New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: We're about a month away from Independence Day in the good old USA, but you can have real freedom starting today. This is New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and I'm joined in the studio by licensed marriage and family therapist Mark Cameron, author of Understanding Your Attachment Style. It's available in the NewLife.com store. Parenting expert Jim Burns is here too. He's got a new book in our store as well. It's called When Your Adult Child Strays. Jim is also the founder of Homeword, and I'll bet he's got some words of wisdom to get us started.

Jim Burns: I do. I'm going to talk about relationships today. We all have complicated relationships all the time. We just do. But I had an experience a while ago and I want to share this with you and why it's so key. I had an experience where I was up in the lunchroom at eHarmony.com. I've done some consulting for them, and Neil Clark Warren is one of my true heroes and mentors in my life. He was the founder.

I said, "What is the secret to a healthy relationship?" Without a moment's hesitation, he looked up at me and said, "I would give everybody a box, wrap it up, and inside that box would be adaptability." I asked what he meant by adaptability. He said you have to be flexible. Stuff happens in your life. If you're adaptable, you're going to do much, much better. He said he would throw in a little bit of positivity. For me, two words rise above the rest when it comes to relationships: positive adaptability.

It really makes a major difference. Kathy and I are very different people. We've been married 52 years. When we first got married, she was an introvert and I'm an extrovert. That still is the case, but it bugged me 52 years ago. Today, it doesn't bug me. I've just embraced that she's going to have a much healthier conversation with one person at a party, and I'm going to talk to everybody about those Dodgers and how they're doing and not have as deep and meaningful of a conversation.

To be honest, I now embrace that. Kathy is a detail person and I am not a detail person. So, guess who does our banking? Kathy. That's because I just round things up, and she thinks that's gross. Maybe you think that's gross, too. But I have a phrase that has really helped me in my relationship with Kathy on thinking about positive adaptability. I just use the phrase, "Does it really matter?"

Some things matter. People call us and there's been abuse, adultery, and all kinds of issues that here at New Life we get and that matters. But some things don't matter. If Kathy is going to be late to church again, sometimes that is not a big deal. Yet, it was a big deal, and I think we had fights over that. We don't today. If I'm just going to miss it, that's not as big a deal to me anymore.

I love what Winston Churchill said. He said, "You will never reach the destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks." In a relationship, you can't throw stones at every dog that barks. You may be thinking you wish your spouse could hear that right now. I get it, but maybe you, too. Positive adaptability is something that we call the magic ratio. This is from John Gottman, who's a great marriage therapist.

He says he's never seen anybody get a divorce if they have five positive interactions to one negative interaction. That's what he calls the magic ratio. That's amazing. I'm not saying that's easy. You can be intentional and that can make a huge difference in your relationship. Practice some positive adaptability. It's not easy, but it's a discipline.

Brian Perez: Five to one. That's what he calls the magic ratio. Is that doable?

Jim Burns: He says one to one, and they're either in a stale marriage or on the way to divorce. It makes sense, but I try that in my relationship and it means I have to be very intentional about it.

Brian Perez: Very good. Thank you, Dr. Jim Burns, for those opening remarks here on New Life LIVE. You've got to get his new book. It's called When Your Adult Child Strays. It's available there in the NewLife.com store. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back with your questions. We've got one that was submitted online from Cody in Alaska. We'll get to it when we come back.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: We are here in the studio to answer the questions that you have about your life. We love helping as many people as we can. We also know that not everybody can call in when we're here in the studio, so we've come up with a couple of different ways that you can get your question to us. You can send us an email or leave us a voicemail. You can find out how to do that on our website, NewLife.com/radio.

That gives you the phone number to call or the email address to use to get us your question. But we prefer to hear the sound of your voice, so call in when you can. Here's the question that was submitted online. It's an email from Cody in Alaska. His main question is, "How do I convince my wife that she needs to go to counseling in order to heal?"

Cody says, "This is affecting me and our family. We've had the conversation many times before, but it never goes anywhere. If I have to drag her to counseling, is that what needs to happen, or does she have to want to go on her own? She won't tell me her deepest, darkest secrets because she feels she cannot trust me. She often says I will blab her secrets to everyone. I only talk to other people about issues that affect me and our marriage because I want to help our marriage.

