New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Welcome, friends and family, to New Life LIVE. New viewers and listeners, you're welcome as well. No strangers here, except me. I'm a little bit strange. Brian Perez is my name. That was clinical psychologist Dr. Alice Benton who said that.

Alice Benton: And her clinical opinion.

New Life: Yes, man, how does that make me feel? I don't know. Licensed marriage and family therapist Mark Cameron is here as well. Dr. Alice, what else is on your mind to start us off?

Alice Benton: I don't know that I should say more, maybe not. Should I leave? Should I walk out of the room? It's a serious consideration that I want to lay before you all today. A friend of mine has a fatal diagnosis, and we don't know if he has days or years, but he could have just days.

God has put it on my heart to have a conversation with him that he will not want me to have. I want to ask, do you have a pending conversation that you have been dreading? You might be fearful of it. Maybe you feel ill-equipped to have it. These kinds of conversations, I think, are our most important calling because they have to do with loving people well and loving God well by obeying His nudges.

There's a Bible verse, Matthew 5:23, and it tells us if you bring your gift to the altar and you find you remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift and go deal with that situation. I think that when we have unfinished conversations, unfinished business that we avoid or delay, it can actually get in the way of our contact with God, which is why He urges us to so quickly try to take care of these difficult, intimidating conversations.

The unwanted conversation He has put on my heart is to talk about eternity with my friend. But I've already been told, "Don't talk to me about God anymore." And so, will I choose to please this person who doesn't want the conversation, or will I choose to please God?

I'll admit, this is a very difficult one for me to have. I've been planning to have it for some time, and I find that I hit up against a paralysis because I know I will upset my listener. So here are a couple of things that will help me move forward and would help you as well with yours.

I'm front-loading the relationship with some investments. I'm doing some kind of things. I'm having some lighthearted conversation with my person. My prayer team is on high alert for me, and I'll even fast to tap into what the Lord says, that there's some difficult situations we hit up against that cannot be surpassed without fasting and prayer.

I've been practicing. I role-play the conversation with my coach. I role-play the worst possible outcome so I can boost up my courage. And I'm bookending that conversation. I'll check in with my safe people who love me and are encouraging me before and afterward.

And now I'm at the point of setting a goal date so that I can push myself past this hesitation that I'm feeling. What is your unfinished business that God is nudging you to address? Because if we delay, we're increasing our own anxiety, sometimes depression, and often distance in the relationship.

So maybe you have a lie that God is nudging you to confess. Maybe you haven't disclosed a sexual mistake you've made. Maybe you have an apology, gratitude, or an "I love you" that you haven't yet said. So join me. Make a commitment with me that we will face these tough conversations. We'll move that ball along. And if you can't yet, give us a call here because we can help you with that.

Mark Cameron: Wow, so good. I love that, Alice. I think most of us probably could think of one challenging conversation that we hesitate to have, and so I loved all of your points in that.

New Life: Too often we wait until someone is on their deathbed to have these conversations, and then we regret it afterward if we don't have the conversation. Maybe you're the one who's been given a diagnosis and there's people that you want to make amends with before that day. So we can help you with that when you go to our website or call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or newlife.com. We'll be right back.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

And let's start our time on the phones with Shauna in Lamar, Texas, who just discovered New Life LIVE. Hi there, Shauna. How'd you find out about it?

Shauna: I'm literally driving through to my daughter's, and I just heard you guys and was very intrigued and thought I'd call in with a question.

New Life: Wonderful. So let's hear it. What you got for us today?

Shauna: I'll take you chronologically. I was married for 25 years and lost my husband to a heart attack. Several months later, I lost my mother, who was my very best friend.

About a year later, I met a guy. Then I lost my grandmother, whom I was not close to. Then I decided, after much prayer and consideration, to start dating this guy, and then my sister died. And then the guy I was dating and we had decided to get married, he passed.

So I've lost five people in about five years. And I feel like I have grieved effectively, efficiently, appropriately. I have people in my life that are very concerned that I'm just stuffing it or ignoring it, and because of childhood trauma, I'm a very good stuffer. So I guess my question is, what are some checks that I can do with myself to make sure that I am grieving effectively versus stuffing?

Alice Benton: That's a really good question. How close is one of the people that's bringing up their concern about you?

Shauna: Very close, my best friend and my adult children.

Alice Benton: What are they seeing that leads them to believe you're stuffing?

