New Life LIVE

Narrator: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: There's no way you already broke your New Year's resolutions, but even if you did, guess what? God's mercies are new every morning. Welcome to the second New Life Live of 2026. Brian Perez here sharing studio space with Dr. Jackie MacHarris. A licensed marriage and family therapist is what she is. Becky Brown's here, too. She's a licensed professional clinical counselor and the president of New Life Ministries. Becky, you've been on almost every day this week. Glad to have you back.

Becky Brown: It's amazing. Glad to be here.

Brian Perez: And Jackie was here New Year's Eve. What words of wisdom did you bring to share with our viewers and listeners today, Jackie?

Jackie MacHarris: Well, I have a scripture I'm coming out of 1 Corinthians 11 and starting at about 17. It's about the order of the Lord's Supper, and this is where Paul is talking about how we behave in the church. This section of scriptures has just been speaking to me over the past weeks.

"But in the following instructions, I cannot praise you." So he starts with "but" because he's praising them in the previous scriptures. "For it sounds as if more harm than good is done when you meet together. For I hear that there are divisions among you when you meet as a church, and to some extent, I believe it. But of course, there must be divisions among you so that you who have God's approval will be recognized."

It goes on to talk about how we are rushing to the table, we're not really thinking about God, we're thinking about ourselves, we're thinking about each other. I mentioned there was a call on New Year's Eve and it came up around communion service, around the Lord's Supper, and I mentioned, and Becky Brown mentioned, being present and being in that moment and being connected with Jesus is really the purpose.

But here in this scripture, I see Paul admonishing the church for the divisions and how they use the Lord's Supper, which I'm seeing as legalism. They use these rules, this tradition, this thing that has to happen to really show who's better than the other.

And then he says, "For some of you hurry to eat your own meal without sharing with others. As a result, some go hungry while others get drunk. What? Don't you have your own homes for eating and drinking? Or do you really want to disgrace God's church and shame the poor?"

We are living in a time where I think as Christians, we get caught up on how people behave and forget to look in the mirror. We are wanting to feel certain things and so we demand certain behaviors of other people without thinking about the consequences of our choices and demands on others.

So you've got poor people going without, meanwhile you're like, "Give me mine!" Paul is speaking against that because we are to come to the Lord's Supper in remembrance of him. That says, what did Jesus do? He came to save, he came to heal, he came to set free by grace are we saved through faith and not of anything we've ever done. It's not of any work we've done.

I just want to remind our listeners that the divisions among us in churches isn't of God, and none of us are better than the other for how we worship or how we believe. If you've accepted Christ, you love Jesus. That's it, that's all. We've got to put our hands around each other and stop pushing each other away.

Becky Brown: It just reminds me of my favorite quote by Ice Cube or Ice-T: "Check yourself before you wreck yourself."

Brian Perez: Paul said it. Paul said it.

Becky Brown: Check your heart. Check it. That's basically what he's saying here.

Brian Perez: And once again, that was 1 Corinthians 11:17 through 22. All right, you guys, you can read up on that a little later. Right now, we're going to go to the phones. Monica in Pennsylvania, you'll be up first when we come back from the break here on New Life Live.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

And to Hazleton, Pennsylvania we go. Here is Monica listening on WRGN. Hey Monica, Happy New Year.

Monica: Same to you. I love New Life. I've listened for so long and I try and pass knowledge onto other people. My question today is, I'm married and divorced from a rageaholic narcissist. One child, he's in his middle 40s. I would like to tell him things that his father did to me, which was abuse, that he didn't see and help him understand. The father lied, said I wanted the divorce and I did not. It's just a hurt inside of me to where I feel that I have that right to help him understand.

Jackie MacHarris: Monica, what would it do for you to help him understand?

Monica: Well, I just think that he believed whatever his father told him and he did say to me, "Well, you wanted the divorce," and I said, "No, that's not true."

Jackie MacHarris: I think in those moments, that's appropriate. If he's saying you wanted a divorce, I would absolutely say, "No, I didn't ask for a divorce." But what I'm hearing is you want to tell him the stories of how you all got to divorce, stories that he didn't witness. I wonder if in an effort to make yourself feel better, you're going to harm him.

Brian Perez: Is your son still in contact with your ex-husband, his father?

Monica: Yes, his father isn't well. Monica, how long ago did the divorce occur? It's been a long time now. Over 20 years.

Becky Brown: Okay, so here's the reason why I'm asking that. This is today. What I'm hearing more than trying to get your son to understand the past is your need, and it's totally understandable, to connect with your son as an adult. Not as, "I need to rationalize what happened, I need to explain to him," because if he's not saying, "Mom, help me understand," anything that you present is going to drive a wedge between the two of you.

He's convinced of what he thinks he knows. That can be very frustrating for you, and you want to be able to tell the truth, and I get that. What I want instead for you, Monica, is I want for you to find ways to connect with him that are not about the topic of your marriage to his father. This is going to bring you closer and it's going to allow for an opportunity if there is an opportunity where he says, "Mom, tell me what life was like married to Dad."

That may never happen, but if your goal is to tell your side of the story, your relationship with him is not going to be mutual and it's not going to be accepted. I want you to lean into getting curious about your son, getting to know him and understanding him and connecting with him and letting the past be the past. I'm grateful that you still have some connection with him, but I don't want you to live the rest of your life defending something that he's not even asking about.

