Thru the Bible - Questions & Answers

Host: Civil disobedience. Philosophers, theologians, and poets have all made their mark on this issue. But what is the Christian's perspective to be when it comes to the issue of civil disobedience? Well, stay with us and find out.

This is the question and answer program of the Thru the Bible Radio Network, and we're glad that you've joined us. Our Bible teacher is Dr. J. Vernon McGee. We begin today's questions with this one from a listener in Texas, and he writes: Twice now you have indicated that Acts 2:16 says, "This is like what the prophet Joel spoke about." But it seems to me that you are adding to scripture. Could you please explain?

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: May I say to you that I'd like very much to go to that scripture. You will recall that this is the Day of Pentecost and that these believers were filled with the Holy Spirit. They began to speak to this great company that was there. You see, Israel was scattered then throughout the Roman Empire and three times a year, all males came to Jerusalem to worship.

At this particular time, it was Pentecost, for that was one of the days. Passover and Tabernacles were the other two days that brought them to Jerusalem. These men spoke different languages, you see. A man, a Jew that lived over in Parthia, he spoke Parthian, and that was his native tongue. But on the Day of Pentecost, he heard these men preaching the gospel in his own tongue.

That was the great miracle of that day. There were no unknown tongues. They were speaking in tongues that could be understood. When these people went around, everybody that was there, and they were fishermen, not educated men, and they were speaking other languages, people were hearing the gospel in their tongue. They said, "What in the world is going on here?"

The crowd there said, "These men must be drunk." It’s unusual because they don't get drunk in the morning over there. By the way, that wouldn't be Los Angeles, I'll tell you. They start here early. But there, they were not quite as civilized as we are, so they didn't start drinking until the afternoon.

Peter began by saying to them in the great sermon that he gave: He says, "But these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days." Now, may I say to you, the important word there is this pronoun, "that."

What does it refer to? There are two ways of interpreting it. "This is like that," and that's the way that I interpret it. This man accuses me of adding to scripture. Now, I'll tell you how the others interpret it and how he interprets it: It’s "This is that which is the fulfillment of what the prophet Joel said." Now that, my friend, is really adding words to scripture, and he's not saying that.

He says, "This is that." It's like that. He doesn't give the impression at all that it's fulfillment, for he quotes the whole scripture to make it perfectly clear that he's not saying it's fulfillment. He continued in the prophecy and said, "I'll show wonders in heaven above, signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness." Well, may I say to you, that was not fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost at all.

Nobody there questioned it. So, it couldn't be in fulfillment of that. It is similar to that. You see, he's talking to a group of religious rulers who know the Old Testament. He quotes for them a passage that all of them there knew. I have a notion everybody in the crowd knew this passage of scripture from Joel.

In the last days, he says, "Well, don't say these men are drunk. It's in the morning. People don't get drunk at that time. After all, you believe that there's coming a day when men are going to speak like this. Well, this is like that. This is not unreasonable." That is the thing he's saying. So, you have to determine what "that" means here. You're going to have to add to scripture, I don't care what interpretation, because "that" has to refer to something.

Host: Our next question comes to us from a listener in Portland, Oregon, who writes: Would you please explain what the Christian position should be concerning civil disobedience?

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: We have been brought up in this country under a nation that is said to be under God, that he's the final authority. Our laws were based on his laws: laws concerning murder, theft, lying, and adultery. Those were the things that had to do with the law of God. We were never faced until recent years with the question of civil disobedience.

In other words, we followed the injunction of both Paul and Peter. They said that we are to be obedient unto the powers that be, because the powers that be are ordained of God, and we are to obey them. Well, as long as they're ordained of God, and that means put in office of God, and up at the top that you have God's law as the basis of our laws, then you and I are in duty bound to obey those laws because we are finally obeying God when we do that.

But suppose the state does not follow that and turns from God's laws, and laws are passed that are contrary to God's law. Who is the Christian to obey, God or man? Now, that's causing a great deal of discussion right now for the very simple reason that our nation has changed from a law-abiding nation, that is, the laws based upon God's law.

Today, judges and legislators are doing their thing. They're doing what they think is right according to their judgment, and God has been left out of the picture altogether. Along the way, laws are beginning to come into effect that are actually contrary to God's law. Now, what is the Christian to do? Up at the top, when God's at the top, then it's quite clear we're to obey God.

But when it's a question of the state and God and they're in conflict, who is the Christian to obey? I've been reading with a great deal of interest Francis Schaeffer's book on *A Christian Manifesto*. He now gives the bottom line. The top line, if God's at the top, we're to obey God. He would say that.