Shauna: Probably the main thing is that it's been too quick. Like, I'm over it in three or four months. And I don't mean over it like "over it," but the main part of it. I'm just not that grieving widow who's going to spend my life in sackcloth and ashes. I feel like remembering the good times and the good things and the forward trajectory of my life is more important than sitting in grief. I mean, I still have sad days.

Mark Cameron: Shauna, you talked about being a good stuffer from childhood trauma. Did you have to get over things or move past things quickly as a child?

Shauna: I had an alcoholic, abusive father and an abusive sister to me. But they would go at it and I was the referee. And I was always the "good kid" that didn't matter because there was so much drama and trauma going on. I just didn't matter and I learned that I didn't matter. I know better than that now. God has healed me from that. But you never quite really get over it completely.

Mark Cameron: Right. I mean, I understand what you're saying about not just living in the grief. And so I think there's a healthy balance to that. There's being able to be in touch with and experience and manage the grief, because one of the first stages of grief is often denial, where we just push it away and then we just move on. But you can also get stuck in sadness, and so there's a healthy balance to that.

But I wonder if you are maybe moving on too quickly because you learned not to attach very deeply. Because when we're not as attached very deeply because relationships are dangerous, then it is easier to move on. Would you say that that might be true for you?

Shauna: I don't think so, and that's not denial. My mother, when I say she was my very best friend, she was my very best friend. It was a little hard during childhood, but once I became an adult and that drama ceased to exist in our lives, she was my spiritual confidant. I could tell her anything. And my fiancé, I feel like we were close and open.

Mark Cameron: But it sounds like your two most significant losses were the first two, your husband and your mother. And so I mean, how did that affect you when they died? You were married to your husband for 25 years and your mother was your best friend.

Shauna: That was a shocker. However, his sexual integrity was not intact, and I had grieved that relationship for three to five years, deeply grieved, for a long time before he passed. So I feel like that grieving process had already started.

Mark Cameron: Well, you grieved the type of loss, but maybe that was some intimacy, but you didn't grieve that he was gone. I'm sure there were lots of other things that his presence provided, even if it was connection or being able to provide support or whatever it was.

The thing about denial is we're in denial about it. We don't see it. And so I mean, I understand why your best friend and your adult kids are expressing some concern, because if you can move on from these two losses very quickly, it seems like it's a self-protective strategy of detachment that's happening.

Shauna: So then how do you put yourself out of that lane and into the proper grief lane?

Mark Cameron: Well, I think have you been to therapy before, been to GriefShare?

Shauna: I have not. I am very close to my pastor and he counsels, and he says that I overthink everything and I do. I am a very deeply introspective person and he was like, "If you feel like you're done, you're done."

Mark Cameron: Well, I have huge respect for pastors, but I also know the value of somebody who's clinically trained too. And somebody's clinically trained knows how to ask maybe some deeper questions, and so I think really being able to just kind of sit in it and to be able to reflect upon it, the good and the bad of the relationships, what you miss most about them, being able to have somebody ask you those questions and being able to tap into some sadness.

Because it's natural for us to feel sad. I mean, when we have the loss of an important relationship, if we don't feel, if we move on so quickly, then that really says well, it wasn't really that important to us because how are we able to get over it so quickly? The people who we are most attached to, the harder it is to detach from. So that would be my recommendation is I know that you don't want to wallow in grief and that's okay, but try out a clinically trained person and just have them ask you some thoughtful questions and see what happens from that.

Alice Benton: We call it getting a check-up from the neck-up where you let them explore how your head is doing with all this, but most importantly how your heart is doing. I think you're good at intellectualizing and you're very comfortable in your thoughts. You sound so stable in talking to us even though you've had these five astounding losses in such a short period of time.

So I believe you that you don't feel upsetting emotions. And so there may be a disconnect between your head and your heart, and there's value in reconnecting it even though it can be scary, but we're supposed to be people who are harmonized with our thoughts and our emotions and that's how we interact best in the world when we reconnect those two.

So there are a couple of things that I'd have you look for, and this would help determine, am I stuffing? Usually, the problematic emotions leak out somewhere. And so we get irritable with people or we withdraw, we shut down, or we don't feel pleasure in things that we used to be able to enjoy.

