New Life LIVE

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Hey everyone, welcome to New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and we're going to be here in the studio for two hours today. So call in right now at 1-800-229-3000. Answering your questions today, we've got licensed marriage and family therapist Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris. How are you doing, Jackie?

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: I'm doing well.

Brian Perez: Good to have you here. And Chris Williams is here too. He's a licensed marriage and family therapist. Though he hasn't written any books, his life is an open book because he's always got something to confess. So Chris, what's going on?

Chris Williams: All right, confessions with Chris. Here it is. You may have heard the term KISS, which is an acronym for "keep it simple, stupid," but I like to use "son" with my own because I have two sons. Keep it simple, son. One of my confessions is this: I complicate life way too often and way too much.

We get overwhelmed with all of the things. I've got things in my head and things in my life. It's just too much. In the trees, I tend to lose the forest. In the details of life or in getting overwhelmed, I tend to lose the big picture.

The confession is that I lose the narrative way too quickly. I've got to get back on the core narrative of God's will for my life, of what's most important and what's most essential. There is this line that really goes back to Proverbs chapter 3. It says, "Let love and faithfulness never leave you. Write them on your heart; bind them around your neck." Love and faithfulness. You want to keep it simple? Stick with love and stick with faithfulness.

It says, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart; lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him (or submit to him) and he will make your path straight." There are a lot of words there, but let's go even back to Psalm 37, verse 3. Just the first part of that says, "Trust in the Lord and do good."

The rest of it says, "Dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture." Trust God and do good. If there is something I need to learn and come back to, and the story narrative I need to keep following over and over again when life becomes overwhelming or the problems of the world or the problems in my own home become too much, it is to trust God and do good.

In guiding my boys in some major life decisions they're making right now, we have found this principle so unbelievably helpful. Do we sense what God is doing here? Do we sense what God is up to? Do we trust that his ways are the highest ways? Are we participating in his goodness?

The first line of my own personal core mission statement is "curating God's goodness." I need to come back to curating God's goodness. Then what that allows me to do is see all of the things that aren't the goodness of God and aren't trustworthy of God and come back to show that these are the things I've got to get rid of. These are the things I've got to let go of. It also helps prioritize to say that certain things in life matter, and then there's a lot of other things that maybe they matter, but they matter a lot less. Trust God and do good.

Brian Perez: Great opening statement today from Chris Williams, licensed marriage and family therapist. We're going to go to the calls when we come back from the break. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Remember, you can also send us an email or leave us a voicemail, but we so prefer dialoguing with you and hearing what's on your mind so that we can help you. We want to do that today for two hours, so grab an open line.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: We are just a few weeks away from the start of three New Life courses that we're going to be doing online. These are 12 weeks, one hour a week, and they are fantastic. There's three of them: Take Your Life Back, Healing is a Choice, and Lose It for Life.

You can get information about each one specifically on our website, NewLife.com. You can also call and speak with one of our ministry service representatives at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. If you've taken one already, it is time to take another because these are very helpful for your life. Again, the three New Life courses begin the week of August 10th. 1-800-229-3000 is our number.

Let's take our first call of the day. It is from Brandon in Joplin, Missouri, who is listening to us on the New Life app. Hey Brandon, thank you so much for downloading the app and for calling in today to New Life Live.

Brandon: Thanks for taking my call. Over the past several years, I've dealt with past hurts, habits, and hang-ups that I've had over a period of maybe 15 years. It stemmed into drug use and just one thing and another. I've had some battles in the mind.

It felt more like a prison. That topic that was brought up today, that your past is that prison hold, is something I think about back and forth. I don't want to think about the past and I don't want to return to that because I know there's destruction and nothing good. I realize that once God has forgiven me, he's blotted that out of his memory and he doesn't remember it, but I at times do remember that.

Chris Williams: Brandon, is what's happened in the past something that you have done or is it something that has been done to you, or both?

Brandon: Basically, it's things that I've brought on myself. I made choices instead of things that I've dealt with. You mentioned there's been a struggle with drug abuse. My guess is that there's been a struggle in relationships and hurts from relationships. I've gotten into some toxic relationships because of the drug use and it definitely has caused some issues in the relationships.

