New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Becky Brown: Hello everyone. It's Becky Brown. We are here today with Dr. Alice Benton, clinical psychologist, as well as Dr. Henry Cloud, who probably doesn't need any introduction except for that we've all been impacted by his wisdom over the years. Henry is a clinical psychologist. He is a New York Times best-selling author. Many of those books we have been changed by, but he's got a new one. It's called *Your Desired Future: Five Essential Steps That Take You Where You Want to Go*.

Henry, when I think about a desired future, there are so many people that want things, but they really don't know how to take a step towards it. So what's the biggest mistake when people try to achieve that goal of a desired future?

Dr. Henry Cloud: Probably the biggest mistake we all make is we go and work on it, but we're working on it in the way that we're wired, and we work on it in our own way. Most times, unless you already know how to fix it, if you're going to get a sandwich in the fridge, go solve that problem. You know how. You go do it and you work on it. But a lot of times, these difficult situations, we've tried everything we know. And so the biggest mistake is we try to solve it in our own image. That's what I said in the book. We do it the way we're wired, and usually something's missing if we're still stuck.

Becky Brown: So how do we figure out what's missing, Henry?

Dr. Henry Cloud: Well, that's why I wrote the book. You can get a copy at newlife.com. What I try to do in the book was to show that God has designed a path of how we get from where we are to where we want to go. That's why I call it your desired future. And there is a universal path, and people do it in different ways, but there is a path with certain ingredients that have to be present.

The first thing that it starts with is you've got to be honest about where you are. If we're going to go from here to there, have I really embraced here? Am I really looking at this and saying, I'm in pain, or I want something different? I want my marriage to be better. I want my kids to be better. I want my career to be better. I want to get undepressed. And really get honest about here is where I am. It's not working. But I don't want to stay here.

Then the first step is getting a clear desired future. What do I really want? There's got to be desire for that. It doesn't mean you know how. It doesn't mean you think necessarily that you can do it, but we've got to know what we want. And we've got to come out of denial and minimizing, explaining it away, and externalizing and having false hope and all this stuff and say, I'm stuck. And that's just true. And I've got to find a better way.

So that's the first step. And then get a really clear vision. That's what your brain does. It's up here, and I want to go over there. The first thing God wired us to do, we're created in His image, and we can imagine what a good marriage would look like. We can imagine what it would feel like to be undepressed. And when you begin to do that, all sorts of systems start happening in your head to begin to organize. Is that possible? How can I do that? And you begin to get moving, but you've got to know what you want, and that's really important.

Becky Brown: I love it. Well, we're going to talk about that at length because, even though we will give you the book if you want to buy it, but I know Henry, you've got so many great stories about how people can achieve their desired future. And we want people to get unstuck and move forward in their lives. We'll be right back after this.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Becky Brown: Welcome back. We are delighted to share our special guest Dr. Henry Cloud, even though Henry you are the original with New Life, so we are glad that you are back and Dr. Alice Benton.

I love this whole concept of a desired future, and I'm thinking about ways that people get stuck in their reality. You mentioned before the break about how when somebody can think a little bit differently, I don't want to be depressed, or I would like to have a better connection with my family. What are some of the ways that you talk about in the book where people can get moving forward to that desired future? Whether you want to go over the five steps again, it's all up to you.

Dr. Henry Cloud: Well, it's interesting. There's nothing close to the creation that God did of a human being. There's nothing close. He says, look guys, this is read Psalm 8. It's incredible what He's done. And the reason is we're created in His image. We're like Him. We just don't have the omnis. We're omniscient, we're not omniscient. We're potent, we have power, but we're not omnipotent. But we're created in His image.

And what He did was He the most incredible model of how we get from here to there is a human being because we're designed to do it like He does. So what's the first thing you do? You have the ability to get a vision. It happens in your head. But the problem is a lot of people's visions stay stuck in their head, and that's just a fantasy. It's just wow, wouldn't it be nice? Well, yes, it would be nice, but the second step has to happen.

