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New Life LIVE: March 17, 2026

March 17, 2026
00:00

Caller Questions & Discussion:

  1. JJ shares a powerful story from the world of sports that reminds us that God is not only omnipotent but also a loving Father who deeply cares for us. Because of His love, we can bring our shortcomings to Him and trust that He listens.
  2. I’ve been in an avoidant relationship for 10 years. We’re both retired. But when I set a boundary with him, he broke up with me. What should I do?
  3. How do I manage my clutter? My mom struggled with clutter too. I’m not a hoarder, but as an adult I’m realizing these habits have followed me.
  4. How can I disconnect from my adult children’s drama? They ask me to hold them accountable, but they don’t listen—and I’m exhausted.
  5. I’ve been baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and also in the name of Jesus only; what’s the difference?

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

O'Brien Perez: Happy St. Patrick's Day from New Life Live. I'm your host, O'Brien Perez, decked out in a greenish-blue hue. Today we'll be in the studio for two hours ready to assist you in your walk with God and with people. New Life Live hosts have been through it themselves and are ready to share proven strategies.

Your breakthrough begins the moment you pick up the phone. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. I'll give it out again throughout the show if you need to write it down. Clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard's on today as well as licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West, who's also the presenter at our Every Man's Battle and Intimacy and Marriage workshops. JJ, how'd you like to start the show today?

JJ West: Well, I'm actually going to give you a choice: option one or two because I've been wrestling with which option to share, which thought to share. So it's either going to be option one or option two. I'm not going to tell you which they are; you can just have to choose which one.

O'Brien Perez: Okay, I will say two.

JJ West: Two. Option two. All right, option two comes from the sports world. So this weekend I was watching a softball game and I was watching a replay. I already had seen the score, so I knew what was going to happen, but I wanted to watch it because it's my favorite team, my Seminoles were playing. So I had to watch, but I already knew the outcome.

Now, what's interesting when you watch a sporting event when you already know the outcome: you would think that nothing would phase you. You would just be totally calm; I already know what's going to happen. So if something bad happened to my team or good for the other team, it wouldn't phase me at all. But here's the thing: I care so deeply about my beloved Seminoles that even if I know the outcome, if a bad play happens, I'm still emotionally responsive to that. And here's what's interesting about that for me in terms of a theological implication.

God knows the outcome. He's not bound by time. He already knows the beginning from the end. He knows the outcome. And the truth is we even know the outcome because we have the end of the book. But he knows the outcome, but that doesn't mean that he's not emotionally invested because he loves us. He loves us way more than I even love my beloved Seminoles, which is hard for me to even imagine because I love my beloved Seminoles so much.

But God loves us so intimately and so completely that he is affected, emotionally responsive to the things that happen to us, the bad things that happen to us in our world. It doesn't, just because he's omniscient, knows all, and just because he is outside of our timeframe, doesn't mean that he is uninterested in what happens to us, unmoved by what happens to us. He is deeply.

And because of that, because he's not just an omnipotent, all-powerful God, but he's a good father who loves us deeply, we can go to him in our pain. We can go to him in our crises. We can go to him in our failures. We can go to him in our shortcomings, and we have a father who listens and cares about what's happening in our world. And so if that's you today, we invite you to call.

O'Brien Perez: And if you're not a sports fan or a Seminoles fan, the same can be said about movies. I mean, how often have you watched the same movie and you know how it's going to turn out, but when the bad guy is winning, you're like, "Oh, this is horrible. I hope the good guy wins." You know the good guy's going to win, but we still panic and freak out and everything else. But that's how we are.

All right, going to take a quick break and then we'll get to the phones. I see Kathy and Helen and we're waiting for you to call in. We've got lots of phone lines. 1-800-229-3000 and we're going to be in the studio for two hours today. So grab an open line while there's still time. 1-800-229-3000. We'll be right back.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-New-Life. Now, back to New Life Live.

O'Brien Perez: 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call and you might have heard us use the phrase "do it afraid" on this show. We get it. Picking up the phone and calling 1-800-229-3000 might feel scary, but nothing will change if you don't take that first step. So today, just do it, afraid as you may be. Call us and share what's going on. Let this be the day your healing begins.

