New Life LIVE

Voiceover: Welcome to the New Life Live Podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: We’re so glad you've let us join you in your journey of life. I’m Brian Perez and this is New Life Live. I’m surrounded by wisdom today as we've got licensed professional clinical counselor and president of New Life Ministries Becky Brown here. And for the second time this week, man, we've got to make her a regular, licensed professional counselor and co-presenter at our intimacy and marriage and restore workshops, Laura Mangin McDonald. Great to have you on the show today, ladies.

Becky Brown: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Glad to be here. Good to hang out with Becky.

Brian Perez: Yeah. Laura, let's give you the next few minutes before break time. What is on your mind?

Laura Mangin McDonald: Well, there’s always something on my mind. I always have 500 lanes open most of the time and always thinking and resolving. But I’ll tell you something that’s on my mind every week because I see it every week in my private practice. And that is, I call it love is free, but trust is earned.

And as Christians, this is where we really can get wrapped around the axle and myself too. Because what we do, it's one of the hardest things for me personally to consistently put in practice because our desire to give this unending grace and going, "It’s okay, we forgive you," right? And because what we want to do is we want to see who the person can become.

And that’s where we end up getting wrapped around the axle. We make our decisions based on who they can become, not who they are presently. And that does no one any good. So if we really look at love is free and trust is earned, love has no limits on forgiveness. God instructs us to, I always say, we don’t pull the throttle back or push it forward on grace. Grace is free.

But trust is earned. And many of us have not been taught that. It’s a discernment. So we can’t control what the person does, what they say, how they treat us, but we can control how we respond. In fact, Proverbs 4:23 tells us it’s our responsibility. God doesn’t just say, "Oh, hey, when you think about it, guard your heart." No, he says, "Guard your heart because it determines everything you do."

And that can feel really mean if you grew up looking for the good and having a misunderstanding of forgiveness. Because forgiveness is about, really it’s our best gift to us because I can release the person who owes me the debt. It’s about the past. But reconciliation, and this is where people get confused, is about the future and what’s happening.

So there are three things we need to do if we’re going to allow someone back on our personal property if they’ve ventured it, because our heart is our personal property. Here are the three things: Godly sorrow. It’s more than "I’m sorry I hurt you." I always say put wheels on that sorry and drive it. But Godly sorrow is other-focused. It’s empathetic.

It feels the sadness. It’s what Peter did when he denied Jesus. He was devastated he denied Jesus. It listens and, here's the keyword, it isn't defensive. But it leaves the door open for future questions because there's no expiration date. The second is ownership. Naming the behavior and understanding it.

The third is reconciliation and that's walking it out, a participation in a process where new experiences are learned. And this, my friends, will save you a lot of grief to put this into operation.

Brian Perez: Yeah, maybe we can talk about this a little bit more for a few minutes anyway when we come back from the break here on New Life Live. Great information there from Laura Mangin McDonald, our guest today on New Life Live. Becky Brown is here with us too, and we’re glad you're joining us as well, whether on the radio or on YouTube or Facebook or on a podcast. We are here for you five days a week on New Life Live.

Voiceover: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: "Love is free, trust is earned." That’s the topic that Laura Mangin McDonald brought up at the beginning of today's program, New Life Live. I’m Brian Perez. Becky Brown joins us as well. Becky, what are your thoughts on what Laura shared?

Becky Brown: Well, it’s not the first time I’ve heard Laura share this because we go way back. But it’s funny because in our Christian walk, we are taught forgive and forget. We’re taught look over the bad things and let it go. All the things that there is a little bit of truth in that, a little bit.

But the hard part is where do we draw the line? And even the third point, Laura, when you talk about reconciliation, we know that there’s a long journey to reconciliation because guess what? Forgiveness does not always lead to reconciliation. We want to get onto a truth-finding mission and, like we’ve said so many times, safety in relationship is of utmost importance.

And so when you get to the truth and you know the truth, it will set you free. And then you can make a decision of whether that person is safe to be in relationship with again.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Right. And Becky, the John 8:32, "you know the truth and the truth will set you free," we quote that all the time. But it’s a "then" verse, right? So 32 hinges on 31 that says, "If you’re truly my disciples, you will embrace my teachings."