Jackie MacHarris: And I wonder how that conversation came up that he would say, "Well, you wanted the divorce." Have you and your son been having conversations about the way life is going? What brought that statement out?

Monica: First of all, he lives two hours away from me, so I only get to go down occasionally. But we were in the car, this has been a while ago, and I didn't answer him. He just kind of caught me off guard.

Jackie MacHarris: Before he made the statement, I know you didn't answer him, but before he made the statement, were you maybe lamenting loneliness? Were you lamenting not having him around very often?

Monica: No, I try and stay in the present when I'm with him. But could I say to him, if I get the chance, say to him, "Would you like to hear anything about your parents' marriage?" Could I ask him that and then if he says yes?

Jackie MacHarris: My question is, why? He's not asking for that information. You're wanting to make yourself feel better by giving him information that's going to bring him down about things that happened more than 20 years ago. Have you worked through the divorce and the pain of the end of your marriage with a counselor?

Monica: No, not really. I mean, I went to some, but I guess that's just something that I just don't bring up because as I'm aging, it just becomes more painful for me.

Jackie MacHarris: That's okay that it becomes more painful. That's a part of the process. Think about that. You said it becomes more painful. That's why I don't think about it. Imagine what that pain will be like that you're giving to your son. I think sometimes we want to share our story and share our pain to offload some of it.

But we have to think about what that then means for the other person. If it is painful for me, I'm not going to give that pain to someone else simply to soothe and comfort my pain unless they are asking to partner and to join me and to come alongside me. If they're coming up to me and saying, "Hey Mom, I see you're struggling and I wonder if this has to do with your marriage, do you want to talk about it?" Let that be an invitation because they're saying, "Okay, I'm here and I'm open for that."

Otherwise, we are kind of violating them with our histories that they don't ever have to know, live, and have stories of in their minds. So all that you carry around, you want him to have that same information so that he can have the same view of his dad. It won't change his view of his dad because his dad is his dad, not his ex-husband. Your view of his dad is going to be what it is because you were married to him. It's a different relationship.

Becky Brown: Right. You know what I was thinking of, Jackie, is Monica, I want you to attend our course, "Healing is a Choice." Everything that Jackie's talking about is doing your inner work, doing your own healing in this chapter of your life. This is where it's going to be so valuable for you to finish strong.

For those of us who are a little bit up in years, we look back at things that maybe we didn't get quite right or we really want to have those connections. I hear that in your voice. I hear that need, that desire, and I honor that in you. Monica, you can join our online course and you can explore and have the support that you need so that if the day comes that your son wants to understand the past, you are going to be in a healthy space to be able to share that with him.

Jackie MacHarris: And keep in mind that if he ever does want to understand your past, it's going to be because of a need he has for himself. The need that you have to be heard and known and have your story known and be understood, I think would be better supported with a good Christian counselor. You said you haven't really done that. You did a few things, but you haven't done that work.

I think that that could be really valuable for you and I think it would improve you and your son's relationship because you wouldn't be thinking about the ex-husband of more than 26 years. You'd be thinking about that time with your son and yourself in the present and how you're moving forward with your life and how wonderful that is.

Brian Perez: Because that would help Monica with getting things off her chest, but not necessarily putting it on her son.

Jackie MacHarris: Exactly. You then burden him with negativity about his parent. I wonder if you ever think about what the dad says about you? We teach parents not to do that to their children. Their children need to be able to form their own relationships with their parents. Now, if the dad is abusive to him, he needs to see that and do some work and make some changes. But if he and dad have a great relationship and you and dad didn't, I wouldn't want to ruin his relationship with dad because me and dad didn't have a great relationship, because I need him to see me differently. He can see me differently when I get my healing and I'm not behaving in the way that makes him say those kinds of things.

Monica: But I don't think he had the best relationship with his father. I think when he was growing up, the father didn't help him to go off like I wanted.

Jackie MacHarris: He mentioned "had," like when he was a child or now?

Monica: I think when he was growing up, the father didn't help him to go off like I wanted.

Jackie MacHarris: How is he now? Is he in relationship with his dad now?

Monica: Well, the father is over an hour away, but the father doesn't go to his home. The wife, the son has a problem with the wife. So there are some issues there.

Jackie MacHarris: But those are things that you are judging as not good. Your son has his own relationship with his father and you mentioned, "his father wasn't good and I would have wanted." Again, it's coming back to what you wanted and what you needed and what you think and what you see. You want to influence how your son feels and thinks about his father.

I would say it would be healthier for you to do work to figure out how you feel about life and what you want to do going forward, because it sounds like a whole lot of wasted energy burned up thinking about your ex-husband of more than 26 years and the ways in which he's not living life in the way you approve of. That sounds like such a heavy, unnecessary burden to be bearing.

Brian Perez: So, Monica, the "Healing is a Choice" course begins January 29th. You can find out more about it at newlife.com. It's 12 weeks, once a week, and you can find out the details also by calling us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. If you stay on hold, we'll get you the information as well. Thank you for calling us today here at New Life Live.

Now we're going to go to Los Angeles. Here is Jennifer who listens to New Life Live on a podcast. Hi there, Jennifer. Thanks for calling in today.

