New Life LIVE

Stinger Voice: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Hi friends, so good to have you watching and listening to New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and we'll be in the studio for two hours today. We would love to hear from you if you're tired of toxic relationships. Call us right now for help taking the first step toward safe and healthy relationships. 1-800-229-3000 is our number.

And we've got a very special guest on the show today, someone who doesn't get to join us that often. It's licensed professional counselor and co-presenter at our Intimacy in Marriage and Restore intensives, Laura Mangin-McDonald. Laura, good to have you on the show today. Hope your New Year has been happy so far.

Laura Mangin-McDonald: It has been great, and it is an honor to be here, Brian. I always love hanging out with you all when I can. Thank you.

Brian Perez: That's awesome. And joining us for these next two fantastic hours as well is the president of New Life Ministries. She's a licensed professional clinical counselor, Becky Brown. Becky, always nice to see you, too.

Becky Brown: It's great to be here. Laura and I go way back, and you're in for a great show today because we always have something to talk about. I've always got something on my mind. And today, "That's my story and I'm sticking to it."

How many times do we ever hear somebody say that this is exactly what they do, they have a story and they're sticking to it? We all have a story. When you meet somebody, you might say where do you live, what do you do for a living, all of those kinds of things, hobbies. And sometimes our stories get us stuck. Or it's part of who we become.

Even in your recovery, you may be thinking, "I'm always going to be stuck in this part of the story." You have a story, but it may not be the story. You may be quick to be stuck in the story and retell it over and over again. And so then that phrase would be, "That's my story and I'm stuck in it." There's power in the story that you tell yourself. And many times our story keeps us stuck because we haven't shared it, we keep it tucked away, and it's just what we think about what happened to us or what we're experiencing.

You've heard us talk about how recovery's for everyone, not just for if you're dealing with an addiction or a behavior or substance abuse. It's for those stuck places in your life. And we all get stuck sometimes. John 5 tells the story of the man by the pool, and Jesus asks him, "Do you want to get well?"

Now this man's story was he was stuck for 38 years. He couldn't get up, and he was real quick to tell Jesus people are getting in the way, and every time I try to get up, somebody gets in front of me. That was his stuck story. And Jesus, of course, tells him, "Get up, pick up, and walk. Get going."

So what's your stuck story? Could it be a relationship where you keep thinking, "If only the other person would," and then you can fill in the blank. Stop cheating, be honest, hear me, see me, treat me kindly. It could be, "I will never be able to," and then you can fill in that blank. Get over the loss, get free from addiction, recover from what happened to me.

Here at New Life, we've been helping people get unstuck for almost 40 years. And what I want to encourage you is if you have a stuck story in your head, God's not done. He's got a purpose and a plan and healing for your life. You can reach out today. We're here on the phone for a couple of hours. Maybe that's the first place that you get unstuck, that you pick up the phone and give us a call. Brian, how can they do that?

Brian Perez: They can do that, Becky, by calling 1-800-229-3000. And we're going to be in the studio for a couple of hours. We would love to hear from you as you call in and share your story so that we can show you how to get unstuck from your situation.

Becky Brown is with us, so is Laura Mangin-McDonald. She's written a couple of books that are best sellers in the newlife.com store. The Heart Handbook and How You Think Determines the Course of Your Life. They're both available in the newlife.com store. We'll talk to Becky and Laura in just a moment here on New Life Live.

Stinger Voice: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Want to say hello to my friend Mike, who this past weekend posted a praise report on Facebook celebrating 19 years clean and sober. Love you, brother, congratulations. Now, if you want to make 2026 the year you look back on and say that was the beginning of my healing, we can help you. At New Life, we walk with people through real pain toward real healing.

We have so much coming up to help you. Recovery groups, webinars, weekend workshops, and of course online courses. Much more too, just visit newlife.com for more information. One of those webinars that we've got coming up is actually tomorrow. If you've been feeling overwhelmed, exhausted, stuck in a low place, please know you are not alone. Help is available.