A second sign can be you might have physical pain, headaches, neck pain, digestive problems. Or you might have big emotions that you're struggling with but they're not grief. So again, could be anger, could be anxiety. You might be numbing yourself somehow, whether that's a digital numbing, more alcohol use, more exercise, working hard, any of those things can become excessive and numb out those emotions. And lastly, can you talk about the losses? Are you willing to, to tell those kind of stories, answer the questions that Mark is addressing? So looking into all those with a clinician can help you determine, am I okay and I'm healthy and I'm just bouncing back quickly, or is there something more to be explored here?

Mark Cameron: Well, and ask for more specific feedback too. If your best friend, if your kids are saying that they're concerned about you, ask them for specific feedback about that and don't defend, don't explain, just receive it from them because sometimes when we do a lot of explaining, even though we're not meaning to be defensive, it comes off that way so the other person kind of pulls back a little bit and they don't give us the feedback in as a direct way as we need. So that's another suggestion for you.

Shauna: That right there is what it sounded like. The checklist that she gave me, I don't know that I'm doing any of that. I am keeping myself busy, but it is a good busy in that I love to paint. So I've been painting and it is great prayer time, worship time, talk-with-God time. So even though I'm keeping myself busy, it's a good place to be in while I'm grieving. But what you said is paramount to me that, you know, I am open to them saying, "Hey, you know, I'm not sure you're okay," and I have asked why, but I don't know that they've ever directly told me why they're concerned about me, so I'm definitely going to hit on that one.

And y'all, I have grieved. I have sat in puddles of tears. You know, and it's a lot at the beginning and then it gets less and I still have very sad days and I do have a friend that was very close to my fiancé and every now and then we'll get together and, you know, tears will happen. So it's not like I'm completely unfeeling. I do have emotion about it. I just don't know, I'm concerned about why others are concerned about me.

New Life: Well, and that's a good place to be, being concerned that others are concerned. We're going to send you a copy of the Life Recovery Workbook for Grief from the newlife.com store. We've also got a tip sheet that's available to you and anybody else listening. It's called "10 Tips for Healthy Grieving." We can send that to you at no cost.

Alice Benton: When my mom passed away, I didn't shed a tear for an entire year and she was pretty much my best friend, loved her deeply, and I just didn't feel that version of the grief. I felt more joy for her faith and happy that she was in heaven and that her suffering was over. So I just want to share that because we go through grief in such unique ways and it's not always about tears. We don't have to necessarily cry in order to grieve, but it is helpful.

New Life: What do you guys think of Shauna's statement about a "good busy"? Is there such a thing as a good busy where you look at things like, "Well, I'm using this, some people might start going to church more or reading the Bible more," whatever. Is there such a thing as good busy?

Mark Cameron: Yeah, distraction is not bad in and of itself. I mean, sometimes you're in so much pain, you know, physically, I've had surgeries and things like that, and you just got to distract yourself. But it's when that distraction becomes this default mechanism to numb and avoid. That's when it becomes destructive for you because you're not able to manage those emotions and as Alice says, then it leaks out or it comes out in other destructive behaviors.

New Life: All right, Shauna, thanks for calling in today to New Life LIVE. We're so happy that you found us as you were traveling there from one state to another, and we are here on, if you were listening on the radio, maybe on Sirius XM, we are here Monday through Friday, and you can find out all about us at newlife.com. Sign up for our newsletter, sign up for our email devotions there at newlife.com. More phone calls coming right up. We've got Brad, Carol, and Elizabeth. You guys stay on hold and we'll be with you shortly here on New Life LIVE. Thanks so much for listening today and for watching us as well. God bless you guys. We'll be back.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

We love helping you guys when you call in to us but we know that sometimes deeper, one-on-one help is needed to fully work through issues. We have a nationwide network of Christian counselors ready to help you do the deep work of addressing past or current struggles. Listen to what Lisa shared: "The best part of listening to your show was when I learned you had a referral program for counselors. You recommended an amazing counselor who is so helpful for my chronic depression. I support you because of the many different ways you help people: the New Life LIVE radio podcast and podcast, workshops, counseling networks, many different resources. Perhaps in the future when another person calls in with depression seeking help in the way of a counselor, they will be referred to a fantastic counselor they click with also." You can find the right counselor to help you with your family or whatever it is that you're going through at newlife.com.

Let's talk to Brad, who listens to us on KKLA in Redondo Beach. Hi there, Brad. Thank you for calling in today.

Brad: Hey, thank you for taking my call. So, I have a son from a previous marriage. He's 24 years old. He had some sexual abuse when he was younger, from the time he was about four until the time he was nine, from a family member on my ex-wife's side. And he's now wanting to transition to be a woman, so he's going through I guess what you guys call gender dysphoria.

