New Life LIVE

Announcer: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: We're so glad you've joined us today on New Life Live. Hard to believe it's Feb already, but it is. I'm your host, Brian Perez. If you've tried everything and nothing seems to work, try one more thing. Call us at 1-800-229-3000. We've got clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard in the studio for two hours today, as well as licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West. No question, no discussion is ever off the table. So call in. JJ, what's on your mind to begin today's episode?

JJ West: Happy Feb to you guys and to everyone out there. It is astonishing that we're already through the first month of the year. But what's on my mind is that every year, I try to do an annual read through the Bible in a year plan. Over the weekend, the reading plan called for some passages in Exodus. I came across the story in Exodus 18 where Moses is visited by his father-in-law, Jethro.

Jethro is excited about all that the Lord has done in bringing them out of Egypt, rescuing the Israelites from slavery, and setting them up into the Promised Land. Then the next day, Moses is sitting in judgment. He's presiding over all the cases of all the people, and it's from morning until night. Jethro pulls his son-in-law aside and says, "Listen, what you're doing isn't good. You're going to wear yourself out." In other words, Jethro says to his son-in-law, "You haven't learned to delegate. You're taking on too much."

He says, "This isn't good. What you need to do is learn to delegate. Pick out some trustworthy men who can serve as under-judges under you. They can handle the basic cases, and if there's anything that's too difficult, then that should come to you. In so doing, you won't wear yourself out, and the people won't be worn out waiting around all day to have their case heard."

Jethro says a very pivotal thing in verse 23. He says, "If God so commands." Moses listens to him. He doesn't just take Jethro's advice; he also checks in with God. God says, "Yeah, this is a good plan." So that's the new plan moving forward. I want to ask the audience this: Do you feel worn out? Do you feel like it's all on you? Do you feel that if you aren't taking responsibility for everything around you, it's just not going to get done, and then you're just exhausted?

My challenge to you would be to maybe take a step back and ask the Lord, "Is this me that I'm trying to meet what you've called me to meet, or is it just a need that someone else may need to step into that role?" Learn to delegate and learn to invite God into that process, not just assume if there's a need, I'm the one that's supposed to meet it. That way, we don't wear ourselves out because there are still 11 months left of this year. We need to be willing to share the load with others so that we don't get burned out and then crash.

Brian Perez: What happens if you feel like you don't have anyone that you can trust to ask for help?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: That is often the problem, right? Nobody can do it as well as I can.

JJ West: We pray God provide the people that need to meet this need and then trust that He will. But then we have to take a step back to let other people step into that role. Sometimes we don't give other people the opportunity because we believe no one can do it quite as well as me. Most of the time, that's true, right? Not so much. We need others. We need help. That's when pride kind of steps into the picture, and that's where we have to kind of look at pride, control, and all those things.

Brian Perez: All right, we've got some calls coming up. 1-800-229-3000. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call. One call to New Life Live could change everything.

If you're one of our monthly supporters, we're having our quarterly Zoom meeting tonight at 7:00 Central. If you're part of this group and need the link, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE right now so you can join. Our friend Dr. Jim Burns will be speaking on estrangement, and our friendly president Becky Brown will be sharing some exciting ministry updates. Again, this is for our monthly supporters. Get the link by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. It's happening tonight, so call right now.

If you want to talk to Dr. Jill Hubbard and JJ West, call 1-800-229-3000. Mark Cameron was here yesterday. JJ and Mark sound alike. We're basically the same person. I don't know what I was thinking. I guess I got Mark on my mind. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to reach us here in the studio for the next two hours. We're going to begin our time on the phones with Beth in Philadelphia, who's watching us on YouTube. How can we help you?

Beth: Hi. Most of us, except for my daughter, have just been sick with a stomach bug. She is really terrified of getting sick. She generally is a germaphobe to begin with, but she has a big phobia of throwing up to the extent that she hasn't wanted to sleep here the last couple of nights. I don't know if this is something that we should look into getting more help for her because she struggles with not always wanting to eat her lunch or something because she's not sure if she's feeling nauseous. I worry for her health and things like that with her worries over getting sick.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Beth, when she was young, did she have a horrible experience vomiting?

