New Life LIVE

Announcer: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: You're just in time for the B-team edition of New Life Live. Let me explain. It's Benton, Burns, and Brian in the studio for the next two hours. I'm talking clinical psychologist Dr. Alice Benton, Dr. Jim Burns, the founder of Homeward, and I'm Brian Perez. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call if trauma, doubt, fear, or something else is holding you back. Know this: it doesn't have to stay that way. Call us for the next two hours at 1-800-229-3000. We've got free advice here. Dr. Alice, what's on your mind to start us off?

Dr. Alice Benton: A common reason why some marriages experience decay. A man told me not too long ago, "Would you remind my wife of her biblical obligation for physical intimacy with me?" I let him know, "If I do what you're asking me to, I will cause more problems in your marriage." Now, this is a really painful state of many marriages. We tend to hear more about the cost and the price that men pay in a marriage with little to no sexual intimacy, but it costs women as well.

I want to talk about some of the reasons why this happens and what to do about it. I want to warn men against pushing for that biblical edge. This is why you must engage with me. It just doesn't work; it causes more problems. Often, and I'm speaking to the men here in particular, but this can be true for women as well, there's a lack of emotional safety.

Men, if you grew up in a home with a lot of intensity and even verbal mistreatment and heavy anger, you may not be aware that even though you're at a lower level than you experienced from your own father, your wife might still feel emotionally unsafe with you. I want you to evaluate whether or not she ever says you're too intense, edgy, critical, you verbally mistreat, or you give her the cold shoulder. All of these things decrease trust and emotional safety in a marriage, and it makes your partner less likely to want to be intimate with you.

The second one is lack of sexual integrity. This can be for either partner, but we see the struggle with men more often. There are two subtle layers to this that men might dismiss, not thinking it's a big deal. Do you ogle other women when you're with your wife but also when you're not with her? Are you overly friendly to other women? Those two things might seem surface-level, but they erode trust.

For the women's side of things, this could be true for the men as well, but it's more often for women: are you overly involved with your kids to the neglect of your husband? Do you have any untreated sexual trauma that makes you hesitant to engage with your spouse? Do you have a medical issue that makes physical intimacy painful or even impossible? Those can be treated.

Have either of you ever punished your spouse by withholding in this area? Is there just a general neglect? Ladies, we have to consider this because we may have a lower libido, and so it's not as important to us whether or not there's frequent engagement, but it's highly important to most men. Is there a lack of awareness of the importance of this, of how life-giving it is?

If you do have any of these obstacles, look into them, get treatment for them, and overcome them so you can have a full marriage. If you have this problem, avoid telling your spouse, "You should. You should be engaging with me in intimacy." Avoid saying, "The Bible says you should." But do ask, "What do I do that makes you feel unsafe or makes you want to withdraw from me?" That is the first step in rebuilding safety. Jim, any thoughts?

Dr. Jim Burns: That was one of the most incredible statements about marriage and intimacy that I have ever heard. I mean that. I do marriage conferences every month, and I think you just nailed it for so many people. The libido is different, and we have to be in touch with that, but I think safety is a key issue. Even at Homeward, when people ask us, they talk about safety even when they don't know they're talking about safety.

Brian Perez: If this resonates with you, give us a call.

Announcer: To find more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: If you missed New Life Live yesterday, you missed some great advice from Dr. Henry Cloud. It's easy to catch up on shows you missed. They're archived on our YouTube channel, on the newlife.com website, on our app, and available through your podcast provider. I trust you'll tune in on Friday as Dr. Cloud joins us again. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call us today here at New Life Live. In the studio for two hours with Doctors Alice Benton and Jim Burns. Alice started today's show with a great talk on marriage and physical intimacy in marriage. Jim, any more thoughts on that?

Dr. Jim Burns: Absolutely. In fact, I think what I love about her talking about this is it's a major issue. I look out at the audiences that I speak at on marriage, and I've just figured that about 50 percent aren't doing as well as they would like. 25 percent are like, "They don't need my talk on this," and another 25 percent are going, "Thank you." So I think it's key. It's critical for so many marriages.

Intimacy means connection. Physical intimacy means connection. It's possible to be in a physical relationship and not be connected, obviously, but the point is we have to be willing to talk to somebody about it. People like Alice, you can talk to therapists, and they've heard it all and they can help. Big time. What I like to say a lot of times is that men sometimes expect more, like you were talking about, Alice.