Well, the Lord, the way he designed our nervous system, we don’t, we are made to remember. And that for a lot of good things. But we can’t override our nervous system in the way God’s designed it. That’s why the lady who called in earlier, she’s trying not to focus on that, but that’s miserable because her body is sending off the alarms going, "This is not resolved. You are not safe yet. You all have not reconciled."

Becky Brown: Right. And Laura, I also think about the wounds that we carry into relationship because if you're alive for more than five minutes, that’s what we talk about with attachment theory is really understanding where our disconnect from humankind starts.

And that distrust that is in us can begin way back there and then gets replicated in our closest relationships. Because guess what? If you're not close to somebody, it doesn't bother you whatever they do because it has no impact on you.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Exactly. That’s the avoidant we were talking about, right? Well, King David says, "I learned to trust at my mother's breast." Trust is being downloaded in our nervous system before we have language. And I mean, I could talk forever about that, all the stuff that’s downloaded before language and beginning in the womb.

But I love how the Lord has our nervous system as our backup generator. And if we feel something off, the first thing we can do is a James 1:5, "Lord, I’m the common denominator here. What’s going on in me? My body is reacting to something that maybe my mind has no comprehension of," right?

But our body is working properly. Now it may, I always say it doesn't lie, but it can’t tell time. So we may not know, it may be something from way earlier that it’s still trying to protect us because there’s some danger.

Becky Brown: When we talk about addiction on the program or we talk about sexual integrity issues or we talk about using food to feed whatever is hurting us, this is what’s happening. There’s a disconnect. We feel the pain internally and we’re looking for external ways to calm it down.

And to have that understanding of what is my story? How did I get to this place in my life? What are my relationships lacking? And you don’t know that on your own. You have to be in community, you have to be in connection to get that understanding.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Right. And God created us to, Ephesians says, to speak truth, right? We are to speak truth in love. But what happens if we have unhealed trauma, an incoherent narrative has evolved and we believe the narrative and so we perpetuate what’s not true, not deliberately, but because we were taught that well, dad gets mad and screams at you because you don’t do what he says.

Or you just try, I had someone actually tell me this week and it just broke my heart in a session. They said, "I found a way to make my mom's life difficult." I said, "At four years old?" I said, "No, you were told that." And that became an incoherent narrative.

So in the relationships that she’s had, relationships that were where she was inferior and someone else was superior, she played out that internal belief. "I cause problems and if you're upset, it’s because I haven’t done something right." And she believed that. Because train up a child the way he should go, no walk in it. It goes both ways.

Becky Brown: But I love what you just said though, Laura. Here’s somebody who this is their story in their head and they’re oblivious to this being the story. It’s a feeling and so they bring that wherever they go, whether it’s church, a relationship, their workplace, home. And it’s interesting because it reminds me of what God says to the couple in the garden. "Who told you that? Who told you that?" right? Who you been hanging out with, right?

Laura Mangin McDonald: Well, and what happens, Becky, and we know this as therapists, clinicians, is what we believe in our head will not, we think we’re kind of delusional thinking it will override. But our nervous system, what’s downloaded there, our heart that holds every nanosecond of life, determines what we do, which is why Proverbs 4:23, "guard your heart above all else because it determines what you do."

But I this week, I often do role-plays. And now you and I know if we sit here and did a role-play right now and I said, "Becky, I’m going to be some person who yelled at you in the past and I’m going to be that person and you’re going to go, 'Okay,'" right? Well, I did this with this young lady knowing that she had some trauma she was unaware of.

And so I said, "I’m going to be your father." So I go, I start having my face going and I’m yelling at her and tears just started flooding her, right? Well, so don’t get, I re-traumatized her a little bit only to get her connected with what was buried so deep.

And then I quickly, I came around her and I touched behind her and I said, "You tell him to stop. That it’s not okay for him to, no, no matter nothing. You do not deserve this," right? And so what was so beautiful because before that I’d asked her where she would feel pressure in her body and she felt the release. She felt the release. So I mean, it’s all there.

