New Life LIVE

New Life (Narrator): Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Hey, welcome to New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and I'm not sure what day today is. Mark Cameron's in the studio, and he's always here on Mondays, usually. And then Jill Hubbard's here, though she's normally not here on Mondays. She's on Tuesday. Yeah, so it's Monday, though, right?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: It is Monday. I felt it this morning.

Brian Perez: Okay, it's Monday. Happy Monday. Wonderful. Yes, that's true. You kind of feel it, and you know that it's Monday. Well, welcome to the program. I'm Brian Perez, here with Mark Cameron and Dr. Jill Hubbard. We're going to be in the studio for two hours today. So give us a call at 1-800-229-3000. Mark, what's on your mind to start us off?

Mark Cameron: Today I want to talk about blind spots, and I want to start with a simple question: how do we handle feedback? Now, most people would agree with this statement: "I am not right 100% of the time." But we tend to act like we are. That's because we don't know what we're wrong about until someone points it out to us. And so we live like we are right about everything.

But that's because we need to justify our actions to continue doing them. But when we do that, that creates blind spots. We all have them, and we won't notice them until someone does point them out to us. But many of us also then will resist the feedback when somebody does point it out to us. We can be defensive, we can explain, we can be guarded.

Becoming defensive is natural if somebody is critical to us. If we feel like we're being attacked—and worse if somebody points something out with shame and humiliation—it's natural for us to defend ourselves. But here's the problem: even if somebody doesn't point something out in a loving way, if it's true and we are defensive and we reject that, we're going to miss out on growth. Because we can't change things about ourselves that we're unaware of or that we refuse to admit.

For a long time, I was very defensive. I was very resistant to feedback. Anytime someone offered that to me, I would explain, I would defend myself, I would argue my case. And I did that so well that people jokingly, or maybe not so jokingly, would say to me, "You should be a lawyer." And in my pride, I mistakenly took that as a compliment.

But the turning point came when a close friend of mine, Robert is his name, and he actually is a lawyer—he works for the DA's office—he called me out one day in front of my family. And he got so frustrated with me arguing my case, he said, "Mark, I can't even argue with you." Now, that doesn't sound that dramatic, but Robert, even though he's a prosecutor and he works for the DA's office, he's a recovering people pleaser. And so confronting other people, confronting his friends in that way, is not really in his lane.

And he actually hates it when I tell this story, and I still text him every time I do, because it's such a key moment in my healing journey that I don't want to forget it. And because in that moment, I had the choice: would I get angry at my friend whom my family loves, or would I allow his feedback to reach me?

Proverbs 27:6 says, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend." And that day, Robert's honesty, it wounded my pride, but it began a process of healing in my heart. It exposed the blind spot, and instead of defending myself, I finally admitted what was true.

Now, here's the truth: if we don't hold ourselves accountable, others have to step up and take up that mantle in our lives. And accountability chosen is usually more likely to lead to transformation than accountability imposed upon us. So if we truly want to know our blind spots, we've got to build in that mechanism for receiving feedback. Otherwise, we'll only hear about it when someone's upset at us, and then we'll be less likely to be receptive at that point.

So the people closest to us—our spouses, our friends, our family—they've got the most accurate view of us. And when we invite their perspective, it's more likely to be offered with care. Because true intimacy allows for honest feedback without criticism and for hearing it without defensiveness. And so if you tend to get defensive like I do, just try saying at first, "Let me think about that." And then actually progress, learn to ask those around you, "What's it like to be on the outside of me?" Because awareness leads to freedom and freedom leads to new life.

Brian Perez: That is awesome. Give us a call if you've got any thoughts on what Mark just said, or maybe you're a recovering people pleaser or someone who doesn't take criticism too well. Or maybe you love criticizing other people, and other people are criticizing you about that because they're like, "You know what? Chill out." Give us a call here at New Life Live.

