New Life LIVE

Brian Perez: Thanks so much for joining us today on New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez. Always happy to have you with us. We've got lots of great conversation coming up this hour with licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West and clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard. Elizabeth, we see you there on the phone. You'll be first up, but Jill, why don't you start us off with some of that great advice you're known for?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Hello everyone. We were together a few days ago, and one of our callers called in about fear. That had been something I was thinking of discussing. Today I want to talk about what you are afraid of and the whole idea of fear. I remember as a kid, I thought back when I was more idealistic that fear was something you had to just get through, get over, so that you could grow out of it.

Sadly, realizing that when becoming an adult, it doesn't mean that we actually get rid of fear. It doesn't mean that we're no longer afraid. Our fears usually have changed over time, but we're usually still afraid of something, someone, or some area of life. Often I have found that as the more that happens in life, what we actually become afraid of is what has already happened. The fear is that this is going to happen again. It is like it is in the future, but it's really already happened, and we're having to grieve that.

I always say the four main emotions are mad, glad, sad, and afraid. What do we do with this fear? What are we really afraid of? I mentioned before that so many of us just stop at the feeling of fear and we don't go any further. We don't look behind it and see what else is there. Here's an exercise to do. First of all, we want to name our fears, and we often want to do the opposite of what the fear is.

Start with making a list. Let's say you have three columns. Make a list: what is the fear? Be as specific as you can be because avoidance or vagueness doesn't make fear go away; it only grows it because then it is ominous, mysterious, and looming. We list our fear. Then, how does this fear affect me? What is the impact of this fear? Go a little further. Then, is there an action that I can take?

For example, after my first marriage ended, I became deathly afraid of doing my taxes. Most of us don't like to do taxes and have fears of that, but it was out of proportion. I realized this was the one area he really took care of, and I didn't have to do any of that. It brought up really bad feelings every time I thought about doing my taxes. I just wanted to avoid them. Even my kids knew that taxes equaled mommy being in a bad mood.

I had to lean into that. I had to ask for help, and still, my brain will go brain dead when it comes to that area because it was an area where I had been really hurt. For some people, it may be just this sense of badness, that something bad is going to happen. I challenge you to look a little further. What is the bad thing that's going to happen? Is that actually going to happen? What action can I take?

If it seems out of proportion to the current situation, we know it's historical. Look and see what the origin is so that you can get through it. Then we ask God to give us the courage to lean into our fears.

Brian Perez: For some of you, the fear might be to call in to our program. We would love to hear from you. Seriously, maybe you don't want to discuss whatever you're going through, but we are here for you at New Life LIVE.

JJ West: I was thinking about this old joke that Jerry Seinfeld told about how for most people, their number one fear is public speaking and that the number two or number three fear is dying. He said at any given funeral, most people would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy. We want to manage our fears a little bit better to recognize that it could be that I have this unreasonable fear. If I have this historical reaction to something, there's something in the story that I need to wrestle with so that this fear is no longer having control of my life.

Brian Perez: For sure. All right, let's go to the phones. Here is Elizabeth, who listens to us on WEGS in Pensacola, Florida. Welcome to New Life LIVE, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth: Hello. My question is that I've been a believer and I got saved a long time ago, but ever since, the stronger my walk with God gets, it seems like the more the enemy takes from me. The struggles I go through cause me to question my faith and stay firm in the word of God. Trying to stay firm with hope in the promises of God while battling anxiety and depression and fear is a bitter battle. How do you combat that as a believer when you are dealing with so many psychological aspects of the world and going back and forth with still trying to stay firm with your walk with God even though nothing's going right in it?

Brian Perez: Are you talking about yourself personally? You mentioned the world, so I'm wondering if you are looking at all the events that are going on in the world. Is that causing you fear?

Elizabeth: Personally. As a believer, we're stuck in the world, and you have to be strong because the world is such a flesh-ridden place. It is so much easier to lead with your flesh and to follow just impressionable idealistic things versus being solely faced on the word of God. But the more I've dove deep into the word of God, the more I've lost. I'm battling with it spiritually and mentally because no matter how hard I pray, I'm at the point where I'm losing my home. I'm working three jobs and it still isn't enough. I'm a single parent. I take care of my disabled mom. How can I keep my faith and trust in the word of God while I feel like I'm in my Job phase?

