New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: How are you fine people doing today? It's time for New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and joining me on the program today, we've got licensed marriage and family therapist, author Mark Cameron, and could it be? Yes, it happens to be licensed professional counselor Laura Mangin McDonald on the show once again. Hope you two are doing well. Laura, why don't you start us off with some of your sweet Southern wisdom?

Laura Mangin McDonald: Well, I would love to, Brian. Thank you for asking. So today what I'm thinking about is I grew up in the country, and I know you need good tread to stay on the road, right? Or to four-wheel drive or whatever, you need good tread. So good friends are like good tread on our tires.

And so what is that? It's God's design. Good friends give us the traction we need to stay on course in life. They help us to celebrate the highs with us, they're with us during the lows, they stand with us, they speak truth, they heal our hearts, they console us during our losses in life. We all need good friends.

And it's because God designed us for connection, right? He says that we are not to do this alone. However, a lot of people that I've come across in life say, "Well, that's just not for me. It's just me and the Lord." But the Lord gave us the body of Christ. And like we talked about on a show earlier this week, we need community to heal. We need to be able to bring our vulnerable parts that got hurt early on into relationship.

And Ecclesiastes tells us in a beautiful scripture in 4:9-10 that says, "Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up. But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them."

That's a sad place to be, and often we see that right in the middle of the church. People love Jesus, they show up to volunteer, they give and pour out for great ministry, but no one knows them. And we were created to be known. And until we can be known, life is going to be daunting to us. It's going to be overwhelming.

So even though the views are valid for thinking oh, friendships just aren't for me, that's distorted thinking. So what do we do? First of all, we've got to go back in to heal in healthy relationships. And that's going to be counterintuitive because that's a place I was hurt and my nervous system has all this download. Don't let them see all of you until all of us is seen, we can't be healed. All of us what we hold back will hold us hostage, but what we bring in the light will heal us. And that's God's design.

So here are the three things that we can work on. The first thing we must do is we don't outgrow what we didn't get. It's still there. We have to bring those parts. The second thing is our nervous system will recognize it, so we need a safe structured setting and that can begin with a therapist. The third thing, or the second thing is open up our hearts like Paul said. We're not rejecting you, you're rejecting us. And the third thing is get in that structured setting. I've been working with a group for six years where they practice this. And that's what we can do. And that's how good friends we can learn how to choose a good friend.

Mark Cameron: Well, I love what Laura started with. It sounds like tread on a tire, it sounds like a country song here, tread on the tire on a country road. I'm sure there's a song about it. I don't listen to country music, but I'm sure there's one somewhere.

But no, I like what you're saying here about learning to be known because when we pull away from others, it's a self-protective strategy. But we are built to be in relationship and often times I think when we pull away it's because we don't know how to get out there to be known, even though we long for that. And when we think we don't long for that, it's because we're protecting here.

And my wife Amy, she's really good at that. She's really good at connecting with others. Just the other day we went to dinner and she'll overhear someone talking at the table next to them and she's like, "Oh, what concert you guys going to?" because she heard them telling the waiter, "Hey, we need to get this done really quickly so we can get to a concert." She would just see someone's food and say, "Hey, is that good over there?"

And for me, I'm like, I would never do this. But people interact with that. They love it. They are like, "Oh yeah, it's really good." And then it sparks up a whole conversation. And I've really learned from her that that's part of my wounding is not feeling known but then not wanting to reach out, but it's really out of fear of rejection.

But we need to learn to do that if we want to be known. We've got to put ourselves out there and understand that rejection might happen here or there, but it doesn't mean that that should define all of our interactions out there. If we want to heal, we do need to take some level of risk and it's in through those new experiences that end up overriding the old experiences that healing happens.

Laura Mangin McDonald: But you know what happens is people then try to put themselves out there but they don't have the playbook yet, right? They don't have what the rules are. So it's totally legit. I took the risk, I was hurt again, see this is why I don't have close friends.