New Life (Narrator): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: And let's go right to the phones. Did I mention we're going to be in the studio for two hours today? 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call. And we're speaking now with Grace in Hartford, Connecticut, who listens to New Life Live on a podcast. Hi there, Grace. Thanks for calling in today.

Grace: Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Brian Perez: Of course. How can we help you?

Grace: So I guess I'm looking for a little bit of guidance. I've been married for 10 years, but I've been with my husband for about 13. It has been a very long 12-plus year journey of him battling a pornography addiction. And it has recently climaxed to the worst it's ever been with him confessing having issues with voyeurism and also confessing that he had on many occasions gone to massage parlors late at night, and the not-good kind of massage parlors.

And I guess I'm just looking for a little bit of guidance right now. We have two small children, and I don't exactly know how to proceed. I've obviously had 13 years of trauma dealing with it, and this newest confession just has kind of thrown me over the edge of realization that he is not going to be getting better. And I want to protect our children and I need help with how to heal from all of my own trauma from it all.

Brian Perez: So you've known from the beginning, even before you guys were married?

Grace: Yes. Unfortunately, I was very young, my early 19, 20s. And looking back, there's a lot of regret of just not realizing the significance of what he had confessed to me back then. He was always very shameful of it and seemingly wanting to get free from it. And his faith in God made me feel like he could get better and he could get over it.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Grace, I'm so sorry for all that you have been through. And of course, back then you loved him. You loved him then. And at 19 years old, we are all hopeful and idealistic. And just like you said, having faith that this will be something that he can move through. And I think people often have the myth that once I get married, it will arrest the problem. Right? So I'm sorry I cut you off. What were you going to say?

Grace: No, that's okay. I had just been hopeful that we could work through it and that he could find help. When he had confessed to me we were engaged, and we had already paid for all of our wedding, so I was feeling a bit of pressure from that, too. And so he had been seeing a therapist early on. And so I guess over the years, it never went away and he never wanted to talk about it unless I brought it up. So there'd be periods of time where I didn't want to ask about it because I didn't want to be devastated because I knew the answer was going to be bad. And so obviously, it just got worse and worse and worse.

Mark Cameron: Grace, I'm sorry this has happened to you. How did you find out about these recent confessions? You said recently you found out about massage parlors and voyeurism. How did you find out about that? Did he confess? Did you discover something?

Grace: So funny enough, we had gone to our pastor because I had brought up the conversation of, okay, how have you been doing with your struggle with pornography? And he said, "Well, not well." And I had just kind of had it. So I was like, we need to go to our pastor. We need to seek out more help. We need to elevate this.

And so we were in our first counseling session with our pastor and he had addressed my husband and said, "You know, we can't go further unless we know everything is out on the table." And so that is when my husband decided to share that detail. And the stinging part is that I had asked him many times over the last year while this had been going on, "Is there anything else you have to confess to me? Is this everything that's been going on?" And he would tell me yes. And so obviously, that was even more of a lie because it wasn't just the pornography that he was dealing with; he's doing this other thing.

Mark Cameron: And what's he been willing to do? What are the efforts that he has made?

Grace: So far, I asked him to leave the home because I couldn't be near him. It was too painful. So he was willing to stay with a family member for however long that I needed to have this space from him. He has seen our children every day, but I personally just can't have him in the home. So he's done that. He's also been meeting with people at our church who have been trying to work with him and see him through it. He's always kind of struggled with the idea of fasting and really praying. I think that they're trying to address that with him to see if that could also help, but I've not really been involved in their counseling with him, so I don't know the extent of that yet.

Mark Cameron: And what's your question for us, Grace?

Grace: Well, I guess, do you have any suggestions of how as far as going forward, like what I could do to heal trauma for myself? And how I just guess I'm feeling a little aimless in at this point. Should I leave him? Is there hope? I'm struggling with how I can proceed.

Mark Cameron: There's always hope if people are willing to do the work. And that's key. Now, I'm glad your pastor asked your husband in front of you to get all of this out on the table. And so he did confess. The problem with that is when somebody's not prepared to confess and they get put on the spot, they may give just only some of the details. And I've seen that happen myself in therapy.