JJ West: Elizabeth, you're absolutely right that as we progress toward God, we encounter more and more of the attack of the enemy because the enemy hates any progress we make toward God. He wants to thwart any progress we make toward God, and that resistance that we face gets stronger and stronger. It's as if we're not just swimming upstream. We're swimming upstream to the springhead. You're a fellow Floridian, so you understand. You get into a spring-fed river, and the closer you get to the springhead, the stronger the current is.

That's exactly the case as we progress toward God and toward the things of God. We're getting a stronger and stronger current against us from the world, from our own flesh, and from the enemy of our soul that wants to get us off track. What you're experiencing is spiritually accurate. I'm so sorry that you are experiencing such hardship and such loss. It's heartbreaking.

But here's how we stay in it. Number one is I have to have other people around me. I can't do this alone. I wasn't designed to do this alone. I need to have other people in my life who help encourage me to keep going. These are the people like in Mark 2, the four friends who are carrying their friend the paralytic to Jesus. The paralytic friend can't get to Jesus on his own. No matter how much faith he had, he couldn't get physically to Jesus on his own, but his friends get him there.

They are not discouraged by the fact that they can't get in the room because it's so crowded. They make another plan. They climb up on the roof, dig a hole, and lower him down. Jesus said he saw their faith. Then he says to the paralytic, "Get up and take up your mat and walk." I need people in my life who are like that, who are so invested in me and in my spiritual growth that they will drag me to Jesus when I can't get there on my own. I have to have people like that in my life.

I also have to keep reminding myself of God's faithfulness. We see this all through scripture, especially in the Old Testament. Over and over it says that God does this incredible act, build an altar here so that you can remember what God did. We write down the things of God. Where has God been faithful? I reflect on those to help me in my present trial to not lose faith.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Elizabeth, I'm so sorry. Life can be so difficult, and I'm thankful that you are a Christian and you are trying to lean into the Lord. I always think when people say they don't want to lose their faith, I really wonder if that's the question because where else would you go? This life is super hard, and to leave your faith, where else then? There are answers nowhere else. Some of it is maybe being disappointed in God. "God, why is it so hard?" and "How do I handle this?" might be the questions. God, you're there, but how am I going to handle the atrocities that are happening here in my life?

I think we have to ask ourselves too, is my fear making it harder or my attempts to control? What changes do I need to make where I'm holding on because I want to trust God but my trust is shaky? Then I over-control in areas or, like JJ was saying, I try to do everything myself. Because I don't have time and resources, I've given up going to church or I don't have community. We give up sometimes, what feels like out of necessity, the things that are life-giving, and then all we have are the problems and we wonder why we're drowning.

There isn't always an immediate answer to a problem, but we have to do the paradigm shifts. Showing up, like JJ is saying, and being with people and gathering friends around you and saying, "I'm drowning here. Can I touch base with you guys on a weekly basis?" or "Can we do a prayer chain or something?" Something that adds encouragement and seeking input from others who may have some options. Be aware of what is your resistance to other options. Sometimes God gives us things and we're like, "God help me, I'm drowning," and he's like, "Well, I sent you a boat" or "I sent you this person or that information," and you rejected it. Reflect and look on that.

Brian Perez: Do you have a support system, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth: No, I don't. I'm actually new to the area. We moved here from Mississippi because I just recently escaped a domestic violence marriage. We moved here thinking that it was going to be a huge blessing and the house we got was actually a scam. When I tell you it's been one thing after another, it's literally like I don't understand how one human being could be the one taking the brunt blow of it all for all of humanity.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: You had hope and then your hope was dashed. Now you've lost people that were around you. Do you still call back to Mississippi and talk to people?

Elizabeth: I have one best friend. I am the support system for everyone else. When people are dwindling, I'm the one that people call for prayer and encouragement. It's the one who usually holds the mantle that doesn't have anyone for themselves. I'm the one that holds the mantle, and everyone always looks at you like, "She's not going to break, she's fine. You're okay because she's always strong."

