New Life LIVE

Voiceover: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Hello and welcome to New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez, on this Tuesday that feels like a Monday for many of us. We are going to be in the studio for two hours, and we'd love to hear from you today at 1-800-229-3000.

Let's talk about the grief, the anxiety, the depression, the family issues you're going through. We've got Dr. Jill Hubbard here today. She's a clinical psychologist, also licensed marriage and family therapist. Chris Williams, guys, it's so good to be with you today. Chris, what's on your mind to start us off?

Chris Williams: I think last time I was here, I was talking about how I'm high maintenance. A lot of people may not think that of me on the surface, but you can ask my wife. There's a lot I've got to do every day to hit my center line, hit a good spot. These are daily habits, so to speak.

There is this line in the hymn "Come Thou Fount." One of the lines in that old hymn—and I love the old hymns, by the way. They're just so rich and incredible. This is a jab at current worship music, but they also don't feel they have to repeat the same line 15 times to get the point across.

Tell us how you really feel, Chris. But with that said, it says, "Tune my heart to sing thy grace." I like that line because if we think of our hearts—I think of my heart as a stringed instrument. We even say, "pulling on the heartstrings." Anyone who's played a stringed instrument understands how often a stringed instrument gets out of tune.

It happens every day. Sometimes, if you play it too much in a single session or timeframe, you've got to tune it multiple times if you're playing a concert. Certainly, if you pick it up every day. I know this is true for me: my heart gets out of tune every single day.

One of the ways it gets out of tune is that I have this really harsh inner critical voice. I think a lot of us do; many of us, if not all of us, do. The critical voice is trying to get me to do something, but it may make a short-term correction while having long-term consequences.

One of the hardest and most important things I've got to learn to do every day is that when I tune my heart, following the advice in "Come Thou Fount," I want to first tune it to God's grace. I find that one of the most important things we can do is that when we find ourselves really wanting to do better, or feel better, or be in a better place, our critical voice may again give it a bit of a bump to correct it, but we aren't going to make the full shift into being part of God's heart, being part of our "best selves," if we don't start with grace.

Again, we don't sacrifice truth in that; we hold them together. But tuning my heart to sing God's grace and to be a part of God's grace, I find, is a daily task. Last time I talked about part of that is taking out the trash of the junk that we carry in our lives. But part of that too is hearing the voice of God's love, acceptance, assurance, grace—all of those things really do make your heart shift, and our heartstrings start to get in tune. We just show up sounding a lot better in life.

Brian Perez: In-tune instruments sound so much better. We can help you become an in-tune instrument when you call into New Life LIVE today. No matter what it is that you're going through, we can help you. We've already got a few people on the phone and we'll get to you in just a little bit. We'll begin with Angela and Cindy; we see you there too. We're going to be in the studio for two hours, so come on, grab an open line. We're going to talk to you in just a little bit here on New Life LIVE. The number to call is 1-800-229-3000. We'll be right back.

Voiceover: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: If you are having a struggle, a battle with sexual integrity, we want to let you know that you can break free from that at the Every Man's Battle weekend intensive. It starts this Friday, and it is not too late for you to sign up. It's happening in Orange County, California.

Many men have signed up already, and it's going to change their lives forever. We invite you to be a part of this too. You can live a life free from shame and compulsive behaviors. You can find out more about it at newlife.com. You will not regret it. You can also call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Let's go to the phones now. Here's Angela in Philadelphia, who listens to us on the New Life app. Welcome to New Life LIVE. Thanks for calling 1-800-229-3000.

Angela: Thank you. I saw the topic about grief, grieving over your estranged family member, and that's what I'm going through. Grieving over an estranged family member, which is my son. It's been a year this month that I haven't heard from him, haven't talked to him. I don't even know his whereabouts.

Chris Williams: Angela, what were the circumstances around his estrangement?

Angela: He was out on his own living with another guy, so he's into that lifestyle. They lost their home where they were living. During that time, I don't know where they are.

