Thru the Bible - Questions & Answers

Guest (Male): The shadow of divorce has caused a great divide for those who find themselves wanting to do Christian service but being shut out because of their marital status. Is this right? What does God say about this in His word? Well, stay with us and find out.

You're listening to the Question and Answer program with our Bible teacher Dr. J. Vernon McGee, who for over 30 years answered the questions of his many listeners. In his booklet, When Jesus Went to a Funeral, Dr. McGee explained the difference between Jesus, who was resurrected, and others such as Lazarus, who were only restorations of life. This listener in San Diego writes, "Since Jesus is the only one with a glorified body, what kind of bodies do Enoch and Elijah have? And what about the saints mentioned in Matthew 27, verses 52 and 53? Were they restored or resurrected?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Let me first of all deal with Enoch and Elijah. I personally do not feel that they are today in a body. We have in the book of Revelation, in the sixth chapter, the opening of the fifth seal where down underneath the altar there were the souls, we're told, of those that had been slain. They're Old Testament saints all the way from Abel down to John the Baptist, those Old Testament saints that had been slain and been martyred. They were souls, not a one of them had a body. They were waiting for the resurrection.

I believe that when Enoch was translated, when he was taken from this earth, and Elijah also, that they should not see death on this earth. I do believe that they did not continue on in their bodies. Let's face it, they had a body, that old body they had. You go up a little distance and they would not be able to breathe. We know by the great problem that is presented in getting man into space that had they been taken up in their natural body, they wouldn't have gotten very far. I don't think they did. I think they were taken out of their bodies. I see nothing quite wrong with that. God just moved them out of the old tabernacle because, after all, it was not a tabernacle built for space travel and He moved them out. I think they're in the spirit today and that they are waiting with other Old Testament saints to be raised from the dead, that is, be given a glorified body. I do not think they have a glorified body.

The passage you give in the 27th of Matthew, verses 52 and 53, candidly are to me one of the most difficult passages in the entire word of God. I personally have never been satisfied with any interpretation that I've ever found, including my own. I think that the primary difficulty is that we know so little. We've been actually given so little. This to me is another proof of the inspiration of the scriptures. It's amazing the way God gives us so many demonstrations and proofs of the inspiration of the Bible, and one of those is that man having said so much could not have said so little. The tendency of man is that when he opens up a subject like this, he also opens his mouth or begins to write with his pen and doesn't know when to stop. But the Holy Spirit of God used a reverent restraint and just making the statement, and there's nothing here to satisfy any morbid curiosity.

I do not feel that we should go beyond what is written. Let me give you what is written here. Matthew 27:52-53, these are the verses that you have called our attention. It was at the time of the death of Christ. The veil in the temple was rent in twain. There was an earthquake. The rocks rent. Then we're told the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, came out of the graves after His resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared unto many.

If you'll notice, the graves were opened. The bodies did not come out until after His resurrection. One explanation is that these actually were taken with Him to heaven as a sort of a first fruits. This was a sort of a first fruits taken along with Him to heaven. I personally cannot accept that. I do not believe that these are in a glorified body at all. I personally think that they were raised in their natural bodies. Now the question is, what happened to them? Well, let me let you in on something, and I hope you're not going to let this secret out. I don't know. Now I don't want you to tell anybody that for the very simple reason there are some folk that actually think that I've got all the answers and I don't have them. I'm very sorry. I don't know. And the reason I don't know is that this is all that scripture says. Anything that I'd say beyond it would be merely speculation.

Guest (Male): Now here's an interesting question that many of us have probably pondered ourselves. The listener's from Los Angeles and writes, "Where is the Ark of the Covenant? I heard someone say it is in heaven based on Revelation 11:19."

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: I think I probably ought to turn there and read that verse. It says, "And the temple of God was opened in heaven and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament and there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail." May I say to you that the one in heaven is not the one that was down here on the earth at all. The one that is in heaven is the real article. You remember that Moses was told to make the tabernacle after the pattern of the one that was in heaven. The one down here on this earth was just a pattern and therefore the one in heaven is altogether different.