Jennifer: Hello. Thanks for taking my call. I was listening to the show, I think it was yesterday's show, where there are a couple of women that were at a point where they were wanting to leave their marriage, and it really resonated with me because that's where I've been for the last few months. I've been with my husband eight years, married for almost five.

This is the third marriage for each of us. Between my second and third, there was a 10-year period where I didn't date or anything, I didn't have any relationship. I focused on my kids, who are adults. We both have children from previous marriages. The reason I'm at this point is that over the years, whenever my husband and I would get into an argument, it would explode to the point that he says, "I'm leaving. I'm leaving."

It would just send me in a panic and I would chase him down and say, "Let's work it out, let's talk about it, let's do this." Then for the past maybe year or two, I'm at the point where I said, "I don't care. Let's split up, let's, I don't care, doesn't matter." It's more intense in the last few months.

Jackie MacHarris: Jennifer, you said when you guys have an argument, he says, "I'm leaving." When he says, "I'm leaving," you feel abandoned. Is it always that he's saying, "I'm leaving this marriage," or is he leaving the house, leaving this conversation? I want you to think about that for a moment and then we'll talk more about it after the break.

Brian Perez: Yeah, thanks for calling in today, Jennifer. We have been getting a lot of calls lately about that and we also discussed how I think it was the first Monday of January is known as "Divorce Day" or something because that's when couples come in and talk to attorneys and they just wanted to get through the holidays. So it's on everybody's mind, but we can help you with that. We have workshops, we have resources in our website, our store in our website, newlife.com. So Jennifer, thank you so much for calling in today before making that drastic decision, that decision that you probably don't want to make or maybe you need to. We'll talk when we come back.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Hey, podcast listener Jennifer, are you still there?

Jennifer: I am.

Jackie MacHarris: Awesome. Okay, so we asked you a question right before the break. I was asking if he said, "I want a divorce, I'm out of here," in those arguments. Let me tell you why I asked. As humans, it takes us 20 to 40 minutes to get back to baseline when we get into heated conflict. So if we are in battle, one of us probably is feeling flooded and needs to get out because we feel like a caged tiger, like we are under threat, we're in danger.

A lot of us that feel that way, we know that if we do not get out, we're going to lash out and it is going to hurt the person we love and you can't take it back. The other person hears, "I can't do this. I am out of here." And they hear, "I don't love you, I want a divorce, you're too much, I'm out of here." So that person then starts pulling and pursuing, "No, you can't leave. If you care about this relationship, we need to talk it out."

All that is doing is keeping both of you heightened and you can't regulate yourself or coregulate. So that time out is absolutely necessary, but some of us can't tolerate it. So what I tell people is, during that 20 minutes, whoever needs the time out says, "I need a time out, I need 20 minutes." You are leaving your partner feeling abandoned during that time.

So at the end of 20 minutes, you come back and you say, "Okay, all right, now let's talk about it." Or you come back and say, "Hey, I'm still not ready to talk about it, but I just needed to come back and tap in with you." Because the other person is feeling abandoned, but the one who is feeling abandoned needs to deal with that on their own for that time while they're on time out, because that's a "them" issue and they're hurting their partner. Their partner has felt attacked and threatened and harmed in that discussion. That is why they're trying to get away.

So that's what was coming up for me when you were saying it. I also was curious, during the 10 years that you didn't date, did you do therapy?

Jennifer: Intense. Intense therapy because my second marriage was very abusive. He was very drug addicted. So it's like my thought was, if this is what I'm attracting, I need to fix me before I get into another relationship. So I was, yes, intensely working on me.

Jackie MacHarris: Have you ever read the book "How We Love" by Kay and Milan Yerkovich?

Jennifer: I have.

Jackie MacHarris: And I did cut into what you were saying because that part just jumped out at me. So tell us what's the question?

Jennifer: So I'm at a crossroad. I think it's time to end the relationship because it's been so much of this. A minor conflict ends up being a huge, huge argument to the point that he says, "I'm leaving the marriage, we're just not meant to be together." I'm like, couples argue. It's okay to argue. Why does it have to get to this point? "No, it doesn't matter, I already made my decision."

And then I said, "Okay," and before I would chase and then we'd come back and we'd be like nothing. Well, lately, the last few years, I'm like, "You know, I can't do this anymore. It's breaking my heart. I'm not going to pursue." And so now he feels that I'm checked out. He's pursuing and I'm like, "I'm done. I'm already checked out."

Becky Brown: Jennifer, when you got married to him, having a third marriage probably weighed on you, like, "Okay, do I really want to do this again?" What was the deciding factor with your husband now that you said, "You know what, let's do this, let's get married"?

Jennifer: Because I think he was a good man. When I compared him to my previous husband, he was a good man, stable, whatever, and I'm like, "Okay, this is just marriage, right?" So I said, "Okay," even though that was a red flag, I thought that because he was a good person...

Jackie MacHarris: What was a red flag?

Jennifer: The red flag was that, that the way he would handle conflict.

Becky Brown: Right. But you're comparing him to your drug-addicted, abusive previous spouse, right? To say that this is a good person versus my ex-husband was not a good person.

Brian Perez: So the sky's the limit.