Chris Williams: What was the last event in their estrangement? That sounds like it may be financially circumstantial at that point, like maybe they just took off and tried to find an alternate life. But did he give you a reason for not contacting you?

Angela: No, he didn't give me a reason for not contacting me. When I last talked to him before that event happened to them, he had asked me about giving him money. It was financial. This is one child that I've been helping a lot. I felt like with him being with another person, they could have gotten help from someone else.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Angela, you're saying you've helped him a lot over the years, and this is your child that perhaps has struggled. I just want to clarify: he's living in a gay lifestyle?

Angela: Yes.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: They've fallen on hardship, he asked you for money, and you said no—which was probably good for us to say no, especially when it's become repetitive. Because of all of that, and I'm assuming you're Christian, correct?

Angela: Yes.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: It sounds like some of his needs and values aren't aligning with the values he grew up with. You're not providing resources, and sometimes when people are in desperate ways, they're going to go where they can get the resources.

It also can be a way of pulling away because the more he goes towards something that is the opposite of you, there's all kinds of hidden shame there, or just feeling like you wouldn't understand. Nonetheless, it is heartbreaking because no matter what our children are going through, no matter what their age is, as moms and parents, we want to stay connected. I would reflect, Angela, over the years, if you could do it differently. Not that you could change the outcome—we all wish we could change some of the outcomes. But are there things that you think he needed that perhaps you fell short in, or circumstances fell short in? Have you done some reflecting on the relationship?

Angela: Yes, I have. I've done it with mother and son and our relationship.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Go ahead.

Angela: But with that being said, I knew that he was going through some struggles of his own with anxiety and so forth. And then with me accepting it, but I would never tell him that I didn't accept him or love him. But I had to tell him how I felt about it on a spiritual basis.

Before that happened with him, I was supportive of him. We had gotten into a situation before that and we got back on the right track. But my son was—I didn't know at that time, but he was on a particular drug.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Which is another reason why people pull away.

Chris Williams: Angela, I just think this is a really painful situation in the sense that there's a lot in the mix here between the relationship and what he's dealing with personally. I think one of the things that's very difficult is that we can try to figure this out by playing forensics and putting this together.

It sounds like what you're dealing with is a lot of ambiguity in this loss. There's so much that's unsaid and unknown. There are many factors we can look to, but the actual truth is unknown. That makes the loss that much more complicated because in our mind we get obsessed with trying to figure it out. We get obsessed with trying to fix what is right now unfixable, especially where you don't even know where he is. That's really painful and really confusing.

I would be careful about writing bad stories about yourself with the blank pieces of paper that he's given you. We can reflect on the fact of how can I do this differently, or what would I do, or just reflecting on the relationship for some clues. But kids have their own minds. Even if you did everything right, this could still be an area that he struggled in.

You had mentioned anxiety and these other things, including drug use. He seemed to be a person who just really struggled being able to manage his own life. You were right in the sense that if I just keep giving him more money, I am putting this into the black hole or funding a problem rather than a solution.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Or I'm funding the drugs.

Chris Williams: Exactly. I would do two things here. One is, in the grief of letting go of what you need to let go of right now, make sure that you're kind to yourself and careful. I have a hunch that he's going to come back around. If you play the long game, when he comes back around, one of the temptations is going to be to go back in and start funding things again. I wouldn't do that unless it was the right things.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Unless he's wanting to get help. He wants to go into recovery from the substances and he wants to address his anxiety or depression or maybe some other mental health issues that he's dealing with, so that he can get in a healthier place. The baseline is saying, "I will do anything to fund that which is healthy; I won't do anything that funds that which is unhealthy." Angela, you said you don't even know his whereabouts. Does anybody? As a mom, sometimes it's just, "SOS, are you still alive? I just need to know that you're breathing and then I can go on." Do you know anybody that knows his whereabouts or has had contact with him?

Angela: No. But I didn't clarify this: he did get himself clean.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Oh, good.