Let's go to the phones now. Here is Kathy in Wilmington, Delaware, who listens to us on WAVA. Welcome, Kathy, thanks for calling in today. How can we help you?

Kathy: Hi, I'm in an avoidant-anxious relationship and we've been together 10 years. Recently there's been life changes: retirement and just age and grown children. I sought help a few years ago because I didn't know what it was, but I knew something wasn't right. That was a few years ago and then right after the holidays, I just couldn't do it anymore. I was exhausted.

So I had to leave. I left after he pulled away: the blame, the breakup, and all that. And then after about three weeks, he reached out and I was slow, hesitant, and I did have a few meetings with him, but then I felt anxious. Like, all those feelings that I was working on came up. A couple weeks ago, he tried to have access to come to my house because his friends were going to be in town and I set up a boundary and he didn't like it. So he broke up with me again.

So where I am right now is I just feel stuck and I feel like I'm focusing too much on this pattern and everything and I just want to live my life. I've been making changes for myself, doing exercise, meditation, just looking inward to be a better me.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, Kathy, thanks for calling today and I'm sorry that you are in this situation. Ten years is a long time to be in a relationship. Kathy, just to clarify, is this a relationship where you each maintained your separate residences or were you living together?

Kathy: In the beginning, we were living together because of where my job was, but then when I retired a few years ago, I came to my residence to work on renovations. So then it was pretty much like a weekend or whenever, like that. So we were still together even though now he says we never were, that it was companionship, not partnership, but that's not true.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. So in hindsight, you're each defining the relationship differently. It does sound like he has been very reactive. I would imagine hurt and wanting to make it all your fault instead of being able to honestly look at the relationship. You have been feeling out of sorts for a while. Have you guys done any talking about your relationship? Is there any ability to do that?

Because it sounds like now you're not married, so you're free to do this, but you've made a lot of decisions independent of him. It is true that some of the living together was out of convenience and proximity. So are you able to talk about the relationship?

Kathy: Every time I have tried to calmly bring up things, he just starts yelling, "Stop! Stop!" or something like that, like a toddler.

O'Brien Perez: Wow.

JJ West: Kathy, let me ask you a question here. Why are you working so hard to stay in this relationship?

Kathy: I don't know. That's what I need to figure out. I mean, because I've been married, divorced, and I think it was the same dynamic and we tend to repeat picking the same person. Yeah, I'm mad at myself for that. I mean, I do care about this person. I mean, we've had a lot of good times as well, but as of recent, like when things, like they say, are starting to get real because our life is changing with retirement and age and all that and grandchildren, he just retreats.

JJ West: Is he also retired?

Kathy: He just did. Yeah, in December.

JJ West: No doubt you care for him, otherwise you wouldn't even be giving this any thought. So of course you care for him. You care about him and you want good to happen to him, but that doesn't automatically translate to "I should be in a romantic relationship with this person." Sometimes someone that I care about, that I want good things to happen for and I don't want bad things to happen for, is just not a good person for me.

Our dynamic when we're together, the gears just don't line up. They don't mesh. And so it's constantly, if you've ever driven a stick shift, it's constantly grinding gears and it just doesn't have a good fit. Now, that doesn't mean that we can't work on things and as Jill was talking about, maybe we do some counseling together to work on and grow, but it does take both of us. It requires both of us to be working on the relationship. And so far, what I'm hearing certainly is you've been trying to do some work, you've been trying to make some changes, but he's resisting those changes. Is that pretty accurate?

Kathy: Yes. When I did mention something about going to counseling, he balked like, "I'm not going to a woman," or something like that.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, there are men counselors as you're talking to JJ.

JJ West: Sure, there are, but that raises a question, right? Does that mean he doesn't value a woman, doesn't value her opinion, doesn't value her perspective? And then again, it raises the question: why do I want to be in a romantic relationship with a man who does not value women when I am a woman in a relationship with him?

I'm not saying that it's an automatic no, but it raises a red flag, or it should raise a red flag that says: is this someone that I want to share my life with and make decisions together about our life? And right now, I'm not hearing a lot of upside to this romantic relationship. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I'm not hearing a lot of upside to why you want to stay in.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, I'm also hearing that you're hitting up against some of his limitations, Kathy. And there's been a lot of recent change for him. He just retired in December. And so what is he telling himself about that? And then when you tell me when you try to talk to him, he says "Stop, stop" and he's yelling. That usually means he's feeling backed into a corner, which avoidants often do feel that way.