What your brain does, the way God designed it, is the brain's not going anywhere by itself. It engages the talent that's needed to help it get there. It sends out emails to the legs. You're going to need the legs to walk over there. I'm going to need a couple of eyes to focus. And it brings to the party the help that we're going to need to get there. That's the way God designed everything. Different gifts that people bring to our situation, and we've got to engage them.

All right, well now I'm ready to go. How am I going to get there? Well, I think I'll call a taxi. Oh, that doesn't really fit this context. What? And finally, we come up with number three, a strategy. And we decide, okay, I'm going to walk. And now we can get moving.

But that strategy has a plan to it. It's got specific activities. I'm going to take so many steps at these intervals in that direction. And you know your brain, as soon as you decide to walk across the room, it's already designed a measurement and accountability system. So when you start walking, it asks the question, am I doing what I said I was going to do? And if we are, it keeps walking. But if you wander over to the window and get distracted, it says, dude, you've got to get back on track and keep walking.

And so those five steps are going to be universal in solving a depression, a marriage, building a business, increasing revenues, getting your kids to school on time. Whatever it is, those steps have got to be there. And our problem is we're not always focused or aware of or even good at all of them. We're not. And that's fine. That's where help can help us, but we've got to get above it and say, am I doing the essential components?

Becky Brown: It reminds me of how many times we've talked to people who are struggling with addiction and we tell them you have to go to 90 meetings in 90 days. Your vision is I want to get clean and sober, but this is the direction that you have to go. And we always want to make it something different, don't we?

Dr. Henry Cloud: Oh my gosh, we always want to make it something different. God said, here's the way it works. Take all this fruit, go do this, multiply. That's the plan. Go do this. And then Satan comes along and says, oh you can skip all that. You can have the easy route. Just you could be like God. And so we want to dial 1-800 instantaneous get rich or lose 1,000 pounds. But we do, we do want to go a different way.

And in a fallen world, because we're broken, here's the problem. To get different, we've got to do different. And anytime we start to take a step to something new, by definition, the brain registers that as an error. That's not the way it works. That's not the way I've always done it. And so when something registers an error, naturally, and you've got to get used to this, it's going to make you a little anxious.

New and different is a little activating in your limbic system, and you're going to have a little anxiety. Oh can I open up to a counselor? Or can I tell somebody? Or can I really? And so what happens when we get anxious? The default position is we fight it or flight it. We push against it. No, no, I'm not going to do that. Or we withdraw or we freeze. And so you've got to normalize the anxiety of taking that first step.

Becky Brown: I love that. Alice, you were talking about you had started reading Henry's book, and it prompted you. I know you're laughing because I was thinking of you when he was talking about that. Just share a little bit about your just the process of doing what he says.

Dr. Alice Benton: Well, Henry, your books have always done this for me. They spur me to action. And there was a phrase you used in this new book about wasting energy or misspending, misplacing energy and getting laser-focused on how we use our limited time, attention, and energy to move us to that desired future state.

So as I was reading your book, I was feeling so pumped up and fired up, and it spurred me to go work out. It spurred me to think through the food I'd eaten yesterday and does that move me to the state that I want? No, not all the time I make choices that get me off my path. But you have an inspirational way of writing that fuels me to want to do what I'm reading in your books.

Dr. Henry Cloud: Well, you're very kind. But you're sharing something that every human being, all of us have, that we do need some kind of inspiration. Because our brain and our experience tells us a lot of times it's never been different. I'm stuck. This is the way it is. And hope deferred makes the heart sick, the Bible says. And so we get demotivated.

But that can change, and it does change for people every single day when just a testimony, just a model of somebody that says, no, it's possible. Here's a path. Here's how to do it. I've done it. I've done it with others. I've seen others.

When somebody goes through a recovery meeting, 90 meetings in 90 days, they're drunk when they go in. They're not sober in that first meeting. But they get inspired even just a smidgen by some guy sitting across the circle that says, okay, well, I'm 10 days sober now. And the new one goes, whoa, how did you do that? I can't make it through the day. And then somebody else says, I'm 10 years sober.

