New Life LIVE

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Welcome to New Life Live. As long as we're around, you never have to have a manic Monday. I'm your host, Brian Perez, thrilled to have you join us on radio, Facebook, YouTube, podcast, so many ways to listen nowadays.

We've got licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West here today. He's also the presenter at our Intimacy in Marriage and Every Man's Battle workshops. And clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard is here, too. As you can see, she's like our color commentator. Great to have you both here today. Jill, what have you got on your mind to start us off?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Hello, guys. If JJ were talking, we would hear about yard work, sports, and things because that's been on your mind a lot, and we all kind of have themes. My theme today is about when death comes knocking or when death is knocking because that actually has been on my mind quite a bit lately.

How do we do end-of-life well? As therapists, we deal with people all of the time in really hard situations. We're dealing with life and death scenarios, death of relationships, all kinds of things. But it's good to know that as therapists, we keep growing as people, too.

When you have things that happen in your personal life, it impacts how you think about things and helping people. In the last few years, I've had two end-of-life situations with significant people that have culminated recently. One has already passed, and now I have a situation with someone very dear, a dear close uncle who is at the end of his life.

It's so interesting to observe our family and how when you have not yet experienced a stage of life, you lack awareness about that stage and what it is like for a person. Often, we all have this natural resistance to leaning into death. We don't want it to be so.

I have seen how there is avoidance until you can no longer avoid it. Then what do you do? You have to lean in and you have to show up. You don't have to; you can avoid it, and then you can have a lot of regret. I have been able to see what God does in the midst of showing up when finally people face that this is happening.

We've had a lot of family times at the hospital. In fact, the entire last week, every free moment other than working, I have been at the hospital. They have allowed us to show up morning, noon, and night. We come in the middle of the night; we come any time of day. We've had some really sweet moments, and I am so grateful for this gift of time.

It's also interesting that when you give someone a lot of attention, it actually is good medicine, as they say. We've gone through these cycles of him getting ill and then perking back up. I'm so aware of how hard isolation is for the elderly.

There are two periods of life where we live in the present. It's when we're a young child and we're just in the day-to-day and we don't have the adult worries, and when we're old. We may still have the worries of what's to come and leaving people behind, but we're in the moment.

Being in the moment with people, you get good nuggets and good moments that help sustain you and that are part of the life cycle. My encouragement today is to hold that tension between living life but also being there as people leave this world because it's rich.

Brian Perez: It reminds me of a book that we have in the New Life store called "Living Strong, Finishing Well" by Dr. Dave Stoop. We'll put a link to it in the show notes. We'll be back with Cindy on New Life Live.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Let's go to Mexico. That is where Cindy watches us on YouTube. Hi there, Cindy. Thanks for calling in to New Life Live today. How can we help you?

Cindy: Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'm in a situation right now where I don't know how to move on. Recently, I found out my husband confessed to me that he was in a situation where one of his coworkers had been insinuating things, mentioning she has a big bed and she was alone. To me, it sounds like an inappropriate conversation.

Then my husband used to give her a ride sometimes, not to her house but to a place where she can take another ride to get to her house. Usually, my husband goes to pick me up at work. Four weeks ago, he was crying, and the first thought that came to my head was maybe somebody died or something like that.

When he calmed down, he just told me the experience that he was going through. The second thing that he told me was that he is going to a master's degree also, and he has other classmates. One of the ladies from her class used to sit next to him, always looking for his companionship. All this is frustrating to me.

I have no words to say, but right now I feel like I'm sad, I feel in pain emotionally, and I don't feel okay. I'm just trying to find out how to move on and what I can do.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Cindy, just to clarify, your husband is confessing that women are flirting with him?

Cindy: Yes, exactly.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay, but he continues to give them rides?

Cindy: No, not anymore because I told him not to do that, that it wasn't right what was happening. What hurts me is that he told me until now, and that started since last year, months ago. He said that he was resisting it.

