to the dead. This man Saul had been abandoned of God. As far as he is concerned, heaven is silent. And so Saul turns to hell. Now, did Samuel appear to Saul? Several explanations have been offered.

There are those who dismiss the entire incident as a fraud. They do not believe anything about it was genuine. They say the witch was a ventriloquist and put on the whole show. I think she was a fraud too, but because she was as frightened as Saul at what happened, we can't rule out the supernatural. Houdini in his day said he could duplicate 95% of the so-called supernatural things that spiritism claimed it could do and did do, and granted that 99% of it's fraud. What about the 1%?

I believe what happened at Endor was supernatural, but I do not believe God had a thing to do with it. There is of course another explanation for what happened, and that is the desire of loved ones to communicate with those that have gone before. Sir Oliver Lodge and Sir Conan Doyle lost sons in World War One. They wanted to see them. I believe even these men were taken in by spiritism.

Also many others are deceived because of their strong desire to see their loved ones who are dead. There are those that say that the witch actually brought Samuel from the dead. I say to you that such an explanation is not tenable or consistent with the rest of scripture. We are told in 1 Chronicles 10:13, "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord which he kept not and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit to inquire of it."

And I think that we should accept that as it's given to us in the Word of God.

Steve Shwetz: Well, with that answer, we come to the close of another question and answer program. If you need an answer to a question that you have concerning the Bible, then contact our offices and ask for our resource catalog. It contains most of the available works by Dr. McGee covering the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Now, be sure to join us this week during the Thru the Bible Radio program heard on this station every Monday through Friday. This five-year Bible study takes us from Genesis through Revelation book by book and chapter by chapter. To help you along the way, we have Dr. McGee's notes and outlines either to send to you by mail or for free download online at TTB.org.

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