And that he, like, doesn't know how or can't tolerate whatever it is you're saying, like he's getting flooded. It's too much for him. And this is why a lot of times people become avoidants because it's a protection. And so with someone like this, you can't charge them. You have to invite them though. I mean, you can invite them. It's like, "I'd love to talk about this when you're ready, what feels comfortable to you." And to also say you're willing to work on this. It's not like you're just leaving, but that just some awareness of how he regresses in those moments when you try to go a little deeper and talk about the two of you.

So as long as everything was in place and it was meeting his needs, it sounds like he was in. That worked for him. But now with the changes, you're seeing his limitations. And so it's going to be a little more slowly going.

JJ West: I totally agree with that, Jill. If he is avoidant, which sounds like he is, it's going to be so important for you to invite and to invite his perspective. What is it that you're looking for in this relationship? What do you hoping that it will lead to? What do you want it to look like? And it may be that what he wants it to look like doesn't line up with what you want it to look like. Or maybe there's just subtle differences and we can work on those together, but you do have to hear from him what it is that he is wanting from the relationship to decide whether or not that fits with your vision of what you want the relationship to be.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And don't get hung up on words. It sounds like he's calling it "companionship" and okay, but he's still been with you. Right? And look at the actions, not just the words because maybe again, he can't tolerate saying, "Well, this was a real relationship because now you've hurt me and that means I've lost something." That feels too bad for him. So he's calling it "it was just companionship," he's minimizing the relationship.

Kathy: So should I continue with the path of seeking help or wait for him to come back to me since he's in this push-pull cycle right now? We're on week two. It usually lasts about three weeks. Or should I just say that we need to get help or where do you—

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Maybe you just say, "I'm here when you're ready to talk."

Kathy: Just text "I'm here when you're ready to talk"?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Yeah. And in the meantime, you go on doing the self-care that you've been doing.

O'Brien Perez: We've got a webinar coming up this Thursday and, Kathy, we'll send you a free registration for it. It's called Understanding Your Attachment Style. You did mention anxious-avoider, so I think you know a little bit about these things, but I think it would be very helpful for you to sit through this 90-minute webinar which includes 30 minutes of Q&A so you can ask your questions there.

It's this Thursday at 7:00 PM Central Time and everyone else, you can sign up by texting the word "webinar" to 28950. You can also go to newlife.com or call 1-800-New-Life, but it's happening this Thursday at 7:00 PM Central Time. And if you can't make it this Thursday, register anyway because after the webinar is done, we'll send you a link where you can watch it again for the next seven days or so. So again, go to newlife.com or text the word "webinar" to 28950.

Let's talk to Helen in New Brunswick, who listens to us on SiriusXM channel 131. Hi there, Helen. What's going on?

Helen: Hi, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. The reason I'm calling is I've had an opportunity here—I'm calling in to address an issue I've been dealing with most of my adult life, which is "clutterbug," quote-unquote "hoarding." Not to an extreme like what you see on TV, but enough to make life uncomfortable for my family: my husband, myself, and our son when he was home with us.

But he has since been married now a couple of years to a lovely girl. But I feel as though—I see, actually, observe that some of the issues I have had have passed on to him. And also my husband has become very frustrated and disillusioned. He's been retired now for two years and so he just recently started packing some stuff up and cleaning up in the basement and I go, "No, no, don't throw that out! I've got to be looking at that." And it's been sitting there for five years; I haven't touched it.

So my background is four of us in my family. My mother died when I was 12. I have an older sibling, a year older than myself, a younger sister, about two years younger than myself, and a younger brother. And so our family split up when my mother passed, our mother and father separated. That's a whole other story there. So my mother was very much of a clutterbug as well, a long line in that family. So I was very surprised it came back to me in my adult years. But I had it controlled for a while when I was working full time. Now it's just come back full circle very strongly.