Jackie MacHarris: Right, because your ex-husband, the bar was on the ground. So when you say comparatively he's a good person, I think what Becky is saying is, yeah, well, he didn't have heart to try. So when you said he was a good person, he didn't have to do much.

Brian Perez: Maybe he was a better person.

Jackie MacHarris: Right, he was a better person. So there was a judgment based on a comparison to someone who was drug addicted.

Becky Brown: Right. And so here you are now, Jennifer, with this big decision. What I would encourage you to do, have the two of you done therapy?

Jennifer: Yeah, with church, but not really super in-depth because it's like he doesn't want to try to go to therapy.

Becky Brown: Yeah, because it's frustrating. It's so frustrating and it can feel so defeating, especially because you both have been married multiple times. And so here's the challenge. It's not necessarily this is a deal breaker. This is just, we don't know how to do relationships well. We don't know how to do it well for ourselves. We don't know how to connect with each other, to get what we need from each other.

Hurt happens in relationships, but healing happens in relationships. And so I want to invite you and your husband, before you make this decision, to join us at our "Intimacy in Marriage Intensive," which is going to be February. It's Valentine's weekend in Orange County. You can join us there and we can help you understand what the conflict is all about because you guys have a history now, not just with each other, but two other spouses, and you've got to have a roadmap for the future. Whether it is with this husband or maybe no husband in the future, I don't know.

But I just think, Jennifer, you owe it to yourself, your husband owes it to himself, to see what is the problem. Not maybe with just the two of us together, it could be something in our past so that we can have a great future going forward.

Brian Perez: Yeah, we've heard miraculous stories of couples who attend the "Intimacy in Marriage Intensive" on the brink of divorce and they just say, "No, we're going to give it another go." And then years later, they're still together. So find out more about that at newlife.com. Jennifer, thank you so much for calling in today.

And keep in mind that if he ever does want to understand your past, it's going to be because of a need he has for himself. The need that you have to be heard and known and have your story known and be understood, I think would be better supported with a good Christian counselor. You said you haven't really done that, you did a few things, but you haven't done that work. And I think that that could be really valuable for you and I think it would improve you and your son's relationship because you wouldn't be thinking about the ex-husband of more than 26 years. You'd be thinking about that time with your son and yourself in the present and how you're moving forward with your life and how wonderful that is.

Brian Perez: Because that would help Monica with getting things off her chest, but not necessarily putting it on her son.

Jackie MacHarris: Exactly. You then burden him with negativity about his parent. And I wonder how if you ever think about what the dad says about me? And so we teach parents not to do that to their children. Their children need to be able to form their own relationships with their parent. Now, if the dad is abusive to him, he needs to see that and do some work and make some changes. But if he and dad have a great relationship and you and dad didn't, I wouldn't want to ruin his relationship with dad because me and dad didn't have a great relationship.

Because I need him to see me differently. He can see me differently when I get my healing and I'm not behaving in the way that makes him say those kinds of things.

Monica: But I don't think he had the best relationship with his father.

Jackie MacHarris: You said "had," like when he was a child or now?

Monica: I think when he was growing up, the father didn't help him to go off like I wanted.

Jackie MacHarris: How is he now? Is he in relationship with his dad now?

Monica: Well, the father is over an hour away. But the father doesn't go to his home. The wife, the son has a problem with the wife. So there are some issues there.

Jackie MacHarris: But those are things that you are judging as not good. Your son has his own relationship with his father and you mentioned his father wasn't good and I would have wanted. Again, it's coming back to what you wanted and what you needed and what you think and what you see. You want to influence how your son feels and thinks about his father.

And I would say it would be healthier for you to do work to figure out how you feel about life and what you want to do going forward, because it sounds like a whole lot of wasted energy burned up thinking about your ex-husband of more than 26 years and the ways in which he's not living life in the way you approve of. That sounds like such a heavy, unnecessary burden to be bearing.

Brian Perez: So, Monica, the "Healing is a Choice" course begins January 29th. You can find out more about it at newlife.com. It's 12 weeks, once a week, and you can find out the details also by calling us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE if you stay on hold, we'll get you the information as well. Thank you for calling us today here at New Life Live. Now we're going to go to Los Angeles. Here is Jennifer who listens to New Life Live on a podcast. Hi there, Jennifer. Thanks for calling in today.

Jennifer: Hello. Thanks for taking my call.

Brian Perez: Yeah, what's going on?

Jennifer: Well, I was listening to the show, I think it was yesterday's show, where there are a couple of women that were at a point where they were wanting to leave their marriage, and it really resonated with me because that's where I've been for the last few months. I've been with my husband eight years, married for almost five.

This is the third marriage for each of us. Between my second and third, there was a 10-year period where I didn't date or anything. I didn't have any relationship. I focused on my kids, who are adults. We both have children from previous marriages. The reason I'm at this point is that over the years, whenever my husband and I would get into an argument, it would explode to the point that he says, "I'm leaving. I'm leaving." And it would just send me in a panic and I would chase him down and say, "Let's work it out, let's talk about it, let's do this."

And then for the past maybe year or two, I'm at the point where I said, "I don't care. Let's split up, let's, I don't care, doesn't matter." And it's more intense in the last few months.

Jackie MacHarris: Jennifer, you said when you guys have an argument, he says, "I'm leaving." When he says, "I'm leaving," you feel abandoned. Is it always that he's saying, "I'm leaving this marriage," or is he leaving the house, leaving this conversation? I want you to think about that for a moment and then we'll talk more about it after the break.