I say to men, you need to use the gift of touch. Touch the vacuum, touch the dishes, touch the bath with the kids, whatever it is. A woman, I feel, a lot of times needs to have her world at least in semi-order before she can really focus on that. You were talking about child-focused marriage sometimes, and that's really the case with those. Men can take the lead without being preachy or lecture-y, but honestly, caring and loving and getting them—I think a woman will respond to that in a great way.

Women, I think they need to initiate sometimes, too. They sometimes think that's dirty or wrong. It's not; it's biblical. I think if in the morning she says, "How about tonight after we put the kids to bed, we get some cuddle time together?" he's going to be thinking about that all day. A woman might not, but the man is. We have things we can do to enhance just practical things that we can do. When she was talking, she was also talking about the safety aspect of it, and I think that's so critical. A lot of people just don't have the physical intimacy they want because they're exhausted.

Somebody once said, "If the devil can't make you bad, he'll make you busy." But we realize now that in busyness, we don't have time for the beautiful intimacy, and it's a good experience for most of the people if they'll put their minds and hearts to it.

Dr. Alice Benton: As much as we're steeped in sexual content all around us, we're still incredibly bashful about how to talk about it with our spouse.

Dr. Jim Burns: We are. You brought up things like pornography or some of the negative things. If that's happening, then they're not willing to talk about even a healthy intimacy because they have so much shame or they're struggling with so many issues. That's where people need to get help. If you become healthy with what I like to call a theology of healthy sexuality—the study of God and theology, it's not some preachy weird stuff—if you have a healthy view of God creating sex and seeing it as good in the context of marriage, then honestly, you can have a great physical intimacy and you can have it for years and years and years.

The problem is that sometimes our parents never talked to us about it, so we don't have a good theology of healthy sexuality. Then we're not talking to our kids about it, we're not experiencing the beauty of God's creation, and even God's pleasure. God created pleasure, and it's a very pleasurable act if we do that in the right context. Go to work. Get some help.

Dr. Alice Benton: When we've been hurt chronically for too long, we tend to express the hurt through accusation. "You don't do this for me. You don't love me how you should." Whereas if we approach it with vulnerability—"I'm sad, I miss you, I'm lonely, I'm worried for our marriage. Could we please talk about this?"—then our spouse will be much more likely to be receptive to that tone.

Dr. Jim Burns: You're exactly right. On a personal level, Cathy and I have been married 51 years, so nothing is pretty much hidden. Over the years, we've had those kinds of conversations. Both she has and I have at different times in terms of, "Here's how I'm feeling, here's what my need is, here's why I'm hurt," or whatever. You know what? It always is a good conversation.

I don't want to have that conversation. I'm afraid she's going to get defensive or I'm going to get defensive. But once we have the conversation and it's done well, it really does improve the intimacy or the connection, physical and emotional. We also have to remember that emotional connection typically precedes good physical intimacy. That's a hard one. A lot of guys aren't in touch with their emotions, so they don't even know what we're talking about right now, but it's important.

Brian Perez: What do you say to the guy who says, "I don't have time to touch the vacuum or to touch the dirty dishes. I've been at work all day, I spent another two hours on the freeway, I just want to get home, get my dinner," et cetera?

Dr. Jim Burns: I say get it together here because, again, where are your priorities? Here on the air, I still feel a little bit guilty, Brian, but I called a guy a wimp. He was in Dallas, and I still remember this conversation. Every therapist would hate me, Alice, because I just said, "I think you're being a wimp when it comes to things." I think guys wimp out on that. Both of you have probably worked hard in different ways. They get home, and the old school way was the women would do 89 percent of the thing. Now it's still in the majority of work at home, but I think we need to help. When we do that, that's when we can expect better physical intimacy.

Dr. Alice Benton: If the working spouse outside the home thinks, "My first job is earning the paycheck," the priority's wrong. The first job is learning to love your family well. The secondary job is earning the paycheck.

Dr. Jim Burns: That's true. We are tired sometimes. Honestly, there are just times when we are exhausted from work or whatever it might be. In today's world, so many men and women, of course, most of our listeners, are working. Both are working. So why is one job more stressful than the other? Maybe not, even if one makes a higher living. Coming back home, we've got to make sure that the environment, the tone, the atmosphere—those are all things that are important to intimacy, both emotional and physical.