O'Brien Perez: Well, Helen, we've got to take a break here on the show, but stay on the phone. We'll talk to you when we come back here on New Life Live. And if you'd like to talk about whatever it is you're struggling with, you know that there's something going on. Maybe you're not sure what it is, but there's a mental block or who knows. Give us a call. 1-800-229-3000. Dr. Jill Hubbard and JJ West are going to be here for the rest of this hour and all of next. So call in and tell a friend too.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-New-Life. Now, back to New Life Live.

O'Brien Perez: And back to the phones. Here is Helen. You still with us, Helen?

Helen: Yes, I am. Just on my speakerphone now. Is that good?

O'Brien Perez: Yeah, you sound a little bit more clear. That's good. So, Jill or JJ, do you have any follow-up questions for Helen? I'm sure you do.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I was wondering, Helen, when you mentioned your husband's retired and so he's starting cleaning and you said, "No, no, no," so I was wondering what you were feeling when he started touching your stuff and cleaning it up.

Helen: That's an interesting question because I have, as a believer, I have asked the Lord to reveal things to me and I do see some roots going back to probably more of my childhood, which I think by now I've been past that. We did go for counseling, a Christian counseling with good therapists many, many years ago when I had an eating disorder when I was in my early 20s and that was wonderful for helping us to resolve it.

But in either case, yeah, I just think it's more of letting go, letting go of things that brought joy, brought happiness, of a sense of things that brought fulfillment. Let me go back to that sometime because that may have meaning to me again because it did one time before. And I think there's something in there and if I throw it out, God forbid I won't be able to find it again. And just, "Oh, you know, let's go research all this information." It's not going to be same as what you have already.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right. So the holding on to things, sometimes it's like the stuff becomes an extension of our minds and so it's like a way to hold on to our mind and the fear of forgetting. But I think about how much loss you had at 12 years old and I wonder how you said everybody kind of scattered. So I'm kind of thinking that all of you were left to deal with this on your own.

And certainly as a young person trying to make sense of loss and death, we make sense of it in all kinds of ways, but we also want to hold on to what was lost. We want to hold on to the memories and that fear that okay, things are slipping away. You're also mentioning an eating disorder, so coping with the anxiety that probably came up in losing your mom at such a young age is something you were trying to do. Food helps to quiet the feelings, quiet the anxiety, as does the stuff. It's kind of like adding on the layers right to our body as well as insulating our stuff. Sometimes it's a way of keeping the bad at bay.

JJ West: Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned that this went away for a while or was managed a little better and then it was come back again. Can I ask about what time it came back into your life?

Helen: I believe it started more when I stopped working full time. There's a transition in my life and then at that time I guess my job gave me—brought to me much fulfillment feeling I was contributing and doing something fulfilling and worthwhile. Yet another loss of a feeling of fulfillment.

JJ West: When did your son move out?

Helen: Four years ago.

JJ West: And when did you retire?

Helen: I'm semi-retired. Actually, I'm on a break right now. I work part-time, but I have through time right now away from my client to finish up. But when did that happen? That happened in 2019, 2020.

JJ West: So right around—I mean, we're talking about a two-year difference, right? So there were two major life events happened, two major losses took place and oftentimes what happens is when we experience loss, if we have a wound already from a childhood loss, it reactivates that wound. And so it doesn't surprise me that some of your same coping strategies that you had in your early days that helped you cope with the anxiety, cope with the loss, resurfaced now because you're experiencing similar emotional triggers.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And even though your son getting married and moving on in life means you've done a good job and there's good feelings in that, it's still a loss of him being at home or the relationship in the way it was. It's different now.

JJ West: Yeah. So it might be helpful, Helen, to pursue like an individual counselor to talk about the anxiety and talk about the loss and finding some healthy strategies for how to handle those things rather than using these old behaviors that worked for a time but really aren't working for you anymore.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Yeah. And also depending on where you are at hormonally in the menopause cycle, anything you have felt when you are young comes up in spades in perimenopause. So I don't know where you're at in that, but anxiety will definitely increase.

O'Brien Perez: We have an article on newlife.com. We'll put a link to it in the show notes there. It's called The Do's and Don'ts of Helping Someone with Compulsive Hoarding. Now, Helen mentioned that her husband started to pack up all her things and take them to the basement. Is that one of the do's or the don'ts? What would you guys say?