Brian Perez: Yeah, thanks for calling in today, Jennifer. And we have been getting a lot of calls lately about that and we also discussed how I think it was the first Monday of January is known as "Divorce Day" or something because that's when couples come in and talk to attorneys and they just wanted to get through the holidays. So it's on everybody's mind, but we can help you with that. We have workshops, we have resources in our website, our store in our website, newlife.com. So Jennifer, thank you so much for calling in today before making that drastic decision, that decision that you probably don't want to make or maybe you need to. We'll talk when we come back.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Hey, podcast listener Jennifer, are you still there?

Jennifer: I am.

Brian Perez: Awesome. Okay, so we asked you a question right before the break.

Jackie MacHarris: I was asking if he said, "I want a divorce, I'm out of here," in those arguments. Let me tell you why I asked. As humans, it takes us 20 to 40 minutes to get back to baseline when we get into heated conflict. So if we are in battle, one of us probably is feeling flooded and needs to get out because we feel like a caged tiger, like we are under threat, we're in danger.

And a lot of us that feel that way, we know that if we do not get out, we're going to lash out and it is going to hurt the person we love and you can't take it back. The other person hears, "I can't do this. I am out of here." And they hear, "I don't love you, I want a divorce, you're too much, I'm out of here." So that person then starts pulling and pursuing, "No, you can't leave. If you care about this relationship, we need to talk it out."

And all that is doing is keeping both of you heightened and you can't regulate yourself or coregulate. So that time out is absolutely necessary, but some of us can't tolerate it. So what I tell people is, during that 20 minutes, whoever needs the time out says, "I need a time out, I need 20 minutes." You are leaving your partner feeling abandoned during that time.

So at the end of 20 minutes, you come back and you say, "Okay, all right, now let's talk about it." Or you come back and say, "Hey, I'm still not ready to talk about it, but I just needed to come back and tap in with you." Because the other person is feeling abandoned, but the one who is feeling abandoned needs to deal with that on their own for that time while they're on time out, because that's a "them" issue and they're hurting their partner. Their partner has felt attacked and threatened and harmed in that discussion. That is why they're trying to get away.

So that's what was coming up for me when you were saying it. I also was curious, during the 10 years that you didn't date, did you do therapy?

Jennifer: Intense. Intense therapy because my second marriage was very abusive. He was very drug addicted. And so it's like my thought was, if this is what I'm attracting, I need to fix me before I get into another relationship. So I was, yes, intensely working on me.

Jackie MacHarris: Have you ever read the book "How We Love" by Kay and Milan Yerkovich?

Jennifer: No, I haven't.

Jackie MacHarris: And I did cut into what you were saying because that part just jumped out at me. So tell us what's the question?

Jennifer: So I'm at a crossroad. I think it's time to end the relationship because it's been so much of this. A minor conflict ends up being a huge, huge argument to the point that he says, "I'm leaving the marriage, we're just not meant to be together." And I'm like, couples argue. It's okay to argue. Why does it have to get to this point? "No, it doesn't matter, I already made my decision."

And then I said, "Okay," and before I would chase and then we'd come back and we'd be like nothing. Well, lately, the last few years, I'm like, "You know, I can't do this anymore. It's breaking my heart. I'm not going to pursue." And so now he feels that I'm checked out. He's pursuing and I'm like, "I'm done. I'm already checked out."

Becky Brown: Jennifer, when you got married to him, having a third marriage probably weighed on you, like, "Okay, do I really want to do this again?" What was the deciding factor with your husband now that you said, "You know what, let's do this, let's get married"?

Jennifer: Because I think he was a good man. When I compared him to my previous husband, he was a good man, stable, whatever, and I'm like, "Okay, this is just marriage, right?" So I said, "Okay," even though that was a red flag, I thought that because he was a good person...

Jackie MacHarris: What was a red flag?

Jennifer: The red flag was that, that the way he would handle conflict.

Becky Brown: Right. But you're comparing him to your drug-addicted, abusive previous spouse, right?

Jennifer: Into say that this is a good person versus my ex-husband was not a good person.

Brian Perez: Right, so the sky's the limit.

Jackie MacHarris: Right, because your ex-husband, the bar was on the ground. So when you say comparatively he's a good person, I think what Becky is saying is, yeah, well, he didn't have heart to try. So when you said he was a good person, he didn't have to do much.

Brian Perez: Maybe he was a better person.

Jackie MacHarris: He was a better person. So there was a judgment based on a comparison to someone who was drug addicted.

Becky Brown: Right. And so here you are now, Jennifer, with this big decision. What I would encourage you to do, have the two of you done therapy? Have the two of you done therapy?

Jennifer: Yeah, with church, but not really super in-depth because it's like he doesn't want to try to go to therapy.

Becky Brown: Yeah, because it's frustrating. It's so frustrating and it can feel so defeating, especially because you both have been married multiple times. And so here's the challenge. It's not necessarily this is a deal breaker. This is just, we don't know how to do relationships well. We don't know how to do it well for ourselves. We don't know how to connect with each other, to get what we need from each other.

