New Life LIVE

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Happy weekend, everybody. Personally, I like my job, so weekends make me a little sad. But I know it's a good time to refresh and get ready for a new week. Welcome to New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and you're hearing today's broadcast because faithful supporters of the ministry believe in the importance of free professional biblical counsel.

Giving that counsel today are the presenter at our Every Man's Battle workshops, licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West, and clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard, who's going to share what's on her mind to get us started. Hey, Jill.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Hello, everyone. Let's see if this will make sense to you all. I am thinking about the sometimes sweet, sometimes sorrowful, but always soulful idea of surrender and our need to surrender. In a war, once someone throws up the white flag, once they've exhausted all options, that symbolizes surrender.

Likewise, when we come to the end of our protest emotionally, we move into acceptance, which is our surrender. When we finally yield our will for God's will, that is surrender. Acceptance of what is instead of our insistence of what we would like reality to be.

Don't get me wrong, the protest and the fight is important. It's an important part of our journey. That stubbornness that says I'm going to fight this wrong, I'm going to fight this diagnosis or this unexpected challenge, or I'm going to fight for my child or I'm going to fight for my marriage. That's very much needed and part of our human experience.

In Genesis 32, when the angel of the Lord wrestled with Jacob, they wrestled until dawn. He was trying to get Jacob to surrender all of Jacob's conniving and his own ways and to cling to God instead. Finally, the angel touched him on the hip so he could no longer run away because Jacob was a runner. Emotionally and physically, he was a runner.

Then he walked with this limp forever thereafter. It brought him to his knees, but the not giving up and fighting is good to a point, and it makes a difference. The angel, the man, the angel even said, "You won." So I think at times God gives us this sense of, "I've heard you."

In the end, God is going to be the one that wins, of course. Jacob begged and begged for a blessing, and that's when his name was changed to Israel, meaning you have struggled with God and man and have prevailed, or one who fights victoriously with God. We don't want to fight against God, and I think that's what we have to look at. Where are we often fighting against God, and where do we fight with God and then get to a place of surrender and allow God to do the work?

Absolute surrender is not about adding Jesus to our life like a sidekick when we need him. It's about revolving our life around him and his purposes. What does this look like in your life? Where is your protest warranted? Where is it necessary to come to an end? Where are you fighting God? When may it be time to surrender and rest in God's arms?

Brian Perez: For some people, they may not know, and it could be today. We are here to help you with so many resources at newlife.com, so many articles and videos that you can check out there. You can also call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. We'll point you in the right direction in case there's something specific that you're looking for. Whatever you do, surrender your will, surrender your life to the Lord today. We're here to help you. We're going to go to the phones in just a moment here on New Life LIVE.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: Let's see. Alice in Martinsburg, West Virginia, listening on WAVA. Welcome to New Life LIVE, Alice.

Alice: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I have a daughter who's in her 40s and she has a plethora of emotional and mental issues and physical issues. Right now, she's moved back home with her stepfather and me and she's lived with us for going on four years, except for about five months of that four years.

We tried letting her live with her aunt for a while to see if it would be any different there. She is hoarding in her environment that is the room that she's living in. She can't even walk. The floor's not even open and she seems okay with that. I even let her get a little dog thinking that maybe that would help her because she was crying a lot.

She hasn't worked since May because of physical issues the doctors haven't quite figured out yet. Her psychologist wants her to go on disability because of her multiplicity of problems. This issue of hoarding is so bad that I don't know how to deal with it. My husband doesn't know how to deal with it. It causes issues between us. Most of all, I hate to see her living like that.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Alice, when you bring it up to her, what does she say about it? I don't just mean the physical stuff. Do you ever ask her what goes on for her emotionally and what is the meaning of all the stuff?

Alice: We've had discussions about it, but she doesn't really like to talk about it. She'll just say, "Not now, Mom. Let's not talk about this now." Whenever I try to get her to, because she stays in her room most of the time. It's another issue with I kind of wish I hadn't got her the dog now. I thought that it would help her emotionally and she loves the dog, she's just not even being fair with the dog because the dog's trapped in there with her.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. She's okay with her environment. A lot of times, hoarding can be a way of warding off loss. It can be a way of protecting oneself. It can be a way of holding on to memories, which is also about loss. It can also come out of depression. There can be a lot of things going on.

