New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Hello and welcome to New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and we're going to be in the studio for two hours today. Give us a call at 1-800-229-3000. We've got clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard here, as well as parenting expert and author Dr. Jim Burns. He's the founder of Homeward and has written several books over the years. His most recent one is called *When Your Adult Child Strays: Trading Heartache for Hope*. It's available in the newlife.com store.

Jim, in this book, you write about adult children leaving the faith of their parents. We get calls about this all the time from parents heartbroken about the situation. You and others call it deconstructing the faith. What does that term even mean? Does all deconstruction look the same?

Jim Burns: All deconstruction does not look the same. It's a really important word for all parents to know. By the way, before I begin, I just need to say Jill is here. I'm so excited. She's been on a trip, so I haven't seen her. We used to do a bunch of stuff together and now we're not. I've totally missed your lovely face and your brilliant mind.

Back to deconstruction. Deconstruction really means, in a negative way, the death of faith or the death of a relationship with the church. You see a lot of kids who believe in God, but they don't like the church. That's what you're seeing with this generation.

In many ways, deconstruction can also mean positive things. I've said this on the air before. Our daughter, when she was a senior in college, said she had to disown her parents' faith to own her own faith. Kathy and I freaked out about that, but actually, I sat by her at church on Sunday. She really had to become her own person and have her own faith in a beautiful way. That can be positive.

A lot of deconstruction today is negative. I think there are really three types of deconstructed kids or loved ones. One is what we call the nomads. Then we call them the prodigals and the exiles. Nomads are not in the church. They've not walked away from God, but they have definitely walked away from the church. They're not sure where they're going to go, but they've deconstructed enough not to be in fellowship.

Then there are the prodigals. The prodigals are the ones who have said they do not believe in Jesus. They used to be in the youth group and they loved God, but they don't believe in Jesus. The next one is the exiles. The exiles are a lot like the nomads, but the exiles have their feet in both. They kind of have a foot in the church and with Jesus and a foot outside of it. They may not feel comfortable with the same church they grew up in. Those are going through a deconstruction process. Parents need to understand this because the kids aren't explaining it very well to them. So, the parents are up in the air. They don't know what's going on.

Brian Perez: Parents need to remember that they can still be a positive influence throughout.

Jim Burns: Very positive. In that book, it's called *Trading Heartache for Hope*, and I have a lot of hope in the deconstruction process because we are seeing a generation, Generation Z, coming back to faith in some great ways. It's incredible.

I think there are some things they can do. One is they have to maintain a climate of openness and grace with their kids. You're going to have to embrace a difference there. You just have to do that. If you're upset or frustrated, find another avenue to talk to somebody else. A counselor would be a good idea. Again, that's key.

Also, recognize that God is sovereign and you're not. God is not walking away from these kids. I think that's a key process. I write about it in the book that doubters are accepted here. If they have doubt, God's okay with doubt.

Jill Hubbard: It seems like a spiritual separation and individuation process. Individuation is a great psychological term of really becoming healthier. A lot of times, you're becoming your own person, and that's the way with faith as well.

Brian Perez: The book is called *When Your Adult Child Strays*. It's in the newlife.com store, so grab a copy. You can also call us here in the studio if you want to talk to Jill and Jim. 1-800-229-3000.

Find out more information about New Life or order any of the resources mentioned on today's program by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. We're back here on New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000. Dr. Jill Hubbard, what's the first thing that comes to mind when I say asparagus?

Jill Hubbard: Vegetable.

Brian Perez: Okay. Dr. Jim, what comes to mind first when I say cool car?

Jim Burns: Not mine.

Brian Perez: Do you drive a Prius? I'm joking. Jill and Jim, what do you say when you hear the word mental health? Aha, so it didn't even work on them. New Life. We want you guys to remember New Life because that term comes out a lot, especially this month because it's mental health awareness month. When you hear a friend talking about mental health, maybe it's their own mental health, tell them you need to call New Life.