Brian Perez: Looks like we've got a phone call that's kind on topic. It's from Katie in Washington D.C., listening on WAVA. Welcome to New Life Live, Katie, and thank you for calling 1-800-229-3000.

Katie: Thank you. My pleasure. I'm so glad I got ahold of you. This really is a God moment for sure. My question is how do I like being with my husband again? It's gotten to a point where I don't want to be around him. I don't want him to touch me. He's not a bad man; he's actually an excellent provider, very responsible. Lately, it's just, I think, the lack of humility, like true humility of just saying, "I'm really sorry" to me or the kids. It's just been building up over 20-plus years. I do not want to be around him. I do not want him to touch me.

It all came to a head just a couple of days ago. He became very angry and he was yelling, "You know what the problem is!" It was loud and it was aggressive. That's the last thing I want to hear or experience if you want intimacy from me.

Dr. Alice Benton: And that's what he was referring to when he said that? "You know what the problem is"—it was lack of intimacy?

Katie: Right. And that's the main problem in our marriage. I mean, everything else is really quite functional. But I've never been big on that part of things. That's just kind of unfortunately who I've always been. A lot of childhood trauma, but I've worked through that for many, many years with Christian counseling, prayer, everything. But it just isn't there. I want to enjoy being around my husband, and I don't. I don't want to be near him.

Dr. Alice Benton: And are you saying that you haven't had any sexual drive or interest yourself? It's not appealing to you to engage on that level? And it never has been, but his anger makes it that much more difficult?

Katie: Exactly. For whatever reason, it just isn't there. It's a real strain on our marriage.

Dr. Alice Benton: He must be a tough man to try to engage in these kinds of conversations because he turns to anger pretty quickly and accusation. Would you describe how you've tried to point out that his intensity is such an obstacle for you?

Katie: Yes. In this most recent incident, I said, "When it is brought up in such intensity like it is right now, how do you expect me to be engaging with you? It always comes to this." He said, "But it always comes to this, too. You know, don't be so quiet all the time and then just explode." I don't see a lot of effort in a humble, gentle way on that side either. It's like, "Well, I do this for you, and I do that for you." But it doesn't seem sincere. There's just no real gentle sincerity.

Dr. Alice Benton: Has your husband ever been willing to engage in any structured help?

Katie: We have in the past. I can't say that it really seemed to help that much. I even brought that up in our recent conversation, like, "Can we just please find a counselor?" We've done it in the past, but it's hard to get the humility to say, "Wow, I really do get explosive. Wow, I really have put a lot of pressure on you." That is not there, and that's really hard for me to deal with.

Dr. Jim Burns: Katie, I want to take you all the way back to when you were courting before you got married, and then when you got married at the beginning. Was your physical intimacy alright back then, without all the pressure?

Katie: We actually saved it for marriage. It was very uncomfortable for me because at that point I had made that choice in my life to stop dating, to just take time for me, getting right with God. That was almost 10 years. So it was awkward, it was uncomfortable, because prior to that, I'd had a very sinful lifestyle in many relationships.

Dr. Jim Burns: A couple of things. You might have brought some baggage—I'm not saying he can't be as defensive as he is, and he needs to look at this as a "we." When you look at conflict, if you go toward defensiveness, it never works. "I'm right and you're wrong," and whatever. If somehow we can move this to a "we," where it's like, "What am I responsible for? What are you responsible for?" If he has a goal of wanting to get to more intimacy, then it's a "we." What can "we" do? What's my part, what's your part?

But I was thinking about the possibility that you could have brought some baggage into this because of your sexual trauma, because of maybe your lifestyle. What I'm wondering is, do we start back at dating? Is he willing to go on dates with you? Is he willing to go out to dinner?

Katie: Yes.

Dr. Jim Burns: What I'm wondering is, we find that a lot of times connection doesn't happen by saying, "You are not available for me" or "I'm angry at you." Connection comes when we have fun together. It's the dates, it's the romance. I just wonder if you couldn't rekindle the romance by going back and saying, in golf I think we say, "Let's have a do-over." Actually start dating and having some fun because fun brings togetherness.

There's deeper stuff to deal with obviously, but that may be a good start for you. Take the lead and, without giving it your best shot at trying to be fun and maybe even romantic there, be a little bit flirtatious. I think you'll see some different results on his part, too. I'm not saying it's just you; I started with you because of the early years of you, but I think you both have some work to do. That's why we need probably counseling.