Becky Brown: One of my favorite quotes that JJ refers to, but it’s from Dr. Kurt Thompson who is a Christian psychiatrist and he says, "We’re all born into this world looking for someone who’s looking for us." And what’s happening to us as we encounter the world is we’re running into everybody else's pain.

If you’ve got struggles with your parents, it’s because they had struggles with theirs and so on and so forth. It’s really an amazing thing to be able to have a healthy relationship. And if you're under the delusion, and it is delusional, that they just happen, that’s wrong. Like, there’s work that has to be done and to understand that we really do need a savior.

Someone, God has created us with this wiring and with our soul, our mind, our body and we get impacted because we live this side of heaven. And there’s work to do, but that’s the good news.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Right. And if we’re breathing, we have issues, right? Let’s all get on the struggle bus because if you don’t think you're on it, well, bless your heart, you're on it. You're driving it. Let us help you. Yeah, I’m the driver of it, right?

But understanding how God made our nervous system, understanding that people that come in and they’re not well for lack of trying, they’ve tried and they’ve tried. But if we’re using the wrong playbook, as Proverbs says, "a man thinks he’s right in his mind, but it ends to a path of death."

Trying harder won’t get us there. We need the right playbook. And God’s playbook is the right playbook and to see it through his kind and tender eyes. That he’s not mad at us, he’s not going, "Oh my gosh." He wants us to know what’s in our hearts and to ask him to search it. And then so through him vertically and then horizontally through his body of Christ, we find these safe places and all of us is accepted. And that’s freedom. That’s freedom.

Brian Perez: You're listening to New Life Live, Brian Perez here with Becky Brown and Laura Mangin McDonald. And Laura, you started the segment by talking about how Christians are taught to forgive and forget. Another thing that I think Christians are taught is "love covers a multitude of sins."

And that is in God's word, so it’s true, but I think people sometimes maybe use that verse as a "well, nobody’s perfect, so I’m just going to look the other way and not tell this person that I don’t trust them anymore. I’m just going to keep on loving them." What do you say to that?

Voiceover: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Well, I’m so glad you asked. Because using that verse specifically, I’ll say love covers a multitude of sins, but it does not deny sins. So we do not deny. And yes, of course, all of us need growth. This isn't about, well, we need to, because I hear that often in betrayal and I know Becky has too.

Because people say, "Well, your husband betrayed you, but you sinned too." Now come on. So we don’t deny the magnitude of the sin. But what we do is a key part of that process is ownership. And that is naming what I’ve done and understanding the root cause of it because stopping the behavior doesn't stop the problem.

And I’ll tell people, "Okay, I believe you're remorseful, I believe that you repent, but you'll be right back here again unless you understand how you got here." That’s huge.

Brian Perez: Yeah, and I wonder how many spouses are being told that, like if their spouse did betray them and they're like, "Well, maybe I’m partially to blame just like my friend said. Maybe I did something, maybe I wasn’t loving enough to my spouse and so I guess this is just something that I brought on myself."

Becky Brown: Well, and unfortunately, Brian, that has been told to a lot of people in that situation where "if you were" and then fill in the blank "then I wouldn’t have done this." At the end of the day, we are the common denominator as Laura says, but we also are the determiner of how we live our life.

If you think that somebody else is in control of your life, guess what? You’ve given them the keys. And let’s get the keys back, let’s figure out what is God calling me to do and where is my team because you're not going to do this on your own. You need people around you and great godly counselor.

Brian Perez: Yep. I know people use those excuses all the time because we hear them here when people call in to the show. But yeah, somebody out there, maybe a new listener, a new viewer on Facebook or YouTube, maybe that’s what you’ve been believing all this time.

Well, we are here to help you here at New Life Live. You can find out all about us at newlife.com or you can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or you can call into the studio when we’re here recording shows because we would love to talk to you and show you what the next step for you would be. So we’re going to take a quick break and then we’ll be back with Becky Brown and Laura Mangin McDonald on New Life Live.

Voiceover: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Becky Brown and Laura Mangin McDonald on the show today. So far we’ve talked about love, trust, betrayal, forgiveness. We’re not even to the halfway point of the show yet and we’ve discussed all these topics. That’s because here at New Life, we walk with people through real pain toward real healing.

