New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Hello and welcome once again to New Life Live. It's a new week and we are ready to go with your questions. If you have something on your mind that you need help with, give us a call at 1-800-229-3000. You can call this hour or next hour because we're going to be here for two hours. You don't have to use your real name or your location. We just want you to call in to 1-800-229-3000.

We've got clinical psychologist Dr. Alice Benton here today as well as licensed marriage and family therapist Mark Cameron, who is also the leader of How We Love. It is great to be with you folks as always. Alice, what's on your mind to start us off?

Alice Benton: I'm going to go out on a limb and say I believe most disrespectful, disobedient behavior in decent people is actually a sign of underlying distress. If we can be curious faster than being reactive, it will go a long way. The Bible says that the purposes of a person's heart are like deep waters and it takes one of understanding to draw them out.

I felt pretty insulted and disrespect by one of my disobedient children the other day who suddenly walked away in a huff. I thought, what kind of table manners are those? I wanted to apply discipline right away. It just played out that some time passed before I was able to interact with that child. I knew I felt insulted and disrespectful and stirred up, but that comfort circle is my go-to because I know it helps me.

If I want to go into a conversation guns blazing, it almost always means I don't know enough. Gentle curiosity draws out factors that played into my child's apparent disrespect and disobedience, factors that I cannot even guess at. In fact, it didn't happen until the next morning. Thankfully, I was much calmer by then and so was my child.

My kids are well-versed in doing the comfort circle. Admittedly, sometimes it annoys them and this child even said, "It just feels like the comfort circle pressures me to say things I don't want to say." I gave the child permission. I just want to ask some questions to draw you out and I want you to be a listener to me too, because it was hard on me as well.

I found out my child was struggling with some profound issues: worry of a family member dying, a situation that we are facing. This child felt like our family doesn't pursue this person when they're hurt, but pursues siblings when they're hurt. It was true. I saw the truth in it after I was informed, after I was given the background information that I had no idea was taking place.

Of course, there is still time and place to say, "If you do have to leave because you're really upset, please tell us. Let us know." I need some space from you. I'm going to step away and I'll come back later. That would have been more respectful. But if I had jumped on the surface behavior, I would have missed the broken heart that was lying just underneath.

If you have listened to us for any amount of time, you've heard us praise the comfort circle over and over. But I speak to many listeners who say they have never really tried it. It's just a style of active listening that gets us into prolonged curiosity and lets us set down those blazing guns. Rather than going after the person for their bad behavior, instead we ask, what's going on? What happened? What are you feeling?

I felt so grateful that I remembered to use that instead of attacking the behavior. I want to challenge all of our listeners. If you haven't tried it, what are you waiting for? What holds you back? What are you frightened of? Try the comfort circle. Try listening a little bit longer. It will work wonders for you.

New Life: You can learn all about the comfort circle and see some examples in the book, *How We Love*. You can get it in the newlife.com store. We are going to go to the phones in just a moment. 1-800-229-3000.

Disobedience can be a sign of distress, so use the comfort circle. I mentioned the book, *How We Love*, which is available in the newlife.com store, but then Mark reminded me that it's also at howwelove.com.

Mark Cameron: It is. To order the book, it may take some time, and then to have to read through the book to understand the comfort circle, but at howwelove.com, you can probably find out in about half an hour. You can watch a video on what it looks like and you can download some freebies which give you questions to ask to guide you through the comfort circle.

Alice Benton: Mark, do you agree that most disrespectful or disobedient behavior in regularly good people is a sign of underlying distress?

Mark Cameron: I completely agree. We often interpret the world and situations through our own hurts. But as we know, every situation has two perspectives to it. When we can slow down long enough, we can see what is underneath someone else's behavior. Often times, what we're feeling is not actually what's happening.

I've heard that a lot, especially from people who are avoiders. They'll say things like somebody being late is disrespect, or somebody leaving something out is disrespectful, or somebody being messy. It is not that the other person is being disrespectful to you. It's just that something might be going on with them. Even when we do the comfort circle, we can do that for ourselves and examine what is going on if I feel disrespect, but maybe the other person is not actually disrespecting me.

Alice Benton: I just have never been disappointed or felt like I wasted time when I slowed down long enough to listen. Instead, there's always been a revelation of, oh, I didn't realize that was your motivation. Usually it draws me closer to the person I'm talking to and I see something good or benevolent in their behavior when previously I saw disrespect. It almost always happens with the comfort circle. Please learn about it and try it. It will change your relationships.