Jill Hubbard: If you had said what do you think of when you say New Life, I would have said mental health.

Brian Perez: We should have prepared ahead of time. But newlife.com or you can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or just tell them to call us here in the studio when we're here. 1-800-229-3000. We want to help you. We've been doing this for almost 40 years now, and it'd be great to help more people. Just tell them about us. The easiest thing to do might just be to refer them to our website, newlife.com, and they can get the phone number there.

The phone number to call us here in the studio is 1-800-229-3000. We are going to begin with Susan, who is listening in Wilmington on newlife.com. Welcome, Susan, to the show.

Susan: Thank you.

Brian Perez: How can we help you today?

Susan: I've been in a relationship with an avoidant boyfriend for almost 10 years and he's been unwilling to talk about relational issues. I'm just kind of tired of it, so I got out of it. His friends keep trying to fish for information from me and he'll send me nostalgic texts and all this. I've been trying to keep silent, but it's not working. I don't know what should I do to move forward.

Jill Hubbard: Susan, good for you for recognizing that after so many years, this relationship, nothing was changing. His behavior continued and if he didn't have the insight to get the help, you were taking care of yourself. It sounds like you're not the one that's not moving on. Explain to me, because it sounds like he's the one that's not moving on, so much so that his friends are advocating for him.

Susan: Correct. He's sending nostalgic texts to me every three to four weeks. I just don't know what to do because when it happens, I feel like I'm going 10 steps backwards.

Jill Hubbard: Okay, so it does affect you. It's working in one sense, what he's doing. He's trying to remind you of all of the good that has been over the last 10 years. That's a long time to be in a relationship, so you do need a time of grieving, and he's grieving.

Here's the thing, though. You don't need his permission to move on. You've made it clear where you're at. It's important that you have support on your side where you can process how you're feeling. You can weigh out that, yes, a lot of times when we look back, we remember all of the good. But what were the reasons why you left?

You may have to reiterate that to him. You're right, there was so much good and I want to acknowledge that in this grieving it's hard and remembering the good feels nice, but there were so many things that were ignored and that's why we're no longer together. You may have to be a little bit of a broken record. Nonetheless, the things that got in the way are the reason why we are no longer together.

Susan: I feel like when I tried to have the conversation with him and gave him an opportunity to meet me halfway, he's not able. He's very incapable of it. When I told him I was getting so frustrated with it, I told him that I needed to step back because I was getting overwhelmed. Then three days later, he broke up with me again through a text message.

Jill Hubbard: Okay, so he's the one that broke up.

Susan: He keeps breaking up. It's childish.

Jill Hubbard: Do you want to be in this relationship?

Susan: No. If he wants to be in a relationship with me, he needs to step up. If he can't step up, then leave me alone.

Jill Hubbard: Have you put that in writing?

Susan: I just because I've been silent and I haven't been communicating, but evidently the silence isn't working. So, my question was, should I reach out to him, not texting but talking, and say, "Hey, I'm not available for sporadic contact. If you want to have a real conversation about rebuilding with actual plans or commitment, I would be open. Otherwise, respect my space," or something?

Jill Hubbard: One thing people hear is your actions more than your words. If you strike up a conversation with him, then everything he's doing is working. It depends on what you want. All he cares will care probably is that he's talking to you. How can he get you to talk to him again? I think evaluating what you really want, put it in writing. It can be kind. Ask him to stop sending the sentimental memories to you, that you would like him to stop doing that, and ask him to respect that. But if you're clear about if you're willing to step up and recognize the things that have been wrong in our relationship, then we can move forward. But until then, I need the space to heal.

Brian Perez: You guys were together for 10 years, you said. Were you guys living together?

Susan: Yes, for seven of it. My problem is a childhood wound. I'm the anxious and he's the avoidant. My ex-husband, I was married, and it's the same thing. I did reach out and get help for my attachment style and he hasn't, and he's probably unwilling because he thinks he's so manly. That's why I was calling, if I should have a conversation or I should send a text.