New Life is offering a faith-based webinar led by Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris this Thursday at 7:00 PM Central Time. "Break Free from Depression: Tools to Reclaim Your Life" is 90 minutes of real hope, including 60 minutes of Dr. Jackie and 30 minutes of Q&A so you can ask questions and get clarity. To learn more and receive a free tip sheet on depression, you can text the word "webinar" to 28950.

If you've already got plans for Thursday that you can't get out of, register anyway because you'll get a playback link that's good for about a week to watch when it's convenient. Becky Brown, you're going to be hosting tomorrow's webinar.

Becky Brown: I am going to be hosting. Speaking of places where people get stuck, depression is one of those places where it can mire you in the muck for years. Some of you are dealing or not dealing with depression and that's your stuck place. This webinar can be a great opportunity for you to learn more about what is keeping you stuck.

One thing I always like to share on our webinars, you're not going to see each other, so you're safe. Jackie will share, and she's an incredible communicator that will get to some of the nuts and bolts of why we get depressed. Many people deal with low-level depression and it affects every part of their life.

Maybe you have a loved one that is depressed or has been dealing with depression and you don't know what to do. This webinar can also give you some insight into what is going on with them and how you can be supportive. I hope to see you there.

Brian Perez: Just text the word "webinar" to 28950 and we'll send you a registration page, you can fill out the form there and get registered, and you'll get that free tip sheet on depression. But if you want to talk to Becky and Laura Mangin-McDonald, call in 1-800-229-3000. We're going to begin our time on the phones in Philadelphia with Grace, who's listening on WBYN. Welcome, Grace, to New Life Live.

Grace: Thank you for taking my call. I've been married about four years. I had some very strong Christian mentors in my life at the time and good support. I was pretty clearly advised that this didn't seem like it was a great situation to get into and potentially should walk away from the relationship. I chose not to listen, moved forward, got married, and I'm living the effects of the decision and lack of wisdom that I had.

Now if something can go wrong, it does. He has a lot of unresolved issues. He has children and it's been really difficult with that. He finds it hard to maintain employment and seems to have a lot of anger and just a lot of issues. So here I am, married, and just not sure how to do this day in and day out when it feels so wrong.

Brian Perez: Laura, what would you say to Grace?

Laura Mangin-McDonald: Grace, my first question would be, what have you done so far? Have you all made any attempts to bring in outside counsel? Clearly this is a pattern that is devastating. It sounds like you can't connect or communicate. What have you done so far?

Grace: We worked with our church pastor for quite a few months meeting with him and a little team at the church. It didn't really help very much, but it was nice to have some support.

Laura Mangin-McDonald: What I would highly recommend is that you get with a licensed therapist and especially someone who can work with you on attachment style. I'm sure that the people in your church love you and mean well, but if I need brain surgery or heart surgery, I'm going to go to a heart surgeon or brain surgeon who specializes in the issue that I need help with.

Often what happens in this type of setting is the behaviors are continually addressed. Forgive, be kind, have dates, and it's all well-meaning, but it is not going to heal the issue at the heart. This is an attachment issue.

Becky Brown: I also wonder, Grace, what was the prompting event where you called the pastor? I heard you started with, "People told me don't do this, warning, warning, Will Robinson." That's a throwback to Lost in Space. Sometimes we can get lost in our marriages though, right? At one point you said, "We've got to get help." What happened that made that decision?

Grace: There was a lot of stuff at that point. There was an issue with his child, a lot of false accusations that his child was saying against our home, and he had lost a job at the same time. At the same time, his anger started becoming more apparent, things that I had no idea about kind of popped up. We both went, but I think he was doing it to point the blame at some of the issues being on me. Once that became evident to the pastors that this is not really what we thought it was, they just recommended outside counseling.

Becky Brown: And did you do that, Grace?

Grace: A couple times, and it seems to not really ever go much further than a session or two.

Becky Brown: What happens? You go and then the counselor says, "Okay, you're done," or the two of you decide?

Grace: Usually him, but it just fizzles out. It's just unhealthy. We just both are—

Laura Mangin-McDonald: Here's the good news, Grace, is that the way each one of us, we're the common denominator in our life. So even though I can't prevent what may happen to me, what I can do is choose how I will respond to it. What would be very empowering for you is to do individual counseling, to begin there and find out what is in me that I minimized or wasn't looking out for myself.

