New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Who's going to call in to New Life Live today? You're going to call in to New Life Live today. At least I hope so. Give us a call. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. We're going to be in the studio for the next two hours. I'm your host, Brian Perez.

If you want to talk about fear, trauma, doubt, any of these, or something else. What's holding you back? Call in. 1-800-229-3000 is that number because you do not have to live your life in fear and with doubts and trauma that affects you. So call in. I'm here with licensed professional clinical counselor Becky Brown, who is also the president of New Life Ministries. How are you, Becky?

Becky Brown: I'm doing well, Brian. I couldn't agree with you more. Call us.

Brian Perez: Yes, and licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West, making his second of three appearances this week. JJ, how are you? Okay, so he's not appearing. All right. So something's going on. We'll figure out where JJ is. Wait, I think I heard something in the background. JJ, was that you? No, guess not. Okay.

So Becky, I had this weird dream the other night that I introduced you and you had nothing to say. You had nothing on your mind. It was the bizarre thing. Yes, yes. But we know you always have something on your mind. What do you have today for us?

Becky Brown: Okay, here's the top takeaway. God will give me the strength to do my life or my job, not God's job. I think so many you were just talking about fears and doubts, and I think about the places that we get overwhelmed in life.

A phrase that we say around here all the time is life be lifing, because it's the truth. It doesn't matter if you are experiencing a stuck place in your relationship, or maybe you are feeling stuck in an addiction or stuck with a health issue and you just are wondering where God is. You get overwhelmed.

I was thinking about Jehoshaphat. I know that's a weird connection, isn't it? But you know, the story from 2 Chronicles. King Jehoshaphat and the people of Judah were feeling overwhelmed. In verse 12, he says, "Our God, won't you stop them? We're powerless against this mighty army that is about to attack us. We don't know what to do and we're looking to you for help."

I know if you're dealing with fears or doubts, or maybe shame and guilt, you don't know what to do. How do you take that step forward? You ask God for help, but it doesn't seem like He's doing His job, so then you start doing His job. I mean, I'm sure maybe I'm the only one that's ever done that, but along comes Jahaziel. I think that's how you say his name. He's a Levite prophet that prophesied that God would fight for them.

In verse 15, he says, "Listen, you people of Judah and Jerusalem. Listen, King Jehoshaphat. This is what the Lord says: Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged by this mighty army, for the battle is not yours, but God's." He goes on to say, "You won't even need to fight. Take your position, stand still, and watch the Lord's victory. He's with you."

I think so many times in our places of overwhelm, we've tried every strategy, or maybe we've even thought about every strategy because I am aware that so many people are stuck in places where they're waiting for God to do what God is waiting for them to do. We've said that many times over the years here at New Life because we want you to take a step into the transformed life that God is calling you to. But when we trust God with what He's doing in our lives and with the situation, He shows up in a mighty way, and then we look back and we say, "Look at God."

So at this moment, whatever you're dealing with and you need to get unstuck, you know we are a resource for you. You can call us. We will get you to the next step, or at least we'll invite you to the next step because that's really the challenge, right? Do not be overwhelmed. God is able to do more than you can ask or imagine.

Brian Perez: That's right. And we hope to get JJ West unstuck. In fact, I think I hear him there in the background. Yes, he's finally with us. Okay. So JJ's going to be joining us as well. So grab an open line while there's still time. We're going to be here for two hours today at New Life Live. The phone number to call is 1-800-229-3000.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

New Life Live isn't just a radio show. It's a podcast as well. You can connect with us on Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, really. You can watch on YouTube too, or on the podcast page at newlife.com. You don't ever have to miss an episode again. Plus, season three episodes of Every Man's Battle will be available on the New Life app.

Now, what is Every Man's Battle? That's another podcast we do, and JJ West is here to tell us about that. JJ, what's going on? Season three, huh?