He asked me to take him off of my insurance because of another medical issue he has, I guess. He says he has MRSA and he couldn't find a specialist. So I let him know at the time, "Hey, you know, through the court system, I am supposed to have you covered under my insurance until you're 26. I don't feel comfortable taking you off my insurance. Let me see if I can help you out, get you a specialist for your MRSA, and then we'll talk about it then, you know, reach out to some specialists."

After that conversation, it came to, "Hey, Dad, you know, I didn't want to go through my transitioning on your insurance. I'm trying to do it on my own." So I said, "Well, you know, again, I don't want to take you off my insurance. You know, what if something happens to you medically and the insurance that I had for you would have helped you and now I got to live with myself that I took you off my insurance and now you're gone and now I can't do anything? I can't see you. So I would prefer not to take you off. I appreciate you being honest with me and letting me know that you want to transition and whatnot. So let me see what I can do."

So I reached out to our insurance broker and the lady kindly sent me all this information on the gender dysphoria and the process he needs to go through to get his transition, and then my heart just got a big thump. It's like, you know, I don't want to be the one to help you do this. God created you in His image. He created you perfectly in His image. And you had a rough time, you know, getting abused and whatnot, but I still think that there's a chance for you to come out of this. So I'm holding onto this information. I haven't reached out to him. I haven't told him I have the information, and I don't know what to do. I don't want to be the avenue for him to go and get this done by me giving him the information. It's something that I'm struggling with and I love him to death, but our conversations have gone south and I don't want to give in. So I need some direction on what to do.

Alice Benton: That wouldn't sit right with me either, Brad, to feel like I'm facilitating or enabling something that I don't agree with. And so I think it's okay to not pass on that packet of information. Instead, you might say, "Here's a phone number, son, that you can call for more help and more information," and decide if you're even okay doing that. I think I would feel all right giving him the phone number myself, but not the packet of information. You said that your conversations are going south with him. Is he getting upset with you? Does he know your stance against him transitioning and how are you two talking about that?

Brad: So, yeah. I was a drug addict for 17 years. I'm now, let's see, March will be 20 years. So I cleaned up my act and I went and cleaned up my act because I wanted to be part of his life. So he knows that I was a drug addict. His mom has let him know everything that I've done wrong in my entire life. I don't know if that's built up or whatever the case is, but I've opened up to him about all that. He came up and saw me when I was in rehab when he was I think four years old, somewhere four or five years old.

So there's a history there. And the problem now is that he's out getting high and doing drugs. Before he started this transition thing, he had a girl in his life and they had a baby. So his daughter is going to be three in January and I get to see her, and he's not to see her because of the way he is, dressing like a woman, wanting to be a woman, and the child's mother doesn't want him to be around her.

So he reached out and he got mad at me and told me that I'm the reason why he can't see his daughter and "Why can't you just when you have her give me a call so I can come and see her?" And I told him, I said, "Son, your daughter's mother doesn't want you to be around if you're dressed like a woman. You're going to confuse her. She doesn't know what to do. She sees pictures of you on the wall as a man and then you're going to show up, you know, dressed as the opposite sex, and you want me to defend you that this is your father though he doesn't look like a father." I said, "So I'm going to choose the side of the mother so I can still have my rights to see my granddaughter. I don't want to live in that world." He has a different name now, he goes by a different name now, and his mom calls him by that name and she sends me, I blocked her on text messages a couple of years ago because it's just so rude the things that she sends me and cussing at me and stuff that I don't respond anymore.

New Life: All right, we've got to take a break, Brad. Don't hang up. We'll continue our conversation with you, plus we've got some other calls on the board that we want to get to as well. So stick with us. This is New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez, here with Mark Cameron and Dr. Alice Benton, and we are taking your calls about whatever issue it is that you're struggling with, and we invite those of you watching and listening to pray for our listeners as they call in because everybody's going through something and we're here to help at New Life LIVE.

Hello, it's Becky Brown. I am so excited to launch our 99 for the One partner initiative. Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. And it reminds us of the story in Luke 15 where the shepherd leaves the 99 to go rescue the one. And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the One is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/99for1.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

And we're talking to Brad in Los Angeles. Alice, what else would you say to Brad?