Find out what is in me that drew me to this situation, and how can I have better self-care? Regardless, healing begins with us individually. We don't pass go or collect our $200 until we begin there. That's empowering, and that's hopeful. You can be empowered in this and be assertive and find out what's going on and that will reduce a lot of the chaos coming from him and the extended family.

Becky Brown: The other part about that too, Grace, is that you are feeling stuck right now. You started with, "Everybody told me not to, I did it anyway, and now what am I supposed to do?" You're not stuck. The hard part is thinking that he's going to be somebody different and that will fix everything. That's not going to be it either. We all have work to do.

This is not to beat up on him because obviously he's got issues. You said that. He's got unresolved issues. I, of course, would want to know what happened to the first wife or the mother of the children and all of those things are part of the story, but they're not the story. This is just another chapter, and we have to get moving forward. Grace, we can get you connected with somebody, but I agree with you, Laura, if the two of you came out to Intimacy in Marriage, it could change everything for you.

Laura Mangin-McDonald: People that are getting ready for divorce, that flips because of the information and experiences that they have there.

Grace: I think I've come to the realization that he's not going to change. This is what I just didn't see in the beginning. I'm seeing now, and I think this is actually him because like you said with the first wife, some of the things she told me about. It did become real. My whole thing is just what can I do? I don't necessarily feel we have biblical grounds for divorce, but I live in this absolute chaos and anger and dysfunction every day.

Becky Brown: Grace, here's the other part about that. Here's the news flash. Some of that is something that you have created room for. Now that sounds pretty harsh, but it's part of your own growth. Here's the other thing: he can change. He's not stuck. He's stuck right now, but he can change.

As we've said a thousand times over the years, if you're going through a struggle like this, you don't want to quit before you understand the whole picture because it could be the very thing that creates that connection that you really want. But you have nothing to lose.

Brian Perez: Grace, if you haven't read How We Love or Marc Cameron's book, Understanding Your Attachment Style, either one of those books will help you understand how this even happened, like what you just said, Laura. Sometimes we go into relationships or into jobs or into circumstances and we think, "How in the world did I miss this?" That's where the learning comes from, Grace.

There's hope and I know that you're not done. He is stuck, you're stuck, but you don't have to stay that way. Those two books are available in the newlife.com store and the Intimacy in Marriage intensive is happening next month, February 13th through the 15th in Orange County, California. The early bird discount ends January 30th. Laura is a co-presenter at the intensive. Becky's there too, J.J. West, it's great. Stay on the phone and we'll give you more information about all of those resources.

Let's take another call. Here is Paul in White Plains, Maryland. A friend told Paul about New Life Live. What's your friend's first name, Paul?

Paul: His name is Tyrone.

Brian Perez: Tyrone, thank you so much for telling Paul about New Life Live. Paul, how can we help you?

Paul: I've been married for almost 10 years now and there have been quite a bit of issues in my relationship with my spouse. I just got in an accident in October, a really bad car accident in which I almost lost my life. What led me to the accident was some problems that I was going through with my wife and allowed me to go out and have a drink that night and I fell asleep behind the wheel and almost lost my life.

As I've been in and out of hospitals and rehab facilities for the last three months, I am now in a position where I'm back at home and I have reason to believe that my wife is cheating on me as I walked in the bedroom on her day before yesterday and she was talking to another man on the phone. It's someone who I've long suspected her cheating with. She's very disrespectful. There's been a lot of mental and physical abuse against me. I just want to know which ways I should go. Is there grounds for divorce? I really don't want to give up on my marriage, but I've been put into a situation where I've been left hanging and she doesn't care anymore. She checked out and I just don't want to be sitting there in limbo.

Becky Brown: I'm so sorry, Paul. It's hard.

Brian Perez: Yeah, and we're glad that you called in today to New Life Live because we're definitely going to put you on the right path to the next step that you need to take. The first step you took is to call us today and that's great. We'll continue the conversation with you when we come back here on New Life Live with Becky Brown and Laura Mangin-McDonald. We're in the studio for two hours today. Call in, there are still lines open, 1-800-229-3000.