Brian Perez: Katie, stay on the phone. We're going to continue our conversation with you. Susan, you're coming up as well.

Announcer: To find more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: We're back on New Life Live. Thanks for joining us. We're speaking with Katie in Washington D.C. You still with us, Katie?

Katie: Yes, I am.

Dr. Alice Benton: Katie, I want to praise you that you've continued to do your own work and that it sounds like you've turned your life around. To have so aligned with God's will and yet to struggle in this pain in your marriage, my heart is heavy for you because I could imagine how frightening those explosions are.

Katie: They are, because I just have a good marriage and this part is heartbreaking.

Dr. Alice Benton: I hear it in your voice, how much it means to you that this happens. So I want to make a couple of additional recommendations to what Jim said. You might tell him again, if you already have, "I know my sexual history has left me resistant to intimacy and that's been really hard on you, and I am willing to keep working on it." Katie, if you're not still in individual therapy, please get back into it. If you haven't done EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing, that's such a helpful treatment to get to some of the subconscious layers of what that lifestyle left on your heart and on your body.

But I would also have you tell him in a separate conversation, "In order for us to rebuild intimacy, it'll help if you, husband, will work on your intensity. May I have permission to point it out when things get heated? If we can't bring that temperature back down at the time, I think it will be best if we walk away from each other. I will walk away if we can't ratchet down the intensity." How do you think he'd respond to that?

Katie: That's a hard one. It could be defensive, which is the majority of what I get. It's hard to say.

Dr. Alice Benton: It's such a common reaction. When defensiveness rises up, I suggest saying, "Well, would you just think and pray about it?" and then back away from the conversation. Then you're leaving the responsibility on him and God because you can't do a whole lot about his defensiveness. Leave it be. Don't try to argue your way through it.

Then, Katie, a sex clinic—whether this is an intensive or just getting with a sexual therapist who's trained in this—might help. Your husband might be more motivated if he knows that's going to be the focus, but a well-trained therapist would go after the anger and the history, not just the sexual aspect of it. Our Intimacy in Marriage intensive really helps couples learn how to talk about this in a calm, productive way.

Brian Perez: I noticed you said "in a separate conversation" that she should, so not all at once?

Dr. Alice Benton: Separating them out helps people to tolerate them more. If we go after "This is my part, but you and your anger," he's going to be less likely to hear it. So if you start with one day "This is my part I'm going to work on," and another day "It will help me get closer to you if you'll also be willing to work on your intensity," you're more likely to succeed.

Dr. Jim Burns: You're so right. We have to not have it in the heat of the battle. When he's doing "you, you, you," what you both probably need to do is say, "Here's my part of the deal." But don't do it in the heat of the battle. As soon as it escalates, you'll actually train him—it sounds terrible that we're training our husbands, but I think my wife has done a good job of doing that with me—but you'll train him that intimacy and connection, emotional connection, doesn't happen when things are escalated.

He's criticizing you to correct behavior. That doesn't work. So what you want to do is try to find those moments. "Can we have a conversation?" And if his favorite beverage is whatever, put it in front of him and sit there and just say, "I'd like to have a 15-minute conversation without criticizing."

I know a couple that does this every day. They have a 15-minute beverage-to-beverage in the morning. They have their coffees and they kind of connect with each other, and sometimes it gets a little heated, but what it does is it's now a time where they go, "This is not the time to heat up." Well, sometimes they don't even have arguments now because they do that. They do it every day. That's amazing. But it's a marriage. So why not put that kind of energy into it?

I would suggest strongly that it's not in the heat of the battle. You want to make sure that you have maybe even separate conversations. We talk about sexuality when you're talking to kids about sex; we say a hundred one-minute conversations is a lot more effective than one one-hour one. We do this with couples too. Just have a short conversation but try even yourself not to criticize to correct the behavior, but rather, if you can, "Here's my story and here's how I feel." He's probably not a very good understanding person who understands his feelings. I know therapists who will sometimes say, "Here are 15 feelings," and the woman will go, "I feel this, this, this," and the guy goes, "This is a foreign language to me."

That may be your husband, Katie. So we're going to have to train him a little bit, but do it if you don't escalate and if you have some fun with it. You may be surprised that you can rekindle the relationship. I see this with the empty nest work that we do all the time, that people who are in the empty nest can rekindle, but they've put a lot of years into doing it not very healthy and they've buried stuff under the mat. So some of that has to come out. Anyway, I think Alice gave you some great input.