Alice: She has all of that. I finally got her to go to a therapist because her psychologist has been trying to get her to go to some kind of cognitive behavioral therapy. She has been going to a therapist now for a couple months, but I don't think she's being honest with the therapist.

Brian Perez: Why is that? Why do you think that?

Alice: It's all confidential, isn't it?

Brian Perez: Sure, it's confidential, but why do you think she's not being honest?

Alice: Because I think she just sugarcoats. We've caught her in dishonesty about her life in many areas. She just can't function like she should. Even when she was working, she struggled in her work life. She's always struggled. Whenever she'd get a job, she'd really want to please everybody, so she'd go in there and people-please and she would try to take on other people's responsibilities too until it overwhelmed her. Then she'd have trouble because people don't want to take responsibilities back that you've already taken over for them.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. So her internal boundaries of where she ends and others begin sounds like is very blurry. Also, she gets some of her acceptance from pleasing people, from helping them and caretaking. Her sense of self is not real strong.

There's a lot of work that can be done in therapy even if she's not being 100% honest, Alice. As a therapist, I don't need to know how many items someone is hoarding or the exact nature of them, but to get a sense of someone who is people-pleasing and trying to look good and yet their life is showing that they're not functioning, that obviously signals a problem.

I'm thinking in addition to therapy, if you could get her to go, and one thing is she's living in your house so you do have some leverage because of that, and maybe you go with her or listen online, would be to a Clutterers Anonymous group. They have excellent material and they don't just talk about the stuff, they talk about the emotional clutter on the inside. A lot of times that's what we have to clean out first before we can touch our environment and be ready to do so.

Again, they have meetings online and you have a range of functionality of people because there are often hoarders who are very low-functioning as well as people that are higher-functioning. That may be a good additional resource for her to start to recognize what's truly going on.

It makes me sad that she's thinking of going on disability because work does cause us to rise and it helps getting out of the house, helps with depression. But it sounds like maybe she's too far down the road and you've said she's never functioned well at work.

Brian Perez: We have an article on our website that could help you and anyone else who's struggling with hoarding. It's called "The Dos and Don'ts of Helping Someone with Compulsive Hoarding." We will put a link there in the show notes, but thank you so much for calling in today, Alice, to New Life LIVE. Now we'll go to Carla in Idaho Falls watching us on YouTube. Hi there, Carla. Thanks for calling in today.

Carla: Hello. Thank you for taking my call. I was calling to ask, I'm considering going to a different church and I was wondering, should I tell my pastor I want to leave or should I just leave and not say anything?

JJ West: In general, I would say it's a good idea to actually have the conversation with your pastor, but I would ask you a couple questions, Carla, first. How long have you been going to the church and what is your relationship like with the pastor now?

Carla: I was going faithfully for like 20 years and I loved my pastor. I used to go to him all the time for problems and all that. But the last seven, eight years, I've fallen away mostly due to work and exhaustion. But I got fired in 2023, so now I haven't been working, I've been able to rest and focus on recovery and stuff.

JJ West: Okay. What is it that you believe going to this new church will change or solve for you?

Carla: If I go to a new church, I won't know anybody.

JJ West: Okay. Why is that a positive?

Carla: Because they won't know my background. My pastor knows all of my, most of my life.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So you're wanting to hide, Carla? Is that what you're saying?

Carla: I think I realized that revealing a lot of personal stuff to my pastor wasn't a good idea because now I feel judged.

JJ West: Is there something that he's saying or doing that is causing you to feel judged, or is it just him knowing these things about you that feels shameful to you?

Carla: It all started when I got a divorce and I didn't tell my pastor why the main reason I was getting a divorce. I just gave him one reason out of many that I was getting a divorce. I feel like he judged me as far as I shouldn't have gotten a divorce. He told me that a mediocre dad is better than no dad.