We've been married for 12 years. We have three children. This is the first marriage for each of us. I feel like she's avoiding counseling because of childhood trauma and the pain she would have to deal with. I have had a porn problem in the past that hurt her and our relationship, but for the most part, I've dealt with that issue the best I know how. She says she wants me to be her friend and a listening ear, but never actually tells me anything deep. All she wants me to do is listen. How do I begin the conversation of telling her that things need to change or else, and what is the 'or else'? Separation for a day, a week, or something else? I'm really looking for a long-term solution because we seem to be stuck in a cycle of fighting and apologizing, but nothing changes." Mark, what would you say to Cody?

Mark Cameron: What I would say to Cody is there's some mistrust going on here. He said in there that she says, "I can't trust you because you blab secrets." I think it's healthy for us to have people who we go to and talk to. Everybody needs to have that in their lives. But we shouldn't be going and talking to everybody about everything that's happening in our lives.

Maybe some of building back that trust with your wife is to talk with her about who are some agreed-upon safe people that each of you can go to to discuss marriage problems with. She can feel comfortable knowing that the people who you're going to are for your marriage. They're for both of you and they're going to be healthy, balanced people. They are not just your aunt Sally or this person at work who's going to tell you to go get a divorce or go have an affair. If she knows that you're talking to people who are for her too and she doesn't mind knowing these things, I think that will help build some trust.

Another question that you could ask is, "What can I do to be safe?" You don't have to go along with everything that she says, but just creating that space to help her feel heard and to let her know that you care about her feeling safe can go a long way to trust building too. I wouldn't go with, "Things need to change or else." That is likely to cause more resistance. It is true that each of us have our own hang-ups and some of those hang-ups impact the family more than others.

If that is getting to a certain degree there, it's more beneficial if somebody opts to go to therapy or counseling by themselves. There are two different types of motivation. There's internal motivation and there's external motivation. Internal motivation is when I want to do it. I see that there's a problem, and I see I need healing, and I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to go and address that. Whereas external motivation is, "I'm going to lose a relationship or I'm going to lose a benefit in a relationship if I don't do it."

Often times that is what is needed when somebody is unwilling. That's why in addiction recovery we call it rock bottom. Somebody has to reach a place where they can't go any further to be able to get that motivation to move higher. Usually, it's not something that's inward. It's something that's external. There's a consequence, and the cost of staying the same is exceeding the benefit of change. But I wouldn't present it as, "You need to change or else." I would present it in a way of, "I love you. I care about you. Here's the impact on me and here's what I really need to see, and if you're unwilling to do that, then I'm going to have to do this. But the reason I'm doing this is so that we can have closeness in our relationship, not to punish you."

Brian Perez: Cody is trying to get his wife to go to counseling, but I'm wondering if he himself has done counseling? It sounds to me like he's going to people at church or wherever and she feels that Cody is blabbing her secrets to everyone. So instead of telling your neighbors or people at church or your coworkers, what if Cody himself got a counselor and chose that?

Jim Burns: That's where I was going. Cody, I would suggest that you go get counseling. You can't talk her into it, but you go get counseling. This may take two weeks, it may take two months, it may take a year. But if you're growing and changing and it's been helpful for you, by the way, the Bible says where there's no counsel the people fall and in a multitude of counselors there is safety.

If she begins to see you change without you telling her that she needs to change, then invite her. This has been my story for years. I suggest to people to go, and sometimes your spouse will follow you. Sometimes your kids will follow you, whatever it might be. As time goes on, she may see your enthusiasm and energy and what you're learning. Counseling is discipleship in your own life.

What happens is then she may come and actually she may trust the counselor more than she's going to trust you because a counselor's going to say, "I tell no one this story." Please don't go blabbing her story around because then you have not gained her trust. In a marriage relationship, you need to be able to say to her, "I would like to talk to somebody about this. Are you willing to let me tell that story?" If she says no, then don't tell her because we need to earn the trust. Somehow you've lost some of that trust, and so maybe she is afraid. A crisis is self-defined. Her crisis when she was young may not be as big a deal to you, but it's a major shameful thing to her. She's got some shame probably going on. Go get the help yourself. Go get the counsel you want and need because you can always use counsel. You've written us a great email with a lot of stuff. There are layers to this. Go get the counsel and then invite her to make that happen.