Angela: He did get himself clean. I believe it was the young man that was with him that worked on him. Then he also went to the doctor and got medication for his anxiety. This was much earlier before that event happened to them because I was in a relationship with him, we were communicating.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And you've sent out messages like, "Haven't heard, it's been a long time, just wanting to make sure things are still okay and checking in."

Angela: I've text messaged the phone number that I had to tell him that I missed him. Even during his birthday and the holidays, I was doing it around those times to tell him that I missed him and I love him, wished him happy birthday. That's where I'm at. But I believe from me, I just believe that he is going to come around. That's my hope. Thank God he's given me peace.

Chris Williams: Good, Angela. You need that. We all have this—what I refer to it as—a comfort magnet inside of us. We want to know. But the comfort magnet inside of us is that we as human beings are gravitating towards what is most comfortable.

Tragically, we mistake familiar for comfortable when those two things are not the same thing all the time. It sounds like in Angela's relationship with her son, they had a strong base. He knows her love for him. That's where I'm like, that comfort magnet's going to kick in at some point in time.

One of the mistakes that we can fall into is that we assume that our children, because of their struggles or because of these relationship struggles between us and our children, that our children really don't want a relationship with us. The current trend of estrangement is contributing to that. The bottom line is this: very few people that I have worked with in the last 20 years don't want a good relationship with their parent.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And there's something that's getting in the way of that. Sometimes it's for them, often what they've conjured up or what they're ashamed of. It's hard. Kids forget because they've internalized us as parents, and we still need the communication.

Brian Perez: We've got a webinar coming up in just a few weeks from Dr. Jim Burns called "Doing Life with Your Adult Children." Angela, if you'll stay on the phone, we're going to give you a free registration for that. Anybody else who's interested in that webinar, you can go to our website newlife.com or call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Cindy, we're going to talk to you when we come back from the break here on New Life LIVE. 1-800-229-3000.

Voiceover: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit newlife.com. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: Going to go to Cindy in Santa Cruz now, but first one quick comment.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I just wanted to say, as we were trying to wrap our heads around Angela's situation, I actually think, Angela, you're doing what you need to do. You're leaning into the Lord, you're trusting Him. Yes, there's grief in all this. We grieve when we are disconnected. Moms always want to stay connected to their kids. We carry their DNA inside of us; we just have this natural innate longing. Your feelings are normal. Don't give up hope and keep leaning in. We're praying that he comes around.

Brian Perez: Cindy in Santa Cruz, California, thank you for calling 1-800-229-3000. Hello.

Cindy: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm going to start tutoring a friend soon and she has panic attacks, she told me, and she goes to the hospital when she has these. I'm wondering, since I'm going to be working closely with her, if I can't help her somehow with that. She already sees a doctor.

Chris Williams: What are you tutoring her for?

Cindy: English. She's from another country.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I definitely think, Cindy, you could certainly, as you're starting to tutor her, ask her how she's doing, how's her anxiety level about this. Get her talking a little bit before you jump right into English and let her know that you want her to tell you when she starts to feel overwhelmed.

If she starts her anxiety starting to raise over it, she starts to have fears, then you pause and you talk about what those fears might be. You also help her to slow down her breathing because in panic attacks, as the anxiety rises, the breathing shortens and we need air, we need oxygen to our brain. The fear is "I'm going to die," "I'm going to pass out," "I'm going to look foolish"—all of the fears that come flooding in. What people have to do is realize, "Okay, this is a panic attack, I'm not going to die, but I need to breathe and I need to pause and I need to slow down." I think you could help her with that by partnering with her that even as you're learning English, let's talk about when you start to feel anxious and what's going on and deep breathe before we proceed.

Brian Perez: Cindy, do you know where the panic attacks stem from?

Cindy: I think it's a financial concern, I'm guessing. She kind of hinted at that.

Chris Williams: I think, addition to that, is understanding your limitations. Even us as therapists, stopping a panic attack or curing a panic attack is what we cannot do.