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Elizabeth, it's hard to give up that mantle. It's hard for the pastor to tell someone else that they need help. It's hard for you as the caretaker and the spiritual leader of others to say, "I'm going through a season where I need." To humble yourself and surrender that. If you're always looking like you're strong for everyone else, people don't see that you have a need. You have to let somebody in. If I don't show my need, nobody can meet my needs. I've got to be humble enough and vulnerable enough to say I have needs.

JJ West: I used to work in Pensacola. I used to drive over from Tallahassee and did campus ministry over there. I happen to know that there are some really good churches in Pensacola. Elizabeth, what I want you to do is make it a priority over the next month to find a spiritual community there who can help carry you when you're hurting. Find one that you can be open and honest with to say I have this need. "I'm hurting and I need support, I need encouragement. I'm not always going to be the strong one. Sometimes I need to be the recipient." That's okay. That's not evidence of a shortcoming on your part. That's evidence of you being human. I want you to make a commitment to yourself that I'm going to look for and find a spiritual community here that can help support me in the ways that some of my friends did back in Mississippi.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: It does take time, and so you have to get into a smaller group at church so that you get that familiarity with people. They get to know you and you have that repeated exposure over time. I know at my church, when there's new people that have been coming, the guy that does all the greeting and makes people feel welcome will bring new people to people who have been going a long time. This happened this Sunday. He said, "I'd like you to meet this person, and she's been coming for a few months, and here are her kids." When he does that, we know this is a new person. We need to look for them and make them feel welcome because we want to help and bring them in. It's often people reach out when they are going through hard times.

JJ West: Can I add one more thing? I think that there is a New Life recovery group that meets in Pensacola. Look that up and see. You can probably just stay on the line and talk to someone in the office to find out if in fact there is. That would be a great place to start as well.

Brian Perez: One other quick question for you, Elizabeth. You said you're a single mom. How are your kids doing through all this?

Elizabeth: They're very humble, and I'm truly blessed because I keep them involved in the word as well. We pray a lot and we talk about God. They understand, but they still wish we had more, if that makes sense.

Brian Perez: We're going to keep you in our prayers, Elizabeth. Everyone listening and watching right now, keep Elizabeth and her kids in your prayers. Thank you so much for reaching out to us today. We're going to put you in touch with that life recovery group that's near you. We hear these stories so often, and we're so glad that you're still sticking with your faith though, because a lot of people when they have hardship of this magnitude just walk away. Stay strong, sister. We're going to be praying for you here. This is New Life LIVE.

Valentine's Day is next weekend. If you're married, the best Valentine's gift you can give your spouse is an investment into your marriage. You can do that when you spend Valentine's weekend with us at the Intimacy in Marriage workshop. It's one weekend, but the gift of improved intimacy lasts a lifetime. For anyone uncertain about being in a group like this, it's not so bad, right JJ? What are the breakout groups like? Oh, did we lose JJ?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I think we did lose JJ. I will just say this is an amazing time. Anybody I've ever sent to this weekend is so glad that they went. In the breakout groups, you're with a trained therapist, and it's usually about four couples. You're sharing as a group, but you also get some time that is focused on you within the group. Sometimes it's so much easier to see in another couple what they're doing wrong. I find this especially for the husbands. It's like, "They're doing it all wrong."

Then you do start to see it in yourselves. You learn things. JJ really primes the pump, and all the speakers there, for material that gets you thinking and flowing and thinking about your life and realizations about who you were before you married and coming into this relationship and now the combination. There's always lots to talk about in the groups. People leave much happier than when they started.

Brian Perez: What do you say to someone who's hesitant because they're like, "I don't want total strangers to hear my dirty laundry, to hear what's going on with my situation"?

JJ West: I'm back. Technology just decides when to work and when not to work and seems to always choose the most inopportune times. Like when you're on a live radio show across the country and the host reaches out to you and asks an important question. Jill, thank you for doing that. You did a great job. Of course, it is all confidential. I was going to say the groups, even though people sometimes have a hesitancy about being in this group with people they don't know and talking about their lives, most people after the workshops say the group was the best experience. That was the thing that they say they're so glad they had, more so than even the information that they heard in the large group meetings. It was their experience in the small groups, and usually those relationships last for years and decades afterwards.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: You know how we will share so much with a stranger on an airplane? Sometimes it's actually better that you don't know the people and they're not part of your everyday life. It makes it easier because the sole purpose is to share these things within this confidential group.