Jim Burns: Susan, I'm with you. I don't think texting is a good idea. I think you have a conversation with him. Yet, I see you being a little iffy on this. You said to Jill pretty much I'm not really willing, if he's not willing to change, I'm not really willing to go that way. If that's the case, then you've got to make that really clear. You may even have to talk to a counselor and practice what you're going to say with him.

You could go on for another 10 years going back and forth, or you can say you can either cut it off or work if he was willing to work on it. But now you're saying you think he's unwilling to work on it. You don't want to be with somebody who's unwilling to work on that stuff. So, if he's totally unwilling, I think your decision is made for you. I think you've already made that decision. He's sending these nostalgic things, that's all great, but that's not saying he's moving. Actions speak louder than words. Again, you're going to have to go through the grief. Either way, there's going to be pain in this thing.

You don't want to be avoiding pain because you're going to have to face pain one way or the other. There's pain in working through the relationship and trying to see where he's going to go because you go, I'm going to give this guy one more chance. Or there's pain in saying we're done, I'm going to move on. Either way, you're going to have pain. When somebody has pain, then that means they need people around them, what I call their circle of support, to help them work through this. He's not the one to do that for you. And it's actually his friends who are also texting, they're not the people either. Do you have people around you? Have a counselor? Do you have a pastor? People you can check in with on this?

Susan: Unfortunately, because I centered my whole life around him and his things, I shrunk. When I realized that, "Hey, this is wrong for me," I started doing my work for myself. That is why the conflict began because I realized that there were issues, and then when I would try to speak about them with him, he's incapable of it. He doesn't want to be accountable for anything.

Jill Hubbard: There's certainly no exact formula to take here, Susan, and certainly having a conversation is more relational for sure, and you've been together a long time. Usually, breakups are not just clean. It's not just a one-and-done conversation. There's a lot of back and forth and negotiating and trying to see can we move forward or can we not. You're in that phase.

I would try all of the above. If one doesn't work, then you do something different. You're just navigating this day by day and week by week, and it's okay to say what works for you and what doesn't work for you. What makes it harder, what would make it better?

Jim Burns: I think it's really good to write it out too. You don't have to read it to them, but to have it written out so you're very articulate, and you're a very articulate person, so you can do that to say here's what I would expect and if you can't do that, then we don't want to jump back into it. You lived with this man. It's like you've been married. It's like a divorce. You're going through more or less a divorce. With that process, there are just a whole lot of good times and bad times and whatnot, but if you don't feel he's capable of making some of those changes, then you probably have your out, if that's how you feel.

Jill Hubbard: You have to ask yourself, do I want to be with him even if he never makes the changes? Is there enough good there that I'm willing to say there's no perfect relationship, but what we have is good and I'll be okay with it? It doesn't sound like you are.

Brian Perez: I want to touch on something Susan said, that she shrunk over the years when she was with this guy. As Christians, we often hear less of us, more of Jesus. But what happens in a relationship when it's less of us, more of my significant other? That can't be good.

Jill Hubbard: Losing yourself in a relationship, if you're in a relationship and one of you is not necessary, something is definitely wrong. There need to be two people in the relationship, two individuals that come together.

Jim Burns: Even Susan said that she had lost a lot of her base, if you would, her community because she had moved toward his. The Bible talks about two becoming one, but you become one, but that doesn't mean that you don't have significant others and deep friendships of the same sex for me that help build my marriage. She needs that. She needs the fellowship of church. She needs to be talking to a counselor.

Jill Hubbard: What was going on inside of her that she was willing to give that up, that she organized completely around him? It's a good lesson.

Brian Perez: Susan, stay on the phone. We'll put you in contact with someone in your area who should be able to assist you, or maybe a Life Recovery Group would be good for you. I'm sure there are some there in the Wilmington, Delaware area. If not, there are also some available online. Stay on the phone and we'll get you connected. We're going to be in the studio for the rest of this hour and all of next. Call in to talk to Drs. Jim Burns and Jill Hubbard at 1-800-229-3000. I see Kelly, Marty, and Olivia coming up.

