New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

So glad you found us today. We are New Life Live. Bryant Perez is my name, anticipating your phone calls for the next two hours at 1-800-229-3000. The sooner you call in, the better of a chance you'll get on. In fact, Susan is already on the line, so we'll get to you first when we start in just a little bit.

If you have a question that you can't ask anywhere else, that's why we are here. We are live and ready to talk. No judgment, just practical help. Call us before the phone lines fill up. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Here to give you that good advice, we've got licensed marriage and family therapist, Dr. Jackie Mack Harris. Hope to have you at my webinar tomorrow, Harris. How are you, Jackie?

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: I am well. I am well.

New Life: And we've also got clinical psychologist Dr. Alice Benton, who's going to start us off with a conversation on—well, did you just ask Philip to call in?

Dr. Alice Benton: I did. It took me a second. All the Philips in the world are going to call in before the phone lines fill up. That was a good joke for this morning.

As Bryant is kicking us off here fired up, I want to share with you something that can be poison ivy to relationship. It is the way we respond when someone tells us that we hurt them. If you've ever responded this way—and most of us have—take notice. "I was just joking." "You're so sensitive." "You're so dramatic." "I didn't mean to hurt you." "Well, I'm sorry if that hurt you."

There are reasons why, legitimate reasons why we respond in these ways. Often our motivation wasn't harmful or evil in how we treated someone. But if that's the posture we take when we respond, it comes across as defensive. It comes across on the offense, and it adds even more hurt to the relationship.

If you want your words to be life-giving, consider these phrases instead. "What I said hurt you." "My tone was too intense." "Your feelings matter." "I can understand that my approach stung." "I was wrong. You were right."

Now, I've worked with many couples, and I'm sure Jackie has, too, where the more intense spouse came from an even more intense background. Often highly abusive, sometimes substance use involved. So, their level of intensity to them is much lower than what they grew up with. In fact, they might feel like they're treating their spouse with kid gloves because they're not laying a hand on them.

But what we need to learn is that if we want to safeguard relationship, especially the marital relationship and the parent-child relationship, our words matter. They have deep, lasting, even lifelong effect. So, we can help you to figure out what wording are you using that's like poison ivy to your family and how do you get that back on track so that it becomes life-giving wording.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: I love that. I love the idea of inviting people to take responsibility for what they say. So often we say what we want to say, and we might say, "Well, I'm just keeping it 100," or "I'm just being real," or "I'm being honest. Truth hurts." Not thinking about the fact that you could have been honest and kind. You could have shown grace and said the truth. I love that, Alice.

Proverbs 4:23 tells us to guard our heart, for it's the wellspring of life. I also think we're charged to guard the hearts of our spouse and our children because it's the wellspring of life.

New Life: Keeping it real. Yeah, that's something that doesn't always work. We want to be truthful, but at the same time, we've got to show tact. We've got to just be a little more pleasant. It's not easy because depending on how long you've been on planet earth, you may have decades of usage of these poison ivy words.

It's time to change things up a little bit, and we can help you here at New Life Live. We're going to be in the studio for two hours today. Can't wait to speak with you. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call. If you're watching on Facebook or YouTube, you can call in too. The number's right there at the bottom of your screen. We'll be back.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

If you're looking to start or join a life recovery group in the New Year, visit newlife.com for all the information you need and for recovery-related articles and products. We're going to go right to the phones right now with Susan in San Francisco as promised, listening on newlife.com. Thank you, Susan, for listening online and for calling in today. How can we help you?

Susan: Hi, good afternoon. I'm really glad that I got connected. Thank you so much for doing all that you do. I'm coming from a different country. My husband is in military. Because we met there, we didn't really date each other. We did have been talking to each other but not very deeply.

According to my culture, I'm supposed to get arranged marriage. I was okay because I was going through a heartbreak and all. So I thought, okay, he wanted me, so he just proposed to me and we got married. That's why I came here to US.

