New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Did you wake up today feeling exhausted from saying yes to everyone? Then call in to 1-800-229-3000. We'll help you set boundaries and learn how to start saying no. And if you're thinking, "But then people won't like me," then we definitely need to talk. I'm Brian Perez, joined in the studio for the next two hours by licensed marriage and family therapist, Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris. How are you, Jackie?

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: I'm doing well.

New Life: And clinical psychologist, Dr. Alice Benton's here too. Her second appearance of the week, and she's not done yet. Alice, nice to see you again.

Dr. Alice Benton: Thank you, likewise. I'm thinking about whether you have built the kind of life you don't want to escape from. And if not, what is keeping you from getting into that building or rebuilding process?

We have worked with people who tell us that they pause before opening their front door because they don't want to go inside to all the discord and the anger and the tension in their own home. Have you ever sat out in the parking lot before going into work, dreading it and having to force your body to open that car door and walk into your place of employment? When you see a phone call come in from your spouse, from your children, from your in-laws, do you wish you didn't have to answer?

If you have experienced those feelings, you're certainly not alone. I would say more of us experience that than not. But the big question and the difference maker is: What are you willing to do about it? What kind of help are you willing to receive?

When I grew up in church as a child, I'm grateful that my parents brought us up in church, but I really never read the Bible until I was in my late 20s. I didn't know that it's chock-full of promises—really juicy promises. Promises like God will make a way out. He will teach us how to be content in any situation. And He will use even bad things for the good of those who believe in Him. We can claim and live out those promises, but not easily and not without help.

There are effective growth steps that are already well-mapped out for pretty much the general problems that humans experience, because there's not a whole lot new when it comes to human problems. If you have been a listener to New Life for years—and many of you have, and we're so grateful that you are—have you listened without taking action?

If so, we want to know what's stopping you. For most of us, we're scared, embarrassed, or ashamed. And we've been making excuses. "I don't have the time," "I don't have the money." But the time will pass anyhow, and problems that are unattended to tend to worsen over time. They don't resolve just because the hours and the days are clicking away.

I wanted to grow myself from being basically a doormat and a yes-man to someone who's assertive. It has taken me years of individual therapy, group therapy, medication, supplements, EMDR, and then practicing with a loving, truthful, supportive group. But I have grown and I am different than I used to be. But I had to go through a process of, "Well, I want to want to change, but I'm not ready to yet." I had to admit to God, "I want to take those good steps I hear on the New Life radio show, but I still have too many excuses." If you're also in that position, call us today. We can help get you unstuck.

New Life: It reminds me of what the Bible says about the sins of omission. Where you know the sins of commission are the sins that you do that you shouldn't, but the sins of omission are the things that you know you need to do, but you have not done. We can help you with that today here on New Life LIVE. Alice, thank you for your opening remarks there. Very encouraging. So call in. What is it that's stopping you from moving to the next level in life, to get closer to the Lord, closer to your family, or make amends with your family? We're here to help you for two hours today at 1-800-229-3000. Christopher, you're next.

To find more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. Subscribe to the New Life YouTube channel. You can watch the live stream of the show and connect with other great video content, like the Every Man's Battle podcast and the Life Recovery Today TV show. Make sure to give a thumbs up to each video of ours that you watch. If you're watching right now, thank you. Call in. We'd love to talk to you at 1-800-229-3000. We're going to be here for two hours today. It's Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris and Dr. Alice Benton. On the phone we've got Christopher, who listens to us in Los Angeles on the New Life app. Hello, Christopher, welcome.

Guest (Male): Hi, Brian. Hi, Jackie. Hi, Alice. How are you guys doing?

New Life: Doing well, thanks.

Guest (Male): Alice and Jackie, I have a question for you. I've been listening to you guys for about three years on the iHeartRadio app, and I really, really like your program. Thank you for everything that you guys do every day. Thank you. This is the situation I'm in. It's kind of embarrassing to ask, but I have a problem with masturbation. I do it every day. It's embarrassing because I don't know why I do it. I don't want to be too graphic, but I do it every day and I'm very embarrassed about the whole thing.