JJ West: Why did you not share the whole story with him?

Carla: I think I was embarrassed because my husband was addicted to pornography.

JJ West: Carla, you're not alone in that. A lot of the guys who are struggling with sexual integrity issues, they understand their own shame around that, but many of them fail to realize the shame that they're actually causing their partner, in this case, their wife. The wife also feels ashamed because she feels like there's something, I'm not enough, I'm not enough to hold his attention, I'm not enough for him, he wants something different than me.

So there is a lot of shame that the wife carries. Carla, you're not alone in that. I do think it's important for you to be in some sort of group that helps you process that shame because it's not something that you have to carry.

My fear is, and I'm not saying that you can't go to another church, but my fear is that you're going to end up going to this new church and the process will repeat itself because you haven't actually dealt with the shame that you're carrying around inside. You're going to carry that into the new situation in the new church and it'll only be a matter of time before you feel like I can't stay here anymore because I feel judged, I don't feel accepted.

I don't want that for you. If you haven't already, I would really invite you to consider either attending the Restore workshop or at the very least going to one of the webinars about restoration from betrayal because I think that's going to be an important piece of the puzzle for you to be able to feel whole regardless of what church you're a part of.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I think that would be wonderful for you, Carla. Our Restore workshop just helps so many women. Additionally, instead of going to another church, because I'm not hearing there's anything wrong with the church, adding in...

Carla: Can I add something else? Over the years, my pastor has told me that I don't trust God and I don't put my trust in God. And I do struggle trusting overall. Like the last few years, at church, I sit in the front row. After church, I sit there for a minute, gather my stuff, but sometimes people come to the front of the church to talk to the pastor and they want prayer or whatever. At this time, people are moving towards the exit, but he looks around over my head to call people to come to pray with him with this individual, but he sees me there at the front row and he's never, ever called me. So I just feel like I'm not good enough.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Carla, I think that looking at who you want your pastor to be for you is important. I think you're feeling hurt in this relationship with him and whether you stay or go, I think it would be helpful to address that, to be able to talk with him and to either admit what you've wanted from him, what you're looking to him for. You just stated you want acceptance, you want him to see you as okay. You're looking for something from him that you're having a hard time owning yourself and knowing that you're okay. So it sounds like there's some work to do internally for you as well as trying to repair this with the pastor.

Brian Perez: Carla, thanks for calling in today to New Life LIVE. We've got more calls coming up, so don't go anywhere. Jan and Crystal, we'll get to you in just a few minutes here on New Life LIVE.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: We were talking to Carla just before the break and Jill mentioned the Restore: Healing after Betrayal intensive. That is coming up in November in Washington, DC. You can find out all about it at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Plenty of time to sign up for that. You'll get a discount the earlier you sign up.

Also in the newlife.com store, we've got several resources that are available, including a book called *The Soul of Shame* by Curt Thompson and *Intimate Deception* by our friend Sheri Denham-Keffer. So check those out in the newlife.com store.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: We wanted to make a couple comments that we were saying at the break about Carla. One thing, a lot of times when we have unresolved issues of our own from childhood or marriages and things, it's easy to project that onto a pastor who we want to be the all-good father, the one that cares and validates us and gives us the good stuff.

But it's important to remember that that isn't necessarily the pastor's role. He gives us lots of good stuff, but he's not a therapist. He's an imparter of God's word through truth. He's a caring person, he can be a shepherding pastor, and that may mean he may hear you, but he's not there to do an ongoing process with you like maybe needs to happen in therapy. So sometimes when we're wanting too much from another person in a role, that is an indication that I need to do some work on the inside so that I have appropriate boundaries, I'm not oversharing and then feeling exposed and I want to slink away in shame, but to be able to understand where all that's coming from. So it's a case for therapy.

Brian Perez: Case for therapy. This is New Life LIVE. On yesterday's episode, we had blended family expert Ron Deal. Starting today on our website, we've got a moving deal. Our office in the Dallas area is moving soon and we're having a moving sale to clear the warehouse of excess inventory. Be sure to visit the online store at newlife.com to get deals on favorite New Life resources.