But if we have that, I call it S to the third power, that safe structured setting and like this group that I've had the privilege of working with for six years, the same ladies. They started out didn't know each other and that we take a little litmus test, we practice bringing more of ourselves in. So if you can practice in a life recovery, the power of that group again, or in your therapist's office, and then you go out there and do it a little bit at a time, it's kind of reparenting what we didn't get growing up. That's why we don't outgrow what we didn't get because we've got to go back and still develop that part of us to know how to be prudent, to know how to take the risk, and if we do get hurt, there's a safe base to run home to, to go, this is what happened, and to have that experience seen, heard, and healed.

Brian Perez: For sure. Laura, you mentioned that some people will think that friendships just aren't for me. And by the way Dorothy, we're going to get to your call in just a moment so don't hang up. I just want to get your guys' opinion on how sometimes people will choose a relationship, a "relationship" with their pet, with an animal over people because I guess they feel safe or you know, "dogs are man's best friend, my dog is never going to let me down."

So there might be people in that situation right now listening who don't trust people, who want nothing to do with their neighbors. We see them all the time, at least I do, when two different people are walking their dog in the evening and they'll stop not to chat but just so the and they'll ask questions about their pet instead of asking about each other. I guess it's just one of those things. I mean people are so hard to.

Laura Mangin McDonald: It makes sense. I love my pets, they're here. But my pets can't meet my human needs. And that's where and but a person who hasn't taken that risk or has been hurt repeatedly, they're going to go to the pets, it's safe. And so they're reinforced in that. I'm sure Mark has something to say to that, but because I think they have a pet they love a lot, too.

Mark Cameron: We do. His name is Swiffer. He's a cat. And we love him. But I think you're hitting on what it really is here. It's a lack of trust and that comes everything that we know we've learned and everything that we have learned we've had a teacher for. And everything that we've learned about relationships our first teachers are our parents in our families of origin and if it's not safe there, if we've been wounded, we take those strategies into adulthood with us. And we can either continue to live like that or we can heal. There's an option there. Jesus came and he healed people and there's an option for us to be healed so that we don't have to live with that crutch anymore and we can experience the full freedom that relationships offer.

Brian Perez: All right, let's go to the phones. Here is Dorothy in New Jersey. Welcome to New Life LIVE, Dorothy. Thanks for calling in today.

Dorothy: Well, my issue is my problem is I'm married. I've known the man since 2010. I'm 80, he's 77, and most of the time he gives you sarcastic remarks. I'm doing it because he might walk in at any time. Sarcastic remarks about a lot of things. He didn't use to do that. Very you don't know what to say to him. You don't know to ask him anything, or to tell him anything. You tell him something, he'll be like, "You didn't have to tell me that." And you ask him something like you're asking him something that you should already know. And I know that I'm a wise woman for God has put that there for me.

And you try to live with someone like that, that's a hard thing to do. Very hard. You smile in the morning, you don't sleep with me, but we lie in the morning, you get up and say good morning. But I wasn't used to that. Only been married for going on four or five years. And you try your best. He's a vet. You try your best to do what you promised to do in your marriage, to do the best you can. And that's what I do. Morning, noon, and night, I try to fix meals every single day. Now he might come in and complain about something. And I've been telling him lately that you just complain. And I don't know if he's got dementia or he's got whatever. He can be nice when he gets ready to be, but it's very hard to live with.

And then he'll go in and close the door. And then sometimes he'll get up and open his door. And I don't say too much because I try to watch and say what I ask God to just guide my steps, order my steps in the Lord. And I just say, well, it doesn't make any kind of sense to go in your bedroom and close the door and then you get up a little bit later and open it. I don't know if it's because I'm making too much noise with the TV in here.

Brian Perez: So you say you've been married four or five years?

Dorothy: Yes. I think this year coming up will be four.

Brian Perez: And you guys are 80 and 77, is that right, Dorothy?