When we got the marriage done and everything, then he started feeling depressed and he's like, "We rushed into the marriage. I feel trapped." That's what he would tell me. I really didn't get a husband, but I just was trying to support him because I really understand it's an American culture to date first and then get married. I'm okay with getting married first and then knowing each other.

I was trying that with him, like we can be friends. We don't have to be husband and wife in the beginning. We can start knowing each other. I tried all my way to support him, but it didn't work out. Then all of then he started seeing about the separation because he said, "I need my time. I need to think about it."

I still wanted to talk about like, let's go to the therapy. Let's go to the counseling and do stuff. We really didn't do any activities together either. He doesn't talk to me anything. Instead, he would call his friends and discuss about his feelings.

There was another couple that was friends with him. He would call their friends that was like the wife of the another friend. I don't have any problem because I really don't think—because they were friends for five more years before me. So I don't mind. I'm like, at least he's talking to somebody. He's taking out his feelings.

New Life: So what's your main question for us, Susan?

Susan: Okay. So the thing is that we got separated after four years of with no connection. All these things made me think that he doesn't want the relationship and all. So I got separated. I'm living separate in a different house, different place.

Then I started seeing somebody else, although I did not wanted to because I feel guilty that I'm still married and not fully divorced, but I'm separated. I started seeing somebody, but then when he comes to know about it, he's angry and he's blaming me that why you do that. Before even going for the separation, I told him that it's not okay. We didn't even try ourselves first before going for a separation. So it doesn't make sense to me.

I was rejected so many times, so I really had an idea that it's not going to work out. I was feeling lonely. In this country, I'm all alone. So I started going out, making friends, and I started like seeing somebody. Now he's against it. He's blaming me that I do all the bad stuff and I do this and I do that and I don't live without him.

New Life: Susan, is your husband from another country as well, or is he from America?

Susan: No, he's from America.

New Life: So I just want to make sure that we understand. So you were living in a different country, and in that country, arranged marriages are common, and so you were fine with that. The two of you were introduced somehow and you came over and married him. Then once you got here, he's in the military, so he was traveling. That's how the two of you got connected.

I was trying to figure out how did you guys meet? Was it arranged by parents? Was this a long-term arrangement? Now is the question: are you at fault? What is the question?

Susan: My question, yeah, like is it really right for me to—am I doing something really that is wrong? Because I feel like I should get divorced from him. If he wants to come back, I really don't feel like even though I love him, I really like him. But I don't think so it's a good relationship because he has a personality of getting separated and running away. I don't want to go through this again and again every time. But still I really wanted to work out on my marriage, too. But then I started seeing somebody. So where am I wrong? What can I do in a good way so that I don't want to hurt him and also the guy that I'm seeing right now and not me either.

Dr. Alice Benton: Susan, I feel great compassion for you because this sure seems like a setup. Your husband brings you to this country, basically leaves you alone and separates from you, and then yet he gets angry when you find a friendship and companionship with someone else. That must be so confusing to you. They're all mixed messages, mostly telling you, "I don't want you," until you're seeing somebody else. And now, "What do you think you're doing? You're not supposed to do that." So you must have felt so confused, betrayed, and probably abandoned by your husband.

As to your question of where am I wrong, it depends on what your standards are. Are you a Christian? Are you a believer?

Susan: Oh, yes, I am. I've been in the church for my whole life.

Dr. Alice Benton: So you know part of the answer to that question, where am I wrong. What do you believe about dating another man when you're married as a Christian?

Susan: Yeah, yeah, I agree to that. It's not okay. That's why I felt guilty about it to start with. So I felt guilty, and I still am feeling guilty about it.

Dr. Alice Benton: So your guilt is a healthy sign that you know in that way you're out of alignment with God's standard. He has these standards for us as guardrails to protect us because we get ourselves into messy situations when we go outside of His will.