This helps us a lot because the less we have to take out and carry to the new place, the better. So we'd rather ship it to you. Purchase it there at newlife.com. Okay, back to the phones. Crystal, we're going to talk to you, but first here is Jan in Seattle, Washington, who watches us on YouTube. Welcome to New Life LIVE, Jan.

Jan: Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call. You guys always have the right answers for me every time I call. So here's the newest one. Today was the first day I called to get an appointment with an EMDR counselor that is covered by my insurance. I just kind of want to know what you need to know from me to help me. I have called in many times. I am the youngest of my 90-year-old people now. Everyone else is getting closer and closer to 100. I've lost three grandchildren and three daughters and of course their dad and sons-in-law. I think you call it complicated grief.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Lots of loss. Oh yeah, you've outlived everybody.

Jan: But see, everybody else is much older than me. And yet I know God has a plan and a purpose for me. The one thing I love to do is record. I like to listen, I like to record, and it helps me go back and hear myself and learn more about myself.

JJ West: So you're saying, Jan, that you record your thoughts, kind of like an audio journal?

Jan: Yes. I call it documenting myself the rest of my life. I don't want to deceive people, but I don't want to also... most people that know me know that I have like 4,000 recordings or something and I know how to go back to them and learn from the mistakes that I make. I learn also the older I get, the more I can still sin and I can be stubborn and I still keep doing all the bad things over and over. What can I get from EMDR? Give me some direction to go with EMDR.

JJ West: For anybody who doesn't know what that is, JJ, why don't you explain what EMDR is. Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing is what it stands for, and it's a particular type of therapy that is used to overcome trauma. So people who are dealing with traumatic events in their life and they are struggling with post-traumatic stress of some sort, EMDR is a great tool to help them to overcome, to reprocess that trauma in a healthy way rather than in the way that keeps tripping them up.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. It kind of takes the emotional punch out of the issues, the grief stuff.

JJ West: It doesn't work for everybody, but for the people that it works for, which is the majority of people who are dealing with trauma, it works great. It does tremendous good. It just doesn't work for everybody.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: All you can do, Jan, all you can do is go and try. Here's the thing. The EMDR therapists will lay the groundwork with you. They just usually don't jump in first session. They get to know you, talk about the issues, and sometimes it's not till the third or fourth session that you actually start doing the EMDR work. So in terms of what to expect, it's just to show up and ask your questions. Ask the therapist everything you need to know and see if you have a sense that this is someone that you feel safe with, seems trustworthy, and seems like they can help you.

Brian Perez: All right. We'll be back here on New Life LIVE. Don't go anywhere.

Becky Brown: Hello, it's Becky Brown. I am so excited to launch our 99 for the 1 partner initiative. Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways, and it reminds us of the story in Luke 15 where the shepherd leaves the 99 to go rescue the one.

You know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the 1 is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/99for1.

Brian Perez: We were talking to Carla just before the break and Jill mentioned the Restore: Healing after Betrayal intensive. JJ, I think you had something else you wanted to let her know.

JJ West: Just that there's another therapy called ART therapy that's similar to EMDR. Typically, it's a shorter process than EMDR. Let me say at the outset that I'm not qualified to administer EMDR or ART, but it's just another thing for her to explore as a potential resource in dealing with that unresolved trauma.

Brian Perez: Very good. Thanks so much, Jan, for calling in today to New Life LIVE. Now we're going to go to Crystal in Philadelphia who listens to us on podcast. Thank you so much for downloading our podcasts and listening that way. It is another great way, if you ever miss an episode of New Life LIVE, to check out the podcast. Welcome, Crystal.

Crystal: Thank you so much for having me. Like the previous caller, I appreciate all the advice that you have given. I have actually called in several times before.

Brian Perez: You have called in several times before. She knows the format, she knows everything. This is great. So let's hear it.