Dorothy: 80 and 77.

Mark Cameron: Was he sarcastic when you met him?

Dorothy: No.

Mark Cameron: Okay, so this is a new thing that's happened. And why did you guys decide to get married so late in life?

Dorothy: Because I was divorced, I got divorced, and when we met, I had lost my job. And you're talking to somebody about the job or the shock that I had lost the job. And he could tell me everywhere I was supposed to be going to unemployment, I didn't know that, where to go. And from that conversation, I had nothing else going on but I saw him another time and we still chatted and what have you and it led into saying to myself, this guy knows where different places are here in New Jersey where we are. We both live there and I fell in love with him. And I still love him. But some days it's okay and some days it's not. Some days I cry because I can't put my hand on it. And if you walk, I don't want to leave out losing what I got and not getting anything. And not that I'm in it for that, but I just don't want to. If I walk I want what I want. Like I said, he tried to be nice as he can at times but at times you cannot put your he could be evil, he could be mean. And I don't tell people that. I don't go around telling people that.

Mark Cameron: Well, I mean, you want some engagement from him. Oftentimes people who get married late in life like you did, it's really more driven by companionship. You know you're in the last quarter so to speak and you want someone to share that with, someone to be around. But what I'm hearing from you is he can shut himself off and he can be very sarcastic.

And I don't like sarcasm myself because I think it's self-protective. Oftentimes people use it because they have an intolerance for mistakes in the way that you're saying and so they'll be sarcastic about it because for them they struggle with, "Oh, I don't want to have to explain it again to you" or "This should be obvious." But it's coming from a sense of intolerance inside of them, but they externalize it and then that makes it safe not to ask questions and things like that. Have you tried to tell him about how hurtful his sarcasm is to you? And what's his response?

Dorothy: No, I might say you're being sarcastic, but after you hear it so much every so often that you hear it, what are you gaining? You're not gaining anything. We don't order because what are you gaining? Either if I start to order something I feel like walking out the door. And I feel as though it doesn't really matter if I did or I didn't.

Mark Cameron: Well, and I know that he's probably aware that he's being sarcastic, but I wonder if he's aware how much it actually hurts you rather than annoys you. This is hurtful to me when you do that.

Dorothy: I don't know if he knows. He's the type of person who has a "don't care" attitude, so what difference does it really make?

Mark Cameron: Well, that's hard. And so it sounds like not very long ago you guys made this decision to get married and so you were excited and happy with one another and now you're starting to hit a drift. And so you may benefit from going to a couples therapist, both of you, and having somebody walk you through these conversations where you get to express what's actually going on deep down on the inside and explore where that comes from and learn how to create these verbalizations for one another to understand. Would he be willing to go to a couples therapist with you?

Dorothy: I don't think so because he's been married before and so have I. And he did tell me when I first met him, "I didn't say anything about going to no therapy." He just said, "You know what? I've been to a therapist before. I was in therapy." So I didn't even ask him that, but I guess he might have been feeling something then that if he would go to therapy, he'd been there already. But I didn't say anything to him about going to therapy, but I do tell the doctor when I can talk to them that his he's depression, he goes through depression. He told me that. And I felt that, saying well maybe that's what it was back then. I kind of like okay, he's going through a depression moment.

Mark Cameron: Well, something that might be a little bit lower risk for you is our Intimacy and Marriage Workshop, which is happening next weekend. It's out here in Orange County, but we talk through this whole thing. We talk through core patterns and attachment styles and how that influences a marriage. Laura, you are one of the presenters there. Share with us a little bit more about what happens there.

Laura Mangin McDonald: Yes, Dorothy. What I'm hearing is something that we go over. We talk about our histories colliding, right? And so when we come together, every nanosecond that I've experienced in life comes with me. And whatever I've unresolved will be brought to the surface in the conflict.