JJ West: Season three. I am so excited about this new season. I'm so excited about the content. It's a new year, right? It's happy New Year. We're all talking about the new year and new things to do. So often I think in New Year's resolutions, they kind of center around. My wife and I were talking about this because she was listening to a podcast and she heard the speaker talk about how so much of our New Year's resolutions are centered around physical hygiene or physical health. I'm going to go back to the gym, I'm going to eat right, I'm going to stop drinking, I'm going to do whatever.

What value there is in actually focusing in on our mental hygiene, our mental health. So I hope that the podcast, both the New Life podcast as well as the Every Man's Battle podcast, is a way for the listeners to practice that mental hygiene or that mental health by getting you to look at some things maybe that you haven't looked at for a while or have never looked at.

This new season, season three, we've got new series. One of the things that we've brought in is we're interviewing the facilitators who serve at the Every Man's Battle intensive and getting their stories out, which I'm super excited about. I'm really looking forward to the audience getting to hear their stories. We've got new guests coming in as well as some familiar faces that we've had on the podcast before coming back, certainly Mark Cameron being one of those familiar faces.

But I'm super excited. It's still hard for me to believe that they let me do this and that they've let me do this now for three seasons in a row. But it's such a labor of love. I thoroughly enjoy it and I'm so grateful to be a part of it.

Brian Perez: And season three just started yesterday. If you haven't watched seasons one and two, you can watch those too. Everything's available on the New Life app or on YouTube.

Becky Brown: Brian, I was just going to jump in because I was so excited to watch them. JJ, you and Doug do a great job and one of the things that I just celebrate is we are doing season three. It's pretty amazing. What I would encourage anybody who's listening to the podcast, subscribe, because then it will consistently come into your feed. We just want to stay in touch with you. But thank you, JJ, for doing it and don't give us a reason to kick you out.

JJ West: I'll try not to. You know, but on that note, not only subscribe, but if you are receiving the EMB podcast newsletter—so it's embpodcast@newlife.com—you actually get bonus content, stuff that doesn't get released on the podcast goes out to those subscribers to the email list. All you have to do is send an email to embpodcast@newlife.com and put in the subject line: bonus content.

You'll be put on that email list. You'll get that regular bonus content coming out to you regularly. There's so much material we can't fit it all into the podcast, so we have to find new ways to get information out to the guys, get content out to the guys. So hopefully, if you are a listener, you've already subscribed, but if you haven't, make sure you send that email today.

Brian Perez: Awesome. And again, that email address is embpodcast@newlife.com. Put the words "bonus content" in the subject line, and then you'll start receiving that bonus content.

This is New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. If you can't call into the studio when we're here to answer questions, you can also submit your questions a couple of ways. We've got a voicemail set up and also an email. You can go to newlife.com/radio to get the email address and the phone number to leave your voicemail.

Here's one that Jody sent us and it says, "What are your thoughts about allowing a young boy under age six to put on a princess dress or to have play makeup put on him at his request? His cousins are near the same age. They frequently play together at their grandparent's house or at the cousins' house.

Several months ago, he asked to wear one of his cousin's princess dresses. When his mother said no, he threw a tantrum and turned to his grandmother for help. The grandmother tried to divert his attention with other play alternatives and activities, but she finally gave in to his sobbing pleas and put the princess dress on him, which made him happy.

The boy's father was not there, but when asked if her husband would approve, the boy's mother said her husband would not approve of him wearing a princess dress, but the mother did not object to her mother, the grandmother, putting the dress on him.

More recently, the female cousins were playing with their makeup kits when the boy quietly asked one of them to put makeup on him. His parents did not hear his request and his cousins didn't share their makeup, so nothing came of it, but this was not the first makeup request and I don't think it will be the last. There were lots of other male-appropriate toys and activities available at that time. The families are Christian and all children involved are or will be schooled in a faith-based home environment or private school. So what would you guys say?" Becky, we'll start with you on this one. How would you help?