And then we've got to get out of our circle and begin. The number one factor of anything changing is not motivation because motivation is going to wane. It's important, but it's not going to hold you there. The number one factor is the belief that it can be done. And I'm not going to walk across the room if I don't think it's possible. And we get stuck in our own circle of hopelessness. Hopelessness. I don't have hope. I don't believe this can happen.

But God enters into our closed circle and says there is hope. And He brings people to show us that there's hope. But you stay in your closed circle, and it's like being locked in a phone booth. It's how long has it been since we had phone booths? You have no idea there's cell phones out there. Come out of the booth, baby. You've got to get out of the booth.

Becky Brown: Well, but you mention in there about how this also applies to couples. And so many times couples get stuck in a trap that they think nothing's going to help. We're just going to swirl around the drain until we die. I mean, when you think about how can a couple institute these steps into their marriage, into their family?

Dr. Henry Cloud: I think on a previous show I told the example of I was working with a couple one time and they come in and said, so what's the problem? And they lowered you know, our finances or our kids or whatever the issue is. They start talking. Within five minutes, they're just going at each other, and they're in that loop that you're talking about.

And I listened to that for about five minutes. It's like you're watching a tennis match back and forth, back and forth. And finally, I said, stop. Just shut up. Quit. Silence. And they looked at me and I said, what is your vision for your marriage? And they kind of looked at me like, a vision? What do you mean? A vision for our marriage? We want to be good. I go, well what's it look like? What's a good one look like? I want you to paint the picture for me. And they said, well we've never really thought. Well, I want you to paint it. We're going to paint it right now. How are we going to get somewhere we don't even know where we're going? What do you want?

And got pretty specific about what that would feel like and be like. And it was incredible. They were able to do it once we started working them. And then the next step, I said, well what you described on a scale of 1 to 10, that's a 10 marriage, and that's great. That's a great vision, desired future. The problem is you both act like threes, and you can't have three behavior in a 10 marriage. So we've got to talk about a path to where how you're being with each other fits your vision. And that's going to be a process, it's going to be work, but I guarantee you it's possible.

Becky Brown: I love that. Because I don't think a lot of couples past the wedding, they have a vision for their wedding or maybe the bride has the vision for the wedding, but very rarely do they take that beyond what's this wedding going to look like day one, day two, day 14?

Dr. Henry Cloud: Have you ever seen anybody ever been to a wedding? And you're sitting there watching this bride and groom and they're at the altar and they're leaning to each other. Have you ever seen this happen? And one of them looks at the other and says, looks in those eyes, says, I can't wait till I hate your guts and we only talk through our attorneys. No, they they haven't thought about how they're going to keep that bliss going and deepen it and have the roots and the grounding that's going to make that work. But other people do it. Other people do it. So it is possible.

Becky Brown: I also think that even fits with because we get calls from people who are living together that aren't married. And then all of a sudden they're miserable because relationships are challenging. I think that concept of vision is so important. And you refer to the fact that God has a vision for our lives, but if we don't buy into it, we're really going to be trying to figure it out all along the way. And I think that that's where the problem of lack of vision, the Proverbs says lack of vision, people perish, right?

Dr. Henry Cloud: Yeah, I often refer to Moses in Deuteronomy 6. He says when your children ask you what's the meaning of all this stuff that God has given us, all these ways, all these commandments? Tell them this. We were slaves in Egypt. Our marriage was horrible. God brought us out with miracles and signs and wonders and delivered us. And He gave us these ways so that we might walk in them and always prosper and be restored.

And those two Hebrew words there that He promises happen with God's ways. The prosper word means thriving in a 360-degree way that life is working. But it doesn't omit there's going to be problems because He includes a second word of that means to be restored. And so God's ways are there to help us thrive. But when bad times come, help us to get back on track and get restored.