Hurt happens in relationships, but healing happens in relationships. And so I want to invite you and your husband, before you make this decision, to join us at our "Intimacy in Marriage Intensive," which is going to be February. It's Valentine's weekend in Orange County. You can join us there and we can help you understand what the conflict is all about because you guys have a history now, not just with each other, but two other spouses, and you've got to have a roadmap for the future. Whether it is with this husband or maybe no husband in the future, I don't know. But I just think, Jennifer, you owe it to yourself, your husband owes it to himself, to see what is the problem. Not maybe with just the two of us together, it could be something in our past so that we can have a great future going forward.

Brian Perez: Yeah, we've heard miraculous stories of couples who attend the "Intimacy in Marriage Intensive" on the brink of divorce and they just say, "No, we're going to give it another go." And then years later, they're still together. So find out more about that at newlife.com. Jennifer, thank you so much for calling in today.

Today's podcast is brought to you by Club New Life supporters, who give a monthly donation because they want to continue to offer help and hope in these very, very difficult places. To find out more about Club New Life, you can go to our website, newlife.com, or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now, if you're new to us, we drop an episode every weekday. We would love it if you would rate or write a review, which helps more people discover help and hope and helps us share wisdom with as many people as possible. Now let's listen to our counselors as they help people walk through life's hardest places.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Kate in Colorado, thank you for calling into New Life Live. How can we help you today?

Kate: Brian Perez, I know who you are. Oh-oh, she found me. No, no, no, we're not going to talk, we're not going to talk to Kate, she knows all about me. Sorry, no, I'm joking. Tell us, Kate, tell us all about it. Give us the tea. Do what? I'm broke up. What did you say? We are glad to have you. You found Brian Perez. Yes, yes, spill the beans on me. Go ahead.

I've been chasing him for a long time. I finally caught him. Yes, we love it. Too funny, too funny. He always helps me, by the way. I'm just always so happy to hear him. My question today is that I went through horrible childhood abuse. Both parents tried killing me and I was abused. My mother dumped me out of the car and drove off and left me. And I felt like I had abandonment issues, but I don't know how it affects me today as an adult.

And I'm trying to find out, like the things that they did, they isolated me, they put me in a shed for a year and a half. So how does that affect me in my life today? I do counseling, and so I want to know for myself and I want to also know to help others.

Becky Brown: Kate, are you married?

Kate: Nope. I've been married five times.

Becky Brown: Okay, so that's a- there's one of the ways it affected you. Exactly. I've been divorced and single now for 25 years.

Jackie MacHarris: So that really, that does track then that that was one of the effects because it made it very difficult for you to be in relationship. I imagine relationships were unsafe, your people picker might have been off because you might have been naive because of the way that they kept you so isolated. And so that's one of the ways is in how you do relationship with other people, what makes you feel safe or unsafe is probably was probably bred into you or imprinted into you during those traumatizing years.

Becky Brown: Kate, and what are you discovering as you work with your counselor?

Kate: I don't work with a counselor. I do counseling. You're the therapist. Yes. Okay. That tracks too. I went to school for it, but I just got my associates. But I do biblical- I'm biblically based.

Jackie MacHarris: Okay, so there again, that's another way that it affected you. You experienced pain and trauma and you became a helper. Most of us are coming to this profession because of some experience of our own, either personally or vicariously through a loved one.

Becky Brown: Whether we admit it or not.

Kate: Well, I totally agree because I have so much compassion and empathy. I can't stand to see anyone hurt.

Jackie MacHarris: And you know, I love hearing that. Kate, that warmed my heart because more and more over the past week or so, I've been hearing people say the opposite. So having compassion for others is just key in being able to spread that around. That, again, how has it affected you? That's a way that it affected you, whereas someone else it might have turned them completely the opposite direction, but for you it gave you a heart and compassion for the hurting and the lost.

Kate: Well, I believe that it's the purpose that God's called me to. I feel a huge call on my life to work with hurting people.

Becky Brown: I love that, Kate, because like what Jackie was just saying, you could have become resentful, and you had every reason to be resentful, but what you've done instead is said, "Okay, I want to change people's lives." And I don't know about the season of marriages. When you were going through all of that, obviously you were younger and that's a time of searching and trying to find that connection.

What I want to encourage you, if you've listened to the show at all, we talk about a thing called attachment styles or attachment theory. I think that it can also give you some insight, not only for the work that you're doing with other people, but to understand your own story. Mark Cameron has a book called "Understanding Your Attachment Style." You can get it at the New Life store.

But it goes through understanding what makes us do what we do. And I wonder too, Kate, when you're asking this question, you're pretty convinced that God's called you to do this. And so when you ask the question, how has it impacted me, what part of your story do you have clarity as far as the impact of the abuse on your life?

Kate: Well, I do know that what do you already know? Well, I know that I had a ton of anger. And when I realized that anger, I ground my teeth so bad that I had to have all of my teeth pulled because they crumbled. And when I went through that, I realized, okay, I need to get help for anger because it's out of control. And why do I get so upset? And I always went back to my past. I always tell people I'm blind, but I'm not dumb.

Jackie MacHarris: Do you know, Kate, when you describe that though, are you physically blind?

Kate: Yes, yes.

Jackie MacHarris: Was that an effect of your childhood?