JJ West: It hurts you that he didn't tell you earlier or sooner that this was happening?

Cindy: Yes, exactly. He waited until now. What it opens in my wound is that years ago, too, he was unfaithful to me. That was infidelity. He went into an affair with I don't know who, but he also confessed to me that time.

I'm talking about 15 years ago. Now when I hear this story again years later, it reminds me a lot of what happened. I'm not sure what to do. I love him, and I am willing to do anything for him, and he also talked to me about it and he said that he's sorry for what happened, but I still feel the pain.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, yes, because 15 years ago, he was unfaithful. It's unusual that he confessed, so it's good that he feels guilty and lets you in on that. With the flirting, has he crossed the line here? Has he told you all that has gone on?

Cindy: He said that nothing happened, nothing physical. It was just listening to what the lady said and that he has a beautiful smile.

JJ West: But he's not responding to their flirting? He's not eliciting, he's not doing things to elicit this behavior from them to your knowledge?

Cindy: Well, he said he never touched them or anything like that.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So it's just talk, but why was he crying?

Cindy: Because he told me that he was struggling. He saw this as an opportunity to be with that person, crossing the line. He said, "I don't want to hurt you anymore, and I don't want to do anything that might hurt you. That's why I'm telling you."

Brian Perez: So that he doesn't do it, but he's tempted. It's a temptation.

Cindy: Yes.

JJ West: Your opening question of how to move on or get past this is a little bit tricky. There's nothing for you specifically. Your husband does need to work on why he is being enticed by these flirtations and by these opportunities.

It could be that there's something lacking in himself, that he's lacking some self-confidence or self-image, and the attention that he's receiving from them feels good and he wants more of that. Or it could be that there's something broken in the marriage, something off in the marriage that needs to be tended to so that these other relationships are not as much of a temptation.

But that's work that he really needs to do to identify what's going on in him. That's work he has to do. What you probably need to work on is that this is triggering an old wound. I may need to talk to somebody about the trauma, the unhealed part of my trauma that I need to work on.

You need to decide whether or not this is an actual threat or whether or not this is something where he recognizes temptation around him and he sees it and wants you to know about it so that he doesn't give in and doesn't keep mulling it over in his mind.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: He's bringing it into the light. When you say, "How do I move forward and get past this?" we don't want to ignore this. As JJ has said, you have to be in it a little bit. Let's do more healing now because this is coming up again so that you can get past it and have you and your husband more connected. I think your husband would be a great candidate for Every Man's Battle.

Cindy: Actually, he tried to register in February. I think it was through Zoom, but there was no more space for him.

JJ West: We'll have another online one later this year. I believe it's in the fall, but we also have them frequently. I don't know where you are in Mexico. Are you close enough to Southern California that he could make the one in Orange County?

Cindy: Not really. We are all the way to the south.

JJ West: Okay, got you. There will be another online version in late summer or early fall.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: In the meantime, he could listen to the podcast. He could get the book "Every Man's Battle."

Cindy: He has.

JJ West: Good. Has he also picked up the book "Worthy of Her Trust" by Jason Martinkus? That would be a good one for him to pick up because he can be working on not just maintaining good boundaries with these women that he works with or that he goes to school with, but also rebuilding trust with you.

He should be working on the amends matrix because that's part of your healing process, him making amends for the ways that he's broken trust with you earlier.

Cindy: Yes, actually, I ordered the CD because I tried to get the book on Audible, but it's not available for Mexico. I bought the CD; I'm going to get it these days. I bought it for him.

Brian Perez: Good. I'm thinking of the book "Intimate Deception" as well, written by our friend Dr. Sheri Keffer. That's available in the New Life store. Have you ever attended our Restore Healing After Betrayal intensive?

Cindy: No, I never tried that. Is that online?

Brian Perez: No, it's in person. Oh wait, JJ West is in the know.