And so at some point, we all will hit the wall and hit the bottom of our ways. And we've got to wake up and say, okay, my ways are not working. And that's called surrender. And then we ask God, Romans 12:1, we make ourselves a living sacrifice. Now the problem with a living sacrifice is it keeps crawling off the altar. We stay surrendered, and He will work it out with us as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. For God's work within you to will His good purposes for you. And it's a daily surrender, but we need help to do it for sure.

Becky Brown: Amen. We are just so grateful for the wisdom and the reminder that God does have a plan. We're talking today with Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. Alice Benton about Henry's book, *Your Desired Future: The Five Essential Steps That Take You Where You Want to Go*. You can get a copy at newlife.com or you can give us a call and we'll take your call on the show today. But we want to have the desire of what God has for our lives, and this book has been instrumental.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Becky Brown: Welcome back. It's Becky Brown. And our special guest today is Dr. Henry Cloud along with Dr. Alice Benton. And we are going to go to the calls. We're going to talk with Daniel. He's calling us from Las Vegas, listens to us online. Hello, Daniel. What's your question for Henry and Alice today?

Daniel: Hi. My question is I drink every once in a while. I listened to one of your programs where a lady named Grace had a problem with lust. And the other guy said that his wife didn't have a libido and he really cared for her. And I could relate to that. And my wife just feels like it's over, she has nothing to do. But I don't know if I drink every once in a while because I'm lonely and I'm trying to hide something. And I did check into a clinic, and I'm doing good. But it's something I hate to do. Every once in a while I'll fall.

But it doesn't seem like I've got that connection with my wife. It's like she's happy just with her iPad and walking in the morning. And I don't watch any kind of TV or radio or nothing like that. I found your station, and I read a lot of Scripture, a lot of edifying things for my mind, and the radio station that just helps people. And I didn't know if there was anything of it to me or just not being happy, or is there something I could get to the root of or what?

Becky Brown: Okay. Henry, Alice.

Dr. Henry Cloud: How much are you drinking when you say you drink sometimes but then you notice it's a problem? Usually, when people just drink sometimes, they don't identify it as problematic. What are we really talking about?

Daniel: Like say on Sundays I'll have four to six shots. I buy four to six shots, but I just don't like it. I don't like the way I feel. And I asked the doctor when I went to the doctor and asked him if I could get some of that Antabuse so when I feel like that I could take it. And he goes, "Oh, no, you've got to go see a therapist."

And then that was on Monday. And then Tuesday I checked into a virtual like an alcoholic place. I've been here once before because I don't want to run into that route no more. But it had to be something. And it's not like I was drinking a bunch. I go over all my stuff over here and I just want to know if I talk to my wife about anything, it's almost like a competition or when I was a teenager this or that. I can't live in the past. I want to live in the future. I want to live in the present.

I read a lot of Scripture, a lot of books that help me and make me understand who I am in Christ. And I could even send her a song on YouTube or whatever, like something nice for her like she's a lady. And she'll just like do these things, "How do you like this old stuff?" She don't understand, she don't get the concept like a kid. And I can't say nothing to her about it. It's just like a lonely feeling.

And I could have a friend that I haven't talked to in years and all that, she'll send me something like an Etta James song or something, where I could relate to her just the understanding of the music, of the story. And mine just doesn't seem to I think she's always been like that. She never cared for intimacy and stuff like that. So I can't blame her. But she did get pregnant when we were teenagers. I got married, did the right thing. And I'm glad. I got a good son and a good daughter. They're in their 40s.

But I stopped drinking for like six years, seven years until my daughter and her husband moved in and my wife treated me not very good. And the way I seen that guy treating my daughter where she'd work and do nothing, it tore me apart. Now they're divorced, they moved out. And that's when I started drinking. And I checked in last year, stayed 30 days. And I'm doing good. I go to my Camel Club. But I just drink every once in a while.

Becky Brown: Okay, Daniel. Yeah, you've got a good perception of what's happening, but it's not what you want. That's basically where the challenge is right now.

Daniel: Okay, what does that mean, though?