Mark Cameron: When you go to counseling, a good way to invite her into counseling would be to you start by yourself and then invite her to come and say, "My therapist wants to hear your side and what your thoughts are on what I can work on." I know that is a really big vulnerable thing to do, but vulnerability breeds vulnerability. You want her to be vulnerable, and so at least that gets her in the door to be able to meet the counselor, to see that person, to see their style, to be comfortable being in the room. She's there to give you feedback, and the more likely then if you can take that in a vulnerable way, she will be able to receive it back too.

Jim Burns: That's so key because you don't want to get her to counsel so that you and the counselor can gang up on her. That's what she's going to be fearful for. Surprise her with, "What I want to know is what I can do better in this case." She's like, "I thought you guys were going to pounce on me because I didn't do this." Keep that first session. Keep your mouth shut about that. Deal with your own stuff. There's plenty you can deal with and that'll actually help her become freer to then go. This is a good environment. This is a good place. A good counselor's going to help you think through that too.

Brian Perez: Cody also says that all his wife wants him to do is to listen. She just wants him to be a listening ear. Cody wants to give advice and everything else, but she's just like, "No, I just want you to listen to me." Is that such a bad thing?

Jim Burns: I don't think it's a bad thing. We all have advice. I tried to give my wife advice this morning and she was like, "Okay, I'm good." It was on the way here to New Life. I was telling her what I thought she should do this afternoon and she had a different opinion. It wasn't even angry. She just pretty much shut down the thing. I think sometimes we just simply need to listen.

We even have the right answers sometimes and we want to tell them, but there's times to do that and times not to. If they're not being receptive to it, I think it's critical that we are very careful at how we give advice. I talk about parenting your adult children, or not parenting them, and doing life with them. I say unsolicited advice to them is a sign of criticism. That's the same with our spouses sometimes. Sometimes we have to take the hit. But there's other times when we just need to bite our tongue even with our spouse and listening is the language of love. They actually see that as a love language. I know that is the case with most couples that if you just listen. I've said to Kathy many times, "Do you want my advice on this or do you want me just to listen and give you a hug?" There's times when she said, "I just need to get this off my chest." She doesn't want my advice that other people pay me for.

Mark Cameron: Listening is a gift and often times we feel better when we feel listened to rather than getting the advice and the solution. Wise counsel is good, but we need someone who first understands us, empathizes with us, and validates what we're feeling first. But healthy relationships do have balance. Maybe you start with asking, "Can we take some time and listen to one another? I'll go first and I'll listen to you and I'll try and do that in a really productive way. Then would you be willing to do that back for me?" A great tool to do that is something designed by Milan and Kay Yerkovich, which is written in their book How We Love, called the comfort circle. It's a structured process of there being a listener and a speaker in a conversation and then that taking turns to hear one another out. You might find that to be really, really helpful and actually transformative to relationships when you can learn to hear one another out in that way.

Jim Burns: It's interesting because with the comfort circle, what they say not to do is not immediately get defensive. How many times when couples are talking, one person is in the middle of the sentence and the other person is already defending themselves? That's not comforting. That's not listening. That's just, "I'm right and you're wrong," kind of a thing. We have to sometimes just listen. It's comforting to be listened to.

Mark Cameron: The key is to listen for understanding, not for agreement. That's a big shift for a lot of people. It's a big shift for me because when I was listening to someone else, I wanted them to hear and know my opinion and really to agree with it. But when you listen for understanding, it shifts what the strategy is. I don't have to correct you. I don't need to roll my eyes or sigh because it's not about getting you to agree with me or agreeing with you.

Jim Burns: I even say to people, especially more in the adult child world, even if you can show empathy. You may not agree with them, but if you can even show empathy. "I understand where you're coming from and I'm sorry you feel that way." That's without saying, "And I'm all wrong," if you're not, if you don't feel like you are.