Your husband already got you into a messy situation with the way he's been so withdrawn and distant and wasn't willing to do the work that you wanted to do. You invited him into therapy. So now you're wondering what do I do.

This is another tough answer. You know maybe that there are some biblically allowed, biblically permitted divorces. But there too God really wants to protect us from the chaos that divorce always causes. Divorce is evil. It just is. It tears apart what is not supposed to be torn apart. Sometimes it's the lesser evil. So we're permitted to choose divorce in these two specific situations that the Bible lays out. One is if we've been abandoned by a non-believer or if there's adultery taking place on your husband's part.

So you'll have to look at those and determine do these apply because if they don't, my belief is that God would be protecting you from worse harm if you chose divorce if those situations don't apply. You said, "Well, I don't want to hurt my husband and I don't want to hurt the guy I'm dating." Of course not. You're a caring person. You're going to have to pick your pain. Either the pain of living outside God's will, the pain of choosing a divorce, or the pain of disappointing this person that you're dating. Someone is going to hurt. It is inevitable. But the choice that leads us to the best contentedness eventually through the suffering is to choose to follow God's will because He knows more than we do. He's got the bird's eye view on our situation.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: I'm listening to a book right now called The Cure. When you said choosing God's will, it this image popped into my mind. In the book, he's telling a story about following after God, chasing after God, trying to build relationship with God, and he comes to a fork in the road. And one sign and arrow says "pleasing God." The other sign and arrow says "trusting God." And he's like, "Is there a third option because this is hard."

He takes the "pleasing God" route and then he tells the story of what that is like. That's the working to be saved. That's the "I'm trying really hard. I'm working hard to get closer to God," when all that really does is pull us further away because we're constantly telling ourselves we're not close to God while we're trying to get closer to Him. Eventually, he backtracks, takes the mask off, backtracks and goes into "trusting God."

He walks into this room on the "trusting God" path. Just like he had walked into the room on the other side where everybody was striving and faking and had to put on a mask in order to stay in that group, he walks into this other room and they say "how are you?" At first, he says "fine" because when he was honest in the other room, everybody was like, "No, put this mask on." But in this room, he goes to say "fine" and he's like, "I'm tired. I can't do this anymore." So he just yells out, "I'm not fine. I'm not okay. I haven't been okay in a long time." And everybody's like, "Yeah, neither are we. That's why we trust God."

Sometimes we make a mess of things because we are trying to fix the problem rather than trusting God. Be honest with yourself. Be honest with God. I think I agree with Dr. Alice. I think you have the answers. I think you know in your heart what needs to happen, but you're going to have to pick your pain. Not only is one of you going to be hurt, multiple of you are probably going to be hurt because even if you choose to try to save your marriage, there's going to be work that has to be done and that's going to be some grieving that needs to be done. That's going to hurt the guy you're maybe seeing now.

It might be tough for your husband to do the work he has to do. He has some things he might need to work through and that's going to cause some pain to go into counseling and uncover the things that might be preventing him from connecting with you. So whatever decision you choose, be prepared for pain and trust God in it. Because when you get to the other side, you'll be at healing rather than mess.

Dr. Alice Benton: God's way is usually pain first, reward later. Our way is "Give me my pleasure first," but I'm going to feel a whole lot of pain in the cost of my pleasure later.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: And we just keep forgetting. We lean into the "Give me my pleasure and my reward" and forget the consequences on the other end instead of flipping it. This book, The Cure, just it I'm just getting into it, but it just of course God would bring those two things together for me this morning because He wants us to know we must trust Him whatever the thing is.

Dr. Alice Benton: Susan, don't walk this alone. What we're telling you is too hard to put into practice without a community. You don't have a community here, so let us connect you with a counselor. Let us connect you with a New Life Recovery Group in your area.

Susan: That would be great. I really need that help. That would be great. And also I just wanted to mention thing about the—when I was living with him already in the house, I was in the house but in the separate room. We started living in the separate room too because he was asking for separation. Of course not working here, I'm a new person. I'm not working, so I didn't had a place to go to. No people to go to, no friends, no family to go to either.