Beth: No, she didn't. She's been sick, but it wasn't horrible or anything. She doesn't recount that time when she was five and threw up.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay. Have there been people around you that have had illnesses or have died or anything like that that is kind of symbolic for her?

Beth: No.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay. So she has this fear of something invisible, germs, and it's focused on this area. Lots of us have issues that we try to control. It is never the main thing, but we think if we can control this, then we're going to be okay. It means we have to go a little deeper, though, because she's rearranging and organizing her life. It's fine to avoid people who are sick and to not want to be sick. All of that is fine. But you're telling me it's a next level where it's affecting her day-to-day life and how she organizes her life. Is that what I'm hearing?

Beth: Yeah. I think she can sometimes distract herself with things, but yeah.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So when it starts to become phobic, then like I said, we have to look a little deeper. How open is she to talking about her fears with you?

Beth: She'll tell me, "I was lying in bed worrying all night" or until she fell asleep or whatever. She'll tell me that she has worries a lot and shares them with me, but I just feel like I don't know how to help her.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: A lot of times, though, we stop at just the fear. "I'm afraid of this." Okay, but then what's next? How will that fear affect her? What will happen? Is there anything that she can do to help her fear? A lot of times we go into avoidance mode instead of looking at what is my real fear and then what can I do about it?

Brian Perez: Does this affect her at school?

Beth: I asked her if she ate her lunch yesterday, and she was like, "A little." So I think she's just not eating as much.

Brian Perez: How old is your daughter?

Beth: She's 11.

JJ West: You said that sometimes she is able to distract herself. There's a whole counseling theory, solution-focused therapy, that asks the question, "When is the problem not a problem? What's the exception to the rule?" And then, "What's different about those exceptions?" So when she's able to distract herself and not let the fear of having to throw up consume her, what's different about those times? What does she do to distract herself?

Beth: Probably uses her phone or is maybe with her friends that she's not focused on thinking about it.

JJ West: So that's a great place to start, is to sit down with her sometime in the next day or two and say, "I think that there are times when you're able to distract yourself and then the fear of throwing up doesn't seem to consume your thoughts. Is that true? And if so, do you notice that? And thirdly, what is it that you do that is effective in distracting you?"

Because as Jill was talking about, our feelings are there for a reason. God gives us our feelings to inform us, to let us know about something that's going on around us or something that's going on inside of us. But our feelings are there to inform us; they're not there to control us. We still make a choice on what I do with that information.

None of us like the feeling of throwing up. None of us like the feeling of being sick. None of us like that lack of control because very few people choose to throw up. It's something that's happening to me, so I don't feel in control. My body is doing something that I don't want it to do. Of course, that feels anxiety-producing; that feels fearful, just like I can't control whether a germ enters my body and makes me sick. That's normal to feel like I don't like that feeling, but I don't have to let that fear or that uncomfortableness with not being in control consume me to the point where I'm organizing my life around this fear. Instead, I can make choices for myself to say, "Yes, I don't want to throw up, but if that happens, is that the worst thing in the world?"

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And what is associated with the throwing up? Because it sounds like more than germs; it's really focused on the throwing up. Throwing up doesn't feel good. It may hurt. But are there other things? Does she have a fear of throwing up at school? That's why she's not eating. And if she threw up at school, she would be so humiliated and embarrassed. She's afraid of what her friends would think. So if she weren't afraid of throwing up, what else might she be afraid of? Looking stupid in front of her peers?

JJ West: Exactly. It's having that conversation with her to help her to dig into what is underneath that. Is it simply just "I don't want to throw up because that feels awful," or is it that she'll be embarrassed, or she'll be in pain, or she just doesn't like not being in control? At 11, she's becoming more peer-focused. So those are often driving forces.

JJ West: At 11, she's asking to sleep elsewhere because she doesn't want to get sick. Is that an option? Do you have relatives?