So what I'm hearing is it sounds like you maybe your husband was one of the first men that really heard you and he tried to help you and that was very that deeply impacted your heart. Now, maybe that's what I translated. And then things began to change. But I'll take a risk and add something. Dorothy, you are the common denominator. We are the common denominator and that's good news because then we're never left at the mercy of someone else deciding whether we can heal or not. So you can heal.

And the powerful thing of that is if one person participates in the healing, then that can catapult and kind of push the relationship to more of an opportunity for him to heal because I can tell you there's something going on with him to be that defensive, right? It doesn't excuse his behavior, but it can explain it. But you don't have to wait on him to heal or to participate before you can heal and that's the good news of the gospel.

Brian Perez: Indeed. Dorothy, thank you so much for calling in today. And the Intimacy and Marriage Weekend Intensive that we keep talking about is happening next weekend, February 13th through the 15th in Orange County, California. You can still sign up at newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Laura Mangin McDonald is one of the presenters at this intensive and we really do think that you and your husband would benefit from this. So come on out, we hope to see you there at the Intimacy and Marriage Weekend.

Let's go to Washington, DC now. Here is Betty, who's listening to us on SiriusXM Channel 131. Hey Betty, welcome to New Life LIVE.

Betty: Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking my call. I've really appreciated your ministry. I've been listening, I found y'all a few months ago and I've been listening ever since. This is out of my comfort zone. I've never ever called in to a program on live before.

But I'm kind of desperate for help and advice. I'm a believer, a follower of Jesus and I've been saved for many years, thank God. I go to a fairly large Baptist church and I spoke to my pastor yesterday, asked if I could meet with him to discuss a situation concerning my son. And he said his schedule was booked until this coming Thursday and I thought, "Oh my goodness, I need to talk to someone before then."

So that's why I'm calling. This past Friday, my son who's 12 suffers with severe ADHD and has therefore lots of outbursts and lots of inability to control behavior, even though he is on medicine. When he's coming off his medicine is when the behavior usually gets bad. In the last two months, he has spit in my face, he's hit me in the face, he's put his hands around my neck like to choke me.

And I don't get a lot of support at home. My husband, who claims to be a Christian, has just never really been a spiritual leader. So he just I even called the police after he hit me and they just said, "You need to talk" they asked if I had any support at home and I said, "Well, not really" and they said, "Well then you need to go to counseling."

But anyway, my husband and I have been married over 13 years and we've been to probably 13 counselors in 13 years and nothing has helped. But getting back to my son, his brother who's nine, my younger son, tossed a water bottle that was empty and it hit him. It hit him. He was standing up and I'm not sure exactly where it hit him, but it hit him.

And so my older my 12-year-old took a water bottle that was half full and hit my younger son at close range in the face. And of course he started crying. And so I got up and I took his phone away. And thank God I did. My husband said he had been monitoring his text messages back and forth that he'd been communicating with people. My son, he met someone I think that was the biggest mistake I think I've ever made was giving my son a phone last Christmas. He met someone on Roblox that he's been communicating with that apparently lives in California and he thinks it's another boy his age.

Well, so my husband and I have been every now and then monitoring his phone, but then on Friday when I took his phone and he had such a his response to me taking his phone, he started chasing me. I had to run into another bedroom, I locked the door and he actually kicked a hole in the door to get to his phone because he didn't want me to read it.

And so I started when my husband finally did get him calmed down, I started reading and a message that he had sent to this other apparently I guess it's a boy, I really don't know and in and on top of everything he told me two years ago that when he was at a Christian camp with his dad that he got saved. And so I, you know, here I'm thinking and then my younger son got saved this Thanksgiving so I was the happiest mom in the whole wide world.

Well but then he here on Friday I just I was devastated when I started reading these text messages and he said, "I want to kiss" and I won't say the name, so bad, this is my son talking. And then he says, "and cuddle" and then there's back and forth and then he says, "do you think she wants to have sex when she laid on my thing?"