Dr. Alice Benton: Christopher, we're so proud of you that you're pushing past the embarrassment to ask anyhow. We do understand. It's an issue that we've worked with many times with men and women, and there is a reason why you feel compelled into this daily habit. Thank you for having the courage to call and talk about it with us. We'll be glad to give you advice. Christopher, would you tell us a little bit more about your life situation? Are you married? Do you have children? What's life looking like for you these days?

Guest (Male): I'm single. I had a girlfriend a long time ago, maybe like five, six years ago, but things didn't work out for the best for me, so I dumped her. That's a different story why I did it and stuff. But what was the question again?

Dr. Alice Benton: Do you have children?

Guest (Male): No, thank God.

Dr. Alice Benton: And are you employed? What do you do?

Guest (Male): No, I'm on social security right now.

Dr. Alice Benton: And would you tell us what your relationship was like with your dad growing up? How did he do mentoring, loving you, guiding you?

Guest (Male): He basically wasn't there. My mother—this is kind of embarrassing too, but kind of hurtful to me because I was dealing with it for so many years before my dad took me away from her—she was abusive to me. Every time I would wet the bed, she would grab my head and bang it against my window, my camper window, really hard. She would scream at me. She would do everything under the sun to me. It was not pretty. My dad got tired of it and took me away from her for that situation. Then my dad was never there for me. He basically abandoned me as a kid, so I grew up with nobody.

Dr. Alice Benton: So when your dad took you away from your mom, how old were you?

Guest (Male): Probably about eight or nine years old.

Dr. Alice Benton: And did you continue to live with him after that?

Guest (Male): Yes, I did, until I was about 15 or 16.

Dr. Alice Benton: And then what happened?

Guest (Male): Well, this is another situation too, that happened to me as a child. I was molested as a kid when I was about 12 or 13 by a 60-year-old man. I never got the help for what happened to me, so I went ahead and did it to my dad's girlfriend's children. I molested them because I didn't know that was wrong. Then I got arrested and that's a whole different story in its own.

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: It's quite possible that it is all connected. Sounds like you had some interpersonal trauma, difficulty with your mom, the abuse around bedwetting. No one taught you how to soothe yourself and soothe your hurts in a healthy way. What you learned was distorted and probably by the molestation, you got a distorted view of pleasure.

Dr. Alice Benton: Christopher, you know how when a baby is crying, it needs an attentive adult to come over and figure out if they have a wet diaper, do they need a bottle, are they uncomfortable? We all need that attentive adult to figure out what are your hurts and how can I fix it.

Your parents did the opposite. They added hurt to your life. I'm sure they had some good qualities, but they added hurt rather than protecting and caring for you. When a baby is well-cared for, it learns how it takes in and internalizes that care, and then it's able to care for itself as it grows up or is able to get the help it needs from other people. But when a child is so neglected and abused, that child usually withdraws from people because they're hurtful and stays isolated, lonely, embarrassed, and ashamed, feeling like something's wrong with me and I don't think people like me. Does some of my description fit for you?

Guest (Male): Yes.

Dr. Alice Benton: Are you withdrawn? Are you kind of isolated in your life now?

Guest (Male): Yes, I am. I stay to myself all the time in my room. I go outside and get fresh air. I go for bus rides on the Metro almost every day. Just to get out of the house and get a breeze and stuff. But other than that, I just stay to myself in my room, lock the door and everything. I shut everybody out.

Dr. Alice Benton: I want to applaud you that you figured out that riding the bus is a legal, healthy, moral way to take care of yourself. That's actually very wise that you figured that out. What I would advise for you is figuring out other additional ways to be comforted that align with your spiritual beliefs rather than that break your spiritual beliefs.