Now let's look at what really did happen to the ark. Of course the answer is nobody really knows what happened. Now the tradition, and by the way, it's a very strong tradition and one that is rather creditable, that is, there is some basis for it, that at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians, that the ark at that time was buried and then later on it was transported down to Ethiopia and that it was put in a church down there later on.

A missionary who was in Ethiopia told me after I was running a series on the tabernacle that she had been to this church. It was far into the jungle, not well known, and it was called the Church of the Ark. She did not see it. She said that it was called the Church of the Ark because they said the ark had been brought from Jerusalem and was placed in the church or buried in the church. At least she didn't see it and it certainly was not on display and it was not a tourist attraction at all at that particular time. So that that is one rather plausible account.

You remember the king of Ethiopia claimed to be a descendant of Solomon, and believe me he had some basis for that. The Queen of Sheba evidently had a son by Solomon and I would say that this man was descended from them. But he's now off of the throne, so that whether that ark is there, I believe that it's going to be found in the last days that when Israel gets back in the land according to the word of God, the temple is rebuilt, I think that the ark is going to be brought forth at that time in what way and how I don't know. I think just as David brought it down to Jerusalem when he gave instructions to his son Solomon for building the temple and the ark was put in the temple. So the ark evidently is somewhere and somewhere on this earth, I believe.

Guest (Male): Now this listener in Pasadena has a very personal question. She explains that she was divorced twice before being saved. Now she would like to participate in a local church. She says, "Does my past life prohibit me from participating in the Lord's Supper or becoming an active member? I just want to do what is biblical and right. Can you help me?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: May I say to you that unfortunately in our conservative circles today, we seem to forgive every sin a person commits when he comes to Christ with the exception of being divorced. If a person has been a sinner before and been divorced and comes to Christ, for some strange reason we hold that against them and I think it's wrong to do that. If a murderer would come and accept Christ in our conservative churches and would be received into the membership of the church, why we'd give them certainly every right we would anyone else. And yet a divorced person seems to have a stigma attached to them. I feel personally that this is very wrong and very unfair. I move in fundamental circles and I see this being used, I feel, in a way to hurt and harm people and to hurt them in a very bad way.

Now we deplore divorce and it's not to condone divorce to permit a person who has been saved after they have been married and divorced in the past. It is not to condone divorce to accept and receive them into full fellowship into the church anymore than it would be to condone murder just because a murderer accepted Christ or a thief for that matter. We don't commend stealing when a thief accepts Christ and comes into the church. We recognize that he's been forgiven.

Now I judge from the tone and tenor of your letter that you are indeed a forgiven sinner and that these things took place before you came to Christ and, as you express it, born again. All of your sins are forgiven. That past is forgiven. You have every right to come to the Lord's table as any other believer has. I do not think any believer has a right to shut you out from the Lord's table. You have been forgiven. You've accepted Christ as your Savior. Now I think you have a right to all the privileges that a church member would have. You certainly have a right to join a church. You have a right to the privileges, that is of voting, that seems to be the matter that was before you. You have a perfect right to vote.

Now I had the experience several years ago that came into our midst a preacher and his wife. I do not think that I have ever met a lovelier couple than this couple. They were faithful here, regular here, served here. Now there were some that would not even want him to take a Sunday school class. He was a good Bible teacher because of that past experience. He had been married and divorced in the past and this was his second wife. Now all of that had been forgiven him. He'd come to Christ and this lovely wife that he had now probably had a great deal to do with this man's new relationship.

He was shut out from service in one or two of our classes, and then he told me that he would love to get back into Christian service. He had been more or less shut out and I recommended him to a two or three churches. And do you know that he was turned down because of that in each one of the churches? He finally came and talked with me about it. He was greatly disturbed and distressed. He said, "Do you think that I'm shut out the rest of my life from service because of this experience of the past actually over which I had no control? I tried to even save the marriage although at the time he was not certainly one that would be inclined in that connection."