Crystal: My basic question is how do I tell a family member that sexually abused me as a child that I'm not interested in his recovery work in a way that does not cause him any shame, or at least lessen the likelihood of causing him shame?

So the back story is that this family member previously disclosed that he sexually abused me in a way that I felt like I was just a part of his recovery program. I eventually forgave him not only for the abuse, but also the way that he told me, and this has probably been at least 10 years between these two incidents.

Since then, I have had to set some boundaries with him. I know just because of his life event he is now going through recovery again and I just received a text message from him today that basically says, "I owe you a heart-felt apology and I'm 60 days into my program and I'm crushing it." There were some other things in the text message that were also triggering, but that's sort of just the highlight of what I'm dealing with and need to figure out how I'm going to respond.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Crystal, just to clarify, you said he admitted to you. So are you aware he abused you?

Crystal: I was aware before he told me everything that he told me. I had one memory of one incident as a child. I wasn't aware of the extent of the abuse.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay. So he brought this to your awareness and you've had to deal with that now. It sounds like in his recovery, he's trying to make amends to you. But for you, you're not in a place where that's helpful to you.

Crystal: If it was a sincere amends, then I might be open, but the way that he's saying, "Oh, I need to apologize to you and I'm 60 days into my program," it just feels like a repeated cycle and I'm not interested in being a part of this repeated cycle with him.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. Of just helping him to feel better at your expense is what it sounds like.

JJ West: One of the key components of a recovery program, when you get to Steps 8 and 9 and it talks about making amends, one of the key phrases that they use is that you seek to make amends except where doing so would cause further harm to those who you've harmed before.

In this case, that's the situation, that his attempts to make amends is actually causing more harm to you. You're not obligated to participate in that at all, Crystal. I'm glad that you're calling and asking this question because I think it indicates you already kind of know that. His recovery is not your responsibility. His healing is not your responsibility. You don't have to be revictimized, you don't have to walk through the pain again in order for him to feel better.

If you are at a place where emotionally and mentally and physically you can and want to do that, to offer that to him, you could. But you're not obligated to do that, okay? His recovery is his responsibility, your recovery is your responsibility, right? You have your own recovery that you're working through as a survivor of sexual abuse, but you're not required to participate with him in his recovery. You're not required to give him an audience for him to make an amends.

You're not required to do any of that. If he was doing good therapy, if he's doing good group work, he should have a group leader or an individual therapist who's telling him you only make amends where doing so would not cause further harm. If she's saying she's not open to that, she's not ready for that, she's not interested in that, then you respect that boundary.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And so I think you just develop a statement that you let him know, that you each are in your own process, you're glad he's getting help, but that you think that Step 9 comes into play here and that you guys are at different spots and ask him if he could just respect that.

Brian Perez: What if he doesn't think that he's doing harm, that he's injuring Crystal in this way?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: But she's telling him. Like look at Step 9. I'm not in the same spot you are and I wish you well. I'm going to work on myself and I'm glad you're working on yourself. Basically, I'm not going to be the person that you bounce all of this off of because he's like asking you to contain him, which is another form of emotional abuse when she was already abused. So I think it's important, Crystal, for you to have that boundary for yourself.

JJ West: Crystal, do you have anybody in your family that can be your advocate if he doesn't respect that boundary, if he still tries to be involved and get you involved in his recovery? Do you have anybody in the family who can be an advocate for you to go to him and say, "Listen, you need to respect her boundary and not try and involve her in your recovery"?

Crystal: I don't think I need that. Like I said, I have had to set boundaries with him previously, and so I would be willing to set a pretty hard boundary with him.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So you feel comfortable handling that. I think it's just maybe too that you need support in this again. You're the one that was victimized and you're having to be the adult here. So just having support, maybe even someone, a friend, someone that you can let in and let them know you're doing this, you're going to set this boundary with him.

Crystal: I definitely have some friends that I would let know what's going on.

JJ West: Good. I don't want you to be alone with this. And you've probably heard me mention this resource before. There's a book called *The Wounded Heart* by Dan Allender and there's also a workbook that goes with it, *Healing the Wounded Heart*. I would encourage you, if you haven't already picked those up, that's a tremendous resource for any survivor of childhood sexual abuse.