Chris Williams: Brandon, was there substance abuse in the home that you grew up in, whether that be drugs or alcohol? Does that exist in your family?

Brandon: It did not. I've had some family members that have had drug use in the past, but not immediate.

Chris Williams: If I understand correctly, you're really struggling with moving past the guilt, shame, and regret of the decisions and struggles of your past to move forward into a better today or tomorrow. Did I get that correct?

Brandon: Right.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: Are you struggling with letting go of the past? You mentioned that God remembers it no more, but it comes back up for you. Do you feel like those memories being in your mind is part of what holds you back?

Brandon: They do. At times, I still definitely seem to have them come through my mind. Knowing the thought of returning to that is not even a question. I know what is back there.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: Here's the thing. It's a part of your story and I think trying to cut it off doesn't really serve us well because that's just us lying to ourselves. You said you know what's back there and you know what's back there because you have memories. Being able to look at the receipts and look in the rearview mirror to see where you've come from can also help you to go forward.

The problem is it sounds like when you look in the rearview mirror, you then fall into a shame pit. Now you're stuck and you can't move forward. Instead, you need to accept responsibility for the history, the past, the choices, the hurts, and the hang-ups. You're going to take responsibility for it and also for your healing because you are not in that place anymore. What does the future look like? What do you do now to maintain your sobriety? What are you doing that is good?

Brandon: On Saturday nights, I go to a recovery meeting here in Joplin. I try to make that usually something that I do almost every Saturday. There's a few Saturdays in between that I miss, but as far as I can, I try to do my recovery work.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: Tell us, Brandon, what can we help you with today? Do you have a question?

Brandon: That topic really stood out to me today. I thought I would just maybe get some advice or some things to press past that.

Chris Williams: Brandon, exactly what Jackie was saying, one of the things that comes along with addiction and the human experience is shame. As I define shame, it is an identity marker. It's trying to tell you who you are as a person. That is where I differentiate it from guilt.

Healthy guilt is a gift. It is a conscientious understanding and conviction that something in me is off and it needs to be on. It usually points to behavior, whereas shame points to identity. In recovery, especially recovery from addiction, there are three things. To oversimplify it, I'll say three things.

Number one, as Jackie said, you don't want to cut off that experience because you need to learn from it. It's actually part of your testimony. It's part of what connects you to other people, but it also informs you on who you are and where your liabilities are. Your recovery shows you where your strengths are as well. What we want to do is learn from our previous experiences.

Number two, we want to let go and heal. This is where you're at right now. You're at this point where letting go of your past mistakes is forgiveness. Along with forgiveness, there's a healing. There was damage that was done to you and damage that was done to other people. That's where a really good, strong twelve-step process comes into play.

We learn to take a look at ourselves in the deeper parts and see our character defects, our shortcomings, and our sin and learn to let it go. We also learn to not let it define us, but we learn how to own what we've done and make repairs with the people around us when we get into steps seven and eight. Letting go and healing is already embedded in the process.

Number three is to grow and stay in it. We are constantly growing, so I don't have to be the person I was yesterday or the person I was ten years ago because I'm not. We're all in formation when we intentionally engage in that. That internal shame monster that's going to tell you that you're not worthy, you don't belong, you're not good enough, and those struggles that you have are just who you are as a human being is the enemy trying to get you separated from God.

God has made you infinitely valuable and beloved as his son. This goes back to what I was saying at the very beginning of the show about my struggle to trust God. Trust that God's good and he wants goodness for you, not just externally but internally as well. As we engage in that, you may look at how this Saturday group is really helping you out. Add to it. Build on the things that work. Keep organizing your life around it.

The more that we work internally, the more that things work around us externally. We oftentimes get it the exact opposite. We believe that the more things work around us, the more they work inside of us, and that is just fundamentally untrue. You're on the path and I want to just keep encouraging you to build on it and separate your behavior from your identity.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: I would take that verse you heard Chris read, Proverbs 3:5-6: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart; lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him." You may need to change your thinking. If your thinking keeps coming back to the old you and beating you up, let's add some good.

Let's add whatever your life verse is. That one just happens to be mine. That verse is my saving grace and probably saved my marriage. When things are hard, that just automatically comes into my mind. God, I trust you and I will trust you in all things, and I know that you want good for me. I just meditate on that. I'm going to encourage you to come up with a verse that works for you. If this one spoke to you today, maybe start with this one so that you can now have something good rattling around in your mind to help nourish you rather than continue to push that shame monster forward.