Cindy: I am aware of that. I just thought that maybe I can help her by talking to her in some way and you're showing me how. I appreciate that.

Chris Williams: And there's one other thing that I oftentimes use as well, if it's safe for you. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see this. I'm going to hold out my hand and Jill's going to squeeze my wrist. Jill, squeeze as hard as you can. If she squeeze around my wrist bone as hard as she can, it's not going to hurt me. Even if I did that to Jill, it wouldn't hurt her that much at all.

What that does is if she's having a panic attack and, to follow through with what Jill was saying, if you can look her in the eye, help regulate her breathing, breathe with her, and then she could squeeze your wrist, then what that does is it grounds some of that anxious energy and just helps her move through it and helps her know that she's connected to somebody else and that there is a reality that exists outside of herself.

I was actually on an airplane a couple months ago and the person next to me was having a panic attack. I just said, "Grab my wrist, squeeze as hard as you can, now breathe. Breathe." Then I started breathing with them. Again, it didn't cure it, it didn't stop it, but it helped regulate it and keep it a little bit more safe as she worked through it.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Keep it from full escalation and feeling like she has to go to the hospital.

Cindy: I like that. Does that have anything to do with wearing bracelets on your wrist?

Brian Perez: Like if she wore a bracelet?

Cindy: She does wear bracelets. I'm just asking for my own information.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Are these medical bracelets or—I'm not sure about that. Sometimes people have belief certain metals or things can be grounding.

Cindy: It was nothing like that. It's more that area. By putting a bracelet on your wrist, it can help you be more grounded or more aware of what's going on.

Chris Williams: It could be, but what we're looking for is sensory feedback. Can I see something safe, feel something safe, hear something safe, hold on to something safe? Because that's what the body needs in a panic attack: a deeper sense of safety and assurance.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Like even feeling the chair underneath you. Feel your surroundings. Stay connected to the environment.

Brian Perez: We have a tip sheet that we're going to send you, Cindy, so just stay on the phone. It's called "The Truth About Panic Attacks." We've also got an article at newlife.com called "All About Panic Attacks." We'll put information about both of these on our YouTube channel right now if you're watching. If you'd like to order the tip sheet, you can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE and we'll send that to you. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call if you'd like to speak with Jill and Chris today.

Voiceover: Every day we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression—all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because every one matters. Your generosity helps find them. And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the 1 is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/99for1. Join the mission. Rescue the one and restore the many.

Voiceover: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call for the rest of this hour and all of next if you need help with whatever it is you're going through: anxiety, depression, grief, family issues. So much that we help people with here on a daily basis at New Life. We've been doing this for almost 40 years and it's thanks to your generous financial support.

In fact, we've got New Life president Becky Brown joining us now. Hey there, Becky.

Becky Brown: Hey Brian, hey Chris, hey Jill. I am so happy to be here. You know, we have been helping people for close to 40 years. Do you know that that counts for about 40,000 answered calls? Isn't it amazing when you think about that? And I was just listening to the show and that little wrist-grabbing thing that you just did—we all learned something, didn't we, Jill?

Speaking of listening, I was listening yesterday and Jill, I was able to get out water skiing this year, so I just going to rub that in for a minute. But see if you didn't listen, you'll have to go back and listen to yesterday's show. You are killing me! You do live just outside of a lake, though. You have a little more opportunity.

Well, you know, we just—but the truth is that we have to do something every day. What we do here every day is help people find their new life. Whether it is dealing with a relationship that is estranged like what Angela talked about today or maybe it is Cindy trying to be a friend to somebody who struggles with panic attacks. Every day we bring you godly Christian counseling and I think in this day and age we probably need a lot of that. What do you think?

I mean, there's not a lot of that that's going out in the world if you just watch the news one time a day. Do people watch the news? I know that they hear the news all the time but we're not hearing the hope of transformation. I've got a couple of testimonies from listeners to the program. It's Two for Tuesday, so I'm going to give you two of them.