JJ West: Actually, they're doing one this summer online. It's either the one in April or it's the one in June. One of the two, they're offering a Restore online, I believe.

Brian Perez: Very good. And if not, we are having one in November in Washington, DC. So that gives you a few months to prepare for that, but that's still a long ways away. Cindy just wants to know what she does now.

How does she move on? Right away, we were thinking maybe she wants to leave this guy. Is that what you were thinking, Cindy?

Cindy: Not exactly. Sometimes I feel like doing that, but at the same time, I think I love him. It's so painful. I'm still in pain. I couldn't sleep last night.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: You may have to ask him, too, what he is willing to do to protect your marriage. Also, praise him for the fact that he has confessed and that he doesn't want to hurt you, and it really hurts him too. So what is he willing to put in place? He needs to go above and beyond in being cautious.

JJ West: One of the things that he can do is something we call labeling your love early. Now it's been a little while, so he can't do it as early, but he can go to these women and say, "I need you to know that I am happily married. I have no interest in any outside relationships, and your flirtatious comments or your wanting to sit next to me or your wanting to spend time with me makes me uncomfortable because I am committed to being faithful to my wife."

Use his own words, but if he says that to each of these women, that's a pretty clear indication I am not available; this road is closed. That can be a way for him to protect your marriage, but also for it to protect your heart so you feel like he is doing everything he can to make sure that these women don't have access to him.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: JJ, it's also a sign for himself. How willing is he to fully protect the marriage? How much does he want the attention but try to keep it from crossing the line and dancing between the two? If you're wanting that stimulation from someone other than your spouse, that's a bad sign.

JJ West: The truth is, a lot of times with temptation, it has a magnetic force to it. We try to get as close as possible, but the closer I get to the temptation, the stronger the pull; it's a magnetic force. I have to make the decision way over here to choose a different course, not get as close as possible and then get sucked in.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. And also the guilt gap lessens over time.

Brian Perez: There might be people watching or listening right now who are thinking, "Well, why don't you just suggest that she tell her husband, 'Quit this job' or 'Stop going to, drop your classes'?" Why is the situation deeper than that, JJ?

JJ West: Because we take us with us to the next situation. I could change jobs and I could change majors or stop going to school, but there are still people everywhere I go. Half the population are women. I will encounter them no matter what, so I have to deal with what's going on in my heart that draws me into that in the first place.

Brian Perez: Definitely tell him about the Every Man's Battle podcast and the next Every Man's Battle that's happening next month, April 24, in Washington, DC. Maybe he can come on out to that. Then the Restore is going to be online, too. Plus, there's more of the online Every Man's Battle. We'll find out all about that when we come back.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: All right, so we've got some dates here. The next Every Man's Battle is in Washington, DC. That's happening next month, the weekend of April 24. Then Restore Healing After Betrayal, that three-day intensive is also in Washington, DC, the weekend of November 13. But JJ, it looks like you found the date of the online Restore. When's that?

JJ West: I believe it's going to be in June, June 6, as the next online offering of Restore. Now sometimes these dates change, so hold that loosely, but always go to NewLife.com to get the most up-to-date information about the next workshops.

Brian Perez: That's why I tell people to go to NewLife.com, bookmark it, follow us on social media, sign up for our newsletter so that you'll be in the know of what we're doing and when we're doing it. It's always a good thing.

Speaking of Every Man's Battle, a new episode of our Every Man's Battle podcast dropped today with guest Joe Elliott. JJ, tell us about Joe and what our listeners will learn from this episode.

JJ West: I'm so excited about having Joe on the podcast. He's part of a series that we're doing introducing the different facilitators to the audience. One, because they're great guys and the audience should know them, but two, it's a way for different stories to impact people. My story's going to impact some people, Doug's story's going to impact other people, Joe's story's going to impact other people.