Kate: Well, I'm not sure because I've had lots of issues. I believe I've been oppressed by the devil. And whatever I try to do, I just wrote a book, it's just now finished. Brian probably remembers this because I got scammed with the first people that when I was trying to use ghostwriters and now I just finished the book and I tried again and I got it. And now it's published by Amazon and you can order it on Amazon.

Becky Brown: That's beautiful. So Kate, here's the thing about our early days of imprinting. Your body is keeping all of those memories stored and so as you work them out, as you have better understanding, making those connections, it brings freedom. When you described grinding your teeth, that's such a subconscious behavior. It wasn't like you said, "I'm going to grind my teeth," your body was expressing the anger, the fear, the hurt that you experienced before you probably even had words.

Now, the other part of your story is understanding why your parents were doing this. And I know for some people they're going to be like, "Well Becky, who cares? They're terrible." But you know what, this is generational.

Kate: I've already got that. I wrote a chapter of that on my book because my mother also went through childhood abuse. My father's mother died when he was an infant.

Jackie MacHarris: And a lot of people don't believe that what happens in our childhood affects us. And so you sharing your story, I think, is incredibly important. I want to touch on something you said about being demonized. Darkness and light can't live in the same space. And so as a believer, once you've accepted Christ and been filled with the Holy Spirit, you're not going to be demon possessed.

Now, you might have things happening in your life that feel like attacks, but once you've accepted Christ, you've accepted Christ and we're covered in the blood. But the difficulties that we sometimes attribute to demonization is really natural life having its consequences, and it's painful and sometimes there's destruction. And so we see it as darkness, but sometimes it is the process.

Sometimes before we heal, I tell my couples, couples therapy is going to make things worse before it makes things better because sometimes we have to go in and do some debridement and do the hard things and that gets scary and hard and messy.

Kate: But keep doing work. Well, I feel like I'm oppressed. I don't feel like- my mother had a demon in her. I went to my mom and I asked her to forgive me for the bitterness I held in my heart against her. And she knew she saw a change in me. And I said when I asked her to forgive me, she said, "Oh, forget it." And I'm like, "Whoo, I'm out of here."

And then before I was on my knees and she was in a rocking chair and before I could get up off of my knees, she said, "What's changed about you?" And I said, "I found Jesus, Mom. Do you want to know him?" And she said yes. And I led my mother to the Lord on my knees. And I know God allowed me to do that. And then I let my father to the Lord 18 years later, six months before he died.

Becky Brown: Look at what God can do, Kate. That's amazing. That's amazing. I would encourage you- I don't know what I would do without Jesus. I don't either. Me either. I'm with you. I think, Kate, one of the things that I would encourage you to do in this journey of understanding and even as you help people, I would encourage you to go through our "Healing is a Choice" course.

Because it will give you insight. One of the things that we talk about there are the lies that we believe. And sometimes, just like what you were just clarifying, Jackie, we believe that the enemy has more power than God does in our life. And that's not true. But we believe it and then we live into that defeated mindset and we can make the story make sense to us, but it keeps us from being free. But obviously, Kate, you have done some work and we are grateful that you called.

Brian Perez: Glad that you found Brian. We'll keep an eye on him for you. That's right. And I would love for you to join us at our "Healing is a Choice" course. I think it would just make a huge impact not only on your own personal life, but also on the people that you serve.

"Healing is a Choice." It is a online course that begins January 29th. It's 12 weeks, once a week. You can find out all about it at newlife.com. And the book that we mentioned by Mark Cameron, "Understanding Your Attachment Style," that's available in the newlife.com store. And it's also available as an audiobook, so you can hear Mark reading it. We'll be back.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

So just in case anybody's wondering, Kate in Colorado, how she was saying, "I found you, Brian." So I host another radio show that's heard in various places, and Kate calls into that show too. So now she found me here. So that's great. I'm not running from Kate, but I'm glad Kate found me. So that was a great phone call. Keep Kate in your prayers, everyone. Great woman there in Denver, Colorado.

So if you missed New Life Live yesterday, we archive all of our shows at newlife.com, the New Life app, and YouTube, but you might have missed the exciting news. Becky, would you please repeat it?

Becky Brown: Yes, we have met the match! Yay! And I said the other day, "Bingo," but that refers to Jill's talk. But listen, we are so grateful, not only for the donors that planted the seed and said, "Hey, we want to invite people into what God is doing through New Life," and we met the match because of faithful giving from so many people from so many places and so many amounts.

It really does make a difference. It doesn't matter if it's a dollar or $10,000. It really impacts the lives of so many people and it also impacts you as you give. Your generosity changes your life and changes the others' as well. So we are celebrating what God has done through your gifts to New Life that we made the match. We're so grateful.

Brian Perez: And every financial supporter is part of the stories of life change that we hear throughout the year. It's all possible because of you. We are so excited to see how God uses this ministry in 2026 to reach the hurting. You can be a partner in what will happen with your support. You can give online at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text NLM to 28950.

Earlier with Kate and I believe another caller earlier, we mentioned the "Healing is a Choice" online course that's coming up later this month. It begins January 29th. There are two other courses that you can sign up for. There's one called "Take Your Life Back" and "Lose It For Life." Yes, thank you for taking the words out of my mouth because I couldn't remember it.