This is my son talking. And why did she want to lay on me though? And then there was a response and then he says, "Yep, it felt good. But when I got horny, she felt it and not much I could do. I just hope that she would be good." And then a few lines down he says, "But she wants something else, too." And then I go to this other text to another friend who asked him, "How's school going?" and he said, "Good. Oh, and this kid got suspended because he said he wants to this girl in her ass."

Mark Cameron: Betty, I think we're getting a good picture of what you're struggling with here and this is a lot for you. Yeah, and so this is hard for any parent to deal with, especially to feel like you're alone in a relationship in terms of dealing with this stuff. You said that it sounds like your husband is a little checked out here. I don't know if speaking with your pastor is going to be the person who's going to be able to provide you the best advice here. I do think that you need a therapist and I would recommend a family therapist.

If you guys you and your husband have seen a couples therapist before, I would recommend a family therapist who's taking into account the whole system that is going on here because your son he's at an age, 12 years old, where his hormones are just starting to really shoot off inside of him. And so it's normal adolescent behavior to want to explore. Now of course, what the things that he's saying here are concerning and I think you have every right to be concerned, but just the the feelings that are going on inside of him and the exploration is normal adolescent behavior.

He needs someone to be able to talk that through with and right now he's going to a peer or who he thinks is a peer, this person in California, which we don't even know who this is. This could be an adult. So I think every parent has something called parental prerogative, meaning that if you realize that something is harmful for your child and that you've made the wrong decision, you should reverse that decision. If you've given a phone too early and you realize that you shouldn't have done that, you have the right to reverse that decision because it's harmful for your son to keep doing it.

Now, you are going to get pushback in that because once you give a phone to a kid, they assume ownership of it and now you're taking their rights away versus giving them a restriction. And this is where you may need help. And I'm hearing, too, you have an ADHD son. I have an ADHD son, too. He's 20 years old now. But I remember going through some really hard times with him. And your son is getting older, he's getting bigger, he's getting stronger, and he's got a lack of impulse control. And the fact that he strangled you, I think you said, is very concerning. So you need immediate help and I would steer you towards somebody who has expertise, licensed clinical professional expertise in this. And I think family therapy would be the way to go. What do you think, Laura?

Laura Mangin McDonald: Yes, I'm agreeing with you completely, Mark. As you were talking, I was writing down "disregulated." And then it made me think of years ago when I used to be a director of a psych unit. We would have what's called the identified patient. And I would classify your son as he's the identified person who's saying he's sending out a plea of help. There's something wrong with our family. But he doesn't have the cognitive articulation to express his unsafe emotions he's experiencing.

Now, I'm not in any way saying that his choking you or his dysregulation that is causing fear in the family is okay, but I'm saying there's a reason for the kind of crazy feel, right? And now I'm ADD, but I don't go and choke people and I don't threaten. So he has the ADD as a diagnosis, but it's I think that there's more of the conflict that's happening in the family and you said that your husband's checked out. And a boy needs a father to be walking with him.

And that's not to make you feel bad in any way, but we've got to look at all the things that are going on here. And so as a 12-year-old has a phone, it needs to be understood. I will take your phone. This is a means of getting ahold of me, us getting ahold of you. But this is too much power to have in your hands. I need to check this and we'll go over this together that we'll monitor this, right? But when you went to take away his phone, it's almost like taking away the heroin from an addict or the alcohol from an alcoholic and he flipped because that's his addiction. That's where he finds relief. Doesn't make it okay, but an addiction is a legitimate need being met in an illegitimate way.

So I just want to give you these pieces of the puzzle. All of this, the good news is all of this makes sense. This is not just some hole that you're being buried in, but you do need to get to a licensed therapist. And there are licensed marriage and family or licensed professional. Ask them if they have experience in internal family systems. Do they know what it's like have they worked with families who have a child that's acting out in the family? That's what you need. Your pastor will be well-meaning, but I'll just go on and say he does not have the education, training, or license to walk you through this. But I'm so sorry, but there is hope.