Brian Perez: Some people watching and listening might be thinking, why does this guy even have access to Crystal? How does he have her phone number? How does he keep in touch with her?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: He's a family member, right, Crystal?

Crystal: Yes, it's a family member.

Brian Perez: How he keeps reaching out every now and then is just... yeah.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, he is looking for forgiveness for her to let him off the hook, so he's in process.

Brian Perez: All right, Crystal. Thanks for calling in today to New Life LIVE. And that book that JJ mentioned, what's the name of it again, JJ?

JJ West: It's called *The Wounded Heart* by Dan Allender.

Brian Perez: Okay. And we have a lot of other resources too on our website, newlife.com. When you become a 99 for the 1 partner, you help ensure that no one has to face their struggles alone. I mean, look today, we spoke with Crystal and Jan and Carla and Alice, and you're helping us reach the one with struggling or struggling with addiction or destructive habits, the one who feels disconnected from God, family, or community, the one navigating marital betrayal or deep relational conflict, the one weighed down by emotional pain, anxiety, or depression.

Be one of the ones who make a difference on a monthly recurring basis by becoming a 99 for the 1 partner. You can learn more at newlife.com. Thank you so much for whatever you can do. Your generosity changes lives. We have three New Life courses that are starting the first week of May: "Lose It For Life," "Healing Is A Choice," and "Take Your Life Back."

These are 12-week counselor-led online courses that meet one hour per week via Zoom. They're all designed to help you break free from unhealthy patterns and move forward and move toward emotional and spiritual wholeness. Where can you learn about the courses? Well, at newlife.com, of course. You can also call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

My name is Brian Perez. Thank you so much for joining us today, whether online or on the radio or maybe you're catching us on a podcast. So many ways that we can help you. You can find out all those ways at newlife.com. Subscribe to our newsletter, subscribe to our daily devotional, and you'll always know what's going on here at New Life. We'll be back in just a little bit with more of your questions, so standby, don't go anywhere. This is New Life LIVE from New Life Ministries.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: There are several ways that you can get your question to us just in case you can't call in when we're here in the studio. If you go to newlife.com/radio, you'll find out when you can call us here in the studio or instructions for how to leave us a voicemail or how to send us an email. What we'll do is we'll try to read your question here or play it back on the show if it's a voicemail and then we'll let you know so that you can tune in and listen to the advice that was given.

Here's one of those questions that was submitted online. It is from Jeremy who asks, "How can I be dad to an 11-year-old stepson when his mother says he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to?"

Here's the back story. "I was in a relationship with a woman who already had a son. When we got together at first, he was a little more than a year old. He's now 11, but we are no longer together. During that time, we also had a son of our own. For all purposes, I'm still dad to the older son. His biological father has had nothing to do with him since he was two.

I decided to give my life to Christ in March of 2025. This was a big change for me and for my children, so much so that they have fought against me on this. They've told me that might be what's best for you, but that's not what's best for me. That alone is heartbreaking for me and is a big and sore subject. Their mother, my ex, has told them that they don't have to go to church with me if they don't want to. She has told them that they don't have to read the Bible with me if they don't want to.

I'm doing my best to respect that and still be a man of God and still speak truth to both of my children. What this has turned into with my oldest son is a deep sense of 'I don't have to if I don't want to.' He argues with me if I ask him to do anything from taking a shower to cleaning his room. He will also just not do it at least half of the time. He told me that he can't give in and do it because if he does, then that means Dad wins. He refuses to feel as though he was defeated—his words on these things.

What I'm asking for is advice on how to navigate this. I really do want to be dad for him because I love him very much. Between his rebellious nature, many of the attributes of Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and his mother saying that he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to, my hands are getting tied. How do I be a dad with handcuffs on?" What do you say, JJ?