Dr. Alice Benton: Well, Daniel, I think that there is, you know, Henry talks about this in his book, that one of his steps is adaptation and problem-solving. And your wife has been disconnected from you perhaps throughout your entire marriage, and maybe some of her pain even dates back to that teenage pregnancy, despite the fact that you stayed by her, you two got married, you have another child together.

And I respect that you have checked in about this. You asked for Antabuse. That's amazing, Daniel. So few people do that because as you know, it makes us sick if we consume alcohol. It takes a high level of motivation to ask for Antabuse. So you have a good strength within you.

What I wonder is if you've been in an ongoing chronic process of change, or if you've dabbled here and there in things like the alcohol rehab that I think you're going to, because inviting your wife and wondering if she would be willing to get into that structured help, adaptation, problem-solving so your marriage can become better than it has ever been. I want to find out from you about that on the other side of the break.

Becky Brown: It is hard when you have a vision for what you want but nothing's working. And Daniel, that's what you're talking about, and you're willing to do some things, but I just don't think that it's clear yet. When we come back after the break, we'll get the answer to what Alice just asked and hear from Henry regarding what you can do as you're thinking about this, as you're in this different stage of life where you want more for your marriage, for your family, for your own life. We're glad that you called, Daniel, and we're going to be right back after this break.

Becky Brown: Hello. It's Becky Brown. I am so excited to launch our 99 For The One partner initiative. Every day we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. And it reminds us of the story in Luke 15 where the shepherd leaves the 99 to go rescue the one.

And you know we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 For The One is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/9941.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Becky Brown: Welcome back. We're talking with Daniel, who's calling us from Las Vegas and currently in treatment for alcohol and just trying to have an understanding about why his marriage isn't connecting and just where alcohol fits into that. Now Alice, you asked Daniel a question and we'll just continue.

Dr. Alice Benton: Daniel, I wondered if you've ever asked your wife to get into structured help like counseling, therapy with you.

Daniel: Oh yes, I asked her. I used to do the chapel service for the military base over here, and we went to a marriage counselor, and she seemed to like that. But if I tell her something, I'm not the alcoholic, you're the alcoholic. It's always a battle. She's had a lot of problems with her family growing up and

Dr. Alice Benton: And Daniel, even though you don't drink a whole lot and you don't drink very frequently, your consumption of alcohol is still frightening for her. Is that right?

Daniel: Yes, because her dad drank and her brother drank and my family drank. And she's like it scares her, which I know I shouldn't, but it's almost like I don't go, I just go and lay down or something like that. But I don't want to do that. I don't want to waste my time with alcohol. So when I went to the doctor on Monday, I said, I just need some Antabuse. He thought I was crazy. So I checked in this clinic, and the clinic goes the doctor goes, "No, I'll give it to you, Daniel." He couldn't believe me that it's not that I want to drink. It's I don't know if I'm just lonely.

And it's not like I'm drinking a bunch. I go over all my stuff over here and I just want to know if I talk to my wife about anything, it's almost like a competition or when I was a teenager this or that. I can't live in the past. I want to live in the future. I want to live in the present. And I read a lot of Scripture, a lot of books that help me and make me understand who I am in Christ. And I could even send her a song on YouTube or whatever, like something nice for her like she's a lady.

Dr. Alice Benton: Well, Daniel, it sounds like you're getting on the right track because in his book, Henry talks about getting a vision. And your vision is having a unified marriage where your wife is willing to open up to you. You've identified that although you don't drink a whole lot because of how alcohol affected her family of origin, maybe any drinking is scary for her. And she perhaps has been waiting for you to clean up this part of your life.

I understand drinking out of loneliness. It's a way to medicate. You probably do feel better for a while, but your wife still has the sense that you're drinking no matter how well you hide it from her. And so your willingness to get ongoing help to get sober and to stay sober is part of the safety I think she needs to be willing to open up to you.

Daniel: Right.

Dr. Henry Cloud: Daniel, Daniel. What you're not doing is not the problem. Right? So great.

Daniel: I didn't hear what you said.