Chris Williams: Jesus often talks about our hearts and our souls as soil. I think that metaphor is really important and powerful because anyone who grows up on the land knows that the soil has to be managed every day. Not to the same degree, don't get me wrong, but it's even like maintaining a house. If I don't take out the trash and the trash builds up, my soul and heart are the same thing.

Sometimes I get into this entitlement that I shouldn't have to do this daily work. I'm sorry, that's not how it works. Daily work is cultivating our hearts and souls and seeing where I am off and where I am on. That's why I love the work that we do here at New Life because it is about life recovery and recovering the life that God has for us.

Recovery looks so much like taking out the trash every day. It really does. We want the big highs and the big spiritual experiences on the mountaintops or the big epiphanies. I honor those, but those are only supported by sweeping the floor, by making the bed, and by tending to the details of our hearts. One of the things in my journal entries is confession. It's getting it out. I'm struggling with greed here, lust here, or malice here. That's a good recovery program. Keeping it clean keeps fresh soil so that good things can grow.

Brian Perez: We've got Life Recovery groups through New Life that we can put you in contact with. You can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or go to NewLife.com. We'll find one in your area or one that meets online. Also for you, Brandon, I mentioned the three New Life online courses that we're going to be starting in a few weeks. Take Your Life Back would be an excellent one for you to sign up for. We'll be right back here on New Life Live.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. For over 30 years, Covenant Hills has helped men and women find lasting freedom from addiction through Christ-centered, clinically excellent care. With gender-specific programs, they offer residential treatment, day treatment, and ongoing support that heals the whole person: body, mind, and spirit. If you or someone you love is struggling, call Covenant Hills. Their number is 1-800-NO-ABUSE, 1-800-662-2873. You can also visit the Covenant Hills website, CovHills.com.

Brian Perez: This is New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, here with Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris and Chris Williams. We're going to be in the studio for the rest of this hour and all of next, so call in. We would love to speak with you like we did with Brandon just a few minutes ago. 1-800-229-3000 is our number.

If you can't call us when we're here in the studio, we understand. We've got a couple of other ways that you can get your question to us. You can email us or you can leave us a voicemail. The instructions on how to do that are on our website, NewLife.com/radio.

Here's one of those questions that was submitted online. It is from Bonnie who asks, "What are my options in my marriage with no intimacy and my husband having an emotional affair?"

Bonnie says, "Thank you for your show. I listen to it daily. It has helped me in many ways. My husband has a close friendship with a married girl that is half his age. It began before she was married, about five years ago, at a horse event that they both compete in. She moved away and lives with her husband and her daughter and their baby. They communicate via phone mainly, a few days a week.

It was daily, but I told him he was spending too much time talking to her when he's married to me and has much responsibility on our farm and with business. He assures me that they only talk about their sport and sometimes her family problems. She's not saved, but they have discussed spiritual matters. She now attends a Catholic church.

I know I've been overly sensitive, but I told him that he is creating a bond whether he knows it or not. I suffer PTSD from much abandonment from my biological father, mother, ex-husband, and my daughter. When I bring up the subject of this relationship, he uses other people against me, name-calls, and brings up every little thing that we disagreed on as far back as 36 years ago.

I did have a one-night affair in the heat of the worst in our relationship. This gave me the strength to pick everything up and move out, including my dogs. I regret this night and have apologized, and he asked me to be truthful. I admitted it and he uses it against me all the time with cursing and being vulgar. In counseling, he gets extremely angry if he feels he's being blamed in even the slightest way.

This feels so discouraging, especially when he finds it normal to attack every part of me for every mistake and what I do or say that doesn't live up to his expectations. We have not had intimacy for the last several years, which, yes, this is my fault also. I recently became very paranoid and distraught when he told me that he has someone else and will be with her, but he said this is because he was mad. I left Joe twice. His promises to adore me and get along have always worked to bring us back together, but here we are again and my patience is nil at this point. This afternoon, I'm going for my first EMDR treatment."

So Dr. Jackie, what would you say to Bonnie?