New Life: Howwelove.com is where to find out more about the comfort circle. Here at New Life Live, we often remind you that staying equipped and encouraged is essential when you're caring for others. One opportunity this fall is the Hope Together Conference in the Dallas area. There are three days of biblically-based training and practical tools for counselors, coaches, pastors, and lay leaders.

You can learn more about the conference at hopetogether.com. Our own Becky Brown is one of the speakers this year. As a New Life listener and viewer, you have a special discount available when you register. Use the code NLM20 as in New Life Ministries 20, for a 20 percent discount on the general conference registration. Early bird pricing ends this Friday, July 31, so don't wait. Go to hopetogether.com and use NLM20 for that 20 percent discount.

Let's go to the phones now. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call us for the rest of this hour and all of next. We're going to begin in Dallas, Texas with Vanessa. Welcome, Vanessa, to New Life Live.

Vanessa: Hi, you guys. Thank you so much for all that you do and all that you offer. You were the first that came to mind when this happened. I recently had a good friend come to see me, take me on a walk, and during that walk, she showed extreme signs of paranoia and delusion. She was worried that people were watching her, wanted the phone to be turned off, and was making statements about things that were happening at work.

I know her to be a strong woman, very intelligent, but I can see that she's struggling. I know that a year ago she had a similar episode and her husband at the time ended up calling the police and an ambulance. She went through a very bad experience being taken to a mental health facility.

I'm also as a Christian very much aware there's spiritual warfare and I know that she has a great purpose on her life. I've seen what God is doing. She's purchased a church land. I know that the Lord is using her and wants to use her, and I know that she's under attack, but she will not go speak to anyone.

I've tried to go and lay a safe place with our church and make sure they won't write anything down. They're not going to call because she hasn't harmed herself or anybody else. These are just these thoughts that I know are real for her because she's struggling. My question is, how can I be there for her? What else can I do? When she starts talking, I just ask for the Holy Spirit to take over, and I do see Him do that and speak through me the right things. I just want to know if there are any other things that you guys could recommend.

Alice Benton: Vanessa, what a loving friend you are and that you're trying to very thoughtfully approach this because this is multi-layered. Tell us who of her family are active in her life?

Vanessa: That part I don't know and I don't think a lot. She has a son who is in elementary, but I don't think she has any family around here. She's active in nonprofit work and things like that, but I don't think she has any family around here.

Alice Benton: I might have missed something about her husband. He's the one that called the ambulance previously. Is he still with her?

Vanessa: No, they couldn't get past that. She felt so betrayed, so hurt, because she just wanted a safe space to say this is what's going on, this is what I'm hearing, this is how I'm feeling. She's worked a lot in the homeless ministry and I know a lot of times doing that, you're running into people with mental health issues. She recognizes that this sounds crazy and all of that, but I'm like, but it's also your reality, so I'm not going to say that. I just want to know how to be there for her.

Alice Benton: Is she now divorced and does she have full custody or primary custody of her son?

Vanessa: Yes, primary. Her son is with her ex now and I do feel that the Lord intervened and allowed this situation to happen. She was going to meet him out of state to pick up her son and got lost and started battling with these thoughts and pulled over to a rest stop. The police came and I guess she verbally spoke some things out loud. They didn't take her, but they definitely alerted him. Now he's not releasing her son and I told her, I know this is horrible, but if this happened, you have to believe in your heart and soul that the Lord has allowed this to happen. You've got to just turn to Christ and go, okay, what do I need to see? How do I move forward? I feel like God was definitely giving her the space for her little boy through that because I was supposed to go with her but my spirit was just like, no, you don't need to.

Mark Cameron: Does her husband have goodwill toward her?

Vanessa: I don't think so. The one that she had the incident with is not her little boy's dad. Her little boy's dad is in another state and now they're going to be working through it with attorneys and everything. He does not have goodwill toward her. He's hearing these things and hearing from his son. I just told her she has to be aware when she speaks that out loud in this world, these are the reactions she is going to get.

Mark Cameron: Do you know what diagnosis she got when she was hospitalized last time?

Vanessa: No, she wouldn't tell me and she won't agree with anything.

Mark Cameron: Here is what you might do. You might just want to express that concern to her that you're just worried about her. Maybe just say in general, "I'm really worried about you. I'm concerned for you. Would you be willing for me to go with you to the doctor so that I can go there and I can support you?" See if she's willing to allow you to go.

That way, you maybe able to get an opportunity to share with the physician what you're hearing, what is happening. Sometimes when people are in this state, if they're disconnected from other family members, then the physician really only knows about their own report back and they're not really getting the full picture.