Well, I told him I said, "I think you have to face up to it. You are going to find that many places you'll be rebuffed and some of the saints will sure act unlovely. And therefore you need to sort of gird your loins and be able to meet this, but you are going to find that God will have a place for you." Now I'm happy to report that a door opened to him after that. I did not have, at least I don't think I had anything to do with it, but a door opened to him and he has become a very effective servant of God and rightly so. And apparently there are some that even in that place that they shied clear of him and probably left the church. I think that's very unfortunate.

I had when I was teaching here at the Bible Institute, when the Bible Institute was downtown here, I had the Bible department and in my class was a very fine young man and he was married. I thought that the girl he was married was a very fine girl. He found out she's unfaithful to me and he said, "What shall I do?" Well, I said, "My recommendation is that you try to win her back. Maybe you've gotten too busy in your studies and you've gotten away from her and she's found company elsewhere." Well, he tried that. Now he was humiliated, I know, for about a year and finally he came and he said, "I just can't go on any longer." He says, "She's now left me and she's actually living with another man. What can I do?" Well, I said, "You've reached the end of the road as far as I can see."

Well, this man got a divorce. Well, he was working out here in a church and doing a most acceptable and creditable job and they asked him to leave. And he had to give up his work there. He gave up his studies here. His home was back in Illinois. He went back there a crushed, broken man and my heart went out to him in a very real way. Well, you know five or six years went by and I was back at the Moody Founders Week speaking there at Moody Church on a Wednesday evening. And after the service, a group of folk that I had known were lined up down there to shake hands and lo and behold I saw this young man. My how he'd changed. He was very happy, very radiant, and he came by. He told me, "I'm pastor of a church down here in Illinois." And he said, "God is wonderfully used me there." And I asked him I said, "Well are you married?" He said, "No," he said, "I'm taking a long time to get over the other." He said, "It left an awful scar." And he said, "I'll be honest with you. I think I shall someday but I have no plans for it right now." But he says, "God has opened up a door for me." And God did.

So I have given this extended answer to this very moody question because there's so many that are afraid to speak out on it because we've got some very loud extroverts who are saints today that do not mind getting a club and beating you over the head if you disagree with them. Well, I disagree with them.

Guest (Male): A Joplin, Missouri listener sent us this question from her Sunday school class. She says, "We have been studying through the book of Acts and came to the 20th verse of chapter 15. The verse says to abstain from blood. Could you please explain the meaning of the phrase 'from blood'?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: We'll attempt to do our best with this question and I'll turn to Acts 15:20 and read that. "But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols and from fornication and from things strangled and from blood." Now first of all let me say that back in the Old Testament, the nation Israel was taught that the blood was the life of the flesh and that it was sacred and that they were not to eat any meat at all with blood in it. If you today should go to an abattoir or to a slaughterhouse where meat is being prepared, I worked in an abattoir when I was a boy in Nashville, Tennessee, and I do not recall just how often the rabbi would come. He had a long knife, it was like a razor. He'd just touch it to the throat of an animal, either to a lamb or to a calf, and believe me the blood would just pour out and they drained it. The animal was kept there till all the blood drained out.

Now they were taught that under the Mosaic system. Remember God says, "The life of the flesh is in the blood and I've given it to you as a sacrifice upon the altar to make an atonement for your sins." Now all that was typical in the Old Testament as Paul says in Colossians. These were shadows. It was pointing to Christ who was to shed His precious blood that we might be saved. Now we as Gentiles today, and as Jewish believers, do not believe there's of course any value in abstaining from eating animals that have not had the blood drained out or as we would say they're not kosher.

Now in the early church, at this particular time and this is the 15th chapter of Acts where they've just had an or are having, I should say, the Council of Jerusalem. And this was an all Jewish church and they were meeting together to see how Gentiles were to come in. Should they come in through the Mosaic system or should they come in just by accepting Christ and be saved by faith alone? You see all those that were Jews in the church in Jerusalem was 100 percent Jewish. They had all naturally had come in through the Mosaic system.