And Laura will be doing just that when she leads a webinar on February 26th on the topic of betrayal. It’s called From Pain to Peace and it’s for anyone who’s experienced betrayal through a spouse, partner, friend, parent, or someone they deeply trusted. It’s a 90-minute webinar.

It’s not about rushing forgiveness or minimizing pain, just, "Oh, get over it, here's how to do it in three easy steps." No, that’s not what this is about. It’s about understanding what betrayal does to your mind, your body, your spirit and learning how to heal in healthy biblical ways.

You’ll learn how to stabilize emotionally during crisis, set healthy boundaries, and begin rebuilding trust, whether in your current relationship or future ones. Laura, what do you say to someone who’s reasoning, "I was betrayed but it was so long ago, I think I’m over it, I don’t think I need this webinar"?

Laura Mangin McDonald: Well, that would be my first clue to say "I think." Because we know when we in places that will go, "There’s your first clue." And I say that in love because I think our resistance as humans and especially as Christians, there’s some shame attached that it’s, "Me and the Lord and I should be," and the Lord is going, "Please, please, no. I’m not shocked.

The body of Christ, I work through you through y'all to heal each other. My spirit lives in you, but it’s in these experiences of the acceptance because all of this needs to be brought forth." I always say what we hold back will hold us hostage.

And if there’s some shame attached to "I shouldn’t be have such a strong reaction" or "I should be healed by now." And Becky will know from the 80s about the "shoulds" and there was a little saying with that about "shoulds." But be curious and go, "Hmm, well, let me sign up for this webinar and just see if maybe I might have something or if maybe I’m healed." This webinar will let you know because we don’t outgrow what we didn’t get.

Brian Perez: Yeah, it’s called From Pain to Peace, it’s on February 26th and you can sign up or find out more about it at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Let's go to the phones.

Becky Brown: And can I say, and isn't it funny that God has a southern drawl? He says, "Y'all," he needs you.

Brian Perez: You noticed that, Becky? You noticed that? Yeah. I wonder what Bible translation Laura reads, but that would be interesting.

Laura Mangin McDonald: The Texan version. Yes, the Texan version.

Brian Perez: All right, let's go to Savannah, Georgia to Serena who listens to the New Life Live podcast. Hi, Serena. Thanks for calling in today.

Serena: Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I’ve been listening for decades and I’m also a New Life Live supporter. My question today is, what are some suggestions that you would have for somebody that’s navigating parenting in a blended family?

I’m a stepmom and I’ve been in this situation for five years and the children are all adults now, there’s three of them. There seems to be a high level of success with the oldest one, who is a male. Our son is doing very well, he lives on his own, he works, and does things with us occasionally for holidays and things like that, so we have healthy rapport with him.

The latter two are both females, the girls seem to be struggling a little bit in terms of even moving in the direction of launching. There’s a lot behind that, I could give many examples, but there seems to be a resistance to the whole idea of launching.

Brian Perez: How old are the two youngest?

Serena: 18 and 21.

Becky Brown: And did the 18-year-old graduate from high school yet?

Serena: No, she’s in high school. This is her last year.

Becky Brown: Okay. And is their mom still in their picture, Serena?

Serena: No, their mom is deceased.

Becky Brown: Okay. And when did she die?

Serena: About 10 years ago.

Becky Brown: Okay. So the 18-year-old was eight at the time. And then when did you come in, I know I got a million questions, but it makes a difference. Serena, when did you come into their life?

Serena: When they were 12, 15, and 18.

Becky Brown: Okay. So when you think about the oldest one who seemingly he’s functioning independently, and I hear that’s what your concern is, that you want to be able to launch them strong, you want them to feel equipped to do life as an adult, right?

Serena: Yes.

Becky Brown: Okay. Well, before I get into anything more, we got some music coming up. That means we’ve got a break and we’ll take a break and we’ll come back, but you know that, Serena, because you listen to us all the time. We’ll give you some answers on how, because what I hear your question is, Serena, is how do we help them launch, but also how do we have a good healthy adult relationship with them?