Find out more information about New Life or order any of the resources mentioned on today's program by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. Father's Day is coming up and for a lot of men, it brings up mixed emotions. A lot of men quietly ask themselves, am I showing up the way I want? Many men carry secret struggles: pornography, shame, isolation, unhealthy patterns, and they think I'll deal with this later. But be honest, you've been saying this for a long time now.

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1-800-229-3000 is our number in the studio today. Next, we're going to talk to Marty, who is listening to us on WAVA. Welcome to New Life Live. Thank you for calling 1-800-229-3000.

Marty: Yes, hi, thank you for taking my call. The reason why I'm calling is because all my life I've pretty much known that I've had ADHD from childhood in school and so forth. I have struggled with substance abuse for my entire life all the way up to. I'm now 58 years old, and I got a year the other day clean and sober, praise God.

Brian Perez: Congratulations.

Marty: Thank you. I've had more than—I've had almost six years once as well, but it's just where I am on my journey. This time, the last year, I've noticed that a counselor told me that if I don't get my ADHD or my mental health problem taken care of along with my attempts at recovery, then it makes recovery so much harder if not almost impossible. That has been my experience over the years. It's not for lack of trying and giving my whole heart to recovery and 12-step programs and the church and my relationship with Jesus and all those things, but I fall short after so long.

What's happening as a result here lately is my ADHD is becoming very difficult for me to manage in my work and my everyday planning. Also, I'm not very tech-savvy. I wasn't in school when I was growing up, so I fought against it for as long as I could. I can do banking and things like that online and emails, but just the whole everything that goes along with it with passwords and emails and texts and group texts and all these things on top of my ADHD and trying to manage all the things that come in life nowadays. It's just becoming more and more difficult for me to keep up with everything and it scares me. My main question is, is there hope? Is there help? Is it possible that it's something more serious than ADHD? I have been getting evaluated. I went four weeks in a row for an evaluation by a psychologist, and I'm waiting to go see the psychiatrist to talk about the diagnosis and all of that because I've never been treated for ADHD since the second grade. In second grade I was for just for a couple months until my teacher said, "Marty, you're acting up. Did you take your medicine today?" one of those things. I just told my mom I don't want to take it anymore.

Jill Hubbard: Marty, I'm sorry for your pain. A lot of people make light of ADHD, but it's quite painful for people. It just hangs in the background. Often people then struggle with substance abuse because it's a form of self-medicating. Here's the thing: you've found that you get sober, but getting sober doesn't cure ADHD. It just brings it back up to the surface because you were able to kind of squelch it and quiet the self-condemnation that goes along with it.

It's important to be aware that it really is a brain function issue. It's not you not trying, being lazy, being not smart. It is a brain function disorder. It's important to know. It's tricky because hardcore substance abuse recovery people say no meds of any kind. But at the same time, people with ADHD can be helped by some medication interventions. But that's not the only thing to do. There are other behavioral interventions that are really important, and putting structures in place where you lack them to help streamline and make life easier. It's usually the stuff that seems easy in your head, like I should be able to do that. Those are the things that ADHDers can't do, that they struggle with. You can probably do the hard and creative stuff, Marty, but not the stuff that you think you should be able to do.

Brian Perez: Marty, we've got to go to break. Don't hang up. We're going to continue our conversation with you. The phone lines are open. We've still got some lines open at 1-800-229-3000. Kelly and Olivia, we're going to speak with you and everyone else who calls in today.

Hello, it's Becky Brown. I am so excited to launch our 99 for the One partner initiative. Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. It reminds us of the story in Luke 15 where the shepherd leaves the 99 to go rescue the one. We've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the One is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE or newlife.com/99for1.

Find out more information about New Life or order any of the resources mentioned on today's program by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. And let's continue our conversation with Marty, who's calling in, listening on WAVA. Dr. Jim Burns, what would you say to Marty?