Mark Cameron: You can still listen to somebody and continue to hold your own opinion. That's completely possible. I think actually if we did that in our country, especially in politics, we'd get a lot further. But in our culture today, it's the loudest megaphone wins. If I don't like what you're saying, I'm going to speak over you. That happens at rallies. People go there to distort and shut someone else down, but you're not actually winning someone over to be able to have a discussion or a dialogue. I'm thinking about voting for Mark next year. Could be governor, could be president, whoever, but I'm voting for him.

Mark Cameron: I wasn't born over here, so I can't be president.

Brian Perez: Something else really quick because we're running out of time for the break, but Cody says that for the most part he's dealt with his porn problem from the past the best that he knows how. We have no idea what it is that he's doing to have solved that, but if he hasn't tried Every Man's Battle, that would be the best. When you try to do things on your own or with your own self-control, it doesn't always work. It's going to be a lifelong process for him to be working on that. Sign up, Cody. Then if you and your wife could sign up for Intimacy in Marriage, that would be very helpful for you. We've got one coming up at the end of July. You can get all the details on our website NewLife.com. You might think, "Well, I've got a pretty good marriage." Why are you settling for just pretty good when you can have great, wonderful, marvelous? Find out more at NewLife.com or call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: Let's go to the phones. Here is Susan, who listens to the New Life LIVE podcast in Irvine, California. Welcome, Susan, to New Life LIVE. You're on with Dr. Jim Burns and Mark Cameron.

Susan: Hello. Yes, I wanted your help. I wanted to know how I handle my granddaughter giving her money for her high school graduation when she never thanked me for giving her money last week for her birthday or never thanked me for Easter giving her money. I wasn't there, and so I don't know how to handle this. I want her to understand that it's important to say thank you. That's important to me. I've told her that.

Brian Perez: Are these two times the first instances that you have ever given her money? Has she been thankful in the past?

Susan: No, it's a constant thing. It's been going on for several years. What about Christmas gifts and things like that? Well, Christmas gifts she's here, and I don't know if she says thank you, but it's opening presents and I assume she might say thank you. But when I haven't been around her, like I couldn't be there at Easter and then on her birthday, I sent a card on her birthday with my son because I was having some health issues and I put money in it. I've been very generous, but I got nothing back from her.

Mark Cameron: So ungrateful granddaughter situation. Well, let me ask you this question, Susan. I hear what you're saying that she doesn't say thank you. Does she act like she's not thankful when she sees you, even if she doesn't acknowledge the gift?

Susan: I assumed that because she is 18, I'm probably on her lowest priority list. So, she doesn't have really any time with me that she makes. I've never begrudged her that. She was very involved in sports and has a part-time job and does well in school. No, I don't feel like she acts disrespectful. On Mother's Day, I was with her and she threw a card at me. I was sitting at a table. We were out to eat and she just threw it at me. I opened it and I thought, "Well, I'm not going to say anything. This is family and we're all here." I've talked it over with my son sometimes about it because I thought her parents should have said things to her. I think I let it go.

Mark Cameron: She got you a card, but she just kind of tossed it at you rather than handed it to you. Her and her sister got you a very generic card and they wrote one or two sentences in it. It was just a very generic, nothing very pleasant. I'm not minimizing it, but sometimes we do say it's the thought that counts. Let me say something here. I'm with you, Susan, in the fact that manners are very important to me. I grew up and we'd go away and visit my grandma, and when we came back home after staying a few days with her, we'd have to write her a letter and say thank you for having us over there.

Manners are learned. It's funny because I have this conversation with my wife. I'm not saying that she's a rude person, but I've learned that when I request something, I say please, and when someone does something for me, I say thank you. We need to learn that because our propensity usually as kids is not to do that. Kids usually are quite self-focused, and they need to learn to be other-focused. I used to have a friend of mine and if his kids didn't say please, they said, "Pass the ketchup," he'd say, "Wait five minutes." That was their training for them to learn to say please because then they had to wait five minutes if they didn't do that.