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: There's a lot there. One, I'm really glad she's going for her EMDR treatment. I'm also glad she pushed on the relationship. Sometimes people think that a friendship with a person of the opposite gender is just fine, but as she said, you're spending more time talking to her than you're talking to me and that is building a bond. Before we know it, now we're in an emotional affair, and that might even lead to something else.

For him to say that he has somebody else that he's going to be with, whether he was lying or just rescinded his truth, is a lot of pain that she's managing. My suggestion to Bonnie would be to focus on her own work so that she can get her mind clear to make the best decisions for herself. There is a tendency for some people to live their life in such a way that they don't get their needs met unless someone else meets those needs. They genuinely believe that's how life should work.

They're not going to take care of their own needs, but this person adores me and they're going to prove it by doing what I need them to do. That also means that that person may have to go against their own beliefs or identity or change who they are in order to satisfy this other person, and life is not going to be satisfying that way. People feel like they're being selfish if they put themselves first.

I always say if you've ever flown on a plane, you know that you have to put your mask on first. I do believe unfortunately there's evil in the world and there are people who would put on their mask and watch you die of lack of oxygen. For the most of us, if we put our mask on, we're immediately going to help the person next to us. If I am unconscious, I can't do anything for you. I think Bonnie has spent a lot of time waiting for him to make it right when she's got some work she needs to do for herself. Then she'll be able to make healthier decisions.

Brian Perez: She's going to EMDR starting this afternoon, which is great. What is EMDR for people who don't know?

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing.

Brian Perez: Got it. You can find out more about that on our website. Chris Williams, what do you have to say about Bonnie's question?

Chris Williams: It really is just echoing what you said, Jackie. The line I like to use is "two unhealthy people cannot make a healthy marriage." In math, two negatives make a positive, but not here. I see that marriage is a multiplier. When we look at scripture, it says "the two will become one." One plus one does not equal one, but one times one equals one.

Whatever is unhealthy in you, when you get married, it's going to multiply. Whatever is healthy in you, hopefully in marriage, it can also multiply. What I find is that even one unhealthy person in a marriage makes marriage really difficult. If you're in an unhealthy marriage and you know that you are unhealthy, get healthy first. Get into your healing and get into your growth because what is very obvious in what Bonnie was describing in her marriage is they don't even know what healthy relational behavior looks like, sounds like, or feels like.

They are two teenagers mad at each other trying to figure it out, causing a lot of destruction saying, "Well, if you do this, then I'll do that." That sounds harsh, but they are stuck in really immature relational patterns and behaviors. Someone needs healing and someone needs growth. Bonnie, that's you. Go first. As you do, then it'll become clear on how to set boundaries and the decisions that you need to make. Continue with your EMDR and go seek other healthy female relationships in your life that can show you what it looks like, including the resources that we have here at New Life.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: Intimacy in marriage would be good for them and restore.

Brian Perez: Intimacy in marriage for you as a couple, that begins July 24th. That is next Friday. We would love to see you there. It's in Washington, D.C. And then for you, Bonnie, the Restore: Healing After Betrayal intensive in November. That's also in Washington.

Before the Restore intensive, we have a one-day virtual gathering that's happening on Saturday, August 1st. It's four hours. You can find out about that on our website, NewLife.com. It's called Rescue. Everything we do here at New Life is thanks to your gracious financial support. Thank you so much for whatever you can do by donating at NewLife.com.

You can also text NLM to 28950. You can support us with a one-time gift or maybe become a monthly 99 for the 1 partner. That sends biblical counsel over the airwaves and multiplies stories of marriages restored, addictions broken, and lives renewed. Don't just listen to life change; be part of it too. Join 99 for the 1 partners today at NewLife.com. Every gift helps.

Let's go to the phones. Here is Kathy in Redmond, Oregon, who listens to us on Sirius XM, Channel 131. Hi Kathy, how are you?

Kathy: I'm good. How are you?

Brian Perez: Not bad. Thanks for asking.

Kathy: My question is how do I pursue? I have a daughter that was military for eight years and went to Iraq in 2003. She's lived on and off on the streets, drug-addicted. I had some contact with her last probably eight years ago and now nothing. I've been really worried about her recently. Her dad's in bad health and so I wanted a way to contact her.