So I was like, okay, can I just live in a separate room at least? I started living in a separate room, and then still he didn't wanted that. He was like having a separate house. He wanted a separate thing everything.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: A counselor can help with that. Now there are couples who live in separate houses, but they wanted marriage so that they can be together God's way. There are couples who sleep in separate bedrooms for various reasons. Those things can be navigated and negotiated, but a good counselor can help you do that. So let us get you connected with someone. Thank you so much for calling in, Susan.

New Life: And him wanting a separate living arrangements, it's not because he's seeing someone too, is it?

Susan: That's what I was trying to say. After that I have—I did not had any idea because but then one day he's like he wants to go to his parents' house and he's like, "Do you want to come to—" I'm like, "Okay, you're inviting me?" So I will go to your parents' house. I went to his parents' house, came back, and then I received an email from—I have two emails. I received the two email asking—the lady is asking me, "Oh, I heard about your divorce from [my husband's name], that you're getting divorced and you went to see him, his parents. So are you is it really true that you're getting separated and like divorced?" When I saw that email, I was so so surprised. Like how did she even get my email?

New Life: That certainly sounds very suspicious, and it is a concern to investigate further. Susan, thanks for calling in today. Stay on hold. We'll put you in touch with a Life Recovery Group in your area, just a group of people that can come alongside you during this time. We'll also find a counselor from our network that you can be in touch with.

We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back with more of your phone calls. I see Eva and Anna and Randy all ready to call in and talk to us here at New Life Live. We'll be back.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

If you feel trapped by past pain, toxic relationships, or patterns that won't break, the Take Your Life Back course was designed for you. It's a 12-week online course that's led by a counselor and meets one hour per week on Zoom. The Take Your Life Back course will help you break free from what's been holding you down, be it codependency, guilt, regret, unhealthy boundaries, or emotional wounds. You'll rediscover who you are in Christ. It's time to reclaim your future, stop the cycle, and take your life back. Get all the details about this course and two others that also start January 29th at newlife.com.

And in case you're wondering, the other two courses we're offering are called Healing Is a Choice and Lose It for Life. 1-800-229-3000, the number to call in today to speak with Dr. Alice Benton and Dr. Jackie Mack Harris. Here is Eva in Augusta, Maine. Welcome to New Life Live, Eva.

Eva: Hi, thank you. I've got a question. Would it be wrong to send money monthly to a brother who I believe was codependent with my mom, and she has since passed? He was recently deported to Central America and is very poor, and the money that I would send would go a long way for him. He's totally ungrateful, and I get that. He's angry. I want to help. I don't know if this would be helping or hurting.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: So it sounds like you felt like he was maybe taking advantage or codependent with Mom. You want to honor what Mom would want for him and care for him while he's in this difficult situation. Also, he's angry and maybe being rude and disrespectful and feels very ungrateful. And yet there is something in you, some compassion and grace in you that makes you want to send something. Is that right?

Eva: Correct. That is correct. He is totally ungrateful. Whenever he calls, it's "I want, I want." Not "Please," "May I," and never a "Thank you."

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: So he's calling and demanding. What is he doing? Is there a way for him to take care of himself there?

Eva: No. He was deported to a place he hasn't been to in a long time. He's having a hard time making a go.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: I don't think it would be wrong. I think it could be helpful, but there is the danger of enabling somebody to continue in their learned helplessness. So you have to decide. You know the history. You know choices he's made over his life. You know what this anger and the demands are, how he treated your mom. So you have to decide based on what you're experiencing. I'm wondering if you're maybe feeling like you should help him but kind of are over it and don't want to continue to help him and maybe feel bad about that, like somehow that's wrong.