Brian Perez: There's a resource in the newlife.com store called Created for Connection that you might want to pick up. We've also got the Intimacy in Marriage intensive. That's happening Valentine's Day weekend in Orange County, California. Still time to sign up for the early bird discount. You can get the details at newlife.com.

Dr. Alice Benton: And we have the kind of clinicians I recommended in our counselor network, so we can connect you with them.

Brian Perez: Katie, I know what D.C.'s weather is going to be like next week around Valentine's Day. Come out to California and get some sunshine.

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Brian Perez: We're back on New Life Live. Thanks for joining us. If you're feeling stuck in addiction, grief, anxiety, or broken relationships, you're not alone. Connecting with a life recovery group allows you to discover practical tools and biblical truth from the 12 steps of life recovery designed to help you heal, grow, and thrive. Recovery isn't just about what you're giving up; it's about who you're becoming and knowing that your past does not have to define you. Visit newlife.com to learn more about our Christian recovery groups.

If you've got a question for Dr. Alice Benton or Dr. Jim Burns, give us a call in the studio. We're going to be here for the next half hour and the next hour at 1-800-229-3000. Here is Susan in St. Louis, Missouri, listening on newlife.com. Welcome, Susan, to the program.

Susan: Hello. In short, I was married 20 years to a man. We had not had intimacy before marriage. I think it was the day after we got married when I approached him, he said, "You make me feel like I have to perform." Then after 20 years of marriage, and we did have five children, but he did not initiate, and I felt like I could change things. After 20 years of marriage, he said very quietly, sitting in the dark, "I never really wanted you that way."

In the meantime, I did develop a bit of bitterness in the last few years of our marriage. There was a lot of fighting, and it became, I felt, dangerous. So we divorced. This was around 2000. My question is, why would someone get married to someone they have no attraction that way for? And number two, why could I not convince him to love me after so many attempts?

Dr. Jim Burns: I have a question, Susan. What was he like before or even early on? Did he have previous relationships? Was he into pornography? Was there anything like that?

Susan: About the middle of our relationship, he told me originally that he would take care of it, it wasn't my problem, it was his, early on when I asked him to go to counseling. Then at 10 years married, which was halfway through, he did admit pornography, which crushed me because I already wondered what was wrong with me.

Dr. Jim Burns: I don't think it's what's wrong with you. I think it was what was wrong with him. When a person, your husband, is involved in something like a porn addiction or any kind of sex addiction, it rapidly is not about you. A lot of times in your kind of situation, the wife will say, "Well, if I was more flirtatious, or if I'd wear different types of clothes, or if I'd do this or that." I don't think so. I think he had a problem that he had not dealt with. So you can't look at you as being the problem; it was possibly him being the problem. We see this every day.

Dr. Alice Benton: I would agree with that. There were complicated things going on inside of your husband. A couple of guesses that came to me were, one, that he was lying about some of this and exaggerating that he never, never had sexual attraction towards you. That's very difficult for me to believe. I also wonder what he was projecting onto you. We sometimes accuse other people of the very thing we're struggling with. It can be done subconsciously; we're not aware of it. It can be done in order to protect the thing that we're hiding.

So if he was controlling and critical and actually made you feel like you had to perform, he might have accused you of what he was doing. He might have had sexual trauma that really warped his ability to know what he wanted and talk about it. With the addition of pornography, which absolutely warps sex drive and sexual health, I wonder about substance abuse as well. Because that changes a person's personality and it puts them in this position of saying extreme things and very mean things. People who use are more likely to do that. Do you suspect he used alcohol or any drugs excessively?

Susan: I do not suspect substance abuse. After the divorce, he started drinking a little bit and it was quite shocking because he was not prone to substances. I grew up with that, so my radar on that issue is very sensitive.

Dr. Jim Burns: Susan, I have another question, too. The five kids—how was he toward the kids when it came to loving or intimacy? How would you rate him as a dad?

Susan: A very connected father. He loved having a family, which has always been my strongest inclination, that he just wanted a family. After the divorce, he did remarry, which I still don't think that that's an intimate relationship; I think it was an agreement. But of course, he became more disconnected with his children. But he's still a good father considering, which is what I was looking for when I looked for a marriage partner. I wanted someone who would be a good father. So even with a remarriage, his children love him and he loves his children.