It's a training issue here. But it is important to you. Because she is 18, maybe you can go to her and you can just have that conversation with her. I wouldn't do it in a blaming way. Again, that's where I wanted to tease apart if she was really ungrateful or does she act ungrateful too? Maybe you say to her, "Listen, I love you and I care about you. Can I just tell you something that is really important to me? It is really important when people say thank you. I love you and that's not why I'm giving you the gift, but it is important to me." Just see how she tolerates that. She might tolerate it well and it might just take that one time that it sticks with her even if the conversation is a little bit uncomfortable. But that sticks with her and then 20 years from now she's having the conversation with her kids saying, "I learned this from my grandma because it wasn't as important with my parents, but my grandma taught me this and this was a really good value to have because 'please' and 'thank you' unlock a lot of doors for you in life."

Jim Burns: I think you can teach her how to do this. Maybe it's not giving her money though. Maybe it's to say, "Hey, I want to take you to the mall." It sounds like you live somewhat close. "I want to pick out a favorite outfit for you and then why don't we grab a bite to eat?" There's a better chance that you're going to get a thank you out of that. If she doesn't, you just say, "Did you like the thing?" Let her know as Mark said that it's the right way to say thank you. Maybe it's the way she's not thinking. She is a teenager. Her parents should have taught her better, but they didn't.

Slap your son a little bit on the hand because he should be doing that even if they're just being goofy, entitled kids, really. Late in teenage at 18, I would wish your son would say, "Hey, be sure and thank your grandma for it." We would much rather have them ooze all over us, but that's not going to happen. You don't want to give gifts just for that reason. One day you might want to say it without trying to be the old grandma who's whining too much. Be careful with it, but just say, "I really want to help them become more thankful, and you can help me with that too by just saying, 'Hey, thank your grandma,' even if you have to teach them because they're going to have to become responsible for that."

Mark Cameron: I don't think it's a bad expectation that you want the parents to do it, but sometimes we get into adulthood and we don't get everything that we need from our parents. We've got to learn it through the life lesson way. I love what you said that you were going to do. I think that's really great wording to say, "Hey, I noticed that you didn't acknowledge that gift and I'm wondering, is that not as important to you? Is there something else that you prefer?" In saying that, it's not a backhanded way, but in saying that, you're pointing out that she didn't really say anything, but you're also saying, "Is there something different that I can do that will acknowledge and show appreciation and love?" Then she has to answer to that. I think if she's not going to get it from her parents, and again she is 18, she's still a teenager even though she gets to make adult decisions to a certain degree. So, it's time for her to learn. She can learn that from you here. What I would say is don't die on a hill over this. Don't let that be what is going to define your relationship going forward. Do also question too because each of us have certain sensitivities to things. Question what feeling that elicits in me and where maybe is the root of that feeling for me. It's very, very bothersome. Why is it so bothersome?

Jim Burns: Sometimes when even we acknowledge, I said to my grandson the other day, "You know what, I realize I'm an old guy. Thank you so much for hanging out with your grandpa." I put my arm around him and I rubbed his little head and he just gave me a hug. He didn't say, "Well, thank you for hanging out with me." But I want to model that I'm grateful that he still hangs out with me. Those kinds of things. Be that grandma. Lavish them with fun. Be the fun grandma, and that may help. But they need that lesson. I look at things that I learned from my grandma that I did not get from my parents. Her name was Nini, or we called her Nini because my brother couldn't say grandma. I learned so much from her and she'd sometimes get on me. She would have said, "Hey, I gave you that. You need to thank me for it." But it was because she had shown so much love and generosity to me. So, I did it. I probably didn't say it as good as I could have, but Susan, I think you're really close in terms of keep it up. Don't punish her because she didn't say thank you, but keep being that loving, generous grandma because as she gets a little bit older, she really may need you for some of those lunches and some of those other things because maybe she can't talk to her mom the way she can talk to you.

Brian Perez: Would your book Doing Life with Your Adult Children help in this situation, even though it's a grandchild?

Jim Burns: I think so. Grandparents use it all the time.