Well, they made the decision that the Gentiles did not have to come in through this Mosaic system at all. But they did ask the Gentiles, since they had no conscience on this, that a great many Jews who had come out of Judaism where they had not in fact to them it was repugnant this matter of the animals in that day that were offered to idols. They didn't want to eat it. Or they didn't want to eat blood, that is, animals that had been slain and the blood not drained out, you see. By the way, I think ought to pause to say that I have discovered that when meat is slain, the modern process is to drain the blood out even today. In other words, God's method, although it had a ceremonial value and a typical value, God never had folk do things just in an idle way. It also had other values in it. It had a physical value too. It made actually better meat.

But you see Gentiles in that day didn't know that. And so they ate it that way. Well, that was offensive to the finer sensibilities of the Jew and he was offended. Now they just said to the Gentiles, "You don't have to come in through the Mosaic system but we do suggest that when you're with the Jewish believers, that you not do this that which would be offensive to the Jews. That is eat things that are strangled, that is blood not drained out, or eat meat where the blood has not been drained from the animal beforehand." That's offensive to the Jew. It was really a request to not offend the Jewish believer in the church.

Guest (Male): A Covina, California listener writes, "Could you please explain First Corinthians 15, verse 28?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: "And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all." Now we have here given to us, if you please, in First Corinthians 15 an order in resurrection. Fact of the matter is this 15th chapter of First Corinthians deals so much with the subject of resurrection and it begins with the resurrection of Christ. And then you have the fact that the dead in Christ shall be raised and then cometh the end. And we're told that He shall have delivered up the kingdom unto the Father. What does that mean?

Well, it means what He's talking about here, that when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject to Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. In other words, when the dead in Christ are raised, then the earth goes through a time of great tribulation. Then at the end of the great tribulation period, the Old Testament saints are raised and the tribulation saints. They're still, if you please, part of the first resurrection. They're saved. They are raised to enter the millennium.

And now at the end of the millennium, the lost are raised. Now after the millennial kingdom and the lost are raised and judged, the Lord Jesus no longer reigns personally on this earth. He returns, you see. He'll deliver up the kingdom to the Father, that is, He goes back to His place in the godhead and He then will reign, of course, from that position. Verse 28 is saying that when all things shall be subdued unto Him, you see after the tribulation and the millennium and then that time when Satan's released for just a brief season, he's put down, the Great White Throne judgment, then eternity begins. When all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself, that is, He goes back to His place in the godhead, that God may be all in all. Now that's simply what it means, and I trust that that again a simple explanation may clarify this passage for you.

Guest (Male): Rounding out our questions today is this one from a listener in Hermosa Beach, California who writes, "What is the expression 'hating even the garment spotted by the flesh' in Jude 23 mean?"

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Probably I should turn to the epistle of Jude and pick up that expression because it is one that is a strange expression to be sure. It's found in the 23rd verse. It says, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire," and then it says, "hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Now the flesh here does not mean the meat that's on our bones, but it's used here in an ethical way. It speaks of that old nature that you and I have. Paul calls it the flesh at times. He calls it the carnal man, the old man, the carnal nature. And we're to hate even the garment spotted by the old nature. That is, that anything that the old nature has touched, that as a believer we should hate that sort of thing. That is the thought that is in that expression, I believe.

Guest (Male): Well, we hope that our program has sparked your interest, motivating you to dig deeper into the word of God yourself. For further information on these subjects as well as many others, contact us for our current resource catalog. We continue Dr. McGee's five-year study through the word of God on the Through the Bible radio program heard on this station on Monday. So we sure hope that you'll be able to join us. To help you along with your own studies of the scriptures, we offer Dr. McGee's notes and outlines which can be sent to you simply by asking to be on our mailing list. Or you can download them online at ttb.org. To be placed on our mailing list for notes or to ask for our resource catalog, give us a call at 1-800-65-BIBLE anytime. You can also find more information through our website at ttb.org or send your request by mail when you write to Questions and Answers. For those in the US, box 7100, Pasadena, California, 91109. In Canada, box 25325, London, Ontario, N6C 6B1. Now until next time, may God answer all your questions and solve all your problems. This program has been brought to you by the faithful friends and supporters of the Through the Bible radio network.