In this situation, you want to think safety first. I'm totally 100 percent with Alice. I think the anonymous tip phone call could be a good idea if she's really resistant or if you really hear concerning things. But in terms of support, just being able to be with her as frequently as possible and seeing if she will allow you to go with her to a medical appointment. Also don't try and do this alone. Loop other people in because what happens if you're not available, what happens if you get emotionally exhausted? The last thing you want to do is end up in a codependency dynamic.

Vanessa: Amen. I know that I'm nobody's savior and I told her that. I just would love to find a place where she feels safe to open up because I can't imagine having all that inside you and nobody there that you can be free with. She's so paranoid. She's like, "No, if I go see a counselor, they're going to write it down. They're going to write it down and then they're going to use it against me." I understand that for what she's been through.

Mark Cameron: She may be off her medication, which is why you might be seeing an episode like this right now. Anything that you can do to try and support her in those ways, especially if you have trust with her, frame it in a way that you're looking out for her and you want to help her.

Alice Benton: Vanessa, I want to encourage you to really listen to what you think the Holy Spirit is telling you to do, even if it will likely result in the end of this friendship with her. I see it going that way and yet you're doing everything you can to stay a good and safe friend.

I want to give you some more direct wording that you can pray about first and see if God wants you to say this. You might let your friend know, "I know you have good reason for your fears, but because I love you so much, I'm going to point out your fears are resulting in that hospitalization last year, a police interaction not too long ago, and your son is afraid of you. He doesn't want to stay with you right now."

This is terrifying, but I need to lovingly tell you I think your brain is struggling to know what is clear, what is true, what is real. If you'll let me, I want to help you get help. She probably will reject all of that and she'll think you betrayed her, but sometimes God needs us to take that risk and she gets to reject it. One last thought is you may have heard of NAMI, the National Alliance for Mental Illness. It's for the family members or friends of someone struggling with severe mental illness and you'll feel so supported if you decide to attend that kind of group and they'll help you with things like what we're doing now.

New Life: Vanessa, thanks for calling in today on behalf of your friend. You can do that too. If you have a friend who's struggling with something and maybe they don't want to call in, you can call in and we'll do our best to help you help them. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Vanessa, thank you for thinking of us first when this went on. Today we're going to be here for two hours, so grab an open line.

Coming soon to a computer near you, three new New Life courses. They begin the week of August 10. You can sign up for them right now at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. These are counselor-led, faith-based, and they are 12 weeks, one hour a week. They meet over Zoom. You'll experience small group community for encouragement, connection, and accountability, and you'll grow stronger, healthier, and more confident in your daily life.

Once registration closes, you're going to have to wait until 2027 for the next round of courses. You don't want to wait that long. Imagine entering 2027 in a better position than you are now. If this is on your heart, don't wait. Get all the details at newlife.com. The three courses are called Healing is a Choice, Take Your Life Back, and Lose It For Life. You can find out all about them at newlife.com. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call in to the studio today.

Let's go to the phones now. Here is Rachel in Northeast Maryland, listening on SiriusXM Channel 131. Hi there, Rachel. Welcome.

Rachel: Thank you so much for doing what you do here. The heart of my question is I've been a Christian for over 20 years, a born-again believer. I've failed at many, many things, I've made many mistakes, I've had some traumatic events in my life. The heart of my question is why, even though I have God as my source and my help, why do I still feel so alone and depressed and sad sometimes?

I don't know what to do with that. I have had counseling in the past for traumatic events that happened, like my husband died about 13 years ago unexpectedly and so I've been a single mom after that. Then I was kind of in that sandwich generation and I was taking care of my mom who was very ill for years. She just passed away three months ago. There have definitely been a lot of things. I feel like I should be okay, but I know that I'm not okay and I don't know what to do with that.

Mark Cameron: Rachel, when did this last episode of depression begin?

Rachel: When my mom died recently. It was obviously really, really sad and I've kind of been dealing with a lot of guilt with her passing and her health beforehand. I definitely put everything for myself on the back burner for the years I was taking care of her, but I still feel real bad for times when I was short with her or just the sheer exhaustion of not wanting to deal with her care in the middle of the night sometimes.

Then her passing and she was on hospice and feeling like we just let her go. Because with hospice, they stop giving nutrients and stuff, and that was just the things that I witnessed and seeing her in her final days has been kind of overwhelming. I lack the space to talk about that with people because it's so heavy and it was so ugly and hard, the things that her body dealt with and that I had to deal with seeing. People I can't deliver that message to a lot of people. I just feel like it's too much for them, so I kind of protect them from it.