Brian Perez: All right, we’ll continue our conversation with Serena when we come back here on New Life Live. And Serena, let me say it again, thank you so much for being a long-time listener and a monthly financial contributor as well. You're one of the many who help us do what we do here at New Life, whether it’s the radio show or the podcasts, the intensives, the webinars. Thank you very much. We’ll be right back here on New Life Live.

Voiceover: Today's podcast is brought to you by Club New Life supporters who give a monthly donation because they want to continue to offer help and hope in these very, very difficult places. To find out more about Club New Life, you can go to our website newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

Now if you're new to us, we drop an episode every weekday. We would love it if you would rate or write a review, which helps more people discover help and hope and helps us share wisdom with as many people as possible. Now let's listen to our counselors as they help people walk through life's hardest places.

Brian Perez: Let's continue with Serena. Becky Brown, what were you asking Serena?

Becky Brown: Serena, we had a little bit of break and I had a thousand questions for you. Can you see why I was asking all those questions?

Serena: Yes.

Becky Brown: What’s your take on why I’m poking around in what has been happening?

Serena: For sure, because the situation is that they’ve lost the same-sex parent at a young age. Of course they needed so much more from their mom at the time that they lost her. We get a little stuck in the situation just because the girls have not been open to getting counseling or some form of healing around that situation with the mom.

They both approach different subjects different ways. For example, Mother's Day, one of them wants to do one thing and the other one wants to do something different. Which is typical because they’re not the same, they weren’t the same age or they didn’t have the same amount of time with their mom, so it makes sense that they wouldn’t necessarily do that.

But they seem to be stuck with the idea that "I’m fine, I’m okay, life is good, I’m able to handle this," but it doesn't seem like they’re able to.

Becky Brown: That’s right. But they’re still figuring things out. Their brain isn't fully formed yet. But here's one thing, Serena, how did she die? Was it sickness, what happened?

Serena: She had brain cancer. She had issues with tumors over a long period of time, but it didn’t become cancerous until the last two years before she passed. So she did consume treatment and things like that, so they went to the hospital with her when she was getting treatment.

Becky Brown: One of the things that I want you to be aware of is meeting them where they are. You have different insight because of being a grown woman and you were not in their life when they were going through that. But they came into this part of their journey, the eight-year-old probably only knew a sick mother, not one that was fully into life doing the whole thing.

And so one of the biggest challenges is, okay, that was then and I can’t make them do anything, but what I can do is meet them where they are and do what I can to help them along their journey. So you got two different ones. I just want to ask one more question, Serena. Is the 21-year-old even thinking about leaving?

Brian Perez: We just lost Serena. Something happened with the phone. Hopefully she’ll call back.

Becky Brown: Well, so let me wrap up and then I’ll let Laura take it from there. But the reason why I’m asking all these questions is because there’s a bigger story than the initial question of their failure to launch or they’re not motivated.

Now we know more of the story and Serena even said, "I understand that this is part of their journey." We all have people in our lives that have different stories and their motivation to do anything is going to be different. And so when you think about it, the 18-year-old, she’s still in high school and there’s a lot of high schoolers who don’t have that same story that they’re not ready to go either.

The 21-year-old's a different story, but that also is what kind of home are we creating where we teach people how to adult. And we do that by even when they’re smaller, take the trash out, clean up after yourself, this is all part of that journey. It doesn't just happen at 21.

But that’s the reason why I’m asking all the questions because in order to have good relationships, we have to be able to meet somebody where they are and then to check in with ourselves of what are my expectations and how do I communicate that with the other person.

Brian Perez: We do have Serena back. Laura, what would you say to her?

Laura Mangin McDonald: Well, I totally agree Becky, we are tracking the same on the questions. I actually have a few more to just kind of, first let me make some comments. Let me give you some relief, Serena.

I’ll make some comments that our prefrontal cortex, the executive part of our brain, we used to think it was like 27 it developed, now it’s 35. So it’s just not fully developed until then. Also I was wondering about if they’re college-bound, if the 21-year-old's in college and if the 18-year-old plans to go.