Jim Burns: Marty, first of all, I want you to know that some of my very best friends are adults with ADHD. Almost all of them at one time struggled with medicating themselves in another way. I think your counselor is spot on when your counselor said work on your ADHD and then, as you work through your substance abuse, it'll be better and more effective. It doesn't notice I didn't use the word easier, because being addicted to any kind of substance is really tough.

I think you're doing it. You're getting an evaluation. You've been four times. You're getting a psychiatrist to talk to you. I agree with Jill that a lot of times with substance abuse, you don't want to use medications. However, make sure that the psychiatrist that you meet with does know that you have had a substance abuse issue. Work—you can work on this. One of the things that I suggest often to parents with kids who have ADHD—some of them become adults, of course—is that they do get a coach. The coach can kind of help them think through things. Maybe even with some of the stuff that's in your mind, maybe it's cluttered. You were talking about texting and all that kind of stuff. Maybe somebody can help you think through that. I've got a close family associate who has ADHD, and she actually hires a coach to help her think through some things. It's really good. When she was in high school and college, she had a coach too, to kind of help her get her homework done because she would sort of forget it. She'd help everybody else with their homework and then not do it together.

I think you're on your path. I would just really suggest that you keep on doing what you're doing. Learn how to work through your ADHD. It's harder, but it's not impossible. Like I say, the people who kind of get their arms around it, they do better both in dealing with ADHD, but they also do better than with substance abuse issues. They do better with relationships. They do better with so much more. You're 58. I'm calling that young today.

Jill Hubbard: It's not too late. The idea of getting an ADD coach—you've probably already had a sponsor in AA, so it's the same kind of thing. There are actually even 12-step groups for ADHD people. That's part of that structure: adding in. You add in systems, you get help in the areas where you struggle. Instead of hitting your head against the wall on your weaknesses, you want to focus on your strengths and you fill in the gaps with other types of things. You're on your way.

Brian Perez: Marty, thanks for calling today. Stay on the line and we'll connect you with a Life Recovery Group in your area. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call. We're going to speak with Olivia after we talk to Kelly in Kansas, watching us on Facebook. Wave hi to Kelly. Thanks for calling. 1-800-229-3000, Kelly. How can we help you?

Kelly: I'm wondering how much more effort I need to give as a Christian to my relationship with my parents who clearly aren't wanting one anymore. They're emotionally immature, so there have been some situations. I'm 50 years old now, so this isn't anything new. But they clearly aren't interested in communicating with me. Is it okay just to try to check in every few months or how much effort do I need to keep giving?

Jim Burns: This is almost like the opposite of my book. I hear it all the time. Emotionally immature parents. One of the top books in America is a book on that right now. Let me ask you, Kelly, is there a reason do you know why they've kind of checked out?

Kelly: The last situation that happened, I overheard my mom talking about me to my dad this winter and about one of my adult children. After a couple weeks, I sat on it and then I brought it up to her, let her know that I'd overheard it. She denied everything and said she was talking about someone else. Ever since then—and I was very kind with how I brought it up, I didn't accuse anything and I didn't argue with her when she denied it, but I know that she knows that I knew the truth—after that, any contact or communication had to be me reaching out to them.

Then my son graduated high school a couple weeks ago and they came to it, but she was mad about something at the party. I was busy, I don't know what it was all about, like didn't say goodbye to any of us. My son that's in the military who they're probably not going to see for a year went to go hug her goodbye and she just was like, "Get away from me." I haven't reached out to them since that. It's just clear that they're not interested in a relationship. I've always given an effort my whole adulthood, I let a lot of things slide. But I'm kind of to the point now where I've already grieved that relationship. I really don't care, I don't really miss them. But part of me feels like I should reach out every so often. I don't know.

Brian Perez: Do you have siblings?

Kelly: I do, and he's not in the picture. It's just kind of been this way our whole adulthood. I think just lots of bad family dynamics and he's separated himself from the family. I know they're not in touch with him either.