Becky Brown: Well, how old did you say the boy was? Under age six. I mean, there's a lot of things that you can, I think it's interesting, you know, there was a time where this would be innocent child play. But now it is loaded. And what I've heard many different times when families have this concern is that this is going to plant the rest of this child's life.

What happens is it begins to be a weighted decision. Like, you know, do I make a big deal out of this? Do I restrict it? How do I move ahead in this? I think distraction can be a really big tool that we can use in situations where we're unsure of, you know, what the parents want. This is a grandparent talking, so there's different levels.

But I think when it comes to being afraid of if this is the seed that I'm planting for some different lifestyle, I don't know that that's where I would put my concerns. I do think that childhood play has been so restricted, we need areas where kids can play. They're children and we have made them adults way too early. So I know that's not really an answer, but what I would say to grandmother is take a breath, make sure that mom and dad are in line with what you are doing, like whatever the situation is. And if they're not, then it might be that we distract them and find some other activity to do and then hand them back to mom and dad.

JJ West: Yeah, I agree. I don't think that a young boy putting on a princess dress or wanting to put on makeup is somehow indicative of, oh, he's going to want to be a cross-dresser, or he's going to want to have a sex change operation, or he's gay or whatever. It doesn't mean any of that. It means that he looks up to his cousins and he wants to play with them and he wants to be part of their world. It's totally okay for young children to explore. This is their exploration. It's not indicative of their sexual preference or of their sexual identity.

I agree with Becky that we tend to get really fearful as parents and we're trying to protect our children, and that's good, that's coming out of our good heart. But we shouldn't let decisions be driven by fear. Scripture is very clear on this, right? That love drives out fear, and God doesn't give us a spirit of fear, He gives us a spirit of sound mind. So we want to be reasoned in our approach.

Now, there's a couple of things going on here that we need to address. One is certainly the issue of, okay, is it okay for this little boy to be playing with "feminine toys" or "feminine dress" or "feminine play"? I think it's okay for him to explore that and to continue to model for him, oh, yeah, we have, I have a good relationship with my dad and maybe he has male cousins as well and oh, I see now that they play differently than my girl cousins. As he's getting older, he's going to start to see that as long as he has those good healthy relationships with males.

But the second issue is the way in which this all went down, and it's not a good pattern to restrict something and then when a child throws a temper tantrum to then finally give in to get them to stop crying. It's far better to set rules and stick with them. Now, I don't think that was maybe the best rule to set, I think it was okay for the little kid to explore, but I don't think it's a good precedent to give in to a child who is throwing a temper tantrum. You want to teach them, train them how to ask for things in appropriate ways and how to handle no's because we don't always get what we want. We don't always get the thing that we're asking for, and it's okay to work through that disappointment of "no" rather than just pouting or whining or fuming until I get my way, because that's not how the world works.

Brian Perez: Whether it's makeup or a princess dress, I mean, there are so many kids who will shout and pout and cry when they don't get their way. But so you're saying that this is just another, this is like a kid wanting to play in the middle of the street, or wanting to go out in the rain without proper clothing or whatever.

Becky Brown: Well, I don't think it's the same because in those situations, that is a standard of care, right? Like don't run in the road, don't play when you're going to get sick. That's what it's getting equated to. And so the play part of it is really important and again, like I just said, we don't allow children to have a childhood anymore. We, if he's trying on a dress, that must mean that that's what his adult decision is going to be for the rest of his life.

Well, that's not true. But we do have parents that are making those decisions as well, which what they don't realize is we need children to experience play. We actually talk about this at our Intimacy and Marriage Intensive where couples, we don't play as adults. We don't find places where we can enjoy life. Everything is so serious and we have some sort of, like, it has to be a certain way all the time. What I want to encourage is let's start a play movement for children just to experience life and lots of different things outside. I would love to see that where you're not in an organized activity and you don't have to be told this is how you scoop the sand into the bucket. I mean, it's really a matter of giving them space that's safe and a way for them to explore all the possibilities of life.