And so usually when a couple comes to me in a situation like yours, I talk about that it's important that somebody confess. And often I say you don't have to do it right now. And what I want to do is I want to work with you—and I say this to the unfaithful person—what we're going to do is we're going to write out a full therapeutic disclosure.

That way the person gets to think about everything, they get to write it out in a non-blaming way, and I coach them through the different things that they should be confessing. They should be talking about how much money they spent on something, who else might know about the affair or the addiction, what were some of the major lies. If they said, "Oh, I was going over here" and I didn't really go over there. And I work with them.

Because oftentimes when somebody does get something out, they kind of do the drip method where they just give a little bit at a time, thinking it'll be easier for the person to manage if it just comes in spoonfuls like this. But the problem with that is the betrayed person never knows when it's going to end. And it's almost like death by a thousand papercuts.

And so recovery doesn't start in discovery; it actually starts in disclosure. So the very first thing he would need to do, I would recommend, is to work with a therapist or work with your pastor if you trust that person has the experience to write out this full therapeutic disclosure.

And this is an addiction. So it really needs to be handled with recovery principles. He needs to be the one holding himself accountable, not you holding him accountable. So he needs to have an openness with transparency whereas you seem like you were the one going to him and saying, "Hey, how are you doing with this?" And then he would just say, "Oh, okay" or only give you a little bit.

Where he needs to be the one coming to you on a daily basis telling you how he's managing things, being open to letting you know if he's relapsed or if he's struggling. Now, that's going to be difficult for you to hear about that because naturally you're going to be angry. But that's part of the healing and recovery from betrayal too, is him being able to hold on to your anger.

So you've really got both of these recoveries here. You've got your recovery and you've got his recovery. And your relationship can't recover until you both enter into that recovery process.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right, and that means him really buying into recovery and embracing that for himself, not just because, Grace, he got caught and he's in trouble. And so what I'm hearing in your journey so far, great that he was going to therapy, and I love that people go to therapy, but it sounds like he was still doing kind of quasi-healing in isolation. He could go tell the therapist, but there wasn't any, like Mark was talking about, disclosure to you, no confession part.

Or meeting with the pastor and all of the spiritual interventions are very important, but I think it takes multiple types of interventions to really help the person through this journey. And Grace, if you've listened for any time, you know that our ministry deals with sexual integrity issues and we've developed programs that help aid in that journey, starting with our book "Every Man's Battle," our podcast, and our workshop. And then we also have a workshop for those like you who have been hurt by this. So I think a process of the therapy, the spiritual interventions, group work—and there are lots of recovery type groups, 12-step groups that also can help in this process—and then attending "Every Man's Battle" for him, where he'll really get a full understanding of what's fueling this.

Because poor guy—I say that a little bit lightly—but he's been dealing with this forever and thinking he could figure it out on his own and all that shame. And then you, feeling so deceived by someone that kept trying to deal with their pain all by themselves. That's horrible for you as a wife. So for him to really be free from this, I think he's got to do everything possible to attack the problem.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, and the last thing I'd add here, Grace, is that his recovery shouldn't be vague. You should know exactly what he's doing. And actually, you should be able to be introduced to the people who are helping him. Who's his sponsor? Who's his therapist? You should be able to know and trust those people.

And there should also be a 24-hour disclosure period put in place where if he does relapse—relapse unfortunately is often part of recovery—but if we do relapse, we need to understand why we relapse and we need to build an accountability plan in that. And that's what the 24-hour disclosure period puts in. So yeah, I think we've got a lot of resources for you.

Brian Perez: We've got so many resources that just go to NewLife.com because I'm afraid I'm going to forget them all if I try to name them off right now. But a couple that Dr. Jill Hubbard mentioned: the "Every Man's Battle" book. We've also got books for you, Grace, in the NewLife.com store. There's the one called "Intimate Deception" from our friend Sheri Keffer. Also "Rescued" from Shelley Martinkus. We've also got "Worthy of Her Trust."