What we love about Joe is that he came to Every Man's Battle as a participant, and now he serves as a facilitator. He's seen it from both angles, which is really great. He brings a fresh perspective to it, and I just love Joe dearly and I'm so glad that the audience is going to get to know him a little bit better in listening to his story.

Brian Perez: That's great. You can find today's episode on NewLife.com or our YouTube channel or the New Life app or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go back to the phones and speak with Eve in Washington, DC. We've said Washington, DC several times today. Eve listens to us on WAVA. Welcome to the show, Eve. How can we help you?

Eve: I'm wondering what you do about someone who's lying to me. I know they're lying, and I think she knows she's lying. I don't know if I should just cut the relationship off. I heard something earlier on your program about "What does the relationship mean to me?" and that gets at the heart of it all because there's really not much there.

Brian Perez: Eve, can I ask you a quick question? Would you mind turning down the radio or TV or something on in the background? We want to make sure that we hear you as best as we can. Also, this person, is it a family member or a friend or a coworker?

Eve: No, it's a younger sister, and I'm just having a lot of difficulty just cutting the relationship off. It's as though I'm clinging to it because if I cut this off, I'd probably be all alone, and that's very scary for me.

Brian Perez: Eve, I want to be clear; it's not like you only have two choices here: either to keep the relationship exactly as it is and just continue to believe the lies and act like everything's fine, or completely cut the person off.

There is another path that you can take, which is to say, "Listen, because you have lied to me, I cannot take everything you say at face value." That doesn't mean that I'm going to stop being in relationship with you, doesn't mean that I stop loving you, doesn't mean that I don't want good things for you, but it does mean that I have to verify the things that you tell me.

Sometimes you have to say that; sometimes you just have to do that on your own. You just know everything that my sister says, I can't automatically assume to be true because she has a history of lying to me. So I have to go and verify. So she comes and tells me, "Oh my gosh, you're not going to believe what so-and-so said," and she tells you what they said. Well, you have to go, "Well, okay, I don't know that that's true because I can't trust the source. So if it's not verified elsewhere, I'm not going to act as though that information is accurate."

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I guess it does too depend, Eve, how destructive the lying is. I agree with JJ; it's not an all-or-nothing. It's certainly disconcerting to feel like someone is lying to you, and someone that you need as a part of your life. I always say you trust people to the degree that they're trustworthy. You cannot trust her word, so you have to watch her actions.

Assess how harmful it is to you. Is she just an exaggerator? I have friends who really exaggerate, and yeah, I take it with a grain of salt. I know it's probably a little bit less than what they said. Or is she somehow being deceitful behind your back? Assess what the lies are, how harmful it is to you, and can you say something to her or can you just continue on watching her behavior and trusting what you can verify?

Brian Perez: Sometimes it means having solid boundaries. If she says, "I need to borrow money from you, I'll pay you back," I'm sorry, I can't lend you any money because I know in the back of my head you're not telling me the truth. Eve, does she know that you know that she's lying, or does she think she's pulling the wool over your eyes?

Eve: I don't know at this point because it just happened this morning. Her son says that she lies a lot. I've noticed it over time, but it never hit me quite like it did today. Always she would lie about somebody else or something else or some other situation. But this time, recently she said I was dumb and stupid, and that came as a big blow to me.

Then this morning when I brought it up, she said that she didn't say that. It's been haunting me and hurting my feelings for about a month now. For this morning for her to say, "Oh, I never said that," I just couldn't believe it. My response was either you're very uninformed or ignorant about stuff or you're very sick. Those were the two options that came to my head. I've just been very hurt by that over the past month or so.

JJ West: I'm wondering her son told you that she said that. It seems like an unkind thing to say, even if she did say it, and I wonder the context in which she said it. I can kind of see her not admitting it.