JJ West: Yeah. Well, and just anecdotally, I will say, and I'm sure my experience is very similar to a lot of guys, I had two older sisters who would dress me up in one of my mom's dresses as a just a fun play, right? And it didn't set me up for wanting to cross-dress or questioning my sexual identity. It's simply an avenue of play. It's make-believe, right? And we need that as children because, well, a couple of reasons. One, it helps us with creativity, helps us with working with others, all of that.

But it's also important in the sexual development of a child. When I have a healthy relationship as a male growing up, my sexual development, if I have a healthy relationship with my father figure, my same-sex parent, as I hit puberty, then my curiosity gets awakened and now I'm wanting to explore what's unknown, which is the opposite sex. But if I'm not able to develop that creativity, that ingenuity, if I'm not able to play, I don't get a chance to do that. It gets warped. So it's not an unhealthy thing for a little boy to play this way provided that we're also making sure that he has really good relationships either with his own father or, if his father is absent, has good father figures and older males in his life who are healthy and have a good relationship with him.

Brian Perez: How often do we hear the reverse happening, too, where young girls who wanted to play roughhouse with boys or whatever and they were like, I was a tomboy, but that didn't mean that I grew up to want to be a boy or anything. It was just that stage early in life.

All right, so thank you so much for sending in your question online. There's two ways to do that. You can email us or you can leave us a voicemail, and all the directions are on our website, newlife.com/radio. But if you can call us right now, that would be great. We are going to be here in the studio for two hours today and we would love to help you with whatever you're going through, if it's depression or anxiety or maybe a gambling issue or there's so many different things that we can talk about: your relationship with your spouse or your kids or grandkids, or how's your work situation going?

Let's talk about it today. We've got Becky Brown and JJ West here for the rest of this hour and all of next. So call in to 1-800-229-3000. Maria in Austin, Texas, we're going to talk to you when we come back from the break here on New Life Live.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Maria in Austin, Texas is watching us on YouTube. So let's wave hi to Maria and thank you for calling in today to New Life Live at 1-800-229-3000. How can we help you?

Maria: I have a question. How can I help my 27-year-old son to get a job since he have a felony? He's living with us right now.

Brian Perez: He's 27, he has a felony, you said?

Maria: Yes. He went to the agency and he have one for six months. He passed the test, he was ready to get hired. And that day that he was going to get hired, I imagine they check his background and they said, "No, you're not coming in. Go with the working agency and find out." He's very depressed and he abuse Adderall, that's why he hurt his son. Now, I mean, he soon will be 28 and he's been living with us for a year.

Becky Brown: Maria, I was just going to ask, was he in prison for this felony or tell how did he get back to your house?

Maria: He got back because he got fired from the pizza place that he worked. Of course, he was in debt and those six months give him enough money living free here to pay whatever was his debt. But I don't see any change on him. Now, even if he doesn't have health insurance, I know that he went back to the doctor that happens to be my same family doctor for Adderall. That's what it got him in trouble because he hurt his at the time, three-month-old son. That was a foster thing and the son lived with us for 18 months, but the judge give it to the mom even if she does OnlyFans and all this other stuff. But she's living already with another man. I mean, it's a whole mess. But we as a grandparents have no rights.

Becky Brown: Right. But Maria, this is the reason why I asked is because it sounds like there's a lot going on but there's not a lot of conversation going on with you and your son. Like, what's the plan? This is a conversation, whether he had a felony or not, would be important to have. What are our expectations? What do we need from you? What kind of support is he getting? I understand it can be difficult with a felony on your record to get a job.

But I also know so many people who have had felonies who get the support and when they go to apply for a job, they're upfront, there's a process, an understanding about what happened and here's what I did to serve my sentence and then you move forward. But here's the other part of this. This isn't yours to solve, Maria. Your problem to solve is the connection or the communication between you and your son about what is expected if he stays in the home. How is he contributing to expenses and what's the expectation for any responsibilities that he might participate in? And I just, I'm not hearing that in what you're talking about. It sounds like it would be great if you got a job so he can get out of the house, which, you know, that may be what his goal is, but if you don't know and you're asking, "How do I do this for him?" I think that's the wrong question.