"Restore: Healing After Betrayal," that's an intensive that you would want to attend. The next one is in March in Dallas. You can get the details at NewLife.com. And today is the day that a new episode of the "Every Man's Battle" podcast hit wherever you get your podcasts or at NewLife.com. You'll find it on YouTube as well, or the New Life app. The episode that dropped today is called "The Role of Empathy in Sexual Integrity Recovery." So we suggest you let your husband know about this, and he can also attend the "Every Man's Battle" intensive. That's happening in Orange County next weekend, January 23rd, but it's not too late to sign up for that. You can get the details at NewLife.com. So many resources there in the NewLife.com store, New Life website, so check those out.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Can I just add one more thing? Grace, you asked about for your journey too. It is a journey separate from your husband's. And so having people around you, you getting into therapy, attending some of these groups, I think is important for this season.

Brian Perez: For sure. Grace, thanks for calling us today. And everybody watching and listening, please be in prayer for Grace and her husband and their two young children. We'll be back. Bob, you're next on New Life Live.

New Life (Narrator): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Listen to this little bit of trivia that I got recently. Most people give up on New Year's resolutions by the second Friday in January. That was last Friday, the 9th. They call it "Quitter's Day." Not "Quilter's Day." "Quitter's Day." Unless they're trying to quit quilting. Never mind. Anyway, Quitter's Day.

Many people even quit sooner than the second Friday in January. Some research shows 80% falling by mid-January or within the first month due to overly ambitious, poorly planned, or non-specific goals. While some abandon their resolutions within the first week, others last a few months, but overall success rates are low with a significant drop-off happening quickly after the New Year begins.

So let me ask you: how are you doing with your New Year's resolutions? And the one we hear all the time is about getting in shape or losing weight. So if you're struggling with your vow to lose weight, we have a course coming up that can help even if you've already fallen off the wagon.

The "Lose It For Life" online course begins January 29th. It's a 12-week online course led by a counselor that meets one hour per week on Zoom and provides small group community for encouragement, connection, and accountability. This course focuses on spiritual and emotional healing, not just physical change, providing a supportive, faith-based community for accountability and avoiding promises of rapid weight loss or magic solutions. It helps you understand the root factors driving your eating habits.

You can get all the details about this course and the other two that also begin on January 29th at NewLife.com. Those two courses are called "Healing Is A Choice" and "Take Your Life Back" and the one that I was just highlighting right now, "Lose It For Life." All the details at NewLife.com. Let's go back to the phones now. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to reach Mark and Jill in the studio. And here is Bob in Buffalo, who is listening on SiriusXM channel 131. Hey there, Bob. Thanks for calling in.

Bob: Oh, thank you. I'm going to deflect a little from where I was going to go. I'm kind of wondering if I'm not married to Grace because I kind of had the same situation with her. I went through "Every Man's Battle" about three years ago with JJ. In fact, I believe it was his first seminar that he did. And I'll tell you what, I learned a lot about myself and I'm hoping that her husband goes because he will learn a lot about himself.

I also recommend on a side note that she may listen to the "Every Man's Battle" podcast because it will kind of give her an idea what we as males are going through. Just my input on that. But my problem is I've finally come to the conclusion, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm married to a narcissist. I can never do anything right even by going to "Every Man's Battle." I always got criticized: "Well, what did you learn? Why do you still have this addiction?"

Going to "Every Man's Battle" doesn't get rid of the addiction. It's not like a light switch that you just flip off. There's a lot of triggers that will always be there. I have been clean for about three years. I went in March of 23. But everything I do around the house is just wrong. We make decisions together and, like for remodeling a house, the contractor comes in, he knows exactly what we decided on. I come home—because I'm an over-the-road truck driver—I come home and it's done totally different because she changed it because she didn't like it. I just don't know what to do. She's got to have command and control of everything. And I just, my hands are just kind of tied. I don't know what to do.