Stinger Voice: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Let's go back to Paul in Maryland. You still with us, Paul?

Paul: Yes, I'm here.

Brian Perez: All these buttons in front of me, I forget to push them sometimes. Laura, what were you saying to Paul just before the break?

Laura Mangin-McDonald: To reiterate what Becky was saying, no matter what we've been through, the first step is we've got to heal ourselves. He must put his oxygen mask on first. Because of his tendency to medicate his pain, which is legit, he needs to begin to understand how he goes to people. I would suspect that there's a history of him being alone, trying to figure out these horrible things of betrayal and then going to drugs to medicate. Does that make sense, Paul?

Paul: Yes, it does, but I've taken care of that. I no longer use marijuana, I no longer drink alcohol anymore. I don't have a desire for it and I made up in my mind that I'm not going there anymore because I realized doing some self-assessment that I was using those things to cope and I've found the Lord. I have no need for that anymore.

Becky Brown: Right. But here's what I want to tell you, Paul. It's okay to have Jesus and a therapist too. Especially because it is a new journey for you. We don't know how this is going to end. I think one of your questions was, "What do I do here?" The first thing is your self-care, but also the breakdown in the communication with you and your wife started a long time ago. How long have you guys been married?

Paul: We've been married for almost 10 years.

Becky Brown: And you share work together, right?

Paul: Yes.

Becky Brown: So you're with each other, but you may not have a connection. And then you mention that you're not sleeping together. There's this unspoken distance between the two of you and we need to understand where that started. This is what you would do in therapy is you'd figure out what happened to me, how are we this disconnected. This is something that we talk about at our Intimacy in Marriage intensive all the time because people get stuck and this is wounding to you, Paul. This is devastating.

Paul: It's not that we haven't had sex in seven or eight years. I haven't slept in the same room with her in about that long because I have sleep apnea. I snore really loud. I know that that does play a part, but that separation also has allowed her to do other things as well.

Becky Brown: Right. And if you're close, those other things don't occur because she knows how you would feel if she broke your heart, which is what she's done. What happens in couples is there becomes this space where we are not aware of the other's existence. We just get focused on our own thoughts and feelings, not paying attention to who we are married to.

Laura Mangin-McDonald: And especially if we haven't been taught emotional intimacy, how to connect with ourselves and connect with others, which is what we get into in depth, our core patterns of relating at Intimacy in Marriage. How can we know what we don't know? This is where people try really hard, but trying harder doesn't resolve our unresolved issues inside of our heart. We need mentors, we need guides, we need to be taught how to deal with this and that's why Proverbs says, "Seek wise counsel." Is that helpful, Paul?

Paul: It is. This is why I'm reaching out because what you're saying—you're hitting everything right on the head. I really do feel like my wife does not know how to love as every time that I pour my heart out to her and express myself to her, she does not care at all. She has no interest.

She's already said even after I caught her on the phone with the gentleman she sent me a text. I think she was trying to send it to someone else, but she was like, "Ooh, he's really hot," and then she kind of covered it up, but then she just acted like she didn't care. She said this marriage is over and, "I told you I could be friends with whoever I want to be friends with." She knows that I don't want her conversing with this gentleman in particular. She knows this. I've expressed it so many times.

Becky Brown: But Paul, one time is enough. A lot of times what happens in couples where there's betrayal, you're seeing these conversations and you can make it make sense on one level. He's a customer, we have a mutual connection. But then something doesn't sit right. If it doesn't sit right with one of the spouses, it's not going to be part of the marriage.

As a couple we don't want anything to come in between us. Now her response is telling me more about her frame of mind. If she's saying that she doesn't care, it may be that she's so shut down, Paul, that she doesn't want to care. I just think a lot of times when you're in the middle of that, people will shut down because they can't risk feeling your hurt and your pain. They're going to say, "I don't care, do whatever you want, I don't want to be married." They kick it out that way.