Brian Perez: You can find out more about Intimacy in Marriage on our website, newlife.com, or you can call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. We would love to see you there. It is next weekend, in fact, it starts one week from today, February 13th, in Orange County, California. Speaking of Orange County, California, we've got Megan in Santa Ana, who listens to us on KKLA. Hello, Megan. Welcome to New Life LIVE.

Megan: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. You've helped me so much over the years. I just am looking for some advice for a situation. I want to know how to support my friend. I'm one of the only people who understands what her situation is. She's confided in me. She's a stay-at-home mom, been married 12 years, and her husband's chronically unfaithful. Her stance, what she tells me, is she would rather stay in the marriage so she has daily access to her six and nine-year-olds. She's a stay-at-home mom. She views this situation as choosing her kids' well-being and their involvement over her own vision for what kind of marriage she had always hoped for. Her stance is she wants to wait until her six-year-old graduates from high school to leave the marriage. I don't know what to do with that information when she confides. How can I help her?

Brian Perez: You did the right thing by calling in to New Life LIVE. We've got Dr. Jill Hubbard and JJ West here. We're going to talk it over. Megan, stay on hold, don't hang up. We might have some more questions for you about your friend. Megan, thank you for being her friend because she really needs you. She needs somebody she can tell this to, and it's a hard thing to contain. There are usually so many variables, and it's hard to know what anyone would do. Looking in, it's easy to say, "You should do this," but you have to take into account the person's fears and the dread of loss because in divorce, nobody really wins. Staying in this is not really a win either.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: I might encourage her, since she's wanting to stay, and it may be that she has hope that he'll have some recognition and make some changes and then they could save their family. That would be the best-case scenario if he was willing to get some help and to re-choose his family versus the extramarital affair. But she needs to get her ducks in a row instead of being an ostrich with her head in the sand. She needs to be aware of all the bank accounts. She needs to start gathering information, anything that she finds out. Just be keenly aware because if something should happen where he meets somebody that pushes him and he does end the marriage, she needs to know everything about their financial situation so that she has copies of things. We pray for the best outcome, but we prepare for the worst.

She sounds like she has some time. There are two different thoughts here. She could stay and leave when her kids graduate from high school, and her kids may end up being angry with her that they've been all living a lie and now the marriage is going to end. Or, to not stay, yes, that's a lot of upheaval, and it's a real fear to not have 100% control of your kids and to have a court telling you you have to hand these children over to someone who's been so hurtful and unfaithful. Both solutions are very imperfect. Again, I would just echo that she needs to prepare, she needs to have you and maybe some other people around her supporting her, and a plan for asking him to get help and to start there. Over time, I would suggest her getting into therapy as well, weighing out the cost-benefit to her choices.

Brian Perez: Do the kids know what's going on, Megan?

Megan: No, not at all. No one in her family does.

JJ West: It's important for her not only to know about the finances, but it's also important for her to know state laws with regard to divorce and separation of assets and state law with regard to custody. She wants to be as informed as possible. It's important to recognize that it's not just the choice of either I stay in the marriage as it is, or I divorce now, or I divorce however many years from now when the children are graduated from high school. It can also be that if I choose to stay in the marriage now, I don't have to stay in the marriage as it is.

For instance, her own self-protection. If he is repeatedly being unfaithful, she needs to make sure that she's not putting her own health at risk in terms of STDs and putting her own emotional health at risk in terms of carrying on a lie that everything's fine in the marriage when it's not. I agree with Jill that it's going to be important for her to pray for restoration, praying for a miracle that her husband's heart and mind would change, but also praying for wisdom and insight and preparation for if in fact nothing changes and I do have to go through with a divorce. I need to be as informed as possible and I'm protecting myself and the kids in terms of how we are choosing to live this out. It's a horrible situation. I am so glad that you are a friend to her so that she's not going through this alone. That's vital. Maybe even expand that circle out a little bit to include some other people who can be praying, but also other people who may have some resources available to help her find the answers to some of the questions that we're raising.