Mark Cameron: Well, just the fact that you get criticized doesn't necessarily mean your wife is a narcissist, although it is problematic, Bob. What do you know about your wife's childhood history? Was she told that she was wrong growing up by a parent, or did she get her own way? What do you know?

Bob: She pretty much got her own way. She is one of 11 children. She's about number eight. Now, the other problem was she's got to be the center of attention to any gatherings. A lot of my friends say they'll talk to me a couple weeks after like 4th of July gathering or Thanksgiving or whatever. I'm welcome to come back, but leave my wife at home because she's got to talk herself up onto the podium. She gets on her soapbox and she just can't let it go. She's got to be right about everything.

Mark Cameron: It sounds like it's difficult for you to provide feedback to her. If you were to point some of these things out, she'd be resistant.

Bob: Yes, it'll go from a fight in zero to six seconds. It would be a full-out blown-out verbal fight.

Mark Cameron: Does she have anyone else who does point these things out to her?

Bob: Yeah, actually she talks to our contractor and his wife and they both agree with me that she's a narcissist.

Mark Cameron: But do they give her feedback? Do they push back?

Bob: Not really. They're probably afraid to in case she blows up at them too.

Brian Perez: So what about friends? Yeah, we'll find out from Bob when we come back here on New Life Live because it is time for us to take our break. We're waiting to talk to you as well. We're going to be in the studio for two hours, so call in.

New Life (Narrator): Today's podcast is brought to you by Club New Life supporters who give a monthly donation because they want to continue to offer help and hope in these very, very difficult places. To find out more about Club New Life, you can go to our website NewLife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now if you're new to us, we drop an episode every weekday. We would love it if you would rate or write a review, which helps more people discover help and hope and helps us share wisdom with as many people as possible. Now let's listen to our counselors as they help people walk through life's hardest places.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: All right, let's go back to Bob in Buffalo. Tony, Miguel, Carol, everyone else calling in, we will get to you guys. We're going to be in the studio for two hours today, so we can talk to all of you for sure. Just don't hang up. And we've got some open lines as well. So call in: 1-800-229-3000. So Bob, we asked you about if your wife has anybody else to speak with, to talk to about these things, or that speak to her. Like friends, for example.

Mark Cameron: Well, we were just curious: does anybody push back on your wife and how does she manage that? Does she have siblings? Do you have adult kids who might get upset and say something? Is there anyone?

Bob: Well, I've talked to a couple of her children and they just asked to be left out of it, which out of respect I understand that and I get that.

Mark Cameron: You're asking them to get involved in your marriage? Is that what you're saying? Because the question we're asking is: do people push back on her for any reason? Not about your marriage, just in relationship with her.

Bob: They do push back a little bit. They stick up for me big time. Like this weekend we finally got to celebrate Christmas because over Christmas all of us were sick. When we celebrated Christmas, we were at a meal and I asked a question: "Can you bring me a roll?" And she literally got downright nasty. And the two kids stood up for me and said, "He asked you very politely."

Mark Cameron: And do you stick up for you, Bob?

Bob: Yes, I do to a point. And then I finally get to that breaking point and then I walk away. I just can't handle it. I don't want to just—

Mark Cameron: What boundaries have you put in place, or are you considering putting in place?

Bob: I don't really know. Because I do care about her a lot and I know she's got a lot of medical issues and stuff. She's got a degenerative back disease and heart issues. So I don't want to push—

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So Bob, it sounds like everybody is just trying to figure out how to tiptoe around her and almost get away from her. Which, how sad. And I wonder, growing up in a family of 11 kids and you're number eight, it sounds like maybe you get lost in the crowd and yet because of that, she kind of got some unmerited favor where she got what she wanted. Do you ever talk to her about why she's so angry?

Bob: Yes, when she found out about my porn addiction and then like I said, I went to "Every Man's Battle." We had a hard time getting through that, but we did get through that. I did ask her to go to "Restore" because in "Every Man's Battle," we hear about the "Restore" and that we're kind of supposed to offer it to them to help them get a better understanding. I offered that to her and her remark was pretty much to the tone of: "I don't need anybody's counseling. I'm a strong girl. I can take care of it myself."