JJ West: Well, I wouldn't just do it without having a conversation first. I don't think that hiding the stuff is the solution, but sometimes it does require some action in saying what are we going to do with these things now.

O'Brien Perez: All right, Helen. Thank you so much for calling today to New Life Live. And we've got more of your phone calls and questions coming up, so call in. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. If you're watching us on Facebook or YouTube, thank you so much for watching. Make sure you click like and subscribe and follow and all that good stuff and give us high rankings, you know, five stars because we like those. But if you have a question for Dr. Jill Hubbard or JJ West, 1-800-229-3000 is our number. We're going to be here for the rest of this hour and all of next. So call in and tell a friend too.

Becky Brown: Hello, it's Becky Brown and I am so excited to launch our 99 for the One partner initiative. Every day we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. And it reminds us of the story in Luke 15 where the shepherd leaves the 99 to go rescue the one.

And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the One is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-New-Life, 1-800-639-5433 or newlife.com/99for1.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-New-Life. Now, back to New Life Live.

O'Brien Perez: Guys, if sexual integrity is your secret struggle, you don't have to fight alone. JJ West leads the Every Man's Battle workshop, which is a three-day in-person intensive where licensed Christian counselors and a brotherhood of men help you break the cycle of porn, affairs, and sexual secrets and begin rebuilding trust with God and the people you love.

Our next weekend workshop starts April 24th in Washington, DC with an early bird discount in effect through April 10th. JJ, besides the great discount, why should guys register for EMB?

JJ West: Well, definitely take advantage of the discount; that's huge. You know, it's just what you said: it is a life-changing event because it's not just an event. It's not just a weekend and then, you know how you sometimes have those spiritual retreats and you feel like you're on a mountaintop and then after a week or two afterwards, everything just kind of simmers back down to the way it's always been.

EMB is the beginning of a new journey of doing life in community rather than isolation. When we're in isolation, we are easily picked off, but when we're in community, we have support, we have encouragement, we have men who are willing to ask us those tough questions that keep us moving forward and able to walk in integrity. So it's a life-changing event because of the relationships that are built. Yes, there's good information—I'm particularly fond of the information that we present—but it's not just information, it is the relationships that are built among the other men that are there as well as with your facilitator that continues on after the workshop is over.

O'Brien Perez: You can find all the details at newlife.com. And a new episode of the Every Man's Battle podcast dropped yesterday. You can watch or listen as JJ and co-host Doug Barnes talk directly to two audiences at once: younger men who need guidance and older men who need to step into the calling of mentoring the next generation. Young men without mentors leaves them confused about relationships and values. Older men don't step up because they don't think they have anything to offer. Find the latest episode of Every Man's Battle at newlife.com, on our YouTube channel and app, and wherever you get your podcasts.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Can I just mention something real quick about our last caller for Helen and for others? I just want to re-mention that Clutterers Anonymous is a great 12-step group and they have really good material. You can even go online and find their material. They talk a lot about mind clutter, which often needs to be cleared out before we can actually deal with the concrete clutter.

O'Brien Perez: Clutterers Anonymous. All right, check that out. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Happy St. Paddy's Day, I'm O'Brien Perez. Dr. Jill Hubbard and JJ West are with us too and let's go back to the phones. Here is Joni in Bentonville, Arkansas, who listens to us on SiriusXM channel 131. Joni, are you wearing green today? We can't tell.

Joni: I am and my shirt says lucky. Isn't that fun? Yeah. Okay, so I don't know if the screener had told you my question.

O'Brien Perez: She did and I can read it off the screen here and it says, "How do I disconnect from my adult children's drama?" So what's going on?

Joni: Well, I have several children and they are all doing very well adulting and raising their children in the way of the Lord and I'm so proud of each one of them. And this one couple, they started out living together, living life real messy and it's just been messy. And they do go to church. We've given them great tools and even a week ago, me and their dad had a good conversation about living their life according to God's will for them so they can raise their children in a way that will not be dramatic as their life is right now.

And so we've been going through this since they've been married since 2019 and I'm just to a point that, to be honest with you, I'm worn out. I'm exhausted because the advice that we give them is like—I just don't get it. They're not listening and I'm just like, guys, listen, go live your life, figure it out. We cannot be your counselor. You've got to get some help away from your parents. It gets a little too close.