Megan: This was so good and so helpful. I'm going to have her listen to this show so she can hear all of your advice. It's just a lot.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: It is a lot, and I do agree with expanding the circle, Megan, because it's a lot for you to contain. We want people out of pain, so our tendency is to want to push them in a direction when she may need to just be talking this through over and over again. It's important for us who are on the outside to express compassion and empathy to say to the friend, "I don't know what it's like to live in your world. I don't know what it's like to be faced with that horrible decision of either I stay in a marriage where I am being mistreated, or I run the risk of having less interaction with my children." That's a terrible choice to have to make for anyone. I'm so sorry that your friend is faced with that. We don't want on the outside to say, "I know exactly what you're feeling and I know exactly what you should do," because we don't live with the consequences of that choice.

You said she's a stay-at-home mom. If he at some point were to end the marriage, it actually is better for her being a stay-at-home mom. I know stay-at-home moms get afraid because they don't have financial resources, but it just would help her down the road if it goes the way she hopes it does not, financially for support and things like that.

Brian Perez: Megan, we've got a webinar coming up that I think your friend would benefit from. It's called "From Pain to Peace: Healing After Betrayal." This is for men or women. It's a one-night webinar, 90 minutes, and it includes Q&A. You can find out more about it at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Of course, the "Restore: Healing After Betrayal" intensive is happening next month. It's a weekend, March 6th through the 8th in Dallas, Texas. We're going to send you registration for the webinar, Megan, that you can forward to your friend. Have her attend. It's happening on February 26th.

Megan: Thank you.

Brian Perez: Stay on the phone and we'll get your information so that you can forward that to her. How do we prepare for those conversations with friends? We don't know Megan's situation where her friend just called her or maybe over coffee. I'm sure Megan was devastated. How do we prepare mentally for those phone calls that we might get from friends that things aren't going so well?

JJ West: There are a couple of things there. Number one is that I remember that I live in a fallen world and there's brokenness all around me. Most of the time the brokenness is unseen. The things that I get to see on social media and what people talk about at church is not usually the whole picture. There's a lot more brokenness going on behind the scenes than I'm aware of. Number two, we have a sovereign God and nothing sneaks up on him. Even if I am surprised by the details of a story that a friend shares with me, God is not. God is still on his throne. I can still trust him even in the midst of a difficult story.

Number three, God says that he's given me everything I need for life and godliness in this present age. I'm not grasping for straws. That doesn't mean that I know the answer to every question or that I know exactly what resources to point to someone, but at the very least, I at least know I have a connection with God that I can be praying for my friend while they're walking through this and while I'm walking beside them through this.

A great place for resources is our website, newlife.com. Sometimes you can just tell a friend, "Hey, let's do this together. You're here at my home right now, let's log in to newlife.com and take a look at these articles and these videos that are available there." So much great information. You can find out more about the betrayal webinar happening February 26th or Restore: Healing After Betrayal, the three-day intensive for women. Call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. We'll be back.

Brian Perez: When you support New Life, you're helping people connect with transformational resources that can have an impact on future generations. When one person breaks an addiction, gets healed, and gets healthy, it has a ripple effect on those around them and for generations to come. Thank you for your generosity in helping others. You can give online at newlife.com, by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE, or by texting NLM to 28950.

We've had so many good calls this week so far from people who have reached out to us. We just heard from Megan and her friend, and also Elizabeth, and Dorothy and Betty yesterday. So many good conversations that we've had here on New Life LIVE, and it's because of your financial support, so thank you so much for whatever you can do. Again, you can give online at newlife.com, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, or text NLM to 28950.

It is a week before Valentine's Day next weekend. It is a Saturday this year, and we have the Intimacy in Marriage intensive happening next weekend that we've talked about. I want to talk about Valentine's Day in a way where, what would you say to people, maybe there's a guy listening right now and he's been dating a gal and he's thinking of proposing to her next weekend? Maybe he's already purchased the ring or he's thinking of purchasing the ring and he's just going to pop the question on Valentine's Day. But maybe he's doing it more because he feels pressure from her. He really doesn't want to do it, but he's feeling like she's telling him all her friends are getting married and they've been a couple for a few years now. What would you say to that guy other than call us here at New Life LIVE because we can help you with this?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Definitely call us here. First of all, I have to say, guys, make your reservations early. Don't wait until the day of. Good plan. So you change the story because first of all, you were giving what every girl is hoping for, Valentine's Day, he's going to pop the question for those who are dating someone. But now you've changed it to, okay, he's feeling pressured. If you are feeling pressured into something, what's going on inside of you, men?