I've been praying about trying to find her, but I just can't seem to get an answer from the Lord. I thought I would call to see what is the best way to handle this. Should I try and pursue? She's an ocean away from me. Or should I just back off and completely leave it in the Lord's hands?

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: The mom in me is absolutely pursuing, but I'm not sure that it would be in the way that you would pursue. I'm prior military, and so I'm thinking about her PTSD and support she might need. I believe in keeping the door open to relationship with my kids, but also not tolerating what's not tolerable. She's an adult and she's out there, but she's also hurting, and that would be the reason why I would be looking for her.

She's hurting and she's alone and she's living on the streets. But you said it's been eight years and she's an ocean away. You're not getting an answer from God. Is it possible you're getting an answer and the answer is no? He may be saying just be silent.

Kathy: That's what I've wondered. Occasionally, I'll look at the court website just to see because she's been arrested a couple of times. For a couple of years, there's been nothing. Recently, she was arrested apparently with possession charges, although apparently it was satisfied. I think what happened was that she was kicked out of veterans' housing because of that. I'm assuming she's back on the street again. This is all just me guessing and trying to put it together the best I can with what I think could be happening, which could be completely different than the reality. Do you have a way of contacting her?

Kathy: None. I've tried in the past.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: I think that's your answer right there. You don't have a way of contacting her. So what's next? If you don't really have a way to reach her, then what is it that you're asking God for?

Kathy: If I should try to go look for her in the homeless communities. The reason it's been on my mind lately is her dad is 82 and in poor health. I want a way to contact her if something happens to him, but maybe that's not up to me to do that. I just would feel like she'd want to know, although she hasn't contacted us in eight years. I just want to get her help if there is someone out there that would be a mentor or whatever to her or find her and lead her back to God. Obviously it isn't me. Those are my prayers.

Chris Williams: It's so heartbreaking, Kathy. The complication here of her dad's health, her health, her condition, and the estrangement all in the middle of it creates these layers of grief, layers of loss, and pain. That's what I want you to pay attention to because oftentimes pain is going to get us to start taking actions. We want to make sure that the actions are in alignment with what's healthiest.

I personally think that if there is the desire to make contact with her, I think that's good and healthy. But you have to understand as you're grappling with this: what's your part and what's her part? Does she have your contact information? If she were to reach out to you, does she know how to get a hold of you?

Kathy: Yes, nothing's changed, so she could.

Chris Williams: That's just this understanding that if it was in her right now to do it, she would. But it's not within her. Notice how I just kind of demarked it. I understand the nature of addiction and definitely understand the nature of PTSD and addiction and probably the layers that she's buried underneath.

With that said, I don't think it's a bad idea to go and reach out to her to offer another "we're here, we care, we're here to help if you need help." If you're reaching out looking for some sort of closure or reconciliation with Dad, I think that's a setup for disappointment. Mostly because she needs a lot of help before she can ever get to that point. That's where it's living with and working through the grief of the loss of that relationship. That's significant. That's a big, tall order there.

Brian Perez: Kathy, we have a book in the NewLife.com store called When Your Adult Child Strays by our good friend, Dr. Jim Burns. Also, we want to invite you to the webinar that we're doing tomorrow night. Dr. Alice Benton is doing it. It's on grief. If you'll hold on the line, Kathy, we'll get you a free registration.

Everyone else, you can sign up for it by going to our website, NewLife.com, or just text the word "webinar" to 28950, and we'll text you back with a registration link and also a free tip sheet. That is going on tomorrow night. If you can't be there, sign up anyway because you can watch it for up to a week later.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: We are now banking calls for next hour because we're going to be here for another hour, so keep on calling. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Remember you don't have to use your real name. You can call on behalf of a friend. If it matters to you, it matters to us. 1-800-229-3000. Here's Mary in Dallas, Texas, listening on KWRD. Welcome, Mary, to New Life Live.

Mary: Thank you. I'm calling because I just wanted to get a little information on how I'm supposed to make myself feel better. I was in a long relationship for 20 years off and on and we got along really well, but I just felt like he let his family, mainly his daughter, dictate his relationship with me.