But yes, this course also begins on January 29th and it focuses on spiritual and emotional healing, not just physical change, providing a supportive faith-based community for accountability and avoiding promises of rapid weight loss or magical solutions. It helps you understand the root factors driving your eating habits. Becky, is there anything wrong with just going on another fad diet or taking the latest weight loss pill or supplement?

Becky Brown: Well, it just creates more frustration because it's not about what you're eating, it's mostly about what's eating you. We've been doing "Lose It For Life" for over 25 years and we've helped so many people understand what the real "it" is. When we talk about "Lose It For Life," we want to have peace with the way that we do our lives.

For all those years we've been helping people. Matter of fact, this is one of the courses that fills up the fastest because it is everywhere, especially at the beginning of the year. Everybody's talking about health and how do I eat better, move more. We already know all that, so that magical cure doesn't always work for everybody. But when we get to the core of what is causing us to not take care of this temple that God has given us and understand what is happening to us, it's a powerful shift.

The other thing about these courses is you're going to be connected with a group of people. Here at New Life, redemptive relationships is one of our core values. We understand the power of connection. We live in a culture, actually I just read a report recently of the epidemic of loneliness. We are more connected technically, but we are so far removed from each other in relationship.

So in these courses, you're going to be connected with people who you're going to think, "Oh no, I don't want to do the group," and you know what, the group is going to be the best thing about it. No offense to any of the facilitators or the material, I'm just saying it's very powerful. And let me just say this about "Take Your Life Back." So many people struggle with issues of codependency or having a sense that they don't have any say in their own life. If this describes you, step into this course, "Take Your Life Back," and you will find the way to set the boundaries, to step into your new life and make true and lasting connections for your life.

Brian Perez: Yes, indeed. And I love just going back really quickly to "Lose It For Life," Lose It For Life. I'm so glad you highlight that, Becky. That's what the "it" means because you might look at the title and say, "Oh, lose weight for life. Okay, I'll do that." But no, it's more than just like you said, it's more than just what you're eating, it's about what's eating you.

So those courses begin January 29th. They are 12-week courses, once a week. All the details are at newlife.com or you can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. And something else happening this month, man, we've got so much going on. We never stop it seems. But Jackie, Jackie MacHarris, she's going to be doing a webinar. We started doing these webinars about four, five, six months ago and we do them about once a month.

They're 90 minutes and you hear a presentation for 60 minutes and then there's 30 minutes of Q&A. It's a webinar, you do it all online. You don't have to go anywhere, stay right there. We'll bring it to you in the comfort of your couch. Jackie is doing the next one on January 15th. What's it about, Jackie?

Jackie MacHarris: It is about depression. We want to give you some tools to help you reclaim your life, to help you get yourself regulated, to learn how to self-regulate. So we're looking forward to having people come and hear what we have to say. I'm not going to give any spoilers. You'll just have to come and see what we do.

But do know that it's not going to just be information. You will leave with some actionable steps to make the changes you need to make in your life.

Brian Perez: So that's on January 15th. You can sign up for it now at newlife.com. It's 90 minutes, including 30 minutes of Q&A. It's $24.99 per person, it's all online. And again, newlife.com or 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now go ahead, Becky.

Becky Brown: And Brian, can I add one more thing about the webinar? A lot of times people think, "I don't want to be in a webinar because I don't want people to see me." We're not going to see you. You will be kept anonymous. We will be seeing both Jackie and I, but you as an attendee will not be featured.

The reason why I make that clarification, especially on a webinar about depression, is because I know that it can be very hard to make the decision to do something when you're experiencing depression. I also want to invite those of you who have someone in your life that has experienced or is experiencing depression because this will give you tools to understand and to help your loved one in this season.

Jackie MacHarris: And maybe you think, "I'm not depressed, I'm just a little down, I'm just feeling a little blue." Okay, that's okay. Come and we can help you lift your spirits and help you prevent depression from taking over. You might find that you've got something going on in your life that you take something away either for yourself or someone that you care about.

Brian Perez: January 15th, more details at newlife.com. Again, the name of the webinar is "Break Free from Depression." Thank you, somewhere here in my notes. But yes, January 15th, that's the most important thing you need to know. Newlife.com to sign up.

Each new year begins with a blank page, a new chapter in your life that is yet to be written. Undoubtedly, there will be difficult and complex decisions. Knowing which direction to go may be challenging. So how can you know God's will in the new year? Well, I'm glad you asked. I've got a free tip sheet for you. It's called "How Can You Know God's Will in the New Year?" Perfect, right? Awesome.

You want this tip sheet? Here, we'll give it to you right now. Just call us and we will send it to you via email. 1-800-NEW-LIFE is the number to call. Again, it's called "How Can You Know God's Will in the New Year?" We so appreciate you watching us and listening to New Life Live. We're so blessed when people call into the show and they say, "Yeah, a friend of mine told me about your show and they said that I could get the help that I needed from you guys."

The fact that you trust us with your friends, with your family, that speaks volumes. So thank you so much for all your support this past year and we are looking forward to what the Lord has in store in 2026. Becky Brown, thank you for being on the show today. Dr. Jackie MacHarris, thank you as well and we'll see you in two weeks at the webinar that we're doing online January 15th. God bless you guys.

Becky Brown: And thank you, Brian.

Brian Perez: You're welcome.

Narrator: Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.