Beth: Yeah. My parents are five minutes away. She came home from a retreat and found out that we were sick, so she stayed there last night. Overall, she is kind of a germaphobe. She'll come home and wash her hands. Her hands bleed and are cracked in the winter because she's washing them all the time. She is very concerned about just getting sick in general.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: That falls into a bit of an OCD category, obsessive-compulsive disorder. I wonder if anyone else in your family has that because it is quite hereditary.

Beth: My husband's grandmother was very OCD. I think she was diagnosed.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And if she has anxiety too, underlying it is that feeling of out of control, and we can't control what we can't see, so we go to great lengths. So she may have a tendency to be like that. Part of in dealing with that, again, is having to lean into the fear. There are a lot of treatments that do exposure with response prevention. That's a form of therapy. So the fear of she's going to get sick, but then not washing her hands and having to sit with that. Now, that might be too much for her, but along those lines, having to realize we get sick, but then we get better, and that we can't control every variable is something she has to learn. But for some people, they need to eventually go on medication because the thoughts are so intrusive.

Brian Perez: I'm thinking too she's 11 years old. The whole COVID thing was five or six years ago. So from the age of five and six, she was hearing this constant "you've got to wash your hands, you've got to wear a mask, you've got to stay apart from people" and all that other stuff. People were dying. It's not just they're getting sick; they're dying. So that could have had a huge impact on her.

Beth: She was a germaphobe here, and school ended abruptly. I just wonder if that affected her.

JJ West: Very well could. So that's where you want to have those conversations. Be curious. Don't come in with a bunch of accusations or "I know this happened to you," but instead just asking questions. "What was that experience like for you?" The more you have those conversations, the more likely it is that it's going to help to mitigate her fear. But it may be, like Jill was saying, where it's going to be necessary to talk with a primary care physician or a therapist to talk through if there is more evidence of OCD-type behaviors.

Brian Perez: Especially with the family history, Beth. Thanks for calling us today on New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call us, and we're going to be in the studio for two hours. We would love to hear from you. We also love it when our listeners write to us. Here's a note we received from Richard.

"My life changed after attending the Every Man's Battle workshop a couple of years ago. Seeing my shame and guilt covered up with Jesus's blood overwhelmed me and released me to His love and grace. My journey continues with the Every Man's Battle podcasts. The sympathy and empathy episodes hit me right between the eyes as I had struggled to understand these things. Thank you, JJ and Doug."

JJ, we've got a rare opportunity to participate in Every Man's Battle without travel. It's a one-day online EMB coming up February 28. What does the day include?

JJ West: It's taking all the essentials of the workshop that we do in person and condensing them down into a day. You get all of the same stuff. You get the same material. You get the six sessions. You get five breakout sessions with a licensed facilitator that helps you process through the material. You get all of the workbook material that you get in person, and you don't have to travel.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: And you don't have to sleep in a room with someone you've never met before. So it's kind of an easy way to attend Every Man's Battle.

Brian Perez: Yeah, so if travel has ever been one of the reasons you've made excuses like, "Oh, I don't want to go to Orange County, I live out here in Vermont" or whatever the case might be, well, we're bringing it to you online February 28 from 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM Central time. You can get all the details at newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. We'll be back with more of your questions coming up.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. Hey, give us a call in the studio. We would love to speak with you. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call. I'm Brian Perez, here with JJ West and Dr. Jill Hubbard. 1-800-229-3000. And we've got the big game, the Super Bowl, coming up in just a few days. It's this weekend, this Sunday.

I just want to talk to people. What kind of advice would you give them? The Super Bowl, sports, there's the whole thing with sports betting and online gambling and things of that nature. And then there's drinking involved. For some people, this could push them over the edge. And then we also need to talk about the elephant in the room: the overeating that happens. Because I think I heard that Super Bowl Sunday is either the largest or the second-largest, only to Thanksgiving, of when people seem to eat the most. Seriously?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Chips and snacks and burgers. It's just constantly four quarters of that.