Dr. Jim Burns: You sound like you take a lot of the blame. Those words were so hurtful. Do you blame yourself for some of the lack of intimacy on his part?

Susan: I just thought I could change it. I thought I could save my family. I thought I could make him love me. I guess it was my lesson that I tell my daughter—my boys are all married, there's four boys, and I tell my daughter, "Well, you can't make somebody love you."

Dr. Jim Burns: Right. People try, and when our spouse is hiding things or when our spouse is struggling with some pretty deep issues—I have a feeling that he might have been struggling with deeper issues—we think all these things. "If only I would have been kinder, if only I would have dressed differently, if only I would have been more romantic."

Susan: I went through lists of that. I became a perfectionist trying to be pleasing.

Dr. Jim Burns: Right, but that's not helpful for anybody. Have you dated since your divorce?

Susan: I did at first, I think mainly because after 20 years of marriage, that's the framework. I could have married several times, and a couple of the men were very godly, like deacons or elders of the church. I just never could—I didn't want to break someone's heart or have mine—I just couldn't trust again. Because I trusted and I gave so much to that marriage, I think I just could never do it again.

Dr. Jim Burns: Have you gotten therapy through this? Have you talked with a therapist?

Susan: We got therapy. We did Minirth-Meier and we did Imago, which was very helpful. I read so many books trying to save the marriage. They would have touched the ceiling. I really worked so hard at it. I know the one you have that's called Intimate Deception or maybe The Way We Love would probably be helpful, I'm sure, because I listen to your program.

Dr. Jim Burns: Part of it is making sure that you're okay now. I would say that it might be really beneficial to talk through this with somebody because before freedom comes, you have to go through some pain. I think there's some work you've got to do to get to the freedom so that you can have a good remaining life. You've got these kids, five of them, and they need you. They need the healthy side of Susan. Sometimes to do that, we've got to get the help we need.

Brian Perez: A couple of other resources in the newlife.com store are the Trust book that will help you in your future relationships. Also, Take Your Life Back. We have a Take Your Life Back course coming up starting next week. It's 12 weeks. It will help you break free from the regret, unhealthy relationships, and destructive habits that keep you stuck. You can find out more about that at newlife.com. We'll be back on New Life Live.

Announcer: To find more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: When you give to New Life, your generosity helps restore broken marriages and families. Your gift helps people break free from addiction, find strength in the midst of depression and grief, and grow deeper in faith and spiritual health. You can give online at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. You can also text NLM for New Life Ministries to 28950. Thank you so much for whatever you can do. We're going to be in the studio for another hour, so give us a call here at 1-800-229-3000 with Dr. Jim Burns and Dr. Alice Benton, who wanted to add a little something.

Dr. Alice Benton: Susan, whenever we're accused by a spouse, even if it's 99 percent untrue and has more to do with his struggle, it is always worth looking at. "Did I have a part in the deterioration of the marriage? Was I needy, critical? Did I expect too much of him?" I didn't hear that in your voice, but I want you to look into it because the "why" is weighing on you. You might ask three people you love who will also tell you truth: "What are things that I do that make it difficult to be in close relationship with me?"

But then I want you to work on releasing the "why," especially his part of it, unless you can have a decent friendly conversation with him. If you focus on trying to forgive yourself, him, and his parents and the role that they may have played in his inability to connect with you, I think that will eventually free you from the weight of the "why."

Brian Perez: Let's go to Rochester, New York. Jamaica is listening on newlife.com. Welcome to the program. What's your question for us today?

Jamaica: Yes, my question is my family in 2020 just started acting super strange. They all just kind of seem like they have been Jim Jonesed, if you will. I reached out for help. I've had tons of negativity happen like a domino effect. Can't get a job, reached out everywhere, reached out to church, reached out, you name it, I reached out. Went to the FBI, reported everything, went through a divorce, reported all this activity. I got nothing more than a slap on the wrist saying, "Oh, it's okay this happens."

So it's as if someone decided to take my life and make it out of some kind of stage play or something. To this day, it's like it's got me going around in circles. I'm a praying woman anyway, I know how to pray for myself, I get results, I'm success-driven, I'm God-fearing, I pray and I know how to represent myself in life. Even though I may be sad at times, I know how to go ahead and pray and it brings me from zero to 100.