JJ West: Oh, that's a significant challenge to face, for sure. So, Jeremy, I feel for you. Couple of things to keep in mind here. One, because there's several different factors. You've got the stepdad/stepson factor. I say to all stepparents it's really important, especially when you're stepping into that role with a child that's already got a relationship with their biological, in this case, the mother, that you're stepping into a role like what a good aunt or uncle would be in the child's life as opposed to their biological parent.

That means that you still have tremendous influence in their life. It's not like you're just some bystander, you have tremendous influence in their life, and you certainly can have rules around your household. A lot of the stuff that Jeremy talked about in this, some of it is a spiritual dimension like, okay, yeah, you can't make them be a Christian if they don't want to, you can't make them read their Bible or go to church with you. I'm not going to force my belief system on you.

But when you live in a household with other people, there are just rules that we follow to keep the household running. That's the truth no matter where you go. Wherever I live, there are rules that I have to follow. In this case, the stepdad can have some rules around how the house runs in terms of cleanliness, in terms of chores and that sort of thing. I would encourage Jeremy, if you haven't already, that you sit down with the mom and say, listen, we need to... well, not the ex-wife, I think he was still married to her?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: No, I think it's the ex-wife who had an 11-year-old and they had a son together. But he's still involved in that 11-year-old's life as well is what he's saying. Okay. So he's no longer in the relationship with her.

JJ West: Okay. But he's still involved in that 11-year-old's life as well? It's still the case, even if they're not living together. I think it's important to say, "Hey, could we sit down with a therapist, a parenting coach, to talk about what it looks like for us to co-parent?" Even though I'm not the biological father, I'm the only father that this child really has known. Because he spends time with me, maybe he stays with him, let's sit down with someone to talk about how we can co-parent so that basic rules and basic household boundaries, chores, things like that, are able to be communicated in a healthy way.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. And that's very reasonable to do, JJ, but a lot of times an ex-spouse will be fighting the ex-marriage partner and not considering what's best for the children. Really, this mom is doing a disservice to her children as a way of getting back at him. I know. I raised my kids with an antagonistic non-co-parent and it is very difficult.

It causes children a little bit to have to grow up a little faster in some ways or take responsibility for themselves. So sometimes if you don't have the cooperation of the other parent... I remember when my kids tried, "Well, I'm just going to go to Dad's house then," or "I'm just going to do this." And I said, "Sure, you could do that." Because cooperation is a choice.

What I'm asking you, and a lot of times with boys they do feel like they need to win, so what I'm asking you is to choose to cooperate because it's in your best interest. These kids aren't open to God, but it's like and God does see the heart, and every person has to come to terms with their own right and wrong. So I think to start appealing to that early on, that sure, you can go do whatever you want, but will that make you the best possible person? Because ultimately, you're accountable for growing yourself. They may be a little young for that, but a variation of getting them to take personal responsibility for their choices instead of just deflecting, "Well, Mom says I don't have to."

JJ West: Well, and I love the idea of cooperation because there's going to be times where you want me to cooperate with you. And if you're uncooperative with me, chances are I'm not going to be all that excited about being cooperative with you later, right?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: But it is giving them a choice in a sense. When they feel like they have a choice, then it feels less like a demand and sometimes they're more apt to do that. But I also like what you said, JJ, that each household has its own set of rules. And that's fine, your mom says that when you're at her house, but guess what? I have a different set of rules and just like at school, you might have different teachers that require different things, you have different parents that require different things. And so in my house, this is what we're going to do. Now, if you choose not to participate, I'll be sad about that and we'll miss you, and I hope you will choose to participate in some issues.

JJ West: Right. That's what I'm saying is that everywhere I go, wherever I live, there are rules that I have to follow. Even if I own my own house, I live in an HOA that has rules that I have to follow. If I'm in an apartment, there are rules I have to follow based on the apartment complex. There's always some guidelines that I have to follow wherever whatever space I'm in.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. Real quick, I think before getting into the rules, you've got to work on the connection. So doing things that are fun with these boys, showing that you're interested in them, you care about them. Then they're also more apt to cooperate.

Brian Perez: All right, guys. Talk to you next week.

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