Dr. Henry Cloud: I said you're not going to nightclubs and not going to bars and all that. Great. What you're not running out in the traffic either. What you're not doing is not the problem. The problem is the patterns that are going on that are going on that are hurting you.

And you've identified them very well. I love the way that you're not in denial about that. But I'm going to just reiterate what Alice said. I love it that you're reading the books and you're reading the Bible and all of that, but I'm going to tell you the hard truth here. It's the truth for all of us.

Jesus said that you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free. But nobody ever quotes the first part of that verse. What He says is, if you hold to my teachings, then you shall know the truth. And we're not going to know the truth in the way that He designed it to be known just from learning about it. The Pharisees did that.

It's doing what it says. And what Alice has said to you is exactly what Jesus said, that there's teachings in that Bible that you're reading and in the books you're reading that says exactly what she said, that you've got to take the first step and reconnect to a body of people. That's how God describes the people around us that bring the gifts to help us.

And you can't look, you're trying to grow a tree, or you're trying to grow a plant with good fruit, which the marriage is going to be the fruit of that. But you don't grow a tree by dipping it in the dirt every now and then. It's got to be planted. So I'm going to just reiterate what Alice said. And usually when somebody goes in a recovery program, they go right out of that program into sometimes daily meetings. I've treated people before who needed 90 meetings in 90 days. I've treated people that they needed three meetings a day for 90 days. And then they got strong enough to where it was I don't know what the right number is for you, but here's the formula I want you to hear. What's not working is not enough. So you've got to add to the program. And that's what Alice has very eloquently said to you. And I agree with her.

Dr. Alice Benton: And Daniel, this standard we're calling you to is unfair. Especially if you're functioning well in your life, so why does your wife have a problem with just a couple of shots on a Sunday? And I'm going to share something personal, Daniel. There was infidelity in my family of origin. And so I have a hypersensitivity to it now in my marriage years later. My husband chooses to avoid even the appearance of sin because my heart is overly sensitive to fears of infidelity. It's not fair to him that I carry that wound and so that every so often I have to bring up, "Will you give me reassurance? I heard about another infidelity and I'm scared of whether it will happen between the two of us." He's innocent in this. But because he loves me, he's willing to help treat some of the wounds that were caused in my family of origin. You have a similar calling with your wife. It's not fair that all this is being asked of you. It was her dad. It was her brother that did the damage. You didn't do that level of damage. But your willingness to go an extra mile, which God calls us to do, is what could very well bring your wife out of her hiding and her withdrawal from you.

Becky Brown: You know, Henry, that reminds me of how you've talked about these steps with couples and the mutually agreed-upon expectations. And sometimes those expectations need to be brought to actual language because many times they're not talking about it.

Dr. Henry Cloud: Yeah. And what Alice has just said, it's so important and so difficult because a lot of times you hear the other person say, "Well, you're trying to control me by wanting that expectation." And Paul outlines this in the Scripture, that you might have freedoms, but so you don't make somebody else stumble, you're willing to give up certain freedoms.

Now, there are problems in some marriages where there is a control dynamic and that's used to control another person. But that's not what Alice is talking about. What she's talking about is the beginning, the first step of what's going to be the real power here for the marriage, not just stopping the drinking and getting sober. But stopping the drinking is not the end game. Stopping the drinking is the door that's going to lead into growth for you.

When people go into recovery, getting sober, all that does is open the door so they can begin to live life in a sober way. And there are dry drunks walking around that don't change their patterns. I want to see your loneliness resolved. I mean, 90 meetings in 90 days would solve that one immediately. You would have a group to go to every day. You would no longer be lonely.

And so look, you can't grow when your brain is wet. The wet brain can't even process what we need to do. Yes, you've got to get sober. But that's not the end game. The end game is Peter says this in the New Testament to wives who have unbelieving husbands and they say, "Well, don't try to change them by talking them into it. Do it without a word." Become so healthy yourself that they want to join you in that. And right now, she's stuck in some things that you mentioned, and you're inviting her to life sometimes, and there are barriers to that. But as you truly begin to get unlonely, get thriving, get undepressed and all of that, that's going to be the first chance that an invitation becomes attractive.