This is just the last thing. Obviously, my husband died unexpectedly from a heart attack 13 years ago. I'm a single mom and my kids are young adults now. I go to church, I belong to a church, I'm there every week. I'm involved in my church. I even count the money every week. I try to serve and be involved and I read the Word every day, maybe not for hours, because I'm dealing with exhaustion every single day. I'm exhausted. I wake up exhausted like I haven't slept and I go throughout my day exhausted. I just don't know what to do with it other than just pray about it. I feel like I should be okay or know how to be okay, but I don't.

Alice Benton: Rachel, who told you all the shoulds?

Rachel: I feel like I'm supposed to know where my help comes from.

Alice Benton: I think somebody held a very high standard for you and was often upset that you kept falling short of their standard. Who was that?

Rachel: Probably my mom and unfortunately my oldest son now.

Alice Benton: Maybe they have some perfectionism, maybe they are high achievers. Is that right?

Rachel: I don't know. I think that my mom dealt with it a lot when she was a kid. She was never accepted and she was never enough.

Alice Benton: And then you were not enough for her either in her eyes. Your poor exhausted body and your very weary soul need permission to not be okay. I think you've had some slave drivers in your life and that message is still really loud and clear in your head. We're going to help you to come out from under the authority of the slave driver.

Even when she said, "I read my Bible every day, but not for hours," I don't think anybody reads their Bible for hours, but she's put this goal that she needs to do it for hours to be accepted and that's not the case. Rachel, I just want to gently point out that as you were getting to saying that your mom has been tough on you, you also excused it really quickly. It is kind of you and right to point out that your mom was mistreated when she was little, so there is a generational aspect to this.

But I point this out because I think you might minimize how harshly some people treat you, your mom and your son being primary. Because you might excuse what they do and you keep trying to meet some unattainable standard, you find yourself falling short. You think you should be okay, but you're not.

I just again want to give you permission. It's okay that you're exhausted. Of course you didn't want to get up in the middle of the night and take care of her. Of course hospice is so hard. Caring for your parent as you would care for your infant child is so often wrong and that's not supposed to be the way of it.

I hope you'll get into a really good, understanding, caring therapist who will help you give that permission to yourself, because it's easy for me to say, but your body and mind and heart have been trained to show you how much you're falling short and you really should be doing and feeling better, and that will be hard to come out of that ingrained way of thinking. But it's possible.

Mark Cameron: Rachel, you've had a lot of loss in your life, and whenever we have loss, we go through grief. It makes sense that this latest loss, especially with your mom, someone who's so close to you, has thrown you back into that grief cycle. As we know, depression is part of the stages of grief and it's common to feel guilt in depression. It's also common to feel caregiver guilt when somebody dies.

When you're caring for someone and you're doing so much, when they die, all of a sudden that pressure is relieved and that's really I think what you're feeling is a relief from the pressure that you were under. I often say to people in this situation, if you were lying on the floor and someone was sitting on your chest, you'd be feeling a lot of pressure, and if they got up, immediately you'd feel relief. It's involuntary. You just will feel the relief and often times people can feel guilty that they're relieved that the person is gone. It's not necessarily that the person is gone, it's just that they're not under the stress anymore.

We are emotional beings, and sometimes we can't really work our way out of that emotion. What we're doing with this work is often times distracting ourselves, but it just delays it and we can get stuck in stages of grief. We can get stuck in depression. I encourage you because I hear that hesitancy of you wanting to care for others. I don't really want to tell them what I'm going to go through because they won't know what to do with that and I just don't want to put that pressure or that burden on them.

I think a good step for you probably would be joining a grief group where other people are experiencing the same emotions that you're experiencing and it's just that open space to share. Then if you're not on medication, you might want to consider thinking about medication. Medication can be a good way to just kind of pull you up because when we get stuck in depression for a long time, we forget what it's like to not be depressed. I've encouraged many clients to go on medication and they've said things like, "Man, I haven't felt like this in two years," and I'm like, gosh, or sometimes longer. Or they'll say things like, "I finally feel like myself again." So that might be something that you want to explore if you're not on medication.

Alice Benton: When we feel uncomfortable emotions, our natural tendency is to fight them because we want to feel better, of course. Yet we don't get past them to truly feel better until we accept them, even value them, and then look for the meaning in them. That is what your grief and your guilt and your shoulds need. You'll actually feel better after. You pointed out, "I lack the space to talk about these things," and I think you know you need to be able to talk about them with really understanding people who don't give you more shoulds, they give you understanding and grace and compassion.