JJ West: Yeah, I agree. I do think that's the wrong question because you can't solve it for him. It's not yours to solve, as you said, Becky. It's not Maria, it's not yours to solve. What is yours to work on is what Becky talked about, that you have very clear guidelines, boundaries, expectations that you set out with your son.

Okay, so you've moved back in. What's your plan? Is your plan to live here permanently? Is your plan to live here for a certain period of time? And also what are you and whoever, if your husband is there, whoever's responsible for the house, what are you comfortable with? Are you comfortable with him living there indefinitely or do you have a time frame in mind? And have you communicated that to him?

As Becky talked about, what are the expectations while he's living there? Does he pay rent? If so, how much? What responsibilities does he have for care and upkeep of the house while he's there? What level of cleanliness? Are there rules around who he can have over, when? All of those things need to be talked about. And if, in fact, what your hope is that he would get a job so that he can be out on his own, you want to lay that out, right? That's the goal. That's the hope. That's the desire. And you may need to make a choice or make it so that he's incentivized to leave. So in other words, it's not completely comfortable staying there. You want to give him some reasons.

Becky Brown: Unless you want him to.

Maria: No, my worst nightmare is my husband die and he still living with me and I cannot die until that he leaves. No, we have a bad communication. My husband doesn't want to confront, he's been pay-free rent. But I told him, in February 1st, you're going to have to give us $100 just because he doesn't seem in any hurry. He told me last time that he have $200 in his bank account. But at the beginning when he move, I said, "You have to go to a group in the church."

Brian Perez: Okay, Maria, we gotta go to break. So hang on the line, we'll be right back. Yeah, we'll continue our conversation with Maria and all the other calls that are coming in today to New Life Live. You guys must have heard me say that we're here for two hours today, so yeah, call in. We'd love to talk to you and figure out what you're going through. We've got JJ West and Becky Brown here. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call.

Today's podcast is brought to you by Club New Life supporters who give a monthly donation because they want to continue to offer help and hope in these very, very difficult places. To find out more about Club New Life, you can go to our website newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now if you're new to us, we drop an episode every weekday. We would love it if you would rate or write a review, which helps more people discover help and hope and helps us share wisdom with as many people as possible. Now let's listen to our counselors as they help people walk through life's hardest places.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Maria in Texas, are you still with us?

Maria: Yes.

Brian Perez: All right, and then we have Mary in Texas coming up next. But Maria, let's continue with you for a little bit.

Becky Brown: Maria, I have a realization that you may already know this. You have a man problem. If your husband isn't stepping up and then your son's doing the same thing and you're feeling all of this overwhelm, just like I started the show with, the challenge that you have is to step into your own strength.

So the way that you will have to make this happen will be you get with a counselor and you strategize. What does it look like for me to create boundaries not in a reactive mode, but in a proactive mode? You know, there's a lot of people who have multi-generational houses. So that's not the issue if it's not the issue. But if he's going to stay there, what does that look like? Is that what you want, Maria? I would imagine if he was working and contributing to the household and part of the family, you probably wouldn't be calling us today, right?

Maria: Yes, yes.

Becky Brown: Right. So have you ever talked to somebody about how to make a strategy for communication in your family?

Maria: No, I have a counselor, but pretty much I go, she hears me, "Oh, yeah," and that's it. Like a friend. So no, I need advice. It's just not progressing. And I've been having so many counselors. Also my son, if I try to find him, "Hey, Sebastian, this or that or whatever is going on," no, you just can tell that he doesn't want any kind of relationship. I say, "Why you don't want a relationship with me or with your dad? If I didn't want to have a relationship before, what it makes you think that I won't want now?" He talks this way when my husband is not around, even if between them they also don't have a good relationship. He kind of does these things when he's not around, right?