Eve: She said it to me. She was really upset when I called, and she just said I was dumb and stupid just out of the blue. Her son said that she lies a lot, and this was a general comment that he made months ago. Then just yesterday, she said that I was dumb and stupid or whatever within the last month.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Eve, was she frustrated with you? People sometimes say things and say things to a sibling that they wouldn't say to anyone else. They may say it in a moment of frustration but often don't really mean it. It sounds like a little kid saying, "Oh, you're dumb and stupid" because she's frustrated. It's still not okay, and it's still hurtful to your feelings. Does your sister, have you noticed any memory issues that she may be having?

Eve: Well, I thought this might have been a memory issue. Yes, I've noticed that she seems to always forget her own shortcomings, and therefore it's always someone else's fault or my fault or whatever.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, that may be a character issue and less of a memory issue because we all like to see ourselves as more noble than we are and others as more ignoble or malicious than they are. She's a blamer is what you're saying; she doesn't take responsibility.

JJ West: Eve, can I ask how old your sister is?

Eve: She's advanced in age. We're both senior citizens. So we're quite old. Just this contact that we've had recently is a result of my calling her. She never calls me, and I usually cut her off when she tries to get me to do the mothering because I don't get it back. People share, nothing's wrong with that and I like that in relationships, but when I do all the giving and they do all the getting, it's just unfair.

JJ West: There's a couple things here that may be going on. There could be some dementia or other end-of-life issues that your sister is facing that are causing her to say and behave in ways that she might not otherwise. There may be a need to consult with a primary care physician or some sort of medical professional that could assess that.

There may be as well a need to invite her to say, "Listen, I would love for us to be able to work on our relationship. I'd like us to have a better relationship, a more respectful and loving relationship. Would you be willing to talk with a family counselor with me to work on our relationship and what needs to change there?" Because it may be that she's unaware of the way her words impact you and the way her constantly looking to you to care for her but never offering in response. She may not be aware of the impact of that, and maybe just letting her know that can help her choose to behave differently.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Also when people get older, we circle back around to sometimes our younger issues. It's not uncommon for people to get rather regressive and more childlike. I wonder if these dynamics, Eve, existed when you guys were kids. If she's the younger sister and you're the older sister, she's looking to you to be the older, more mature one, even though you're both mature in age. The dynamic of sisterhood sounds like it's alive and well, and you're the giver and she's the taker. It's probably a dynamic that's been in place forever.

Eve: I agree with that; I agree that that's the case.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So acknowledging it: "We've had this dynamic since we were little. I feel like I'm always put in the position of having to be the big sister because I am, but now we're both adults." It's okay to say, "This arrangement's not working for me anymore, and I'd like to explore something different." Let's take turns being the big sister because sometimes it gets tiring.

Brian Perez: But like Eve said, if she loses her sister, she doesn't really have anyone else. So I guess one question is: Do you continue putting up with someone's lying or betrayal because if she's gone, she has no one else? So where do you put those boundaries?

Eve: If she's gone, I have no one else; that was my concern. And so I think maybe that's why I'm holding on more, and if I let go, I feel as though I'd be all alone.

Brian Perez: Do you have a church community or anything? No, not now, and I haven't for quite some time, but I do listen to WAVA, and they have a lot of pastors on the radio. But that's not like being in person, I know it's not.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Do you have anybody in person? Do you have kids, Eve?

Eve: No.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I don't think you need to give up your relationship with your sister. I think you're just going to name some of what's going on and realize who she is and who she's always been. Maybe remember as a little girl, and so therefore the relationship has some limitations, and it's okay to say, "I'm tired now, I don't want to be the mom, so let's talk later."

Brian Perez: And possibly look for some other sources of community. Maybe there are community groups in your area that specialize in senior citizens, maybe there's a small group that meets in your area. It could be even a New Life group that meets online, but having more community in your life is going to be important regardless of what happens with your sister. Scripture says there's great wisdom in the counsel of many, and so it's important to have other people in our lives.