Eva: I'm looking at it like this. I spend money on coffee and McDonald's and just junk. Why not deprive myself and just send that to him instead? I can live without the extras.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: You can live without coffee? How? That is lovely. I have people in my family who had a tragedy, and since I can send $25 a week, I do while they're in college. When they graduate, the $25 a week will stop, but that's my way of trying to just be helpful in this season when I can. So if that's something you can do and you've thought through how it would affect you—and it sounds like it won't cost you much. It's going to be a sacrifice of coffee and maybe some sugary snacks—but it's actually something you'd be giving a gift. Maybe this is a way God wants you to serve right now. I just feel like you know the relationship, you know the experience, and there's a part of you that feels like he doesn't deserve this, but it's what God is calling me to.

Dr. Alice Benton: I'd have you ask yourself a few questions to evaluate: will this help benefit him in the long run, and will it help build his character and his ability to be a healthy, independent man as much as he's able to with whatever limitations he's been struggling with? Because the enabling that Jackie talks about, it's short-term help, but really allowing somebody a certain amount of suffering while providing the support that they need, that leads to better long-term character growth where they no longer need to depend on a person in an unhealthy way.

So there are a couple of ways to safeguard from enabling. First, you need to stay aware of whether or not you're becoming resentful and bitter because you're helping him like this. If he's staying immature because of the help he's receiving, and if you're becoming avoidant—avoidant of his phone calls, you don't want to send him the money, it's really hard to make yourself do it—those are all signs that this is becoming unhealthy giving.

I'd also have you consider leveraging the way that you help him because leverage can motivate people when they struggle with motivation. For instance, you might say, "I am willing to send you this amount of money if I hear that you're looking for work, if you can show me some proof of that, if you're getting help, if you're going to church. I need to see you making healthy choices in order for me to be able to come alongside and support you, too."

New Life: And similar to what Jackie said, maybe put a time limit on, like what you said with the person you knew in college that once you graduate, that $25 a week stops. So maybe let him know, "I'll do this for three more months, six more months," whatever. That might help too.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: And that's been helpful. It's coming alongside of them and supporting them in a way that I can. They don't work while they're in school, but they get really good grades and they do everything that they're supposed to do in school. So this is a way of helping them get to where it is they're moving towards.

Dr. Alice Benton: And it's okay to say, "I'm not willing to talk with you when you're being harsh and disrespectful. That doesn't work for me. When you're ready to be kind, call me back."

New Life: Eva, thanks for calling in today to New Life Live. We'll be back with more of your calls. 1-800-229-3000.

Today's podcast is brought to you by Club New Life supporters who give a monthly donation because they want to continue to offer help and hope in these very, very difficult places. To find out more about Club New Life, you can go to our website newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now if you're new to us, we drop an episode every weekday. We would love it if you would rate or write a review, which helps more people discover help and hope and helps us share wisdom with as many people as possible. Now let's listen to our counselors as they help people walk through life's hardest places.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Your financial gift helps provide counseling, workshops, radio programs, and digital resources that meet people where they are, helping them take their next step toward healing and hope. By giving today, you join us in standing beside those who need a hand to hold and a guide to show the way. You can give online at newlife.com, by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE, or by texting NLM to 28950. Thank you so much for whatever you can do. Your generosity changes lives. 1-800-229-3000, the number to call in today to speak with Drs. Jackie Mack Harris and Alice Benton. And now we're going to talk to Anna in Los Angeles. Welcome, Anna, to New Life Live.

Anna: Thank you so much for all you do. I've learned a lot from you. My favorite book is Safe People. I learned so much about that. My question is, I'm a Christian and I want to live a life that's as healthy as possible. My mom, when I was an adult, confessed or told me something that I was a product of SA. Ever since then, I didn't grow up with my dad. They never got married. I never really had a close relationship with him, and he was kind of nonchalant about it, too. It was more my grandmother wanting to get us close.