Brian Perez: Great. Susan, thanks for calling us today here on New Life LIVE. That book Doing Life with Your Adult Children is available in the NewLife.com store. Let's talk to Teresa in Washington, D.C., listening to us on NewLife.com. Welcome to the show, Teresa.

Teresa: Hi, this is Teresa. I have a question. I lost my father in the end of the 1990s and it was a very tragic circumstance. He had been an alcoholic on the verge of dying for quite a while, and then he actually had a massive heart attack at the home of his mistress. We never found out until very, very many hours after he'd been hospitalized. I behaved in a way that concerns me and I'd like to see if you could help me understand it so that I don't do it again at the passing of my mom or somebody else. I took my kids out of their school and I stayed away from my support group. I'm thinking I was so filled with shame that I couldn't face everybody. So depressed and filled with shame, but I don't understand it and I'm asking if you understand it and can help me understand it.

Brian Perez: You're talking about the shame because you found out that he died in the home of his mistress?

Teresa: Yeah, and the shame of all those years of alcoholism. We did three interventions that never worked. He was hospitalized at one moment and didn't even remember my name. It was a very long road full of all kinds of hurt. I guess I was trying to process the loss of somebody who was important but not at all. There was no healing or closure or anything. I was probably guilty of trying to do a couple of those interventions that hurt him.

Brian Perez: And how old were you when all this happened? Roughly?

Teresa: I was 33.

Brian Perez: Okay, so you were in your thirties. We've got a break coming up, and I'm sure Mark and Jim have some more questions to ask you. We might need to dig a little deeper just to get you the answer that you need, so stay on the phone through the break and we'll be back with you. This is New Life LIVE. I'm your host Brian Perez, here with Dr. Jim Burns and Mark Cameron. We have been doing this for almost four decades now, and people are struggling with whatever their situation. Look at Teresa. This happened 30 years ago, and it's still on her mind. It's still bugging her and she wants to make sure that she doesn't handle anything that happens in the future like this again. So, stay on the phone, Teresa. We'll be right back.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: Let's go back to Teresa, who's listening to us on NewLife.com in Washington, D.C. You still with us, Teresa?

Teresa: Yes.

Brian Perez: Great. All right, Mark. What would you want to ask?

Mark Cameron: Teresa, what's got you thinking about this now? You said that you didn't want to do this at your mom's funeral. Is your mom close to death?

Teresa: She just passed away about a year and a half ago. Now, it's a different relationship, so that's not entirely a formula because the relationship with my father was so conflictual and I wasn't even saved at that moment. I didn't know Jesus and didn't have the Holy Spirit. I'm also trying to help people that have a walk through grief and I'm trying to understand myself because I think I can isolate myself. I wonder if it's just shame. I was obviously very angry with him, very angry, and tried for a couple of years to do interventions and to save him and nothing worked.

Mark Cameron: I was just curious why you were thinking about it right now. I hear you talking about shame and I'm glad you're aware of it because we all struggle with shame. Every single person struggles with shame in some way even if we don't recognize it and acknowledge it. The difference between guilt and shame is personhood. Guilt says, "I did something wrong." It's related to an action, whereas shame says, "There's something wrong with me. I'm bad." A lot of times when somebody acts out who's close to us, often times we can end up wearing their shame. Meaning, "I wasn't good enough for my dad to want to connect with me." Or if it's a betrayal situation, this often happens too where the betrayed party feels shame over my spouse cheated on me. I'm not good enough for them. I heard you say something. You said that you made interventions or you were part of interventions that hurt him.

Teresa: He didn't like that, right? He got angry with us. But I think what you just said is very true. The shame of not having been able to help him has been a haunting theme that I didn't do enough or it didn't work or whatever. But the shame of his behavior too that he came over to my neighborhood one day and he walked into my neighbor's house and said, "Where's Claire?" He was losing his mind. So, it became a thing where people knew in my neighborhood, some people that were close to me because of his behavior was visible.