New Life: Rachel, stay on the phone and we'll put you in touch with a life recovery group that can assist you with this. We've also got a couple of tip sheets that we can send you and to anybody who calls us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. They're called 10 Tips for Healthy Grieving and also 12 Steps to Recovery from Grief.

We've got a New Life course coming up, Take Your Life Back. I think that would be a good one for you to sign up for. Healing is a Choice was one of the main books that taught me about not fighting my own feelings and even embracing them. My anxiety is my main uncomfortable feeling. I don't want to embrace it. That's the last thing I want to do. I want to get rid of it. But it's true, if we take the time to understand it, feel, and deal with it, share it with somebody else, that's actually the way to alleviate it. Fighting just represses it and then it leaks out in other unhealthy, toxic ways to us and to the people around us.

Rachel, thanks for calling us today. 1-800-229-3000 is the number. Now here is Amber in Pensacola, who listens to us on WEGS. Welcome, Amber, to New Life Live.

Amber: Hi. I'm calling in today because I'm having issues with my boss that I work for. He has a tendency to not complete tasks that he handles. He kind of leaves his stuff around for us to pick up and I feel guilty because I have accommodated his bad habits to where I feel like I have been losing myself with this job. I feel like I have been taking on his responsibility to avoid his accountability.

New Life: You're talking about more than just tasks at work that he's not completing. Is it like he doesn't clean up the table after lunch?

Amber: Stuff like that. I had talked to his wife two days ago because I just can't really continue to do the maid work plus other things. Where I work, we do a lot of packaging and shredding. A customer came in and they wanted their document shredded. They had like credit cards, bank statements, stuff like that. I didn't notice until later on that day that he did some of it and then he left it there. I went back to do something, I can't remember, but I noticed it. I said, "Oh my God," and my coworker was like, "What's wrong?" I said, "He left this whole stack of this customer's stuff that is supposed to be shredded just out in the open." My coworker was like, "Don't worry about it. I'll do it." People kept coming in and it had credit cards, bank statements, stuff like that.

There has been a time where I had closed store one time and he left a whole deposit bag on top of the water tank and walked out. It's getting to the point where it's legally problematic what he's doing. Not only is it way too much work for the rest of you, it's irresponsible, but it also could be putting the store into liability issues. After I spoke to his wife about it, he got upset with me because he left some stuff behind. We do mailboxes too, so if a customer wants to open up a mailbox, we handle that too. He did one for a customer. I don't know what he did, but he had the folder just laying out there in open on the desk. I put it on top of some returns from some customers that did for Amazon. He got upset with me because I didn't do them. I said, "Well, you left them there," and he said, "I don't care who did it. It needs to be cleaned up." That's why I got really ticked off.

Alice Benton: Amber, do you want to keep working here?

Amber: I mentioned to his wife that I like working there, but it's just some things that he's not doing. I feel like I'm playing more the management role than he is.

Alice Benton: Have you addressed it directly with him yet or is there an HR to address this with?

Amber: It's a franchise, so he's the owner. We did have a consultant come there maybe about two weeks ago and I mentioned to his wife that he was there at 10:00 and he showed up 30 minutes late. He asked, "Where is so-and-so?" I said, "He's not here. I don't know." I can't afford to lose my job until I find something better. I have applied, I'm sending out some applications right now. I took two days off from work because I'm tired.

Mark Cameron: It sounds like an unfortunate situation, Amber, because you like your job and you want your job and you need your job. I wonder if your boss has ADHD. That is what it sounds like, not completing tasks, getting distracted, being messy. Unfortunately he is your boss and he is expecting that you guys are going behind him to clean it up.

As Alice is saying, it's getting legally problematic here. Usually even franchise corporations, they do have a corporate HR that you can reach out to because they have their name to hold up. Because you mentioned that his wife is involved, it sounds like she's coming in, she's an owner, she's probably experienced some of these same things at home. I would guess.

Amber: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I have got an earful from one of the other coworkers and she's a teenager. She's only 15 years old and her dad is friends with him. I worked with her Saturday. I think she likes working with me instead of him. She said they went to their house for Christmas and their place is nasty.

Mark Cameron: Even if you leave, someone else is going to come back in and it's going to be the same thing and it's going to be this revolving door. If there's a few of you there who work there, you might want to consider either reaching out to the corporate HR or the consultant and giving your concerns. But I would do that secondary.