Becky Brown: I love what you just said, though, Henry. What you're not doing is not the problem. And so many times, that's where our defenses are. "I'm not doing this. You're saying all the things." It's just not How's that working for you?

Dr. Henry Cloud: I remember one time, I don't know which comedian it was. I shouldn't even mention the names, but he said he went to a prison to visit some of his friends from the neighborhood who were in prison. And he visited one of them in the prison. The prisoner's saying, "Well, I didn't kill anybody." And he said to that prisoner, "What do you want, a cookie?" Like yes, that's what you didn't do. But and all of us are like that. I'm not getting on Daniel's case, but we've got to look at what we're doing is not working and it's time to add more.

Becky Brown: I love that. And Daniel, we are glad that you called, glad that you're in treatment. I would invite you and your wife to our Intimacy and Marriage Intensive where you guys can work through some of these things, too. But we're glad you called.

Daniel: I love your honesty.

Becky Brown: Me too. That's going to be fuel for your growth. I agree. And maybe you and your wife can join us at our Intimacy and Marriage Intensive. But we're glad you called. We're going to be right back after this break.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Becky Brown: Welcome back. I just want to call your attention to the fact that we have a matching gift campaign. We had a group of donors that put a seed of $250,000. So that means that every dollar that you give up to that amount will be doubled. And it will make a difference in the lives of so many people, and it helps New Life continue to do the work that we've done for close to 40 years. So I want to encourage you, if you want to be part of the match, I think you do, you can go to newlife.com/match, or you can text the word MATCH to 28950, or call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Wherever you are listening, know that your gift will be doubled and it will make such a difference in the lives of so many people. Thanks in advance for being part of what God's doing through New Life.

Henry, in this last segment, I just want to circle back to what you were saying about having that vision, having the strategy, checking into the resources. The whole process is part of the whole plan that will benefit. But what is the one mistake that people make when they're trying to achieve a goal? If there's just one mistake.

Dr. Henry Cloud: Yeah, I was going to say, Becky, I was doing a parenting event one time. This lady raised her hand and said, "If you were to raise successful kids, what's the one thing you would tell parents?" And I said, "Well, it's not one thing." But she goes, "Yeah, but if you what would the one thing?" I said, "There's not one thing." She said, "But if you just said one?" I said, "I'd teach them to grow up not asking stupid questions."

Seriously, I said, okay, pick one: water, air, or food? Pick one. See, there's ingredients. And God has what's the one organ in your body that is the most important? You can't do that.

But now I understand what you're saying. But let me, if there were one thing, this would be it. Because this is the one thing that is a problem with the human race. We got disconnected from the Source in Genesis 3, and we became the source for ourselves. We had the wish to be God. God is our Source, and He has resources from Himself, including people and wisdom and knowledge that we don't have and all that. But we disconnected to where we became the source. And so the one thing, if you want to say that, is that we think we're going to get out of this on our own.

And we're not. We're not. We've got to bend the knee to Him and bend the knee to His resources to source us. So get out of your closed circle. And it's hard to open the door. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man hears me and opens the door, I will come in." And part of His coming in is that He brings an army with Him. So open the door. Open the door.

Becky Brown: I heard one of our co-hosts, JJ West, says this all the time that we get confused about God, but God doesn't get confused. And we think that we're Him. And that's what you just said, Henry, that we think that we're the ones that are going to figure this out. And what He's saying is "Come to me."

Dr. Henry Cloud: "Come to me." Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

Dr. Alice Benton: Henry, in your book, you also we can apply these skills to parenting. And I think there's a story I hope I can hear about Lucy, your daughter, who became a singer and a songwriter. How does a parent apply these steps to help our children towards their goals?