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So, "I don't need anybody's help." And so it comes out where she really does push a lot of people away in her self-sufficiency.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, I think for you, Bob, you need to have a balance of empathy and boundaries here. I mean, understanding why she gets angry, or the hurt, because underneath anger is fear, shame, or hurt. But then also to be able to hold boundaries. There's a good communication technique called "DEAR communication," and it's an acronym. DEAR stands for Describe, Empathize, Assert, and Reinforce.

And it's a process to follow as you speak to someone. And so when somebody says something mean or hurtful to you, you just describe the situation that was happening. So in that situation, you would talk about: "I just asked you for a roll, and then you just snapped and was rude at me." And then you empathize with her view: "I can understand why it's bothersome for you to have to go over there and get me a roll."

But then you assert your perspective: "I think it's reasonable that I could ask you for that." And then you reinforce what you're willing to do: "If you're going to continue to say mean words, I'm going to walk away." And so it's a good technique to get under your belt because you're not responsible for the way that she treats you and for her abuse. But we can condition people to what we are willing to accept.

And people who are prone to take advantage of others, they will continue to do that until we set that boundary. And I wonder if maybe you've had some lack of conditioning and training to that in your childhood growing up where maybe you didn't feel like you had a voice to be able to push back. How true is that?

Bob: I did not have a voice when I was a kid. My dad ruled with—he was military and he ruled with an iron fist.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, so what's happening is your brain—it may not consciously be doing this, but subconsciously you're going back to that: "Well, here's the position. Someone's above me and now I've got to just comply and I can't push back and I can't say anything." And that's what's happening inside of you.

And so now as an adult, you need to learn to have that adult voice because you're not in that same position. You've got greater power, you've got greater responsibility in relationships and you can assert your adult voice. And so it's learning that adult voice. So I think a couple of follow-ups from here is to one, invite your wife to go to couples therapy and see if she's willing to go.

You're going to need to have a strong therapist who's able to push back on her. I was asking before about: can anyone push back on her? She's going to need someone who can push back in a loving way. And then if she's not willing to go, or in addition, you may need to have your own therapy so that you can process through your story of not being able to stand up to your dad and learn to be able to take some of these actions and develop your own adult voice now.

Brian Perez: People who have a hard time hearing criticism—and I like what you said, Mark, about them finding a strong therapist—but I can almost see it now, and I'm not trying to judge Bob's wife or anything, but the first time—I'm thinking like two or three sessions in, she's just going to say, "You know what? I don't need this. I'm out. All you're doing is finding all my faults and everything."

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, that's often the fear, but strong doesn't mean loud, right? Or equally angry. It just means to confront the issue. So to name what's going on and when she reacts that way, to be able to pursue what she's feeling in that moment that would cause that reaction.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, I think that's key. I mean, you can't regulate every single circumstance here, and I've made my own mistakes here as a therapist too where people have walked away. But I think it's key what Jill is saying: you confront the issue, but you affirm the person at the same time. You say, "Listen, I love you and I care about you, and I'm just pointing this out, and here's what I'm pointing out." And that's why, if she can't tolerate that well, Bob may need his own therapist.

Bob: Bob, thanks for calling into New Life Live today. And we do recommend you get the book "Boundaries" from the NewLife.com store. We think that will help you in this situation. And stay on hold. We'll put you in touch with a life recovery group, too, or a therapist in your area from our network of counselors.

You know, when individuals and families reach out to New Life searching for answers, healing, and the reassurance that they are not alone, it's your financial partnership that allows us to meet them where they are and provide real solutions. We're so thankful whether you give online at NewLife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. You can also text the letters NLM, as in New Life Ministries, to 28950. Brian Perez here with clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard and licensed marriage and family therapist Mark Cameron for two hours in the studio, the rest of this hour and all of next. So call in: 1-800-229-3000. Tony, we're coming up to our break, but let's start talking to you. Thanks for listening to us on KKLA in Long Beach, California. Welcome to New Life Live.