The first thing I would do is, sometimes there is power in numbers. Come together and in less of a critical way and more of a team approach, say, "We love working here, we want to continue working here. It's hard though and I don't know if I can continue working here because these are the things that we see happening and we want to learn how to resolve it."

That gives him an opportunity to say, "Wow, if my employees leave, then I'm going to have to hire new people and I'm going to have to train them and I'm going to have to figure out if they work with our schedules and I really like Amber and I really like the other people who work here." Then he has a choice to listen to you and see if he can put things in place. If he doesn't do that, then I would maybe reach out to the consultant. But I always like to go that direct way to see how can we try and have a collaborative conversation. Either way, even if you do end up leaving, I think that will help and strengthen you for the next time you need to have a difficult conversation with someone.

Alice Benton: I heard your humility, Amber, that you have trained him to expect you to clean up his mess. I imagine you're a people pleaser and maybe a conflict avoider, which I also am in recovery from. If you would share your humility with him if and when you confront him, that "I played a role in this. I've been doing all the cleanup work, but I don't have the energy to do it this way anymore. If you do value me, if you want us to keep working together, which I want, I think we need to clarify what our roles are, what you expect of me and what I'm able and willing to do, especially given what my job description is."

You stepped beyond your job description and you've kind of put both in this position. That humility might lower his defensiveness. If you want to look at this in a therapeutic light, it would be good for you to learn assertiveness, boundaries, being able to say, "This doesn't work for me. I only have this much time and this much energy. I can do this task, but not all these tasks." I would think he probably reminds you of someone from your past. You probably were expected in childhood to clean up after a sibling, maybe to clean up after your parent, so it might be a natural role for you. It's hard for us to come out of those old family of origin roles and therapy helps that. Do you consider yourself a people pleaser, Amber?

Amber: I would say yes, because that stems from how I was raised by my mother. I'm trying to get on a list to go into trauma therapy because I went through a place last week where some things have come up that I have not processed through of me being sexually abused as a 10 or 11-year-old by my nephew. It's a lot of things that have happened to me that push us to that.

I think the people in my family, because I cut my entire family off, I don't have no contact with them at all. I feel like that I am dealing with people similar to my mom, my sisters, with the people I'm dealing with at work. I'm dealing with them still spiritually at work, but in different people. I'm trying to set the boundaries because I can't keep going on like this.

Alice Benton: The beauty of learning boundaries is that we can sometimes find a middle ground with people that want to grow. Whereas with people that aren't willing to change, sometimes you do have to cut them off. But boundaries give a chance to say, "I don't like this, I want to work this out, are you willing to?" Hopefully this boss will be. Your family, maybe they weren't. But boundaries help to give the opportunity to fix the relationship so that things don't just have to be cut off because it seems like people take advantage of you. Applying what we're talking about and getting guidance from a professional will really help you figure out if you have to cut this boss off too or is this a repairable situation.

Mark Cameron: Everyone of the insecure attachment styles have their own particular growth goals to grow toward security. We're all trying to get to the same place, secure attachment, but some people struggle to speak up and have a voice and other people can be too aggressive when they speak up and they can struggle to listen.

For you, Amber, to grow out of that people pleaser style, when other people remind us, it's called a trigger and then we end up falling back into the strategies that we learned in childhood to manage when our needs weren't met. The way to work yourself out of that pleaser style is to practice some of these growth goals and they're going to be challenging at first. They're going to be uncomfortable. But growth is uncomfortable. That's the nature of it.

As you learn to practice something and lean into the discomfort, it becomes less uncomfortable and you become better at it. The only way to actually manage anxiety—we can't get rid of anxiety completely—is to learn how to manage it. When we delay it, when we distract, when we push it aside, it only relieves it temporarily, but then it comes back again that we have to deal with it. If we learn how to manage our anxiety, that's the way to reduce it.

New Life: All that is in your book, isn't it, Mark? *Understanding Your Attachment Style*, it's available in the newlife.com store. Lots of great resources in this book, lots of great information that will help you achieve that secure attachment style that we should all be striving for.

We're all still on the growth journey too. It's not that we ever get there, but we improve. It's like the journey of sanctification. Nobody is going to ever be exactly like Jesus, but it doesn't mean that we don't stop working toward that. It's the same with attachment. You can be secure, it just means that you're not going to get perfection.

We're going to be here for another hour, so keep calling in. 1-800-229-3000 is our number and we're going to be here for the rest of this hour and all of next. Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it.

Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. Thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.