When I decided to call this afternoon, I thought it might be a confirmation for me, but it might help somebody else because I talk to a lot of adult parents with adult children and they struggle with a lot of these issues and I don't want to give them wrong direction, but I also need to have confirmation on my side that I can still love my kids, but they have to make these choices. I cannot make them do anything.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Joni, are they asking you? Are they coming and asking you or are you just witnessing their life and jumping in?

Joni: I would say both. When they come to me and they say, "We want accountability, we want you guys to call us and keep us accountable," we're like, "Okay, but we're not going to be easy on you. We're going to shoot you straight." And then we get crickets. So then, and so this last time I told my husband yesterday, I said, "I care but I don't care." I said, "I'm worn out." I said, "You know, they have to choose this life for themselves, I can't choose it for them and they're not listening and I don't know what else to do."

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, I love that they want accountability. I think that's a good sign; they have some awareness there and okay, they're starting with parents because you guys love them and understand. But like when you've gone around that merry-go-round and it hasn't worked, then you've got to do something different.

And I agree with you, you can't be their therapist full-time and you can't ultimately be their accountability because see what it's doing for you is you're getting more and more invested because they've asked something of you and you're a good parent, "Okay, I want to do this," then you get more and more invested and invested in the outcome. It's harder for a parent to hold it loosely. And they don't have a fear of losing your love or your approval necessarily or right, so the accountability doesn't work as well.

It's convenient and it feels safe for them, but it doesn't really work. If they wanted real accountability, then they would need to do some things on their own and get other people and get into therapy and things like that that might really help.

JJ West: Part of the challenge is in how we're defining accountability. Sometimes when we say, "Oh, I want accountability, I want you to hold me accountable," it's like I'm asking you to somehow enforce consequences so that I have to change, which doesn't work. That's not what accountability is. Accountability is that I give an account. If I'm asking for accountability, it means that I'm coming to you and giving an account of what I've done and the consequences of those choices as opposed to you holding me accountable, you make me do one thing or not do another.

Because that doesn't work. I don't have that ability. You said it yourself just a minute ago: we don't have the ability to make somebody do something or not do something. I can only work on myself. But what I can offer is good mentorship and this might be where you go and listen to yesterday's episode of the Every Man's Battle podcast. But we talk about having a mentoring role where I can share from my experiences, I can point you in good directions, but I can't make you change behavior. That's something you have to work on, which means I can't rescue you from the consequences of choices that you've made. Which means, Joni, you have to let go of the outcome. Giving advice is like giving money: once it's given, you have to let go of it. Very true.

O'Brien Perez: We have a resource in the newlife.com store that might help you. It's called Doing Life with Your Adult Children by our friend Dr. Jim Burns. There's also an article on our website newlife.com: Helping Without Enabling. We'll drop links to both on our show notes. We'll be right back. 1-800-229-3000.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-New-Life. Now, back to New Life Live.

O'Brien Perez: Every day we come alongside people in crisis, offering not just good advice, but also a path to real healing. With your support, New Life connects people to biblically based truth, compassionate counsel, and practical tools that lead to lasting change. This is only possible because of our generous supporters. To make a gift, call 1-800-New-Life or you can give online at newlife.com or text N-L-M to 28950.

And when you become a 99 for the One partner, your monthly gift powers counseling, intensives, and this broadcast so more lives are restored in Christ. You can learn more about becoming a 99 for the One partner today at newlife.com/99for1. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call us today here at New Life Live and we're just about done with this hour, but we're going to be in the studio for another hour, so you can keep calling us and you'll be able to ask your question of clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard and licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West.

Family questions, marital questions, anything like that. Answered a question about hoarding a little bit earlier, so whatever struggles, anything goes. No topic off the table. Let's go to Jeremy in Bloomington, Indiana, who watches us on YouTube. So we'll wave hi to Jeremy. Thanks for calling today. What's your question?

Jeremy: Hi, guys, how are we doing today? Good. I have a question about—is there a particular way that we should be baptized, either in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit, or in Jesus' name? What is the difference between that?