Laura Mangin-McDonald: She could be more avoidant, Becky, having that avoidant attachment and really not know how to connect. That's not excusing her behavior in any way, Paul. We totally get your heart and what you're saying here. It's all legit. But that's for her to work on.

For sure, you can work on having someone to help you establish these healthy boundaries and go zero tolerance for any type of betrayal in the marriage. It is simply not okay. We want to be the safest person for our spouse. In this situation for you, the healing has to be to reestablish safety and connection. Most couples when we get married, we're just attracted to each other and that's where it starts. It's in the ongoing relationship where we really learn those intimate connections that we can have physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally.

Becky Brown: I want to suggest you get a copy of How We Love from our New Life store or even Sherry's book, Intimate Deception. I also think even though she's written that from a woman's standpoint, betrayal is betrayal and it hurts and it does impact you.

Brian Perez: We do have a webinar next month on betrayal that Laura Mangin-McDonald is going to be presenting. Also Intimacy in Marriage, that's happening next month too, February 13th through the 15th in Orange County, California. Laura, you're one of the co-presenters there. How does this intensive help couples whether they're newlyweds, oldyweds, or somewhere in between?

Laura Mangin-McDonald: It is an incredible three-day immersive process where we just don't know what we don't know. J.J. and I go into how our histories collide. Every nanosecond of life comes with us when we marry, the ones we remember and don't remember, but they're inside of us and that's our operating system. J.J. goes into the attachment styles and then together we go into how do we relate to each other in a healthy way because we come in trying our best but we just don't know.

If we have not been taught this—the latest stats I think Harvard did showed that only 20% of the population has emotional intelligence, which is kind of scary. But meaning were taught emotional intimacy, being self-aware, being able to articulate our feelings and all of that. We go into all of that extensively. The biggest, most robust part of it is J.J. and I have a combo with the audience about sex and what does God say, what are the real issues that come up. I would say the highlight of this weekend is we present from the platform but where the real wheels are put on is they go into group therapy and practice these things.

Brian Perez: You can get all the details about the Intimacy in Marriage intensive on our website newlife.com or call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. It begins one month from today, Valentine's Day weekend in Orange County, California. So come on out. This is for couples, for engaged couples as well, no matter how long you've been married.

Even if you think your marriage is doing pretty good, it's good to come to this intensive to get a tune-up in the same way that you bring your car to the shop every few months for a tune-up. That's what this is for.

Stinger Voice: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: You're joining in what God is doing through New Life Live and New Life Ministries when you make a gift of any size. Becky Brown, president of New Life Ministries, 2025 was another fruitful year of ministry here, and 2026 can be as well, right?

Becky Brown: Yes, I know that God is doing a great work through New Life and I want to invite all of you who are listening or who have been helped by New Life and you haven't yet given to support the ministry, today's the day. We did finish the year strong, but there is so much more work to do.

What does the Bible say? The harvest is plenty, the workers are few. Well, I would say the harvest is plenty and the finances are few. It's not because we're not making every dollar go as far as it can go. But if you've listened to the news, if you've talked to your neighbor or even somebody at church, you know people are struggling.

At New Life we want to continue to offer godly, Christian, professional counseling. Those are the things that we do. This isn't just our opinion, this is the training that we have, the call on our life to help people in life's hardest places and I want you to be part of what God is doing. You can give today. We look forward to you being part of what God's doing through New Life.

Brian Perez: Your generosity changes lives here at New Life. You can give online at newlife.com or you can call 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text NLM to 28950 and we are so grateful that you come alongside us. Really quick follow-up question here before we get to our next call. When we were talking to Paul and he was talking about the sleep apnea that has caused him and his wife to sleep in separate bedrooms, is that a warning sign when you hear that couples have separate bedrooms?

Becky Brown: My first thing is if there's a story that goes along with it. Because a lot of people their sleeping habits are impaired. Matter of fact, I've seen in some new homes they actually create a snoring room. So just the fact that you're sleeping together or not sleeping together as a couple is not the temperature gauge in and of itself. It is the story that goes with that. So let's say you're like in Paul's story, they're sleeping in separate rooms, he's got sleep apnea, and they're not connecting. See, there's a bigger story there.