Becky Brown: Well, right. Okay, so Maria, this is almost like a family counselor project here. We almost need somebody to get the three of you together and to iron out, okay, this is, you know, whether he wants to have a relationship with you all or not, he has one because he lives in your house and he's eating your food and he's using your electricity and all of those kind of things, and he's doing it with a resentful heart, which is probably why he got the felony to begin with.

But I don't want you to have a counselor that's your friend. I love counselors, I am one. But you've got work to be done, Maria. And so here's what I would suggest. I would ask this current counselor, I don't want you to keep shopping if you can make this one work, to have a family session so that the result is in February 1st when he's got to leave, that we have an understanding of how that's going to happen. And we're not going to fix everything with one session, but in order to heal the family, we've got to have, you know, why is your son so mad? And why is your husband so, you know, detached? These are things that can be worked out. But you gotta start with more than just that sharing with the counselor and not getting the direction. And I know that it does happen, I'm so sorry.

JJ West: Yeah, and I would just add to that, when you do family sessions, you want to lay out that the goal is we're working on our relationships, the family dynamic, and what's broken in our family relationships, not "We're go in there to fix you. You're the problem, you come to family counseling so the counselor can fix you and get your problems out of my face." That's not the goal of family counseling. The goal of family counseling needs to be, hey, we have a broken way of relating, we have a broken way of communicating, and this is a professional that can help us as a family learn how to communicate and how to relate in a healthier way so that we enjoy our relationships because that's what we ultimately want.

Brian Perez: Indeed. And Maria, thanks for calling today. We've got a couple of resources in the newlife.com store that could help you. I'm thinking of boundaries and also Doing Life with Your Adult Children. Stay on hold, we'll also put you in touch with a counselor from the New Life network. So thanks for calling today to New Life Live.

We're going to speak with Mary in Dallas, Texas, who's listening on newlife.com. Hi there, Mary. Thanks for calling today.

Mary: Yes, can you hear me, sir?

Brian Perez: Yes, loud and clear.

Mary: Okay, my situation is really not a situation. It's just like I just need to hear another backboard. I go to church, I'm saved, and my heart is to reach the lost. So now, I joined a church not too long ago, and you know, at the end of your orientation they ask, "Well, what do you want to do?" Because they want you to get involved with church activities, right?

So what I do is I've already been involved in my activities doing outreach. So I wanted to properly start outreach there at the church. I'm trying to keep it short, but I presented to the pastor the group, what I would want to call a group, and show this because a lot of people are not into outreach. You're going to get a lot of opposition. Nobody's beating a door to go out and reach what God commanded us to do, the Great Commission. They just are not. You've got more people behind the pulpit, behind the four walls, that's running over. But as far as going out, reaching people, you don't have to be on a bullhorn, being creative, it's not there.

So now I haven't heard from him. And he's not getting back, but he's sending other ministers to try to like, "Oh, well, why don't you think about doing something else?" Plus, I was in the hospital and he hasn't even had the common courtesy to pick the phone up and say, "Dog or rat, how you doing? How are you feeling?" That's a mess for a pastor. I'm a member. I'm not a drifter in the street. And this shows you the times we're living in. This is what we've got. A lot of pastoring is a lot of foolishness in our house of prayer. But Matthew 12:36 says for every idle word and everything you say is being recorded.

Becky Brown: Well, Mary, I know that there's a lot of hurt feelings and that you have a strong call on your life to reach people. And I love that. I love that. Here's where the enemy gets us. That resentment and bitterness that I'm hearing towards the church is going to impact your call.

And what I want you to do is I want you to offer grace to them, you know, and get curious about why there hasn't been communication. But when we approach the systems in the church, and there's lots of different ways that we do this, and we have a heart of bitterness or resentment, and justifiable—I mean, Mary, I don't blame you, if you're in the hospital you want to have a pastoral call or you want to have somebody check in on you. I get all of that.