O'Brien Perez: Now, why do you ask, Jeremy?

Jeremy: I have been baptized in both names, but I just don't understand what the difference is between them.

O'Brien Perez: When you say you've been baptized both ways, is that what you mean? More than once?

Jeremy: Yeah.

O'Brien Perez: Okay, and why was that? Why did you decide to be baptized again? Was that something the church required of you or something you wanted to do?

Jeremy: Something that I wanted to do.

JJ West: Okay, gotcha. So technically speaking, there really isn't a big difference between these two. So in the book of Acts, you see baptisms happening in the name of Jesus, where Peter baptizes people in the name of Jesus, and you see other times where they're baptized in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. It's not a difference because God, Jesus was God in the flesh living among us. He was the human representation of the Trinity: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

So there's really not a difference between these two. Now, there is one small denomination or sect of a church that says the Trinity doesn't exist and we just save people in the name of Jesus, we just preach Jesus, we don't talk about the Father or the Holy Spirit. I don't think that that is a safe and accurate reading of scripture because we see the Trinity show up over and over and over all throughout the scripture from Genesis all the way to Revelation. We see the Trinity in action.

So I don't think that that is accurate, but you see among churches, sometimes people will say we baptize you in the name of Jesus, sometimes you see people say we baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. There's no difference fundamentally in terms of what baptism is, which is just an outward sign of an inward decision. I'm just publicly proclaiming to the world that I've made a decision to turn my life over to Jesus and accept his sacrifice for me. That's all baptism is. It doesn't save me; it's just a proclamation. There's no difference between the two. So it's not something that you have to—"Oh, if I only got baptized one way, I have to get baptized another way." It's not like it didn't work.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I wonder, Jeremy—and I don't know how old you were the first time—I know as a kid, I had a Catholic baptism or people have a baby dedication and then as I got older and was of an age to really understand a personal relationship with the Lord, then for me, I wanted to get baptized as an expression of that because I was now making my faith my own.

And so sometimes it's that. Sometimes people fear that, "Am I really saved? Did I really—" And if we have a lot of anxiety or we're a bit obsessive-compulsive, we want to do it again because somehow we feel like we're lacking something. And so it's easy to then kind of major on these minor points instead of looking: okay, what's getting in the way of me understanding and accepting that I'm a child of God? Why am I not believing God in what he's saying? What am I fearing about myself? Why do I think that somehow I'm outside of his grace or I'm not sure that I'm saved? So I would be looking more at those issues than focusing on this more of a minor issue that, as you said, JJ, it isn't determinant of one's salvation.

O'Brien Perez: Yeah, I wonder too if people—and I'm not saying Jeremy's doing this—but you come to faith in Christ and then maybe you get caught up in sins that you thought you had conquered and then but you're still having problems and so you say, "Well, I'm just going to get baptized again and I'm going to do it right this time." It's like a cleansing. So it's just this over and over where you're not resting secure, you're not assured. Like you said, Jill, it's like you're not believing that his gift of forgiveness and that your repentance is enough, a sincere repentance is enough.

JJ West: Which we're in a long line of people who struggled with that, right? I mean, Peter, you know, when Jesus went to wash his feet, he's like, "Oh no, no, you can't wash my feet." And then he's like, "If I can't wash your feet, you have no part of me." "Oh, wash my whole body!" Give me everything I need to be able to follow you. And Jesus is like, "You already have it, Peter. It's okay. Calm down."

And we do the same thing: we keep looking for that silver bullet, we're looking for that secret sauce, magic formula that's going to make following Jesus go well. It's a struggle.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, in some people, I've had people, they're looking for a feeling. They're looking for—instead of accepting the peace in knowing and the assurance of Christ, they think they're supposed to kind of be euphoric and they keep looking for that as some kind of sign.

O'Brien Perez: All right, Jeremy. Thank you for calling us today here on New Life Live and we're going to be in the studio for another hour. So if you'd like to call in, 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Be sure to visit newlife.com for details on all that we've got going on: workshops, webinars, and courses galore plus recovery groups and a whole lot more. Don't just visit newlife.com, bookmark it, check back often, subscribe to our newsletter, our daily devotions, follow us on social media, and call in for the next hour. 1-800-229-3000.

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