Mark Cameron: You've internalized that into what we call a negative self-belief. When you say something like, "I didn't do enough," that's a negative self-belief about you. So, you've ended up internalizing that. Of course, people who are addicted, they resist help if they're not yet willing to change. Really, he should have been the one to acknowledge that he was an alcoholic, that he was having an affair, that he neglected you. All you were doing in those interventions was really, "I want my dad back. I want my dad back because I want to be loved and cared for by him," and he's not giving that to me. That's just a natural propensity for a person. Because he didn't want to do that, somehow you've ended up internalizing that where, "I hurt him and I didn't do enough." Getting into therapy right now I think would be really good just to have someone, even though it was a long time ago, just walk you through that and process that. These negative self-beliefs, often times they're subconscious, meaning that we're not really thinking about that. We don't see the words go through our mind when something comes up. It's just like an app that runs in the background. It's there and we're not aware of it. Getting into therapy and you process through all of those things, you start to become more aware of those scripts, those internal scripts that we have. Then when they come up, you can say, "Ah, I know what that's triggering in me and I know where that's connected to." Then you're able to tease those two things apart and depersonalize the current situation from your past history. Processing this in therapy too would also help relieve you from the burden of this was my fault.

Jim Burns: If you go to a therapist, they would love to have conversations with you because you're working on this stuff. You're looking back a long ways, but you'll become a better person for going through it. A couple of thoughts. Number one is, and this is for you and every listener and Mark, myself, Brian, all of us. We are not defined by our parents' poor choices. My dad was an alcoholic. That doesn't mean that I'm now defined as just a child of an alcoholic. I'm a child of God. You made a decision. You said that prior when your dad died, you were not saved. You were not a Christ-follower. Today you are. One of the things that the Bible says is that you're a new creation in Christ. How beautiful is that that you can now approach this in a different manner? Sometimes we need some counseling and some coaching to do that. The Bible talks about being a transitional generation. I want to encourage you, Teresa. The Bible says that you inherit the sins of a previous generation to the third and fourth generation. It's all throughout the Old Testament. It doesn't mean always it's the same sin, but it could be a sin bent. Sin just simply means to miss the mark. You can be the transitional generation here. You've made a commitment to Christ. You're not living the life that he chose to live, and it was his choice. Well, in a good way, you can rejoice that you're going in a different direction and that's going to affect your children and your children's children in a beautiful way. I want to encourage you to be the healthiest version of Teresa. That might be getting some counseling. A lot of times we think about getting counseling as something negative or something where I'm crazy or I need help. No, no, no. Counseling is helping you become all that God created you to be. That person is trained to help you become that person. I think you're asking a great question. I think a lot of people feel stuck or they don't grow because of a past relationship with a father wound, for example, like you have. Get the help you need, and you'll be better off for it and the generations to come will be better off for it.

Mark Cameron: I love what you said there, Jim. We're not defined by our parents' choices. That is true. We are not defined, but we need to realize that because our identity is shaped in relationships. As you do therapy, you'll learn how to tease those two things apart, Teresa. I say a lot of times to parents who have adult children who are violating values, you're not defined by your children's choices. That sounds easier, but it's the same exact thing for our parents. I remember when I first became a Christian and other people said they had a wonderful relationship with their family and here was my family, an alcoholic family. My grandpa died of cirrhosis of the liver and it's all a big mess. I was embarrassed to share that with anybody. Why? But I was, and I understand that and get that. I needed the help to realize that I'm defined by my relationship with God, not my relationship with maybe a parent whose expectations were not being experienced. He wasn't going to be the dad that I thought he was going to be or I'd hoped he would be. But I did have a Heavenly Father, so my relationship with God was really defining who I became.

Brian Perez: Teresa, we've got a webinar coming up a week from today. I think we'll send you a free registration for it. It's called Identity in Christ: What the Bible Says. It's on June 11th. Anyone who wants to sign up for this, you can just text the word "webinar" to 28950. We'll text you back a registration link as well as a free tip sheet on identity. Thank you so much for joining us today on New Life LIVE. We're out of time. Don't forget we have a matching gift challenge going on right now. We had it at $250,000 but we're so close to that that we said, "You know what? Let's just go up to $300,000." So $300,000 is our matching gift right now. You can find out more at NewLife.com. God bless you guys. We'll talk to you next time.

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