The challenge that you have is that you want to present yourself as someone who is not in a reactive mode but is leaning into her calling. And I want you to, I love that you want to serve. We do need so many people to reach the lost. But what I don't want for you is to trip over the justifiable bitterness and resentment. I get that, but it will be the thing that undoes the very thing that you want to lean into.

Mary: I'm just so shocked I'm getting opposition against my own brother.

Becky Brown: Yeah, oh, I'm sure it is shocking. I'm certain of it. But I just want you to lean into what God has called you to do.

Mary: He's not gonna stop me. I'm gonna be out there doing this.

JJ West: Right. We're all for you reaching out to people, exactly. But you know, Mary, I think what Becky's trying to say or what she's trying to communicate is, listen, we're not responsible for the sin that's done to us, and you may have been sinned against in some significant ways either by this church or by previous churches. You're not responsible for the sin that's done to you, but we are responsible for our sinful response to sin that's done to us.

We can have a sinful response to someone sinning against us, and that sinful response can be bitterness, can be resentment, can be revenge, right? None of those things are godly. And so we want to be always checking our heart in terms of what my response is to a sin that's done to me. Now, it may be that the church that you said you've been a part of this church for a few months, it may be that the church that you're a part of is not a healthy church, and it may be that this is a sign to not be a part of that. But you want to do it in a way that's good for you. If in fact you need to move on, that you do it in a way that you're still offering love and grace and mercy to those around you, no matter what they have done to you. Because that's the way Christ modeled for us, right? And that's what He teaches us over and over again is that we're not to exact revenge but to continue to show love to our enemies.

Brian Perez: Yeah, and again JJ's not saying that this is an unhealthy church. He said it might be an unhealthy church. But you know, you just got some good advice there from Becky and JJ to not let this root of bitterness start to fester in your heart because that's going to affect even if you just do this outreach ministry on your own. I mean, that's going to affect the way you interact with others. And then if you do lead someone to Christ and they say, "Oh, what church should I go to?" Well, "Don't go to that church because," you know, and that's not what we need in the body of Christ. So thanks for calling today to New Life Live.

Becky Brown and JJ West are on the program with me today. And JJ West will be heading west for our first intensive of 2026. Every Man's Battle helps men facing sexual integrity issues. It's coming to Orange County, California the weekend of January 23rd. JJ, you started today's show telling us about the Every Man's Battle podcast. Why isn't just listening to the podcast enough for guys who are really struggling with sexual integrity? What type of breakthrough can be expected at the workshop?

JJ West: Yeah, that's a great question, Brian, and so many people do think, "Oh, I just need more information so I'll listen to the podcast, I'll read a book, I'll attend an online seminar," something like that and that'll fix it for me. The danger with that is not recognizing or realizing the importance of community. That really the only way we break free because sexual addiction, like all addictions, it's a disease of isolation.

When I am filled with the shame and guilt, and some conviction, over my sin, over my sinful choices, I want to withdraw, I want to isolate, and that keeps me further locked in the sinful broken pattern. And so what happens at the Every Man's Battle intensive is you experience authentic community where you're known. For many guys for the first time in their lives, they're known and they're loved. And that's the breakthrough, is that I can be fully known and fully loved, fully accepted and be in relationship where I can share these things that I thought if it got out, it would destroy me. But in fact me sharing my story, me telling the truth about me, actually leads to my freedom. And you can't get that from just listening to a podcast or reading a book.

Brian Perez: Yeah, so you can get all the details about this at newlife.com. It begins January 23rd and if you sign up by this Friday the 9th, you'll get a discount on the registration. So again, go to newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. And if you want to talk to us on the phone today, we are at 1-800-229-3000.

We've got Liz in Bismarck, North Dakota calling in, listening on KPGN. Welcome to New Life Live, Liz.