Dr. Henry Cloud: Well, the story was Lucy was always a she sang from when she was walking. And she always carried around when she learned learned to write a little book and she would be writing songs and making up songs and recording them on her computer. Well, one day when she was about 16 or so, she came into the kitchen and said, "Dad, how do people become singer-songwriters?"

And I said, "Why do you ask?" She said, "That's what I want to do." And I mean, I knew she loved me, I did, but I never had heard her put it like that. And I said, "Lucy, that's amazing. I'll show you." And I went out and got my whiteboard and dragged it in the kitchen. She rolls her eyes and goes, "Oh great, another life lesson from Dad."

But I put up there I said, "The first thing you've got to have, number one, is you've got to have a vision. What tell me your vision." And she oh my gosh, she laid it out. It was incredible. Very specific what she wanted her career and life to look like. I said, "Great. Next thing you've got to do, number two, is you've got to engage the talent that it's going to take to get you there." And she looked at me and she said, "Well, you and Mom said I have talent." I said, "Lucy, I'm not talking about your talent. I'm talking about other talent that's going to help you get there."

Immediately she got it. She said, "Oh, well, I need a new guitar teacher. The one I've got is not helping me get there." I said, "All right, well find a new guitar teacher." She said, "And I need to start playing in front of people. How do you get auditions?" I go, "I don't know, but we're going to reach out to some community playhouses and the school plays at school and we'll find out." And then she said, "And how do you produce a record? I want to launch a record." She said, "I can't do it on GarageBand," a program on her computer.

I said, "I don't know." And then she got lucky. Kevin Jonas, the Jonas Brothers, Kevin Jonas, the dad that produced them, heard her sing. He said, "I haven't heard that since Demi Lovato. I want to help you make a record." And he came.

The point is she went through the whole program that I have in the book. We went through the steps and we worked it. Well, not too long after that, the girl releases a song that Apple Music, Spotify, Sirius XM, all the platforms, New Artist to Watch, and CBS Television and the CW Network bought the song for television shows. And this past not too a few months ago, she released another song that she was it was nominated for Song of the Year in some writers' association. But the point is she didn't know how to get there. And God has designed a universal path that's just throughout the Scriptures and throughout all successes that He wants us to follow. So that's kind of what the book is about.

Becky Brown: I love that. Can you imagine having Henry Cloud as your dad? Pulling out that whiteboard?

Dr. Henry Cloud: Oh, you would be in so much therapy. I told them from when they were little, "God, I've already put the money aside. We're going to start now and tell me where" Seriously, we used to have family meetings. And sort of ward off the future, right?

We would sit down, everybody would have to go around the table. And I'd say, "Okay, so everybody's going to be on the hot seat. So tell tell Mom what she did this week that you loved, that you want her to do more of. What she did that you didn't like, and we need to talk about that. You don't want her to do that. And then what's she not doing that you'd like to see her do?" And we'd all have to go around the table and do that. So hopefully I warded off 80% of that. I'm sure they'll find some shrink someday to complain to.

Becky Brown: I have said the same thing. I've said the same thing to my kids. I'll pay for whatever therapy you need because I was your mom. Because we've sat in those counseling rooms and heard from so many people the impact of their parents and family. It's just part of

Dr. Henry Cloud: And the Bible's pretty clear about this. It says, "Confess your sins and the sins of your fathers." You're walking in the traditions of your elders, not the oracles of God. And we have to name those, and we have to forgive, and we have to name them, and we have to change the family tree in the parts of it that aren't working. I want my kids to do that.

Becky Brown: I love that. Thank you so much, Henry, for putting this out into the world because it will make such a difference to so many people, as so many of your books have. It really is an amazing gift that God has gifted you with being able to communicate simple truths in such a profound way. And I know Alice and I both are recipients of that, as well as millions of other people. Thank you, Henry, for being with us today. Thanks, Alice, for joining us. And thank you, listeners. If you'd like to get a copy, and I know you do, you can go to newlife.com and we have copies there for you. We're grateful that you're listening, and we're grateful that you are doing what you can to experience your new life. We'll be back next time.

New Life: Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.