Alice Benton: Brad, I'd ask you to prayerfully decide how you can support him. What do you want to be doing for him in these coming days and weeks? And your ability to be humble about your own addiction and how that impacted his life, especially when he's young, you have such a good entry point there. And so you might let him know, "I'm sure that what I've done in my life has added to your struggle. And so I'd be glad to go to meetings with you, to go to a family therapist with you, or to arrange for an individual therapist for you with all that you're going through. Those are things I can do for you."

And then this is what I'm not able to do. "I'm not able to arrange connection with your daughter. That has to go through her mother. I'm not able to do that. I'm not able to give you paperwork or information to support transitioning because you know I don't think it's what's best for you." So get clear, Brad, and then let your son know what you can do and what you cannot do.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, and he may be able to get two insurances. Oftentimes you can have a primary insurance and a secondary insurance, and so if he's wanting to be considerate enough to know that that might cause you some harm or mental harm to think that you've enabled him just by him being on your insurance. I mean, that's okay. If he wants to make this big decision and he wants to try and do it by himself, I think that's okay and he might consider getting his own insurance.

I think what would be a good thing to do, though, for you is to maybe ask him to consider delaying for one year. And the reason why I say that is because he's 24. We know that the brain does not fully develop completely until the mid to the late 20s. So asking him to do that, there's a good reason behind that. The other part is to be able to make this transition decision when he's still not yet sober or maybe not yet healed from his childhood sexual abuse. So in that year delay, I would then say, "Could you delay for a year and then focus on healing?" And I will be with you, like Alice is saying, maybe you also say that you can go along with him or that you will also pay for whatever treatment that he may need to be able to heal from this sexual abuse and this addiction.

Alice Benton: When he complains about you seeing his daughter and not him, I would validate that. "That is so hard that I get to see her and that you don't. You know, if you pursue your sobriety, it is more likely that you'll be able to see her." So point him back to the healthy path the mother of his child is requiring of him.

New Life: We're going to send you a copy of "Doing Life with Your Adult Children" for calling in today to New Life LIVE. And when you support New Life, you're helping people connect with transformational resources that can have an impact on future generations. When one person breaks an addiction, gets healed, gets healthy, it has a ripple effect on those around them and for generations to come. Thanks for your generosity in helping others. You can give online at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

Here's Carol in Quakertown, Pennsylvania, listening on WBYN. Welcome, Carol, to New Life LIVE. Thanks for calling us today.

Carol: Hi. That lady that was on before Brad, if she's still listening in Texas, you can tell her I wish I felt like she did, under control instead of a mess.

I lost a husband and then three years later remarried. Then four years after that, I lost my mom. And I called you two times when I lost my mom and my husband. I remarried, so. And then I lost my sister, and now we're losing other family and neighbors and it's church people.

And I'm one of those who, the kind of person I am, my anxiety is so big anymore that I have those digestive issues. I have doctors, homeopathic and regular doctors, and trying different stuff to feel better. My current husband, he's just starting the memory issue, he's now taken something for that. So there's another anxiety. And I've been rejected by a couple of family members because there's two families now and in my past, and been slightly rejected and had to forgive them, but they never asked me to forgive them. They just had me ask for their forgiveness.

And anyway, just been so bad. And then the holidays coming. And when I called and the girl asked me what I was asking for, I just want to know, even though I'm falling apart, does God still love me? I have friends that are asking me, "Why are you doing this? Why aren't you being happy because God blesses you with a home and food and blah blah blah." They're afraid I'm going even try and kill myself.

I've had to promise, I went to Christian counseling, I had to promise her and my friends and a couple of family members, no, I will not commit suicide. But I'm told I'm supposed to wake up, I read scripture, my husband reads scripture, I go to church, I read scripture on the Facebook, and I'm supposed to wake up every morning and say, "God, thank you for giving me another breath today." And instead, I say I wish I was in heaven. And I'm getting really bad. And today was one of them listening to the radio coming home from lunch with friends, believe it or not. And they knew I was sad. They can tell by my face.

And then they're all talking about their issues, and then I got sad for them. I get sad for the people on your program, on people I know, and I cry on TV with this Israel and the country and the shooting and it seems like I feel ashamed of myself and guilty that I should be happy and thankful when there are people suffering far worse than I am. So all I wanted to know from you: Does God still love me, even though I'm a mess?

New Life: Short answer: Yes, He does. He really does.