But I have reached out for help forever. Do you have any answers for me? I feel like my family's in some kind of wicked organization and even the police themselves can't do anything because they are aware because I brought it to their attention and they make me look like I'm the person that needs rest and needs help. They try to make it turn around to make me look like I'm the person that's not able to cope with what's going on when that is not the case. I've been praying for my family to be well and all of them have pretty much ostracized me. I felt like it was my ex who went to rehab who did all these crazy things. Sometimes I think if you hook up with the wrong person, then they can put you in a Jim Jones situation and I think I've been the innocent bystander.

Dr. Alice Benton: This sounds like a very confusing whirlwind that your life has been in for the past several years. If your ex-husband was in rehab, then I imagine he struggled with substance use, which can bring such chaos into a life and leave you wondering what's real and what's not real. It concerned you so much, whatever was happening in your life, that you made reports to the FBI. Jamaica, can you give me just one example? What was one of the worst things that you wanted the FBI to know about?

Jamaica: Basically, they broke into my storage unit and my family was basically seeming like they're not able to talk with me. They seem very guarded, like if they talked to me they had limited time. It makes me feel like somebody was watching or monitoring their actions. I'm a registered nurse, so I know these things. I pay very close attention to detail and if I have to go out of my way to report something, it's serious.

Dr. Alice Benton: Jamaica, to see if I'm understanding, you were reporting that people were monitoring your family. Is that right?

Jamaica: No, I was reporting that I have had all of these violations and not necessarily anything that's non-transparent. Everything I'm reporting was physically and tangibly able to prove. Like the break-in to my storage unit, for instance. And then my family walked away, if you will. His mother died, dad died, then they walked away from me and left me in the house. We sold the house. We went through a lot of different things and all of my reaching out for help was more gaslight. It's like I looked at the county records and it said that he was married, he had businesses everywhere. I mean, I have printouts that I sent to my friend. I'm like, "Hey, what is this?"

Dr. Alice Benton: I'm going to interrupt with a couple of questions because we're running down on time. You said you also really struggle to get work. Right now, is your life stable? Are you employed? Do you have a home?

Jamaica: Very unstable. I had to go and spend $15,000 on an RV. Very unstable. I can't buy a home because I can't seem to get approved for one. I had $100,000, couldn't buy a new house. I am not kidding you when I say this. We sold our house and I should have been able to do all the normal things.

Dr. Alice Benton: Life is pretty unstable right now. So Jamaica, I know things have been going wrong in your life and that people have not believed you. That makes it so difficult to know what is my true reality. Is everybody else off-base? Because it certainly feels like it. There can be things like Jim Jones situations.

I want you to keep alerting the correct authorities because sometimes it takes multiple times to get someone to believe you and to act on it. But I also am going to gently challenge you. You may have to check your ability to perceive reality because sometimes our legitimate fears can expand in our mind beyond what is happening, even though I believe you that there was a storage unit break-in.

If you would also have the humility to talk with your doctor and get a psychiatric evaluation to see if depression, anxiety, trauma, any of that might be clouding your judgment. We want to eliminate that as a possibility. It will also someday help to reunite potentially with your family if you're able to say, "Hey, I got myself checked out, I'm willing to be in treatment if I need that as well, if I'm off-base here." So it's those two things: continue to alert authorities because I don't want your family to be under attack, but check your own mental health status so that you can eliminate that being something that could be part of what's gone wrong.

Dr. Jim Burns: You want an advocate who can help you. You haven't found that advocate yet, but somebody who can kind of help you through that. I have questions and we don't have time in terms of why did you choose FBI instead of the police for some of these. But I think Alice is right. The first step with any time is to make sure that you get a checkup. We need physical checkups, we need mental checkups. We all do, and we all do that. Even the therapists who are on this show would at times go get some counseling.

I would do exactly what she said and then make sure that there's people in your world who know you and see you and feel what you're feeling. You're going to find that at church, but I would go to the psychologist, get the psychiatric help. Also, Jim Jones, by the way, for our listeners, Jim Jones is a cult leader. You used Jim Jones and that's a religious cult. Are these people all a part of something like that or are they just in your mind out to get you? Those are questions you're going to have to answer.

Brian Perez: We're out of time on this hour of New Life Live, but we're going to remain in the studio for another hour, so you still have time to call in and ask your questions. Jamaica, thanks for calling us, and we would recommend the Take Your Life Back book or course from newlife.com.

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