A life recovery group would be good, too. You can look for one at NewLife.com, either an in-person one or an online one. But like you said, Eve, there's nothing like being face-to-face. You can listen to WAVA all day long and hear some great Bible teaching and great programs like New Life Live, but you've got to be in connection with people.

There're some articles on NewLife.com that might help you with what you're going through, and we'll drop a link in the show notes: "Five Ways to Develop Boundaries," "Bonding and Boundaries: Why You Need Both," and then there's one called "Six Critical Steps to Courageous Confrontation." Confrontation is something we don't like to do necessarily; we get afraid, and that's why it says courageous confrontation, but sometimes you've got to do things afraid as we say here on New Life Live.

Whether it's reaching out to us here when we're in the studio or even when we're not in the studio, you can still call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or go to NewLife.com. So many resources there: so many articles, videos, past episodes of this show, plus our Every Man's Battle podcast, and dates and things of upcoming webinars and workshops and online courses.

In fact, we've got some online courses starting the first week of May, and there's still time for you to sign up. The three courses are Lose It For Life, Take Your Life Back, and Healing Is A Choice. So you can find out about those online at NewLife.com. Also, follow us on social media. There's so many things that we're doing, and a lot of it is because of your financial support. So we thank you so much for giving towards the work that we do here at New Life Ministries. We'll be back in just a moment.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: I was talking about all the things that we do here at New Life Ministries. When you support our work, you're helping people connect with transformational resources that can have an impact on future generations because when one person breaks an addiction, gets healed, gets healthy, it has a ripple effect on those around them and for generations to come.

To support the work God is doing through New Life, you can give online at NewLife.com, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, or text NLM to 28950. Small gifts, large gifts, one-time gifts, monthly contributions, they're all greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for whatever you can do; your generosity changes lives.

Our monthly giving program, by the way, we just relaunched it recently. It's called 99 for the 1. You can find out more about that at NewLife.com/9941. Also on NewLife.com/radio, that's a page that we have devoted to how you can get your questions to us. It shows the phone number that you can call into the studio here, 1-800-229-3000. It's also got a voicemail number in case you can't call in when we're here but you just want to leave a voicemail. That could be a comment or maybe a question and we can possibly use that here on the radio show. It also gives you an email address where you can submit your questions online.

I'm going to read one of those right now. It is from Sean in Budapest, Hungary, who asks: "How can I support my OCD girlfriend in the healthiest way? My girlfriend has OCD," says Sean, "and I'm trying to understand how to support her helpfully. When she is in what she calls a struggle, she may walk back and forth or focus on small objects on the ground or on the street. For example, she might notice something, continue walking for 50 meters, then feel the need to go back and pick it up."

"At times during these moments, she expects me to go back with her to pick up the object. Other times, she expects me to pull her out of the situation and prevent her from repeating the action. I find this confusing because the expectations change, and it's emotionally difficult for me to know what the healthy response is. So my questions are: Is it healthy for a partner to participate in or interrupt these behaviors? Is over-analyzing small decisions from every possible angle also a manifestation of OCD? And how can I set boundaries without feeling that I'm abandoning her?"

"I also notice that she can become very controlling in minor everyday interactions. For example, if I say I'm leaving, she often adds, 'One more thing,' which makes me feel as if the same repetitive pattern is being projected onto our relationship." I would really appreciate your perspective on how to support someone with OCD without reinforcing unhealthy patterns and how to protect the relationship in the process. We've got a lot there from Sean to go with. We'll start with you, Dr. Jill.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I'm saying yes to all of the above. Everything that he's noticing are extensions of OCD behavior. It isn't just about the object. Some people are more focused in like a germaphobe and so they're handwashing a lot, but it manifests in someone's thinking as well.

So one, I would wonder if she has been evaluated by a doctor or specialist in OCD, a psychiatrist. And if she has not, then it would be a good idea for him to go with her so that he can learn and hear, because we know there's a strong biological basis to OCD and medication is often a needed intervention.