Liz: Thank you and thank you for taking my call. I'm wondering and I hesitate to say that the other person that I'm talking about has a narcissistic personality, but I'm wondering if it's me or it's him, whichever one of us has the narcissistic personality. Can you expect a therapist to be able to discern what God's truth is? Because as a couple there's two truths and each truly believes their truth, but they're totally different. Can a therapist discern between the two whose's telling the truth?

Becky Brown: So Liz, the short answer is yes. And to the statement that you just made, there's actually three sides to every story in a marriage. It's his, hers, and the truth, because it is the version that you are believing. Now, the challenge, my first question to you would be what brought you into the counseling office? Like, what problem are you trying to solve? Because when you ask yourself if you're a narcissist, that almost always cancels out the fact that you might be a narcissist because narcissists don't ask if they're narcissistic. They think everybody else is at fault. So I would probably cancel that out. But what brought you into counseling? What problem are you trying to solve?

Liz: When I went to counseling, it was because my mom had passed away and it was just getting depressed and it was just really hard to not have her. She was the one that loved me unconditionally, you know, no matter what I did or said I knew she loved me. And then I was in a hard marriage and she knew it was a hard marriage, but I didn't share details because I didn't want her to worry. There was a lot of manipulation and anyway, I went to the therapist and then we talked about my marriage and he thought maybe he could help us with our marriage too. So then my husband started coming to therapy too and we did it individually at first, and then the therapist would say some things like, "You know, you both have been so abusive to each other." I never really felt I had been abusive of him. I felt I failed of meeting his expectations, but I didn't feel like I was abusive.

Brian Perez: So did you ask the therapist what he meant by you being abusive of your husband?

Liz: I actually didn't, and it was maybe because I wasn't totally honest about how bad it was and I don't know what is in me that thinks I need to kind of protect him.

Becky Brown: Well, but Liz, in a marriage, a lot of times in marriage we, it's like its own universe. And a lot of times when they are unhealthy, each spouse has their own little version of how this is going and it sounds to me like your husband had one that he told the therapist that doesn't align with how you experience it. And you just asked why didn't I speak up, well, it could be because that's part of the script that you guys follow, that you're not supposed to speak up. Just in one suggestion I would have is for you to join one of our courses, either Take Your Life Back or Healing is a Choice, where this isn't the focus, but it's really about your own healing, Liz, so that then as you decide how to move forward in your life or in your marriage, you've also got some healing for the grief that you have experienced and just can find your voice in a larger way.

JJ West: Yeah, I think that's a great suggestion and then I would add, Liz, I don't know why you and your husband didn't go to marriage counseling together, but you did the individual sessions.

Liz: Well, we actually did try a couple sessions that way and then our therapist actually said to us that he didn't know if he could help us, that we could either he could refer us to a different therapist or he would continue to see my husband individually. But we both quit then. I'm actually separated from him since then.

JJ West: So it's unclear whether you're going to continue to work on the relationship at this point. But if you decided that you were going to go back to couples counseling, would the therapist be able to discern what's really going on? So as Becky said, the short answer is yes. But they don't have a direct line to God where He's giving them words of knowledge or some crystal ball where they can see everything that's happening.

It's going to be important that both of you are present and telling the truth about what's really going on in the relationship because the only way we can actually work on healing is if we're bringing those things that have been in secret, those things that have been in darkness, into the light where God then works to bring about healing. But it's going to require both of you to be present. I would encourage you to maybe go back to the therapist and get that referral to someone who could work with the two of you together if you decide to go that route, and I know that hasn't been decided yet.

Brian Perez: Liz, thanks for calling today to New Life Live, and you can find out more information about those two courses that we're offering. They begin January 29th. They are 12-week courses, one hour a week. One's called Take Your Life Back, the other one is Healing is a Choice. Again, go to newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

That does it for this hour, but we're going to be in the studio for another hour. So keep those calls a-coming. We want to help you with whatever it is you're going through in life. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call. God bless you guys. Thanks for telling your friends about us. We are New Life Ministries at newlife.com.

Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information, and thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.