Mark Cameron: And we're not saying don't share with your pastor. You need community, too. What we're saying is if he doesn't have a license, don't expect that he may have all of the solutions for you and the guidance for you.

Betty: Right. I will definitely look into a family counselor because my husband and I have been to counselors, but it's only we've never done a family, we've only been to marital. But do y'all think I took I haven't given him his phone back. I just want y'all's opinion. Do y'all think I overreacted? Should I keep his phone and not give it back?

Mark Cameron: People are going to have different opinions about this. I'll tell you my opinion about it. I think a phone is too much power for a 12-year-old to have and especially now you've got legitimate concerns about the things that he's communicating, people who he's reaching out to across the country who you don't even know who they are. I would recommend holding on to that phone. He can't keep himself safe with that phone and so I think it can end up being when we know that about our children, it can be negligent for us to give them a tool that we know they can't keep themselves safe with.

Laura Mangin McDonald: No phone. Validate his pain but say, "I get it, but this is my decision to protect you." It's like his heroin. So if it was heroin that he had in his bedroom and you took it from him, you're not going to say, "Okay, let me give it back to you." But it's his behaviors, too, that are really extreme that he needs help with. He needs help learning how to calm that storm on the inside and that's what he needs his parents for. And that's why he's dysregulated.

Brian Perez: Betty, stay on the phone and we'll put you in contact with a therapist in our network. Thanks for calling in today to New Life LIVE. We'll be back.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: Laura Mangin McDonald is on the show today with Mark Cameron and me. Laura's presenting a webinar in just a few weeks called From Pain to Peace: Healing After Betrayal. Laura, three questions for you. One, who's this webinar for? What type of betrayal will it help with? And what can attendees expect to learn?

Laura Mangin McDonald: Gosh, what three great questions. Well, I'm going to say for everyone because there's not any of us who have been living any amount of time that we haven't experienced betrayal. But oftentimes betrayal is kind of dumbed down like, oh, they didn't mean it, let's just forgive them. So there are well-meaning responses that just perpetuate the betrayal inside of us.

And I'm going to give a definition. Betrayal is a violation of trust, safety, or attachment by someone or a system we depended on for care, protection, or relational security. And what types of betrayal? There's attachment: parent rejection, emotional neglect, inconsistent caregiving. There's relational in marriage: divorce living duplicitous lives, financial betrayal, chronic lying, never know where you stand in the marriage, which we've had some calls about that today.

There's the institution: authority betrayal that happens in the church, the workplace, being falsely accused. HR leadership doesn't follow through, legal or medical facility did not follow through. School system not protecting a child. There's generational betrayal when a family system fails to speak up or protect someone's being molested and no one's doing anything, or maybe it's been years and someone confronts and it's like, "Hey, this just happens in families." So being the scapegoat, secrets, cover-ups, secrets make us sick.

Family members not defending. And then there's the development and pre-verbal. I see this a lot with adoptions, people who say, "Well we adopted them at birth, but what?" well because life begins in the womb and if that mother is anxious, is going through hardship, that's crossing over into the placenta of the baby and making that baby anxious and afraid some form. So we will there will be I can say this, there will be no stone that goes unturned. It will be a thorough look at betrayal and what we can do about it.

Brian Perez: And this is for men and women, unlike the Restore Healing After Betrayal intensive that's coming up next month. This webinar is for men and women. It's happening on the evening of February 26th at 7:00 PM Central Time. I already checked your calendar, you've got nothing planned that night. Except for this. That's right. If you do have something planned that night, go ahead and register anyway because after the webinar is done, we will send you a link that's good for about a week. Maybe you can watch it next weekend, but if you are able to join us live on the 26th, you would be able to take part in the Q&A that's going on.

So here's how to get more information. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE or go to newlife.com or text the word WEBINAR to 28950. And if you text WEBINAR to 28950, not only will you get more details about the From Pain to Peace webinar, but you will also get a free tip sheet about betrayal.