The first one says, "I received help for my depression and anxiety through the New Life radio show and the books. There were times when I felt overwhelmed and didn't know where to turn and listening to the show and reading the resources helped me understand what I was experiencing and gave me practical and biblical encouragement. I'm very thankful that New Life was there when I needed help."

And then today's program, writes Susie, "was wonderful, insightful, fabulous one." I love the word fabulous. "I have been so blessed by it and related to it on so many issues that I'm facing in my healing process. May God bless you richly for this educational and informative and insightful program. I'm so proud I am supporting it and will increase my support."

You know, I know that I am very biased when it comes to New Life and that's because I've seen God work in the lives of so many people as I've been part of what the ministry has done. I want to invite you, listener, if you have not yet supported New Life, will you make that gift today? And Brian, how can they support New Life?

Brian Perez: Well, there's a few ways actually, Becky. They can go to our website newlife.com or they can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or you can text NLM as in New Life Ministries to 28950. That's great if you want to make a one-time gift. If you want to sign up as one of our 99 for the 1 partners, call us or go online to our website. Again, the number is 1-800-NEW-LIFE or the website is newlife.com. Thank you so much for whatever you can do. We will put it to good use right away in helping more people who call into the show, who visit our website looking for resources and videos and articles, so much more. It's all done through your financial support, so we thank you and keep praying for us and the people who call into the show as well.

Becky Brown: And Brian, one more thing. Because I know there's people going to be calling and we want to get to the calls. But you know, New Life is one of the only charities that when you give—and we are a charity, ministry—that when you give, you benefit. A lot of times we give because we are helping someone else and that's very good, but we learn when we listen. I mean, we're all going to be grabbing wrists. I mean, watch out Chris. There'll be a lot of wrist grabbing out there. Plus, it's safe and loving. I love it. Let's make it happen. Ask for permission first. May I grab your wrist? That's actually a really good point, Brian. Just saying.

Brian Perez: All right, Becky. Great to hear from you today here on New Life LIVE. 1-800-229-3000.

Getting back to the wrist grabbing, though, not everyone we know or people we see in an airplane are going to be suffering from panic attacks. But so often we see that people are going through something. Some people don't want to talk about it, some people are shy or they don't want to air out their dirty laundry or whatever, and that's what this show is here for. You can call us anytime right now, 1-800-229-3000. But what do you do in a situation where you're with a friend or a loved one and you notice something? You know, they're off. You don't want to keep prying, but at the same time, you want to help.

Chris Williams: Two things come to mind, Brian. The first thing is that oftentimes we don't have to say anything because maybe we can't, maybe they're not ready to open up. If we are a safe, loving presence, that is its own power, especially when it comes to grief.

The second part of that is just asking them. One of the things I say is "what is unsaid and unknown remains unchanged." Our internal world needs to be talked about and needs to be expressed and it needs to be known, and that's where the change begins. Just understanding that principle, the more that we can move into these conversations about what's really going on in our lives, the more helpful it is. That oftentimes works both ways. It's not just if someone's having a difficult time, they open up and it helps them; it helps us as well because we all go through difficult times. It opens the door and gives permission and says "this is a relationship, this is a friendship that can bear the weight and care well for the difficulties of our lives."

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Yes, and sometimes people, I think you do need to notice and gently, lovingly ask, especially if you've earned the right—you've been in a friendship a long time. But even with new people, when you see someone, that does something for them. They may not open up right then and there, but you're letting them know that you see them and that you care. That creates maybe a sense that you might be a safe person, if not today but down the road.

Chris Williams: One other thing as a caveat: be very cautious of advice-giving. Say less. Be more interested in just being a safe place for them to talk about what's going on.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Letting them share as they want to or feel ready to, not helping them fix it.

Brian Perez: So you don't have to have all the answers. I think that's a lot of times what we think is that we have to be that magic—you know, we get calls and we know people who "I want my child, my friend, my spouse, whatever to come to Jesus. What can I tell them?" All we're saying is we're planting seeds in that regard. In this regard here, if someone's going through something, you're saying it's better to just listen and not necessarily give advice.