Brian Perez: So, I don't know. What advice would you give to people who maybe they know they have an issue with drinking too much or whatever the case might be?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Or you mentioned gambling too, right? I mean, it is fun to do the football pool and add a few bucks in. But it's another thing if you're doing really high stakes in that. And for some people, any holiday, even the manufactured Super Bowl holiday, is a reason, an excuse to overindulge. Because it's just a holiday, so it's like it doesn't count. It's not real life. It's this special occasion, this special exception. But the reality is it's still part of my life.

JJ West: So I need to wake up to that reality, that this isn't an exception, especially when we have so many of those exceptions that they become the rule.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Isn't that so true, JJ? It's like what's done in Vegas stays in Vegas kind of mentality with holidays. It doesn't count today. I'll do better tomorrow. Calories don't count on holidays for some reason.

JJ West: And now we're spoiling it for everyone. So what I suggest is to bring some other people into the conversation with you. If you know that your tendency is to overindulge with food or with alcohol or with betting or whatever, talk to some people about it. Don't try and just handle it on your own. Don't just make the decision in your own head, "Okay, I'm going to watch what I eat this Super Bowl Sunday," but I don't let anybody know. Then everybody's eating and the food looks so good and "Oh, I wanted to try that and oh, I wanted to try that" or I'm just in this mindless eating.

If I include some other people in the process to say, "Hey, I've recognized that I have a habit of overindulging with food on days like this, and I really want to be more mindful of what I'm eating, what I'm putting in my body. I want to be more mindful of being present with people and not just eating my feelings, numbing out with food or alcohol or whatever." I'm sharing this with you so that I'm giving an account because that's what accountability is. Accountability is not "you have to hold me accountable, you have to make me do what I don't want to do." Accountability is "I'm giving an account." So I'm telling you ahead of time that this is something that I want to commit myself to, and I'm going to give an account afterwards of how it went. Or if you're right there with me, you can see how it's going.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: It's kind of like the sandwich technique, where you check in with somebody before something significant and then you check in after. So they don't need to necessarily be watching you and checking up. You are choosing to be accountable to a person. Sometimes it doesn't go so well, and then you can talk through with them why it didn't go so well.

I think an added piece to that, that goes along with any holiday people getting together, that tends to trigger a lot of anxiety, is social anxiety. Showing up and being with people or if you're home alone and you didn't get invited to that party or whatever. I think we have higher expectations for special events and holidays that sometimes make us feel not so great. It has to be great because it's the Super Bowl. Or it is a real holiday like Christmas or Thanksgiving. So we do set these high expectations.

Again, having those conversations with others can help me to bring the expectation down to a more realistic level. I hope to have a good time. I want it to be a great time, but it might not be a great time. Doesn't have to be the best time. It can just be a nice time. And if I don't get invited to the party that I wanted to, well, what else can I do? Could I invite a couple of friends over and just enjoy the game with them or the holiday with them or whatever? So it's adjusting those expectations so that I don't just sit there being miserable or I'm sitting in the anxiety of "Oh gosh, what if this doesn't go according to my plan?"

Brian Perez: And for me, I need to look up and see who's even in the Super Bowl so that I at least go and I'm a little prepared. So I have to do a little homework before. I think it's the Yankees versus the Lakers this year, right? Something like that. Joking, joking. Seattle versus New England. That much I do know.

So let me point you to an article that you can read on our website newlife.com if you have a problem with gambling. It's called "Three Steps to Getting a Grip on a Gambling Addiction." You can find that at newlife.com. If eating disorders, if that's something that you struggle with, you can call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE and ask for the tip sheet called "Four Ways to Break Free from Binge Eating." We'll be back here on New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000.

Today's podcast is brought to you by Club New Life supporters who give a monthly donation because they want to continue to offer help and hope in these very, very difficult places. To find out more about Club New Life, you can go to our website newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now if you're new to us, we drop an episode every weekday. We would love it if you would rate or write a review, which helps more people discover help and hope and helps us share wisdom with as many people as possible. Now let's listen to our counselors as they help people walk through life's hardest places.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. Hey, give us a call in the studio. We would love to speak with you. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call. I'm Brian Perez here with JJ West and Dr. Jill Hubbard. 1-800-229-3000. No British accent today. That's right.