It's hard because it does infiltrate, and there's that fine line between someone needing to process something and then when you just keep going round and round and round. And so to have awareness of, "Okay, I'm going to process this through. Now it's starting to feel repetitive, so I'm going to put a pause in it here." Because when you don't have that need, it can be a little crazy-making like, "I thought we went all the way through this and now here we are at square one again."

So be aware of the talking through and then saying, "Okay, sweetheart, we're going to take a pause here and we're both going to sit with this and we're going to leave this conversation for now, and we can come back to it another time." But just name that it's getting repetitive. I think also the exposure with response prevention—so the seeing the object, wanting to go back and pick it up—I think the boyfriend can take a stance: "I'm going to ask you to refrain from that if you're feeling like this is an OCD behavior." The constant checking and all of that, or we do it once but we don't do it again. So start to put some parameters around the behavior.

JJ West: Jill, I'm so glad you said to make sure to be diagnosed. But if she has already been diagnosed, to then request to go with her to her appointment I think is vital. I think you can say that as a good boyfriend to say, "Listen, you're wanting me to help you in your recovery, in your dealing with this, and I love you and I want to be helpful, but I'm not trained in this.

If you want my help, it's going to be important for me to be able to go with you to see your either psychiatrist or your therapist, whoever you're seeing, so that I have some tools in place for what is going to be helpful versus what's going to be hurtful. You yourself have given me different ideas.

Sometimes you've told me to go with you back to look to pick up the object; other times you've told me you want me to make you resist going back to pick up the object. Because I'm not trained in this, I don't know the right answer, and I only want to offer help that's actually helpful and not hurting. So if you're wanting me to participate, I need some additional information. I need to be able to go with you to at least one of, if not several of, your appointments so that I have better information as far as what my role should be in helping you."

Dr. Jill Hubbard: If she's not in therapy, I would encourage that because even though there's a biological basis, it still manifests psychologically. It gets stirred up and triggered by anxiety. Look at some of the issues that the OCD behavior is in place to protect and when does it kick up more? When does it start to get activated? Usually when there's a fear or something familiar from either a past trauma or a past anxiety-producing situation.

JJ West: I think one of the really important things is going to be for you, Sean, to be able to offer empathy and compassion for your girlfriend, to know that she's not doing this to herself. It's not like she's sitting there going, "Everything's good, everything's fine, I think I'll have an OCD response now." This is happening to her as much as it's happening to you. Have that compassion for her as she's walking through it herself.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: That's a good point, and often to be able to see it like you said, JJ, it's happening to her. Even commenting, "There's that part of your brain again that's on the hamster wheel." Try externalizing the problem.

Brian Perez: Sean, thank you so much for sending in your question through NewLife.com/radio. You can go there to get our email address to submit your question or to leave us a voicemail, or it also shows you the phone number that you need to call us here when we're in the studio. Or I can just tell you right now, it's 1-800-229-3000. You can call us tomorrow because we're just about out of time on today's show.

Earlier we were speaking about the Restore Healing After Betrayal intensive for women and also the Every Man's Battle intensive, that is for men. But there is an intensive that is for men and women who are either married or engaged, and it's called Intimacy in Marriage. JJ West is the presenter at that; you can find out about it at NewLife.com.

Our next one is happening the weekend of July 24 in Washington, DC. This is great if you and your spouse feel more like roommates than soulmates and are ready to fight for your marriage instead of just fighting. You can plan now to join us again the weekend of July 24 in Washington, DC, and if you sign up now, you'll get an early bird discount.

So call us 1-800-NEW-LIFE or visit NewLife.com/IIM as in Intimacy in Marriage to find out more. All right, Dr. Jill Hubbard, great to be on with you today. JJ West, good to see you too, and we'll talk to the rest of you tomorrow, Tuesday, here on New Life Live.

Guest (Male): Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this kind of content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to NewLife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.