But really, it is meeting them where they are. Someone can’t be where they’re not. And oftentimes we can think, "Oh my gosh, if you don’t get there," we can get a little panicky for them and think "you’re not going to launch into adulthood." Well, they are where they are and that’s where we unpack and open up our toolbox.

I would also wonder, Serena, you said you’ve been married five years. So how much time before the five-year marriage mark were you with or around the girls?

Serena: Two years prior.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Okay, so you came in at year three of grief. And I would say that’s ginormous, especially for the eight-year-old who is just leaving childhood and into young adolescence. And then she had all the teen hormones when y'all got married. I mean, that’s a whole entity in and of itself for you to come in. Is your husband, are y'all on the same page in how you view this?

Serena: At times, it’s not consistent across the board. There’s some things that he considers not quite as important, like them having chores and taking responsibility in terms of things around the house. So I have not pressed that issue, that one in particular.

There’s probably another one as they’ve gotten older that I’ve focused a little bit more on because it’s tied to them going to college. The middle one is in college, the older girl's in college right now, so I press a little bit more in terms of the finances because that’s going to hinder her accomplishing her goals and her dreams if that’s not something that’s considered. So the other things I just kind of don’t stir the pot.

Becky Brown: Serena, I’m frustrated for you because you’re frustrated, aren’t you?

Serena: Yes. Some days it feels like a prison sentence, other days it feels like it’s just not. Honestly, I feel like one thing I need to look at for the new year is finding myself a stepparenting support group. I think that would help me because there’s some things that go on and I’m just not sure if it’s manipulation or do you really need something?

Becky Brown: Yeah. Well, you know, here's the challenge though, Serena, you are stepparenting but you are parenting. I mean, you're not parenting anymore, they’re at an age where even if they were your own blood children, you're done parenting when they’re 18. No, it’s true, you're launching them at that point.

And so you're right when you're talking about the older one needing to take responsibility because you're helping her to understand what the next chapter of her life is going to like. I think what would be the most helpful is that you and your husband get into couples counseling and that we get some resolution about where the two of you stand.

Because if you use the word "I feel like I’m in prison," you are not the warden. Those girls are the warden. Well, actually your husband is, and he’s allowing this to happen.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Right. And I’ll make my spiritual bet here that the husband has not grieved the loss because he’s trying to make up for with the girls by not expecting too much of them because of what they’ve been through.

But that’s his grief. And he’s unknowingly, as a blind spot, imposing that onto the girls thinking he’s helping them, but he’s really causing problems by not allowing them to feel empowered going, "I can hold this is the loss of my mother and here's where I continue to gain skills." They coexist. But his grief is overshadowing that.

Brian Perez: Doing Life with Your Adult Children would be a great resource for you to pick up, Serena, from the newlife.com store. Thank you so much for calling in today to New Life Live. A couple of statistics that you guys mentioned right now in speaking with Serena.

Well, one of them is I think an obvious one that everyone knows, that we’re done parenting when our kids turn 18. At that point they’re adults, we’re done. But based on something you said, Laura, that the development of the prefrontal cortex, they said it used to be 27 and now it’s 35.

Therefore, does that mean that maybe we shouldn't push our kids out the door not literally, but at 18? Maybe we should wait a few more years because their prefrontal is still developing. What do you guys say to that?

Laura Mangin McDonald: No, it makes sense, but no, they need to launch. Because early adolescence and the teen years of where they rebel, that’s all the practice stage for launching, right? To practice what’s it like to fall down and get back up.

But you do that in a safe environment. So that’s why when Becky says we’re done, we’re really done even though, hey, even as me as a parent, I still forget that at times, right? But they still need to practice and then to know that they can do it. They have the ability to figure it out. But it just means that they’re just continuing to develop.

Becky Brown: Well, I was just going to say, it’s one of those where you don’t lift weights one time and have fitness, right? So what you're describing, Laura, is the trial and error we’re just continuing to learn.

But when you have this idea that they’re all going to be adults at 18, I don’t necessarily mean it that go be free. But you move from parenting to mentorship, to a different relationship. And I don’t know about you, Brian, but I made a lot of mistakes when I was younger and I learned real quick.