Now he says the bottom line is, at a certain point, there is not only the right but the duty to disobey the state. Now let me tell you, that sounds like a very radical statement that he's making. But when the state becomes a godless state, ours is fast becoming that. We've absolutely rejected all Bible ethics, all of the Bible system of morality. That's all been turned down now, and man is making his own.

You can be sure of one thing: when man makes his own, it's contrary to God. Therefore, as long as the state is making the laws that are based upon God's law, then the Christian is to obey the law. But when the state now is making laws that are contrary to God's law, what is the Christian to do?

The Supreme Court said it's all right to have abortions and that the state is to pay for them. Well, I resist that very definitely. May I say to you, that's murder. I've been saying that for years, long before I heard any other voice on radio say anything about it. I've been saying it. I have tapes in which I said it 30 years ago, that an abortion is murder. I don't care how you slice it, and I don't care how you look at it, it's murder.

Therefore, it's contrary to God's law. Therefore, I have felt that no Christian should use that law at all. I resent having to pay taxes, and I pay it under protest, knowing that we're paying for that sort of thing today. That is something that is absolutely, I think, contrary to God's law.

Now I'm going to say something that may startle some of you today that are very comfortably sitting on the sidelines doing nothing today and not lifting your voice today in behalf of God. We live in a day of compromise, and the preacher today that preaches on nice little subjects about marriage and love, he's not going to get in trouble. But he better stay off the subject that I'm on right now.

I want to cite you to some instances in history. Now, I told you that Francis Schaeffer says the bottom line is that at a certain point, there is not only the right but the duty to disobey the state. That's the reason that I very carefully have supported my Mennonite brethren up in this state and back in Kansas at the time.

They do not believe in warfare, and they would not register, or they registered under protest and they were assigned other duties. Well, they do not believe that they should go to war. I think they're wrong in their position, but I want to say this: I'll defend it, and I'll defend it here on radio. That's their right, because in their book, they're putting God first.

Now, the Roman Empire, you will remember, persecuted Christians. Why did they persecute Christians? Well, when the Roman Empire persecuted Christians, we look back and say that was religious persecution. But from the Roman government side, it was not religious persecution at all. It was civil disobedience on the part of the Christians.

You know why? They didn't mind Christians worshipping Jesus. That was perfectly all right. But they also would have to take a spoonful of incense down and worship the local Caesar, his image somewhere. The early church said, "We'd rather die than to do a thing like that because we worship only the Lord Jesus Christ."

You see, it was civil disobedience for the Roman government, but it was religious persecution as far as the church is concerned and as far as we're concerned today. So today, there may come a time when the government is going to say you're guilty of civil disobedience because they're putting in godless laws today.

They may even force Christians sometime to have an abortion because we'll move to that place. They are saying that marriage now is not necessary. I look for that to be removed today as anything legal. If they didn't get a few dollars for a marriage license today, I think they'd quit selling them. It's another source of revenue for those in office.

So that today, Christians are going to find themselves in a very difficult position because we're not in the same nation that we were 100 years ago or even 50 years ago. Now, let me mention some men in the past that paid a tremendous price, even gave their life, and they were guilty of civil disobedience. But it was religious persecution because the government put themselves above men altogether.

Now William Tyndale, he was an early translator of the Bible, and he advocated the supreme authority of the scripture over and against the state and the church. The very interesting thing is he was a man smart enough to stay out of their reach for a long time. But they finally got him and condemned him, tried him as a heretic, and he was executed on October the 6th, 1536.

John Bunyan was found guilty of breaking the king's law. He was arrested three times for preaching. He had no license to preach. Church of England didn't grant it to him. So, this man spent 12 years in an English jail because of that. May I say to you that everywhere the Reformation went, they found themselves in conflict with the state.

It was at that time that even John Knox—we think today of him being one of the reformers—but people don't seem to realize that this man, he absolutely was guilty of civil disobedience. I tell you, when Queen Mary came to the throne, she found an enemy in John Knox the like of which she'd never had before.

This man, he was arrested. John Knox spent two years as a galley slave, and when he finally landed as a refugee in England, he began to preach. No man was probably any more effective than John Knox was. So, he escaped to England out of Scotland and then he made his way over to Europe. This man, may I say to you, developed a theology of resistance to tyranny.

It was Samuel Rutherford that wrote a book that has had a tremendous effect recently. Francis Schaeffer quotes from him quite a bit, and I find that other men in this country are quoting quite a bit from him. He wrote what is called *Lex, Rex*: The Law and the Prince. He said that the law was above the king.

In other words, the king had to be obedient to his own law. You found that back yonder in Babylon, you remember, that the king had made a decree and he could not break that decree, that anyone that did not fall down before the image. It was a wrong law, but the king was subject to that law. Now today, we are getting men in office that are subject to nobody because they don't believe in God.