So I never really had a close relationship with him. When my mom revealed that to me, I completely lost any respect or care to even talk to him ever again. I don't know if that's healthy. I want to make sure I'm not putting on any responsibilities that don't belong to me. As a Christian, how should I approach that?

Dr. Alice Benton: What a high level of priority you put your faith on, that you would take such an awful, dark situation and wonder, "Am I right to pull back from this man?" Anna, what unsettling news to receive from your mom. How did you handle that when you were first told?

Anna: I was shocked and I asked her why did you wait so long to tell me, because I was 35 when she told me. She could have told me in my 20s. It was only after my grandmother passed away that she felt comfortable sharing this with me.

New Life: Was it his grandmother that was her mother or your father's mother?

Anna: My mom's mother. I wasn't close to my father's family at all.

Dr. Alice Benton: And your bio dad has never made significant attempts to reconcile, to have relationship, to admit wrongdoing.

Anna: Well, he doesn't know that I know. I haven't confronted him. I didn't think it was my place. I don't know. That's why I'm calling.

Dr. Alice Benton: And even so, he has not made strong attempts to be in relationship with you.

Anna: No. He lives in a different country. So, no, he hasn't.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: The question of if you are wrong to pull back, I think it's a great question because you're trying to figure out where is this coming from, why am I doing this. But it doesn't sound like you had much of a relationship with him before you received this news. Before you received the news, did you believe that you should be trying to have a relationship with him?

Anna: It wasn't in my heart. No.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: And so it's no more in your heart now than it was then. And he's not pursued right. It's much less. It's almost like, "Well, that door's closed. I don't have to worry about that anymore." But then there's the idea that somehow you're doing something wrong. Is it the "honor your mother and father" piece that you feel is the problem as a Christian?

Anna: Maybe. I don't know. I haven't really thought of it. It's more like, do I tell him that I know? Do I confront him? Is there anything good that's going to come out of that? Will he deny it? I don't know.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: Yeah, there's no way of knowing without asking him and those are fair expectations. I think the question is, do you want to confront him? There's no need to if you don't want that conversation. But if you have a desire to know if he could own it and if he feels remorse, then you won't be able to get over that without maybe asking him. But then, like you said, will he deny it? Does he even see it the way that she sees it?

Those are questions that I would recommend you walk through with a therapist. I think having somebody—this is something that I think you do need to process with a therapist. It's a shock to learn one that your mom experienced SA, but also that you're the product of that. That's a lot to take in at 35. I can see why she waited. She was protecting your grandmother. But you also have to work through your feelings about that, that your whole life you didn't know this part of her story and your story.

Anna: My other question is why did she tell me. I'm carrying this now.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: I think she told you because she's always wanted to tell you, but her mother didn't know. And so she couldn't tell you until her mother was gone. That's why I was asking was it her mother or his mother. My guess is it's been weighing on her heavily and her wanting you to know is needing you to understand how that relationship came to be. She didn't choose him, but she did choose you.

New Life: I see what Anna is saying, though. She could have just gone on the rest of her life and I would have never had to deal with this. Anna's probably thinking, "Why didn't you just keep this one a secret? I did not need to live with this."

Dr. Alice Benton: She did give you a burden that now, for this very reason, you have to decide what to do with it. It was laid in your lap. I think the best way to figure out what to do is keep asking God, "Lord, what do you want from me?" Your faith is already the thing that's guiding you. In a worldly way, it wouldn't make sense to contact this man.

In a spiritual way, God may have very good reason if He ever does ask you to contact him. It may be calling a sinner up. This man has apparently not done anything about a rape that resulted in a child. He is in his brokenness, deep in his brokenness. God sometimes sends the victim on a rescue mission to the perpetrator.

Now it's up to the perpetrator how he takes it and how he responds. But confronting your dad might also be part of your own healing process. But it only works if you're completely braced that it won't go well at all given his reaction. Meaning, the purpose of bringing this up to him might be for Anna's sake, for my sake. I need to confront this, I need to speak truth to my dad, and I need to tell him that I know. That could be very healing and therapeutic, but you're probably not going to get a good response because the character of this man shows him to be an avoider. He's probably going to deny it. Why would he admit it?