Jill Hubbard: In childhood, that must have been painful growing up with parents that seemed to be caught up in their own emotional obstacles and not really seeing you kids.

Kelly: Yes, I've had to do a lot of work as an adult and I've made a lot of progress in the last 5 to 10 years on identifying not blaming myself anymore and not trying to bend over backwards to get them to care. That's why I think I'm to the point now where it's like they are who they are. It was her fault to my son that she did that. I don't know what they were mad about at the party, but she acted really inappropriate in pouting and comments and such.

Jill Hubbard: You keep saying their lack of interest. I don't know if it's lack of interest or lack of awareness and lack of attunement of being others-oriented. It sounds like they're very focused on how they feel and how others are treating them.

Kelly: Yes, you're spot on.

Jill Hubbard: In my book, *Forgiving Our Fathers and Mothers*, it's certainly about some extreme cases, but the idea of coming to terms—and it sounds like this is where you're at—of who people are, who your parents are, versus who you needed them to be or wanted them to be. Being able to fill the gap with other people in your life, basing your relationship on the degree that taking the good and leaving the rest. Respecting more, okay, you have the role of my parent so I respect that, so I'm not going to completely cut you off, but I'm not going to honor what isn't honorable and I'm not going to depend on someone or keep longing for something that isn't there. But still maintaining connection because these are the parents God gave you. Family isn't always everything we need them to be.

Kelly: I sent a couple text messages just since the graduation saying, "Hey, I didn't see you leave." But they're not responding to me. I thought maybe I would try to call in the next week or two. If I stopped reaching out, Kelly, do you think they would reach out to you? I honestly don't think they would. They don't reach out to my brother, I know. I think they would probably complain or something to others and play victim, of course.

Jill Hubbard: Kelly, I think you have to decide for yourself how you be an honorable person. What is your sense of values and integrity and that you want to model for your kids? If your parents are unresponsive, they're not willing to really be relational with you, sure, you could kind of storm off and pout about that, but decide who you want to be. If who you want to be is someone that says, "Okay, periodically, I'm going to reach out to them. Hey, thinking about you, hope you're doing well," and then leave it at that. But don't chase them.

Brian Perez: I would think this kind of thing is going to get even worse in the future because we see that so often now with parents who are just on their phone the whole time their kids are around them at the table. Especially when they're emotionally incapable, and that may be the case, Kelly.

Jim Burns: I say protect and honor. Protect your heart and honor them by periodically being in touch with them. They don't have the ability to know the depth that you know of community and connection. But still, as a daughter, you honor their relationship, but at the same time protect your own heart. We'll be back on New Life Live.

Find out more information about New Life or order any of the resources mentioned on today's program by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. Every day, people like Susan and Kelly and Marty reach out to New Life looking for hope, guidance, and a way forward. Today, you have the opportunity to meet that need in a powerful way. Through our $250,000 matching gift challenge, your gift will be doubled, bringing hope and healing to twice as many lives. Double your impact by giving at newlife.com, by texting the word MATCH to 28950, or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

Thank you for whatever you can do and thank you to the generous donors that are making this matching gift possible. Again, double your impact by giving at newlife.com/match or by texting the word MATCH to 28950. You can also call our main line, 1-800-NEW-LIFE. If you want to talk to us here in the studio, we're going to be here for another hour, so call in to 1-800-229-3000. We've got Dr. Jim Burns and Dr. Jill Hubbard here. Now we've got Olivia, who's in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, listening on newlife.com. Hi there, Olivia. Welcome to New Life Live.

Olivia: Hi, thanks for having me.

Brian Perez: Of course. How can we help you?

Olivia: I have a situation with my blended family. I have four stepchildren and one biological son, and it seems like we're constantly traveling to go visit the stepchildren, but they don't come see us. It's been going on for 10 years. I'm kind of over it, but my husband wants to spend money and continue to travel to go see them. I believe that the commandment number five is honor your mother and father. Even though I'm their stepmother, my husband is their biological father. Joseph was a step-parent. I just—I'm very—I want the God answer because I feel like they just really don't respect us and they're not making an effort. I've tried my hardest to bridge relationship.