If you cannot call in, there's a few other ways that you can get your question to us. We like talking to you guys, but we understand you may not be able to call in when we're here in the studio. So we've set up a voicemail number and also an email address. You can find out both of those when you go to newlife.com/radio. So check that out.

Here's one of those questions that was submitted online via email. It is from Mary, who is a monthly financial supporter of New Life. Thank you very much, Mary. She writes, "How much help do I give my 34-year-old son with bipolar disorder and psychosis for the past six years? My son does not like taking the medications because he says he has no imagination when he takes them. So we tried everything to encourage him to take them for at least two years, like renting him an apartment so he could study to become a computer programmer, which he accomplished very well.

But he did not want to find a job and went homeless there for at least a year and a half. The longest he lasted taking the medications was three months when he was attending the university to get his PhD. He had to quit school because he could not stop medicating with marijuana and sometimes cocaine. He's homeless right now, but thank God he quit smoking cigarettes and marijuana. He's been begging me to rent him an apartment, and a Christian friend is encouraging me to do it, but he is not taking his medication.

He says once he has an apartment, he'll rest to recover from exhaustion of being homeless and then he'll work to help pay for the apartment and food. He's three hours away driving from where I live. He cannot live with me because he gets violent when he's not taking meds. Marijuana increased the psychosis. How do you recommend me to navigate this situation?" Mary wants to rent him the apartment also because he says he is very tempted to commit suicide. She thought about suggesting to him that he take the monthly injection before we agree to rent him the month-by-month apartment. If he doesn't take it after a month, she will not pay for the apartment. What would you say to Mary in this situation?

JJ West: I want to start off with. I appreciate the fact that she is setting boundaries for herself in relationship to him. That's really important. That's appropriate to say, "I'm willing to do this, but I'm not willing to do that." So he's asking, "Rent me an apartment and then I will do X, Y, and Z." No, I need evidence that you are committing to taking your medication before I agree. And if I do rent the apartment, it's going to be a month-to-month, not doing a 12-month lease. I think that's really smart of Mary to have those boundaries for herself.

I'm assuming, and I don't know that this is true, I'm assuming that you're having conversations, if you are married, you're having conversations with your spouse or with your son's father so that you guys are in agreement there, so that there's not conflict in your relationship that's being caused by you trying to help your son. And then the other thing I would say is, yes, of course, you want to help him. You love your son and you don't want harm to come to him.

But unfortunately, there are people that we love who make choices that cause bad consequences. It's so hard to watch that, and I'm so sorry for you that you have had to repeatedly watch your son make choices that lead to some pretty significant negative consequences in his life. But that's part of being in relationship with people, is that I can't fix, change, or control them. So I can't swoop in and rescue them from every consequence of the choices that they're making, even though that's really emotionally difficult.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Mary, this is heartbreaking. But I do appreciate, like JJ said, that you have been learning from the years of experience with your son. It does sound like you are holding on to history and realizing that his promises don't always come true. I think he's even upping the ante by saying he's tempted to commit suicide. Now, we do take it seriously when people say that, but it also can be a manipulation tactic like, "See, if you don't rent me the apartment, something really bad is going to happen." So he is feeling more desperate.

I get that what he says, he's not as imaginative. That can be true for so many people. That's why people with bipolar often don't like the medication. But I think if you get the right medication at the right dose, the upside, as we all know, is so much greater than what feels like a little loss of mania, which gives you a flight of ideas. Here he is, he's a smart guy and with lots of potential, but his mental health is getting in the way.

I think your plan is a good one. Sometimes it takes people several times going around the addiction bend and the mental illness cycle to finally have it be enough. I think you've put in the month-to-month, as JJ was repeating, is a good plan if you feel like you can do that, you have the resources. But I do like the commitment of him willing to either take the medication or the monthly injections to assuage his mental illness. I'm wondering if he admits to being mentally ill.