And I just want to say thank you to everyone for helping us get the word out about New Life and New Life LIVE, whether it's word of mouth or sharing our videos on social media. You're having an impact. And another way you can help us is to support us financially to keep making these videos, paying for airtime on the radio, and so many other things that we do. When people reach out to New Life searching for answers, healing, and the reassurance that they are not alone, it's your financial partnership that allows us to meet them where they are and provide real solutions. We are so thankful for your online gift at newlife.com or for phoning it in to 1-800-NEW-LIFE or texting NLM to 28950.

I want to go back to our previous caller, she's not on the phone right now, but Betty having the situation with her son, 12 years old, and she found all these explicit text messages and explicit language going on and everything and reminded me of an article that I came across not too long ago. Do you know your teen's password? Can you get into your teen's social media or email accounts? What about their phone? About half of parents say they know the password to their teen's email account, 43% know their teen's phone password, and just over a third know the password to at least one of their teen's social media accounts. So passwords, are they important? What would you say, Mark?

Mark Cameron: I think it's important to be able to track what your teens are doing online. It's normal development for them to want to have more privacy during this time, to look to peers and oftentimes media is viewed as a peer for information and that's common. But we don't want to lose connection with our child as being a voice and a light in their life.

And I think we want to limit until a child shows that they can demonstrate responsibility and accountability with a thing. And then also knowing the stage of development, they are going to be things that they're going to want to hide and you're not going to be able to manage every single aspect of their life. But what you want to do is you want to be able to maintain an ongoing open conversation with them where you can talk about character building things with them. And when they make mistakes, when you do discover things, that's not just about, well, I'm pulling this away and taking this away and this is a punishment and this is a restriction. Let's talk about what was behind that. Why did you want to seek to do that? What have you learned from this? How can I help with what you were struggling with here? Because we're wanting to prepare our kids for adulthood. We don't want to keep everything restricted and then now they're an adult and say, okay, there you go. Or some parents who continue to try to keep things restricted from their kids when they are in adulthood. There should be this progression that happens. But I am generally against giving a child a phone as ownership, "this is yours" or you get full access and we don't know what's going on.

Brian Perez: Laura, we've got about 90 seconds. Let me ask you this question. We talk about peer pressure all the time. So it could be the kid that's going to mom and dad saying, "But everyone else has a phone, why can't I have one?" But I want to talk about the peer pressure that the adults face because now they're thinking, "Well every other parent has given their kid a phone so maybe I should too." What do you say to those parents, Laura?

Laura Mangin McDonald: Well, that's where we've got to know who we are, right? Because what's going to happen in this time when the kids are leaving this younger adolescence and going into pre-teen to teen, it's their stage practice for life and everything that I haven't dealt with is going to be brought to the surface as far as feeling inadequate.

So my own self-awareness of going, okay, everyone else is doing this, that, but that doesn't mean that's good for our family. But to be able to balance validating going, "I hear you, I understand. I know you're mad at me but my love is big enough to hold your anger, right? I am right here with you. I won't leave you, I won't forsake you." So the parents need a safe place to go because 12 years old having a phone, unmonitored especially, is like going, "Hey, take my car and go around drive up here on the turnpike and let me know how that is." I mean, it's a setup. It is a setup. But especially in a family where connection is not at the foundation because of unresolved pain. It is just a disaster waiting to happen.

Brian Perez: Well, Laura, thank you for joining us this week here on New Life LIVE. We will see you again next weekend in Orange County, California. You'll be presenting the Intimacy and Marriage Intensive, can't wait for that. And then the betrayal webinar that's happening February 26th. You can find out more about it by texting the word WEBINAR to 28950. And the Restore Healing After Betrayal weekend intensive for women happening March 6th through the 8th in Dallas. More details at newlife.com. That's all the time we have for today's episode of New Life LIVE. We'll be back tomorrow. God bless you guys.

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