Mark Cameron: Carol, you're going through so much. You've gone through so much loss here. And yeah, I do believe God loves you and we care about you here too. I want you to know that. You are obviously a very deep feeler, and it sounds like you are in a depression. And when we're depressed, we can't think our way out of a depressed mood. That's one of the side effects of depression is it affects our thinking. And if we could think our way out of it, then it would be easy. Then we'd be able to overcome depression, we probably wouldn't even get into a depressed state. But we can't. Have you considered medication or are you on medication?

Carol: I hear it on TV, the advertisements. I know people, I have my sister's stepson is on it. And I hear all the dangers. When I had my first husband died and I went to Christian counseling, she told me I'm not depressed, it's anxiety which can go into depression too. And I got Xanax. So I take it when I need it and it stops me from crying and I can get through the day if I take it. And it's such a low dose, I'm cutting it in halves and quarters. My doctor tells me it's such a low dose, it's not hurting my liver, blah blah blah, because I'm always worried about my health. I'm in my late 70s and all these people younger than me that are getting sick and I worry, am I going to get something? And I just take it all in and I can't handle it all. So if I have to take Xanax, I try not to.

Mark Cameron: Well, anxiety and depression often go hand in hand because they often spur one another. And so it sounds like your anxiety is really driving some depression, and you might need an antidepressant really to counteract that side of things, which may in turn help you improve your anxiety. So if you're really in this state, and if people are concerned to the point that you might hurt yourself and you're having these deep crying spells, I would encourage you to just ask a doctor about an antidepressant.

And then I do think there's probably a lot of anxiety in your life, probably anxiety that comes from prior to all of these losses that you've had. And I would encourage you to, did you say that you're seeing a counselor right now?

Carol: Yes. I've seen her four times this year and I told her I was doing great, so I stopped.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, that's not very much, four times this year. So I would encourage you to get in on a more regular basis. And in particular, I would have you, if you haven't yet, start to talk through your childhood because I find that when people have these questions of, you know, "Does God still love me?" it usually links back to not feeling like a parent loved them or accepted them or cared about them, or they were shamed. And so typically how we learn to attach with our parents is usually how we learn to view God.

Alice Benton: Carol, even though you recently were feeling better, it certainly seems like now is the time to increase both the kind of treatment and the frequency of it. I was even thinking if you'd consider an outpatient program for depression and anxiety, or possibly even inpatient, because if you're struggling to live and your family's worried about your safety, this is the time to add in more help.

New Life: Carol, we're going to send you a copy of "100 Days to Freedom from Fear and Anxiety." That's available in the newlife.com store. Thank you so much for calling in today to New Life LIVE. And in the same way that you say you pray for the people who call in and are going through everything, now people are going to be praying for you as well. Stay on the phone, Carol, and we've got more calls coming up on New Life LIVE.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

All right, we are back here on New Life LIVE, and let's talk to Elizabeth in Washington, DC, listening on WAVA. Hello, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: Hello, can you hear me?

New Life: Yeah, loud and clear. What's your question for us today?

Elizabeth: The question is, should I have dinner with my son and his family for the holidays?

New Life: Okay, tell us about your son.

Elizabeth: He's a working alcoholic, and he's in a program, but he's very offending when he's under the influence.

New Life: Oh, like in what ways, if we can ask?

Elizabeth: Cursing, swearing, just the whole intoxication thing. Very, very.

Alice Benton: How difficult to be around. And even though he's in a program, he's still drinking.

Elizabeth: Yes, absolutely. Terrible.

Alice Benton: And have you ever addressed his behavior with him before?

Elizabeth: Oh, many times. But I've backed off, like I haven't been over there in quite some time. In fact, the last time I saw my grandkids, they were very young. Now my grandson is 22, my granddaughter is 17, and then I have an older granddaughter that's 33. And my son is like 61 years old and still going through these issues.

Mark Cameron: So have you been estranged from your grandkids if you haven't seen them since they were very young? Sounds like it's been maybe more than a decade.

Elizabeth: Yeah, it's been absolutely. And he's married, and so with that, I just couldn't put up with all that was going on over there. And then the grandchildren, they were taught to team up against him, and it was just totally chaotic. And there was no way out. I couldn't put up with that. No.

Mark Cameron: So your concern is you go over for dinner and then chaos ensues.

Elizabeth: Of course, it'll probably be I'll see it and then it'll traumatize me. Because when I was talking to him on the phone earlier today, he was working but drinking, and that was just oh, it was just disgusting. Totally disgusting. And he knows the Lord and he was born again and all of this, and still knows the Lord and still straddling the fence.