And then there's another route you could go. You might say, "If this doesn't work, son, then we need to look into a board and care." In a board and care, you're allowed to stay there, but they do monitor your medication. You can come and go as you please and go to work or unless you're on disability, but that's another option for him possibly down the road.

JJ West: Because the flip side of this is, if he continues to refuse, he continues to say, "No, it has to be the way I want it," which is "You rent me an apartment for a year and then I get stable and then I can do X, Y, and Z." If he continues to dig in his heels and refuse the care that you're offering or even refuse that next step that Jill was talking about with the board and care, unfortunately, what's going to end up happening is he's going to end up where he's on the street full-time. He's going to end up where he possibly has legal issues because in many communities, it's a crime just to be homeless because you're not allowed to sleep in the public park. You're not allowed to be here taking a shower. So he may end up having legal issues where then all the control that he's wanting to have is taken from him because he's in jail.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: But I think he does sound a little bit desperate and he's wanting off the streets. So he might go for your plan. You're doing this out of love, but "This is what works for me, son, and this is what doesn't work. Because if you see that your helping isn't helping, well, then you've got to do something different because you just can't keep doing the same thing." He's using substances, although it sounds like he quit, to self-medicate. That's always the irony. People say, "Oh, I don't want to use medication." Okay, but you're smoking marijuana, you're doing cocaine. That is medication.

The irony of that, and it has a different side effect. So maybe the bipolar medication limits your imagination, your creativity, but the marijuana, especially if it's laced with stuff, which most of it is, it's inducing this rage where you're violent or you're psychotic. So you're picking which consequence is acceptable to you and which isn't.

Brian Perez: It's so difficult for parents to see their kids going through something like this, and they just want to help. Moms especially, they just feel that "I can't have my son living on the streets or anything." I think sometimes, and I'm not saying this is the case with Mary, but maybe guilt plays into it as well because they start thinking, "What did I do wrong?" Instead of realizing there's so many other factors. By the time they're 34, they're making a lot of their own decisions, and the mental illness is talking through him.

But so many people live with bipolar and are able to manage and control the episodes and live regular lives. So there is hope if you can get them to that point of acceptance. Mary, maybe reading Doing Life with Our Adult Children or Loving Someone with a Bipolar Disorder could be helpful. Doing Life with Your Adult Children is available for purchase in the newlife.com store. Mary, thank you so much for submitting your question online and for being a monthly financial supporter of New Life.

Michael, you're next on New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. Okay, let's go to the phones now. 1-800-229-3000. I could have sworn I saw a Megan up there, but it says Michael. So either I read the name wrong or Megan hung up. Megan, if there is a Megan out there, call us back because we're going to be in the studio for another hour after this anyway at 1-800-229-3000. But Michael, calling in from Silver Spring, Maryland, listening to WAVA. Welcome to New Life Live.

Michael: Hello there. Got some questions. I was told I was bipolar decades ago. Well, it probably has been 15, 20 years. I've been taking Olanzapine and Fluoxetine. It's at the minimum dose, and I'm wondering: Can I stop taking the medicine because I found out that's why probably caused my diabetes? But I'm not the same man I was back then. I'm not suicidal or anything. Is there a test to say that you're bipolar or is it that I'm just struggling from sleep disorder?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So, Michael, a doctor diagnosed you as bipolar?

Michael: A psychiatric ward did.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Were you diagnosed with Bipolar 1 or Bipolar 2?

Michael: 2.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: So that is like unipolar depression. You've never had a full-blown manic episode.

Michael: I don't know what a manic episode is. What's that?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Like a high, flight of ideas, so much energy you can't sleep, doing things that are out of character, lots of risk-taking behavior, gambling with money you don't have or shopping with money you don't have, or lots of sexual behavior.

Michael: Well, that I did lots of. I spent more money than I had for years.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Is that a consistent behavior, or there are just certain times or you did that before you went into the hospital?