Tony: How you guys doing today?

Brian Perez: Doing well, thanks.

Tony: Good. I'm on my eighth day of something called Mirtazapine, but I want to explain how I got to this point. It deals a little bit with criticism and help and stuff like that. But anyway, I was a policeman for 34 years. Five years into my retirement, I had prostate surgery, this thing called a TURP. And it devastated me physically. And then mentally, what happened was three days after my surgery, I was in a panic attack. And the panic attack lasted basically seven and a half months hardcore where I couldn't sit still. I had to take Seroquel and a bunch of other medications to make it through the seven months.

Then I started to get better and better and better. During that time, my wife is the CEO of a company. Running a company basically. And she was busy a lot of the time, but my sister, my older sister three years older than me, took care of me that whole time basically while I was sick. The problem is five years later, I was fishing in Oregon and I urinated blood.

Brian Perez: Oh my goodness, wow. Tony, stay on the phone. We've got to take a break, but we'll continue hearing your story and help you out and everyone else calling in too. 1-800-229-3000. We want to speak with you today. Call in.

New Life (Narrator): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: All right, let's go back to Tony. So what is your main question for us today, Tony?

Tony: Well, I was mentioning that I have this condition called brain delirium and that my sister came to my aid big time. But after getting sick in Oregon earlier late last year in November, I started having these pains in my stomach. And so far, after several doctors and several tests, nobody's finding anything wrong with me just yet.

But I still have the pain. What I'm wondering about is that these pains in my stomach, they took me back to a place I was five years ago and it took me over the top. So I was not taking psychiatric medication, but I'm taking it again because it's hard for me to lie down and have this sensation in my belly. I started to think maybe it's not even there, but I know it's there physically because I urinated burgundy-colored urine when I actually got sick.

So is this PTSD? The other thing is that you did mention at the beginning of the broadcast about criticism, constructive criticism. There are times when you're down, when you're down mentally and going through stuff, that the criticism time may not be the best time. And it may be given gently because it's not received well and it could put somebody—I'm not going to say over the top because that doesn't sound—I don't know, it just sounds weak, but it can put you over the top, especially if it comes from somebody that was helping you so much before.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, so that is true. When we're in a vulnerable place, it's hard to accept criticism from someone else. It really needs to be delivered in love. And you are in a very vulnerable place. It sounds like you're on an antidepressant here, Tony. You've really had a rough time the last few years here, and now you're anxious again because you're urinating blood. And that makes sense why you would feel anxious.

You mentioned PTSD, and that is the way that our brain works. When we go through something traumatic, our brain flags that and says, "Remember that for next time." And whether it happens consciously or subconsciously, whenever we get reminded of that in some way, our brain can then stimulate our body to go back into that same nervous system response. And it sounds like for you, you've gone back to panic here.

Now, it's really difficult to know what is true because obviously we're not physicians here. And so you'd have to be—I'm sure you are—under the care of a physician. But I recommend going to the person who is prescribing you the Mirtazapine and letting that person know—I'm sure it's a doctor or psychiatrist—the anxious symptoms that you're going through to see if there's other medications they may be able to add to help you with that.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And Tony, I hope that you are doing some therapy in this journey to look at the PTSD and all that you've been through. I mean, just even police retirement after 34 years, that's a lot. And being a first responder can create a lot of PTSD. And often our bodies will reflect what is going on kind of in our minds and psyche.

Brian Perez: Tony, thanks for calling into New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call and we're going to be in the studio for another hour, so you still have plenty of time to call in and talk to Dr. Jill Hubbard and Mark Cameron. Here is Miguel, who's watching us on YouTube. Hi, Miguel. Thank you for watching us in San Antonio, Texas. How can we help you?

Miguel: Hi guys, thank you for taking my call. Can you hear me?