Mark Cameron: And what's your relationship like with your daughter-in-law? Does she have similar concerns?

Elizabeth: I'm going to say that she has issues coming from a background raised without a father, the mother, and she has childhood traumas. Although she doesn't talk about it, I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. And so their issues coming from her end, bringing these childhood traumas into the marriage. And then my son, he's in a situation where he claims that his job is part of his reason for drinking and part of it also is the wife. So it's just totally.

Mark Cameron: Yeah. Well, here's what I would say, Elizabeth. This is a difficult situation. I think it's really up to you whether you want to go or you believe that you will be, you know, maybe not physically unsafe, but emotionally safe in this. I think what you could do is, if you're willing or your son is open, is maybe have a proactive conversation to say, "Hey, I'd love to come over. I'd love to see all of you guys. It's been so long. I really want to connect. Here's my concern: my concern is that there may be some conflict if you're drinking or if you're drinking heavily."

And so if that occurs, then you might lay a boundary down and I would say just decide this ahead of time. "If that occurs, then I'm going to leave, and I just want you to know that. I hope that it doesn't come down to that, but I want you to know that if I feel emotionally unsafe then I will leave." And maybe you might need to set up an Uber for yourself if you don't drive, or see if there's somebody who's going to be there who's willing to be sober who can be your driver.

Alice Benton: You might also decide that Thanksgiving is too likely to be a repeat scene. And so maybe you offer an alternative: "I'm not able to come to Thanksgiving, but I'd have a cup of coffee with you," if you want to invest in relationship with him or with any of the rest of them. Or you might continue your own stance of, "I really can't see you until you have some sobriety under your belt."

Furthermore, I'd attend a 12-step meeting with you. I would see you there, but I can't see you in other areas. But in all of this, Elizabeth, I'd have you ask, what does God want from you? Because the Bible tells us that we can separate from someone who continues in chronic unrepentant unhealthy behavior. But then we're also sometimes sent back into those relationships to be light to them, to be light and salt. But making sure you're in a strong position with, I talked about bookending before. If we go into a tough situation where there's likely to be chaos, bookending it with people that love us beforehand and after, or even bringing a safe person with us to be there at the same time. So determine what God wants from you and then what you can tolerate doing.

Mark Cameron: Couple of other things that you might consider is, one, you could invite them to go out and meet you somewhere for dinner. People usually, because of observer bias, they can watch their behavior a little bit more closely if you're out at a restaurant. And then I think just for more long term, I would start to invest individually in each of these relationships, especially with your grandkids. Because sometimes when everybody gets together, a dynamic does get created, a negative dynamic. But if you can see people individually and spend time with them and build a relationship that way, you might find a little bit more intimacy with each of those relationships.

New Life: What if he were to show up drunk at the restaurant, though, or if he were to order a drink there at the bar or whatever?

Mark Cameron: Well, that's where I think as you set these things up, you talk about your concerns openly, and then you also have your plan because then you don't feel stuck in a situation. You have a way out. For Elizabeth, I don't know if she drives, so if she agrees to go over there, she might feel like she's going to be stuck there and now she can't leave. And so if you can either know that you have a ride through an Uber or there's you have an ally with you in that situation, that's always helpful.

Alice Benton: And in the restaurant scenario, it may be another, "I have to leave if you start to drink. I'll have to leave. I'll pay my bill and I'll go."

New Life: What do you think, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth: Well, what I'm going to do is I have my game plan all set up. I'm going to take a colleague with me as a driving person. I do drive, I do have a car, but I'm going to take a colleague with me. And I'm going to go over there and, you know, tell him that I have to leave, I can't stay, I'm going to visit my husband who is in a nursing home and I'm going over there to visit him. But I'll take whatever you have, the plate or whatever. And I'm going to leave. That's what I'm going to do. I'm not going to play around with this. This is never going to go away. It's going to be here. And his kids are probably not even going to be there because all of them are grown. They're probably gone over to their friends'.

Mark Cameron: Well, I think that's very wise if you're going to limit your time there. I think that's really wise.

New Life: We're going to send you a copy of "Doing Life with Your Adult Children" from the newlife.com store. Thank you so much for calling in today to New Life LIVE, and that's all the time we have on today's episode. We will talk to you next time. For Dr. Alice Benton and Mark Cameron, I'm Brian Perez. God bless you guys. Find out all about us at newlife.com.

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