So keep asking God what do you want from me. He'll guide you in that direction. But like Jackie said, a counselor helps us discern God's will and it helps us tease out what are the obstacles within me that am I hearing God the right way. But the last part, Anna, is that as your mom gave you this burden and your dad gave it to her, your job is to keep cleaning your heart out of the justified bitterness and resentment that this was how your life began. That's tough work to do, but good therapeutic work can help you get to the point of someday being able to forgive what's totally unforgivable. This should never have happened to you.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: Anna, I wonder about your relationships, romantic relationships. Have things gone well over your life?

Anna: No, no. Growing up without a dad, that puts holes in your heart, and I didn't get to know God until later because of such a painful traumatic time that I went through life is how I came to know God. So now that after getting to know God and much counseling after that dark time that I found God. So no, it's never good when you don't grow up with your father.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: I was curious because sometimes, without even knowing the historical data, without knowing your mom's story, sometimes historical trauma plays out in our lives. It's passed down. I'm not even sure how Mom would have passed it down without telling you the story. However, I had an incident my daughter was sharing with me an incident she had with her daughter, my granddaughter, in which her granddaughter shared something that we often say and think, and we've never shared it with her. She's only eight.

So we were both like, "Wow, okay." So we teach and talk often about generational transmission of trauma. This is an opportunity for you to get well in this generation so it doesn't continue to be passed down to future generations. Thank you for doing the work.

New Life: Pick that up at newlife.com. We've also got a Healing Is a Choice 12-week course that I mentioned a little bit earlier, but that begins at the end of this month, January 29th. You can find out all about it at newlife.com. It's a 12-week online course, one hour a week, and I think it'll really put you on the path to healing, and so will the book Healing Is a Choice from the newlife.com store.

We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back with more of your questions. Randy, you'll be up next. My name is Bryant Perez here with Drs. Jackie Mack Harris and Alice Benton. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

It is not too late to sign up for Dr. Jackie Mack Harris's online webinar. It is happening tomorrow at 7:00 PM Central time. It's called Breaking Free from Depression: Tools to Reclaim Your Life. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, or stuck in a low place, you are not alone. You never are. Help is available. You can text the word WEBINAR to 28950 and you'll get a registration link and a tip sheet on depression. Jackie, looking forward to hearing you speak tomorrow night.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: Yeah, I'm looking forward to having everyone there and getting to share some tips on what depression is and how we can maneuver through it.

New Life: And if you've already got plans for tomorrow night, register anyway, because if you can't join us tomorrow, we'll send you a link where you can watch sometime in the next seven days or so. But again, text the word WEBINAR to 28950. We're coming to you. Alice is going to be making albondigas and she'll be bringing them too and I'll do the dishes afterwards. It'll be fun.

Okay, let's talk to Randy who's in Waco, Texas. Welcome, Randy, to New Life Live.

Randy: I have an eight-year-old granddaughter that is having anxiety so bad that they've had to put her on medicine. The story is she was over at her dad's Monday, and their way of watching the him and a girlfriend to give her a iPad where she got to watching something people saying there was no God, there wasn't no heaven and everybody's going to hell.

She gets home and starts talking to her mother about it and just freaks out because she says she don't want to go to hell because she hit her mother. I don't—how do I, what do I do? How can I talk to at least talk to her mother to help her?

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: You said that they put her on medication. Is she seeing a therapist?

Randy: Well, she was and apparently he wasn't helping her, so they're trying to find another one.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: Maybe we can help you find a therapist in that area for her.

Dr. Alice Benton: In the meantime, Randy, both you and your daughter can invite her into a comfort circle. That is just that structured format of drawing out her fear. "Hey, sweetheart, we know that you're afraid that everybody's going to hell. We think that we heard you say that you hit your mom, and so you're worried you're going to hell, too. Tell us about that. We want to hear from you."