Chris Williams: A person being known is its own incredible powerful experience. Giving that credit. Sometimes knowing the answers and giving advice can be a liability rather than an asset. In fact, I've had family members say, "Well, I didn't want to tell you because I felt like you would then tell me what to do about it." You go into radio mode! Go into therapist mode! No, thank you for telling me that. But again, this is what I tell—I get a lot of pastors that come to me and ask how to pastor well through grief. Oftentimes my advice is your words are way overrated. But you're underestimating your presence. Give power to your presence and just say less. "I'm sorry," "I'm here." Those two phrases right there can go a long way.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I think so often we tell people—we use this line as a throwaway line sometimes when someone's going through grief: "Well, if there's anything I can do, let me know." And then we don't necessarily follow up, and they're probably not going to let you know. No. Take the risk. Bring them food. But just say, letting them know you're thinking about them and that you're sad with them. And that you're here, but then check in. Follow up. Because people who are going through grief often don't want to burden others or bring others down. You kind of have to keep showing up and let them know you're a person that can handle it.

Brian Perez: And they often times don't know how they need help. "Let me know what I can do." "I have no idea what you can do. My heart is breaking, I have no idea." Let's not use it as a cop-out if we tell someone "if there's anything you need let me know" and then the ball is in their court. No, check in on them. Take the burden off of them and give them a gift card.

Give us a call, 1-800-229-3000. Can't wait to hear from you on New Life LIVE.

Voiceover: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit newlife.com. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: We've got another one of our 90-minute webinars coming up next week. It's on September 17th. This one is called "From Addiction to Freedom: Biblical and Clinical Help for Lasting Recovery."

When you're battling destructive habits, recovery can often feel overwhelming and impossible to navigate alone. But we want to let you know: freedom is possible. Lasting change begins with understanding the deeper roots behind the addiction.

To gain tools that can help you move from feeling stuck to taking meaningful steps forward, join us next Thursday, September 17th. It starts at 7:00 PM Central time, 5:00 PM Pacific. It's called "From Addiction to Freedom: Biblical and Clinical Help for Lasting Recovery." Go to newlife.com/webinar to find out more. You can also text the word WEBINAR to 28950 and we'll send you a free tip sheet called "Seven Steps to Overcome Addiction."

Now, if you're thinking, "Well, next Thursday I've already got plans," sign up anyway, register anyway, because we'll send you a link about a day or so after the webinar is done and you can watch that for about a week. But if you can join us, it's even better because there will be 30 minutes of Q&A as part of this 90-minute webinar, so you can ask your questions online. It's going to be great. Next Thursday, September 17th: "From Addiction to Freedom: Biblical and Clinical Help for Lasting Recovery."

Chris Williams: Who's leading that?

Brian Perez: Eric Thomas is leading that. And of course, Becky Brown is going to be part of that. You just don't want to miss that. That'll be fantastic. Indeed.

All right, so you can call us here today. We're going to be here for another hour after this hour is done. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call. Another way you can get your question to us is by leaving us a voicemail or sending us an email. You can get instructions on how to do either one on our website, newlife.com/radio.

Here's one that was submitted online from Cindy in Palm Springs, California, who listens to us on newlife.com. Her question is: "Can our marriage sustain a sexless existence?"

"Eighteen months ago I found out that my husband has been cheating on me with prostitutes for the majority of our seven-year marriage. We're in our mid-50s, second marriage for both of us. We've tried to work through it. He's attended Every Man's Battle. We've done both individual and couples therapy, and for the most part, our marriage is intact.

However, we are not intimate. It could be a combination of things: ED due to age or his years of seeking sex outside of our marriage. He's not attracted to me, etc. He's not able or willing to verbalize the issue. I grieve the loss of the marriage I thought we had and continually question if our marriage can sustain a sexless existence.