I feel so broken. I think he lied and told them things about me that wasn't true. I feel so used because I did so much for this man. I'm still doing stuff for him that I know I shouldn't. I've stuff still in my name that he's using.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: Mary, you said he let his daughter dictate the relationship with you. What did you mean by that?

Mary: She don't like me for some reason. I just think that she just bored and she just wants him to himself. I only thing that I have heard is that she don't like me because I don't spend time with her. But I did. I did things. She has her own mother. I did Christmas gifts ever since she was a little girl. I bought her things when her dad wasn't working. I did all of that and I never said I did. I always let him feel like he was the one.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: So she doesn't know that it was you doing all of that. You stood behind him. You did all those things, but you let him take credit for it. So she doesn't have that information. The relationship you had with her was through him. What you imagine to be true about her, the way you feel and think about her, isn't the relationship she had with you because it wasn't vocalized. You didn't build a relationship with her. Your focus was him. Because she's his daughter, you're loving him by making sure you get her a gift for this and celebrate that. In that way, you're hoping to honor him, but you did not build a relationship with her.

Mary: Well, we had relationships because I still bought her things. I talked to her; I tried to be there. It was like she has a mother and she was always with her mom. I would try to have conversations about personal things. I wanted that relationship, but it was never opened up to me.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: Then how did you get to the point that she was the problem with the relationship? What happened between you and your guy?

Mary: Because it was always nitpicking. It was so many other things. I don't even think he loved me anymore. I just think I was just there as a convenience.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: What makes you think he didn't love you? What did he do?

Mary: He never really showed me love. He didn't tell me as much that he loved me. There was times as to where he needed somewhere to stay and I was there. Even when he had left, I stayed there and I let him back in. The daughter don't even know about the things that I did for him.

Chris Williams: Mary, let me jump back in here. I do believe you're living in a loveless relationship or this was a loveless relationship and I believe you stayed in it for so long. But part of the problem I think that Jackie is pointing to is your definition of love is fundamentally broken.

That doesn't mean you're a bad person because you fall into this category that a lot of us can fall into. Love is an expression of possessions. It's an exchange economy. I do this for you, you do this for me. I give you a place to stay, you show me respect. I buy you presents, you have a deep conversation. That's not how authentic love actually works.

My guess is that you came by that very naturally. My guess is that you probably grew up in an environment where it was an exchange economy. Transactional. Thank you, Jackie. Love is reciprocal. It's regenerative, meaning it's in the atmosphere.

When we go back to scripture, love is patient, love is kind. Then we see what it's not: it does not envy, does not boast, is not proud, is not rude, is not easily angered, is not self-seeking. Love always hopes, always trusts, always perseveres. We start to see that there are ingredients to love that we all need. But when we're working with broken definitions, we end up getting broken love and then get frustrated over and over again. As long as love is an exchange economy of things, you're never going to get it.

Dr. Jackie Mac-Harris: Absolutely. You're never going to feel loved if you're waiting for a particular sensation. It's almost like chasing that high. People have an experience with someone and it feels so good and maybe it's the first time anyone's ever made you feel that way. You're like, "Oh this feels so good, this person loves me."

Well, they enjoyed a moment with you, but that not isn't necessarily love. Now you've decided that this is what love is and you expect that feeling to happen consistently and people aren't going to be able to live up to that. I find love to be a decision we make. It's a decision we make to do life in relationship with someone and we see them and we understand them and we know them.

As Chris said about the multiplier, two becoming one is bad math—only God can do that. Of course things multiply in a marriage. If we're not multiplying good, we're multiplying bad, and it sounds like there's been a lot of that and some codependency. You mentioned you are still doing things for him right now that you don't believe you should be doing, yet you've self-abandoned to do those things for him to get love, to leverage love. Now there's going to be disappointment because he's not going to meet you where you are. He's not going to meet your need. You must meet your need. All that you are buying, doing, giving, hosting, holding for others, what if you turned some of that onto yourself? That is where we start because that is the first problem.

Brian Perez: Mary, we suggest you sign up for the Take Your Life Back course that begins in just a few weeks through NewLife.com. We appreciate you calling us today. We're out of time for this hour, but if you're on hold right now, stay on hold. Carrie, Jose, we're going to talk to you guys when we come back. You can keep on calling too. 1-800-229-3000.

Guest (Male): Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to NewLife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.