We adults might be really quick to just try to correct this and shut it down. Like, "Come on, we know better than that. That's not true." But your granddaughter needs to be drawn out, heard, and understood. Ideally her mom will do that for her. But if her mom is unable or unwilling, you sound like the kind of grandpa that can stand in the gap and be the one to be an encouraging, comforting listener to her. That will help quell her fears over time.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: That's really what therapy is about. It's about being, coming alongside of someone and being a safe place for them to process their fears, their thoughts, their actions, the changes they might want to make. So it's not about telling her anything or having her do anything. It's just really you being able to draw her out and hear her story and validate. "Yeah, that's really hard," or "Oh, that sounds so scary. Tell us what feelings come up for you."

The comfort circle, you can find it online. You can also get the book How We Love Our Kids and that can help you walk through this and just give her a place where she can break down what's going on inside. People don't realize how often the anxiety is in not being able to talk about it. When we share it with someone, they tell us, "Oh, you're fine. It's no big deal." And so you're still left just holding this. When you can talk it out and talk about what it feels like and what it makes you think and what happens because of those feelings and what you wish was different, it makes a difference.

Dr. Alice Benton: Bringing her to a meeting with a pastor and any of her parents that are willing to be involved might also help that an authority figure could answer some of her questions, especially if there's a pastor you trust or that she trusts. This might sound outlandish, but a good therapist would be willing to try to get a family therapy session, even with the divorced parents and if they're dating—it sounds like—and the other people that have become involved. For the sake of the daughter, they might soften their hearts and be willing to come into a session together.

New Life: Randy, thanks for calling us today here on New Life Live. Let's go to Michelle in Colorado. What is your question for Drs. Alice Benton and Jackie Mack Harris?

Michelle: Well, I kind of have a little story and maybe they can help me at the end. At eight, I started drugs. I've been a drug addict for 51 years straight every day. Almost died July 30th of 2024. They said I wouldn't make it through the night. On the 7th of August, I got saved. Once I walked away, that was it. I live in a small town where there's drugs everywhere. I don't desire them. I read my Bible every day. I read three devotionals every day. I live in a house that's 150 years old, hasn't been painted since 1957. I've redone the whole inside.

Well, there's a question, and then I wanted to tell everybody there is a way out and His name is God. Because I couldn't get out. I could not get out of the drugs. At eight, I lived on the streets. So, I'm 60 now, and I'm scared to death of men. I go to church, there's a nice man here, and the more that he tries to get close to me, the more I walk away. I don't know if it's because I read the Bible so much that I know that you don't touch, you don't do things without getting married. I'm not sure if I want to go that far. I just, I live alone with no family but a dog.

Dr. Alice Benton: Michelle, you have been miraculously saved from a lifetime of substance use. I think you know that the sanctification work doesn't stop there because all that you were missing living on the street as an eight-year-old, all that you missed out in family of origin affects how well you're able to attach to people and relate to them. But that can be rebuilt. Both individual therapy and group therapy with other women are probably exactly what you need to help get clarity about do I want to date and how do I become a person that's ready to date.

Dr. Jackie Mack Harris: I agree. I think getting into a good Life Recovery Group and working with a counselor to help you work through your trauma. You have a life of trauma and addiction and there is something that happens when you get clean and sober, especially when it's a supernatural deliverance and God has saved you. You really did surrender. But now the fear is starting to get in the way of you living.

Working with a good Christian counselor can help you to talk about that fear, process it, bring it out, let's look at it, figure out what's true of it. Then having a support system of women who can maybe challenge you about whether or not this is the right guy or who can double-date with you so that you're not alone or group-date. Double-dating, let's bring that back. Triple-dating, all of it.

New Life: Michelle, God bless you. Thank you for calling in today. We've got another hour to go. 1-800-229-3000. So call.

Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.