Michael: Even after the hospital, I kept buying real estate seminar crap over and over again and never made any money.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Okay. So what Bipolar 2 can be, it's the depressive side with hypomania, which isn't a full-blown manic episode that makes you almost psychotic, but it's times of feeling extra good, and maybe that's when you've been doing the spending. Regardless, I can understand if you're feeling less depressed and you're feeling like life is going well, why do I need these meds?

I've had people over the years who have been suicidal and they're on a low dose of an antidepressant, like less than therapeutic dosage. And they say, "Well, I don't need this; I hardly have any of it." They go off of it, and three months later they're suicidal. It's because the medication was actually helping, and they attribute the doing better to "I'm just doing better."

So I understand you not wanting to be on medication, but it's not something you should ever just go off of by yourself. So if you're under a psychiatrist's care, it's something to discuss with your psychiatrist. What is the risk involved in going off of it? Or is there another medication that wouldn't affect you, because it sounds like because you're feeling like it has adverse side effects for you. So there might be another medication that they've come up with since you started this journey that wouldn't affect your diabetes in the way these are affecting it. But I think you really have to proceed with caution and be under constant doctor's care.

Michael: I ran out of medications. I was without medications for about two weeks, maybe three, because of missed appointments and the doctor was sick. All of a sudden you have no medications and you can't sleep but maybe two hours a night for two weeks.

Brian Perez: So Michael, you're saying that when you were off of the medication for two or three weeks, it caused you to be sleepless. Correct. So that sounds like a pretty significant consequence to not being on the medication. Why would you want to stop it?

Michael: I mean to be by the doctor to wean you off the medication safely.

Brian Perez: Gotcha. So you're wondering, if I wean off, will I still have those effects, that side effect of being sleepless?

Michael: Well, yeah, to all of a sudden stop taking psych meds instantly, cold turkey. That's not a good strategy.

JJ West: Agreed. Like what Jill was saying, that you want to do it under the care of your prescribing physician. And I would also add, you want to have a structure in place for how will I evaluate whether the result of not taking the meds, once I've weaned off, how will I be able to evaluate whether I like that outcome or whether I need to go back on the same meds or a different med?

Who's in your life? Your prescribing physician, family, friends. Who are the people in your life who are going to be observing what's happening with you to help you determine whether or not this is what you want to stay with, if this is a strategy that is in fact accomplishing what you wanted to accomplish and that the side effects are minimal?

Dr. Jill Hubbard: People do try this, Michael. So it isn't unheard of what you're proposing. But yes, weaning very slowly, constant appointments with the doctor. And yes, definitely your spouse or whoever is closest to you and sees you regularly, have them almost go with you to the doctor to report what they are seeing. Because sometimes as individuals, we don't see and realize the impact on the people around us, and they see it more clearly. Michael, what do you think?

Michael: I think I was committed to taking the medicines. I talked with the doctor in December, and he's just giving me a pass. "Oh yeah, you're doing great. Here's your meds and see me in three months." I told him, "I'm not so sure about this," and told him I really wanted to check in with him in January, although I haven't done it this month.

JJ West: You wanted to check in with him about the idea of going off of the meds?

Michael: Right. And he said he could do that. But I'm afraid of taking it off the meds and starting to get on the medication merry-go-round. I was afraid of that.

Dr. Jill Hubbard: Well, yeah, I guess you have to ask yourself: What's the upside and what is the downside? Because you know these medications have helped you with the bipolar symptoms, but they're causing other things. So that has to be weighed out, cost-benefit always. There's no perfect medication.

Brian Perez: Michael, thank you so much for your phone call today here on New Life Live. We appreciate your listening to us there in Silver Spring, Maryland on WAVA and calling in today. Now, we're going to be in the studio for another hour. So if you want to talk to Dr. Jill Hubbard or JJ West, 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call us. If you're watching on Facebook or YouTube right now, the lines are open for you as well. We would love to hear from you.

We love that you guys chat amongst each other there on the social media streams, but we want to chat with you too. So call in. We would love to talk and figure out how we can help you with whatever it is that you're going through. The number again is 1-800-229-3000. For Dr. Jill Hubbard and JJ West, I'm Brian Perez, and we'll talk to you next time on New Life Live.

Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.