Laura Mangin-McDonald: And we go into all of that at Intimacy in Marriage.

Brian Perez: All right, perfect. We'll talk about that. But right now, here is Carol in San Francisco listening on SiriusXM Channel 131. Hey Carol, thanks for calling in today.

Carol: Hi, thank you for all you do. My question is, how do I learn how to trust my current husband? My first husband I was married to for 13 years, he was highly addicted to porn and it just absolutely destroyed who I was and that is the reason we ended up getting divorced. I really, really thought that my second husband was not like that, he didn't look at other women.

11 years into our marriage, I caught him and that was a couple years ago now. I struggle with wanting to look at his computer and wanting to look at his phone and I know that would send me into orbit. I just don't think he is, but I don't know how to completely trust again.

Laura Mangin-McDonald: Carol, I am just so sorry. I want to tell you that your response is biological. God created our nervous system to detect and pick up danger. In fact, our body knows what our mind can't comprehend. Given the reality of a history of your former husband, that trauma gets traumatic and that trauma I would pretty much bet everything is still stuck inside your nervous system and then to have a repeat of that trauma has just sent you hanging on the edge of the cliff.

One, you have a right to look, that's protecting yourself. I wouldn't do that alone, I would have—you need a team around you, friends you can trust, friends that can walk with you because that information, the reality of seeing that information, is devastating and will blow you up. At the same time, I would also ask you what a horrible place to be. "Is he, is he not?"

That's just always—if the enemy can't take us to hell, he wants to throw us up against hell's door and that's hell's door, that's just wrecking your nervous system every day. I would ask you to believe yourself and then let's come up with a plan of action. Again, I know Becky and I continue to say get with a trauma-informed therapist. A trauma-informed therapist is the specialist who's been trained to walk you through betrayal, to tell you what to do logistically, what's going on in your body, and how to formulate a plan to protect you and ultimately, if the husband participates, to restore the marriage. How do you feel about that?

Carol: I know that he deeply loves me. I just know this evil of pornography and I know how it takes a hold of men and I know Satan. He does not want me to be in a happy Christian marriage and because of those things, I just don't trust Satan to not bring him there again.

Becky Brown: Carol, here's the challenge that you have is at the beginning of the hour I was talking about the stories that we tell ourselves and the stuck places that it gets us. You're stuck right now. You're stuck between, "I know something's wrong," "I know he loves me," "I don't want to look," and the PTSD literally from the previous marriage.

What I would get in with a counselor, not to villainize your current husband because of your past husband, but to get to the truth. If your current husband loves you, you will have the safety to be able to say to him, "Honey, because of what happened, because I caught you and because of my history, we've got to get some help because otherwise you're not safe to me, I'm not safe to me, this is not the way that I want us to go the next 20 years."

Those conversations are where you're just sharing with each other about where you are. I imagine, Carol, that that has been shut down for you because now you're on high alert and like Laura said, your body is speaking for you. I would get a copy again of Dr. Sheri Keffer's book, Intimate Deception, and I would get connected with a therapist. I may even recommend that your husband go to Every Man's Battle. Not because we think he's awful, but we've helped so many men understand why they use pornography or why they go outside of their marriage, to understand that they are called to be the man that God wants them to be. But Carol, that's the way forward. We don't want you to be stuck.

Laura Mangin-McDonald: Carol, remember stopping a behavior doesn't stop the problem. Even if he were to stop—and pornography is not a sexual issue, it's an intimacy issue. Just like when we were talking to Paul, we go to it to soothe us, to take place of what's a relationship we don't know how to get in the relationship or execute. Even if he were to stop, Carol, stopping the behavior doesn't stop the problem. I would still recommend that he go to Every Man's Battle.

Becky Brown: We've got one coming up. When is it, Brian? This weekend?

Brian Perez: It is the weekend of January 23rd in Orange County, California. He should definitely go to that. And then you, Carol, should attend the Restore: Healing After Betrayal intensive. That is in March in Dallas. We can get you all the details when you stay on hold. We're going to be in the studio for another hour. Call in to New Life Live.

Stinger Voice: Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.