For the past year, I was okay without the intimacy while we worked on trust, communication, and the impacts of betrayal. But now I'm clearly feeling the missing sex. I would be okay if it's purely medical on his part, but I'm not convinced it is. It's impacting my self-esteem and I'm just not sure I can continue in this state.

I've forgiven the act of infidelity and we are intimate in many ways, just not sexually. I have no concerns that he is still cheating. The rest of my marriage is good, but we are more like best friends now." What advice would you guys give to Cindy?

Chris Williams: There's quite a bit here, but I think that there is another layer of intimacy that they haven't gotten to yet that does need safety and trust to get to, and that just is sex itself and the sexual intimacy that happens in the bedroom.

I believe that one of the things that can happen, one of the lasting damaging impacts of sexual acting out, is it hijacks true intimacy in the bedroom itself. Inside of him, sex may equal shame. He may be still struggling with the guilt of what has happened before.

The irony is that sex itself could be a trigger for him in his shame. What he then does is no one wants that pain, so he just avoids it, shuts that down. I think that Cindy is picking that up and sensing that there is something more here. For him, he has a layer of recovery to get to that restores and redeems sexual intimacy itself.

Now, again, without knowing his background, if this is something that's happened in his 50s, if this is something that he—if sexual acting out was something part of his early childhood, he didn't learn anything different. That's what I was thinking: it's so paired, that's his sexual experience has been the acting out and it's been illicit.

I don't think that it's probably that he's not attracted to Cindy; he probably very much is. But she's a real person. She isn't a sex object. How do you mix the two without tainting it for him? I think that would be difficult. I've run across other people like this.

You've got to get into recovery. You've got to get to Every Man's Battle as soon as humanly possible. You've got to get into a recovery group, whatever it takes, because sexual acting out and true marital sexual intimacy are two fundamentally different experiences. I can't express that enough. To say "I can stop one and engage in the other" is a misnomer. You have to stop one and learn how to do the other.

And I would think that you would need to re-enter into it very slowly, very carefully, with a lot of communication and starting just increasing the affection and creating an environment and checking in with each other. Working out a plan towards that that helps him when he starts to get alarmed in the moment.

It's kind of a little bit of my critique of both the sexual licensure (freedom, everything goes) world or the sexual prohibition world. Both do damage in different ways. Here's what they don't do: they don't tell you what sexual intimacy between a man and a woman in marriage actually is. It's two people learning deep intimacy and physical intimacy, sexual intimacy over the course of their entire lives because our bodies change, circumstances change, we respond different in different times and different seasons.

The changes that occur and that being about two people learning that together with themselves and each other is so critically important that it being a free-for-all over here doesn't allow that to happen. Being shameful and restrictive doesn't allow that to happen either. Where he's at in his recovery, it's easier just to avoid it. And I'm glad that they're building up their emotional intimacy because that definitely has to come first.

I think it's really important that they just increase their physical affection, to get a little bit more comfortable in their bodies with each other and take it slow. Put the training wheels on first.

Brian Perez: Cindy, thanks for reaching out to us through newlife.com/radio and if you want to call us, we're going to be here for another hour at 1-800-229-3000.

Just one quick question: follow up. There might be people watching or listening right now who are thinking, "You know what, Cindy should be happy. At least she's got a friendship with her husband. So what if they're not sexually intimate? At least they're like Cindy said: 'we're like best friends, the rest of my marriage is good,' etc."

Chris Williams: She's feeling a loss in the marriage that doesn't need to be a loss. That's what I would say. Why not continue the healing? A lot of people get to a certain point and they go, "This is good enough." But why not continue the healing and have what God intended you to have? There's more for you.

Brian Perez: And that's what our Intimacy in Marriage Intensive is all about because a lot of people think, "Yeah, my marriage is doing all right." Well, it doesn't have to be just all right; it can be fabulous—Becky Brown's favorite word. You can find out more about Intimacy in Marriage at our website, newlife.com. And keep on calling. We're going to be here for another hour at 1-800-229-3000.

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