Brian Perez: Yep, loud and clear.

Miguel: Okay, thank you. I called a couple of times before, but I guess my question today is going to be related to seeking medical help, like seeking a therapist or a psychiatrist. Because as a believer, I just yesterday had been having a rough couple of days with my girlfriend. We are going to be four years dating and we're both Christians.

But she was the one who kind of converted me, I guess. But the point is that she was telling me yesterday, she was like, "Oh, we need to break up and give us a time." And in that time, she was telling me, "I hope you seek medical help, that you seek a therapist, you go see a therapist or a psychiatrist because you need it, like 100% you need it." And I'm like, "I don't know," you know? I don't know if that's a good thing or like just—well, my mom, she is diagnosed as bipolar disorder, and she takes these meds every day. So I'm like, I don't want to end up like that, you know, like taking these meds forever.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So Miguel, are you afraid that if you seek help, then you might find something wrong? Is that what you're saying?

Miguel: Yeah, I think that's inside of me.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So staying vague and hesitant and fearful as a Christian in getting input keeps you in kind of that low-grade anxious place that's in the background and keeps you from maybe looking at things that your girlfriend is trying to say to you, to the point where she's saying we need to break up. Because it sounds like it's hard for you to receive things out of some of your fear.

And you know the old saying, "Knowledge is power." And really, going to therapy is a space that you create for yourself where you can hear yourself think with someone who is objective and empathic and will listen and help walk with you beside you. They're not going to force anything on you. So clarity would be your friend here. And sometimes knowing the truth about ourselves versus staying vague helps us to function much better in life.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, not knowing is not going to make the problem go away. It's just going to keep you unaware. And what we're not aware of, we can't address. There's a story in the Bible where Jesus heals the man at the pool, and He says to him, "Do you want to be healed?" And fear often holds us back from seeking the healing that we need because—

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right, and the man when He said that, the man said, "Well, of course I want to be healed," right? But he didn't really want to be. He said the words; it was an idea that he liked, but he really didn't invest his whole being in being healed.

Mark Cameron: Well, he said, "I have no one to put me in the pool." He had excuses. He didn't say, "I want to be healed." But until we can really face the issue, until we can face the tension—and you know, if you go to a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist recommends medication, you don't have to take that medication.

But you can't treat something that you don't have a diagnosis for. And if you disagree with a diagnosis, you can go and you can get a second opinion too. But there's a difference between modern-day psychiatry and therapy. Psychiatrists generally will focus on providing medication prescriptions, but therapy will help you process through your story. And of course, we both do therapy here, so we're not going to say that's not a good thing.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Right, and medication alone is never optimal, right?

Mark Cameron: Exactly, exactly. The studies show that medication, what that does is that helps manage symptoms, whereas therapy helps us process through what's the root causes of problems and learning to heal in relationships with ourselves and with others.

Brian Perez: So I can see that maybe Miguel is thinking, "No, I can—I have buddies, I can go to my buddies and they'll tell me the truth." But will they really? I'm not saying they won't, but when you go see a therapist, you're going to get a viewpoint that you may not be seeing and that your friends may not—maybe want to tell you. I mean, you think your friends want to be honest with you, but maybe they're going to—"Ah, you know, have you ever thought of this?" So I think that's something for Miguel to keep in mind.

Mark Cameron: Well, it comes down to some of what I spoke about in the opening: it's about being able to get that accurate feedback so that we can reveal our blind spots, and so that we're no longer blind to them and then we can do something about them. And it's a challenge to do that, and you do have to be brave; you do have to be courageous to be able to face the areas inside of us that we struggle with.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Or the things that you fear. Right?

Brian Perez: Miguel, great hearing from you again today on New Life Live. And we're going to keep the phone lines open for another hour at 1-800-229-3000. Whether you've called us before or you're a first-time caller, we want to hear from you this next hour. So do call in here to New Life Live: 1-800-229-3000.

New Life (Narrator): Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to NewLife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.