Jim Burns: I really appreciate your heart that you want to know the God answer. What's hard about it is they should come your way. They should be with their dad. They should do the drive or the flight or whatever it is. Sometimes that doesn't work with adult children and sometimes it doesn't work in a blended family. I have a friend who just wrote a book and she calls her family the smoothie family, but there are some rocks in the smoothness of the thing. I think it's kind of cute because a lot of people don't even use the word blended anymore because the word blended assumes that everybody's getting along fine and they're all doing they've all stepped in line. A man and a woman fall in love, they get married, and then it's all supposed to work so easy. It's not easy. It's difficult. Period.

In this case, you may not get what you want, but I would take some of the lead from your husband in terms of him with his kids. As much as I wouldn't get over it because that's his kids and his kids are tied deeply to him spiritually. You might have to find other avenues where you're frustrated, but I wouldn't punish your husband because they're acting kind of goofy.

Olivia: Biblically speaking, we're supposed to be chasing after this family multiple times a year and going to go visit them? For me, I honor my mom and dad. I don't make them come see me. I hold them to this standard. I come from a blended family. We did not act like this. Are we supposed to just go track them down and be with them as much as we can and take the high road?

Brian Perez: Olivia, can I ask you a quick question? Are your adult children Christians?

Olivia: Some are and some are not.

Brian Perez: The only reason I brought that up is because if she's going to use the Bible, if she's going to say, "You know the Bible says you should," it may fall on deaf ears.

Olivia: I never say it. I never say it. I do not preach to them. I don't punish them. I've never expressed my disdain for their behavior, ever. I've done pen pals with the grandchildren. I write them letters and send them packages so we can video. It's not about that. In your heart, do you guys believe that we should be sending a message to these adult children in their 20s and 30s that we should come see them and bow to them and make it easier for them? Where is the effort in the relationship for both ways? If you guys tell me I'm crazy, then I'll believe you. I respect you guys.

Jill Hubbard: You're not crazy, Olivia. Do you have a child that is your husband's stepson as well?

Olivia: Four and one. I have the one, he has the four.

Jill Hubbard: It's your bio son, but it's not his son?

Olivia: Right. My biological son goes and sees his real father and me. My son comes and visits me. It's the other four.

Jill Hubbard: Did you guys move away from where everybody grew up and the kids all moved away, or did you guys move away?

Olivia: Because of a job, my husband moved away. But we met in Florida.

Jill Hubbard: You guys moved away from the kids, they didn't move away from you. I think that makes a difference. Olivia, you've been in a blended family. First of all, you know stepmom is at the bottom of the totem pole and gets blamed for most things. It also takes a number of years, a good decade to so-called blend families, but then there are always kids that can spin off.

I think this is an issue between you and your husband and perhaps rooted in his fears about losing his kids and the relationship with them. I think the two of you need to talk about this. There isn't an exact biblical answer, but I think sorting out what is he afraid of? What is he trying to hold on to by chasing them? Because we do teach people how to treat us. Not that you have to demand respect. 20-year-olds even into the 30s are kind of self-focused. They're a little selfish as a generation. Do we allow that? Not 100%. But I think everybody has to do their part to maintain relationship.

Jim Burns: Protect and honor. Protect your heart and honor them by periodically being in touch with them. They don't have the ability to know the depth that you know of community and connection. But still, as a daughter, you honor their relationship, but at the same time protect your own heart.

Brian Perez: Olivia, that's available in the newlife.com store. We've run out of time, so sorry that we couldn't continue our conversation with you, but we have other resources available too in the newlife.com store and the website. We are going to be in the studio for another hour, so we'll be able to take more calls. 1-800-229-3000. Tom, we see you on hold. Stay on hold, we'll get to you when we come back.

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