That's the reason today that I've been saying for years: it's dangerous for us to have godless men in office. They say that's their private lives and they can do as they please, and that's not the thing. Are they an effective legislator? Well, they can't be an effective legislator in this country if they're godless because, as the head of the history department several years ago in the University of Michigan, he says this country is falling into the hands of men and women who do not know anything of the beginning of this country, know nothing about the great values that the early founders of the state attempted to put in.

One was certainly to have a godly nation and godly men in office. We've moved away from that. Now, may I say to you that the time is coming, there's no question about that, when Christians are going to find themselves in a unique position: that is, do I obey the king or do I obey God? When there's a conflict—thank God up to the present there's not much of a conflict—but it's coming. When that conflict comes, the Christian is to be on the side of God.

Host: We come now to a question from a Selma, California listener. She writes: If all men in all ages were saved by grace through Jesus Christ, then how do you reconcile that with Galatians 4:4-5 and John chapter 1, verse 17?

Dr. J. Vernon McGee: Now, let me, in order to get the question fully before us, read to you Galatians 4:4-5: "But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

Now I will go back to John 1:17 and read it: "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." Now, may I move back and make this kind of a statement that I think should properly be made: It is true that God has saved men by mercy and by grace, but the basis of God's salvation in all ages has been the same. That is the death, the burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It is his death upon the cross that has made the basis for God redeeming sinners from the Garden of Eden all the way down to the New Jerusalem. In all ages and in under all circumstances, the basis is the same: the death of Christ. We believe that there's no other way of salvation. Now, there have been different methods of men appropriating that salvation, and the methods are obviously very different.

To begin with, Adam, you will recall, was clothed with the skins of animals. We're told that when he left the Garden of Eden, that there were placed there the cherubim that kept the way of life, kept it open, not closing it, but opening it. I think when Adam and Eve looked back to the garden, they saw the cherubim over the blood of a sacrifice and that the way to God was this way.

At least we know that Cain and Abel were instructed to bring to God a sacrifice and that Abel brought that little lamb, and that was his approach to God. May I say to you that Cain refused to come that way. It was Abel who by faith offered a more excellent sacrifice to God. Now, faith is a response to a revelation. Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

So, God had told them, and Cain disobeyed and Abel obeyed. He came by bringing a little lamb. Now, that was his response by faith to the death of Christ. Christ had not come. How much Abel understood, I do not know. I'm confident they understood a great deal more than we think they did. For the Lord Jesus said, "Abraham saw my day and rejoiced," you see.

Now, up to the cross of Christ, God saved men actually on credit. Now, that may sound very strange to you, but the scripture makes that very clear over, for instance, in the third chapter of Paul's epistle to the Romans. We're told in verse 25, "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God."

Now, the sins that are past are not your past sins or my past sins, but the sins before the cross. In other words, when Abraham or Abel or any back in the Old Testament brought a little sacrifice to God, a little lamb, and offered as a sacrifice, God saved them, but not because of the lamb. God saved them because the Lord Jesus was going to die on the cross. When he died on the cross, he paid the penalty for all those pre-cross sins, the sins that are past.

So that that was the basis. God never saved anyone by keeping the law because at the very heart of the Mosaic system was a sacrificial system, that Levitical priesthood that offered sacrifice after sacrifice. Why, that tabernacle and that brazen altar was a bloody thing. It was, in one sense, a terrible place.

I rather agree with the critics; there's nothing pretty or aesthetic about it. But there's nothing pretty about your sin or my sin. So, God saved man before the cross by the death of Christ. Since then, we don't bring a sacrifice; it's already been made, and we look back in faith to what the Lord Jesus has done. So that the basis, if you please, has been the death of Christ.

Now, John says in his epistle that the law was given by Moses. But the law never saved anyone. No one has ever been saved by keeping the law. But grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. That is, that opened up the way for God to save man back under the law who had brought the sacrifice in faith, you see.

And that's exactly what Paul meant when he wrote to the Galatians and said to them that in the fullness of time, God sent forth his Son. In other words, he's the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world. In view of that, God was able to save men back under the law, not by keeping the law, but by their faith in bringing a sacrifice, recognizing they were lawbreakers and sinners in God's sight, and they needed the grace of God and the mercy of God. And that was revealed fully in Jesus Christ.

Host: With that answer, we come to the end of another question and answer program. We hope that you've been stimulated by today's topics to find answers to your questions in God's word. If you'd like information on these issues and more, then contact us for our resource catalog, with numerous available resources by Dr. McGee.

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