Brian Perez: No, I didn’t make any. Joking. I still make them, right?

Becky Brown: That’s right. And I’m way past 35.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Me too. But it’s to empower them that you can do it. And falling down, it’s even some of the recent neuroscience with toddlers is letting them struggle. And we all know the butterfly in the cocoon.

If we try to interfere with that process, we cause a handicap in that butterfly launching. So we’ve got to, and it’s hard, I’ll tell you I’m a helper, I’m a fixer. And so I have to constantly be self-aware of my stuff that spills over onto others or my adult kids.

Brian Perez: Indeed. Great conversation today here on New Life Live. Thanks so much for joining us. If you joined us maybe in the middle of the show and you're wondering, "Wow, what did I miss?" Well, we archive all of our episodes on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and YouTube, so you can go check those.

And if you watch us on YouTube, make sure to subscribe, click that bell icon, you'll get notified every time we do something here at New Life Live, which is all the time. And that’s why we love when people come alongside us and support us either with one-time gifts or monthly gifts. What do we do with what we receive, Becky?

Becky Brown: You know, we make it make a difference in the people's lives that we encounter. Whether it’s because you're listening right now or maybe you’ve been listening a long time. New Life for more than 35 years, longer than people are adults, no.

We’ve been speaking into those places that are really hard. Everything from men's sexual integrity through our Every Man's Battle intensive through marriages, we want marriages to be strong. We do that at our Intimacy in Marriage intensive. You can join us there.

And Restore to help women who have experienced betrayal, as well as our nationwide counselor network, our coaches. We also have Life Recovery Groups all across the globe. Our ministry is helping people find their next step forward and to find the connections because we believe in the power of redemptive relationships. And I want to encourage you, if you haven’t given yet, you can give today and it'll make a difference in your life as well as others as well.

Brian Perez: For sure. You can call 1-800-NEW-LIFE or give online at newlife.com or text NLM as in New Life Ministries to 28950.

Becky Brown: And Brian, can I add one more thing? Of course. We’re hosting a special New Life Zoom gathering and it’s going to be February 3rd, 8:00 PM Eastern for our partners of the ministry. Those of you who give financially and you believe in what we’re doing here at New Life.

We’re going to have a special talk with Jim Burns and we’ll also be sharing some exciting things that we have planned for 2026. And you know, if you want to be more connected to what God is doing in New Life, we want you to be part of it. For all the details you can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE and our representatives will give you all the details. We’d love for you to be there.

Brian Perez: Another way to stay connected with us is to sign up for our newsletter at newlife.com. You’ll get that once a month I believe, but every few days you’ll just get an email about something exciting that’s going on here at New Life Live.

Also our devotional, you'll get that every day. Laura Mangin McDonald, it was such a treat to have you on twice this week on New Life Live. And I just figured out why Laura isn't on the show as often as we’d like. It’s because all those things that Becky mentioned, everything that we do at New Life, Laura does a lot of it.

I mean, she’s one of the co-presenters at a couple of our intensives and she’s going to be doing this webinar next month on betrayal, which everyone can still sign up for. But the two intensives that are coming up, we’ve got Intimacy in Marriage, that is February 13th through the 15th in Orange County, California.

It'd be great for you and your spouse or if you're engaged, you guys can come out and sign up for it at newlife.com. And then the other intensive that Laura does is called Restore: Healing After Betrayal. That is for women who have been betrayed by their spouse and it’s a great opportunity for you to connect with other women who are in a similar situation as you.

But you're there together to heal, to hear from Laura the wisdom that she imparts. She’s also written a couple of books that are available in the newlife.com store that we highly encourage you to get. They are called How You Think Determines the Course of Your Life and The Heart Handbook.

You can pick these two up at the newlife.com store. Laura Mangin McDonald, great to have you here. We’re going to have you again on soon. Becky Brown, as always, great to speak with you. And thank you, ladies, for the wisdom that you imparted to our listeners and viewers today here on New Life Live. We’ll see you at church this Sunday and we’ll be back with you on Monday here on New Life Live.

Voiceover: Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it.

Remember we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we’re so glad that you're here.