What is your internal conflict or resistance? If you're feeling like you have to talk yourself into this, I'm sorry, but no girl wants that. What about your lack of ability to know what you want and stand up for yourself? Where is the lack of commitment issue that happens in so many people but often men? What are you really looking for? If you've been dating someone, especially a long time, what are you waiting for?

There's no magical time where you say, "Yes, this is the one." That happens for some people but not for everyone. If there are some real hesitations, then maybe you need to take a step back. Maybe you need to take a break from the relationship because better to do that work now than on the other side of getting married.

JJ West: I definitely agree that it's never a good idea to make a big life-altering decision like getting married, buying a house, or what career you're going to choose under pressure. "I'm doing this to make somebody else happy," that's a terrible strategy for life. Don't do that.

But the flip side I think that Jill is asking is so important. Is it that I'm getting legitimate pressure from someone else, or am I resistant to making a choice and committing to something? If that's the case, then I've really got to do that internal work of what's going on inside of me that I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on this decision. Because if the girl you're feeling pressure from, she's sensing that something is off.

It's one thing if we've been dating for a few weeks or a few months and I'm getting pressure, "Hey, it's time, where's the ring, where's the ring?" But if I've been dating for several years and we're talking about an adult relationship and there's still no commitment to one another, there should be the question of, "Where are we headed? What's going on here? Are we in fact planning a future together or is this just a placeholder?" I don't want to be a placeholder. That's a legitimate question to ask.

I do need to do that internal work of investigating if I am hesitant to make that commitment. What's that about? Do I have a fear of commitment? Do I have a history of rejection? Did I grow up in a home with divorced parents and it kind of left me scarred with "I don't think any relationship lasts"? I have to do that internal work, but it can't be, "Oh, I've got to propose to you on this romantic day because that's what you want even though that's not what I want." That's a recipe for disaster, and it's going to be a whole lot of work on the other side if that's the route that you take.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: A lot of people, or especially I think men, want to be at a certain place in life, which there's some good to that. It's good to have a job and to be earning income. But sometimes their expectations are too high. It's like they want to get their whole life together and then they'll include another person. Instead of seeing that actually men who are married and are in a good relationship actually are far more successful and do better with somebody supporting them in their journey.

Depending on different age levels, I think that if we wait too long, we are then missing an important milestone in life. Actually, in the dating world, if you're a year and a half, two and a half years, and you haven't figured it out, then another ten years is not going to help you figure it out with this person. You're not going to magically have insight. Usually between a year and a half and two and a half years is when they say is optimal for getting engaged. If you're really young, the time can be longer. But in the dating world, if you're not going to make a commitment, then you need to let the girl go even though it'll be heartbreaking. A lot of times women invest, invest, invest and hope, and so we don't want to give up because we've invested so much. It's just around the corner.

JJ West: It's a fallacy of sunk value. I keep putting in, keep putting in, I can't let it go now because I've invested so much. But I keep putting in to this thing that's a losing cause. Eventually, I do have to say, okay, this isn't what I'm looking for.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Happy Valentine's Day, everybody. On that note, have we been a total downer? Can I just give my Valentine pitch though? Valentine's isn't just for couples. It's for everybody that you love. I spent a lot of years as a single mom, so my kids were my Valentines, or my friends were my Valentines. I like to give Valentines to all different kinds of people and you can enjoy love no matter what stage of life you're in.

Brian Perez: I think that means Dr. Jill is going to bring chocolates for everybody next week here in the studio. We have another week till Valentine's Day. If you want to call us on Monday with your questions, the ones that we didn't address on today's show, write them down so you don't forget them and then you can call us on Monday. Before that, we'll see you at church on Sunday. God bless you guys. Thanks for watching and listening to New Life LIVE.