As you've been a listener for three years, you know this: One of the strongest ways to get comfort is to get healthy, safe people into our life that we can allow to comfort us. But the world has told you people aren't safe. So sometimes you have to start with a professional relationship where there is legal structure that keeps you safe. A therapist is held to a high level and is then a trustworthy person to not abuse you, to not take advantage of you. What has held you back, Christopher, from getting that level of professional help in your life before?

Guest (Male): Well, I don't like sometimes therapists. I've had a therapist in the past and she dug into my abusive relationship with my mother and father too much. I couldn't take it anymore. So I told her, "Look, I'm done with you. You're just not focusing on everyday life with me. You're always focused on the past. Why do you keep bringing up the past? I want to move forward, not look back." She's like, "Well, that's part of therapy." Yes, I understand that's part of therapy, but I've had a bad past and I don't want to think about it. You know what I mean, Alice?

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: That makes sense that you don't want to think about it. Sometimes that's what keeps us stuck, because we stop right at the precipice, right at the door of what the challenge really is. Rather than moving through it, we get stuck right there in it. You have done that work and yes, it is painful. It is difficult to walk back through our hardship, through our childhood.

We always have to keep in mind our parents did the best they could with what they had. This isn't about blaming parents, but we do need to look back and go, "Oh, that's why I do this. Oh, that's how I learned that. Oh, that's what I missed." Then that informs our growth. Looking back at your childhood is a necessary part of doing the work for the everyday problems, because your problems today didn't begin today. They began in your childhood. They began with your parents. They began in all those experiences that you were so vulnerable to share with us today, which we really appreciate. Would you be willing to go back to therapy? Could we help connect you with a Christian counselor and maybe a life recovery group in your area so that you can start to do consistent work? If this is an everyday problem, it's going to need a consistent solution. You need relationship in order to heal. We grow and heal in the context of healthy relationships, and a healthy professional therapeutic relationship, I think, is really a great starting place for you.

Guest (Male): Thank you. Yes, I'm willing to do this. How do I do it?

Dr. Alice Benton: Stay on the phone and we'll tell you. It's okay to enter into therapy and group and say, "I'm not ready to talk yet. I need to sit here for a while before I share my story." It's okay to tell a therapist, "You're asking about my history, you've got to help build up my strength more because I'm not ready to talk about it yet." We've worked with many clients who needed a long relationship-building phase. Then when we talked about the traumatic past, it had to be in small pieces because they couldn't tolerate more than that. That sounds like that fits for you. If you said yes, you'll let us connect you. I want you to tell your therapist that from the very beginning. You've got to go very slow with me. I'm not ready to talk about the past.

But I also want to point out, Christopher, you did talk about the past with us. And I hear in your voice you're okay because you could tell us but you needed us to not probe too much into it. Being proactive in how you help direct your therapist—because really you get to be in charge of the therapy—is important. My clients tell me, "No, I'm not ready for that yet, Alice. Don't ask me that. No, you're pushing too much." It's my job to back off and then to figure out how can I get them safe and comfortable enough to be able to re-enter. And Christopher, in these three years you've been listening, you know that our Every Man's Battle is the most effective jumpstart. Some parts of it are a lot of listening. You'd be a part of a group as well and you'd be asked to talk, but even in that group it's okay to say, "I'm not ready to share my story yet." There's an Every Man's Battle coming up that's online, one day. It's so accessible. Please consider letting us connect you there too.

Guest (Male): Yes, I'm willing to do this.

New Life: Christopher, that's great. Well, stay on the phone and we'll tell you. And right now I'm going to tell everyone else, so you can keep listening to. The Every Man's Battle one-day online format is happening at the end of this month, the last day of the month, February 28th. It's a 12-hour day and you are going to get so much information in those 12 hours, and this will help you immensely. If you sign up by this Friday, you'll get a discount, so please take advantage of that too. We also have the three-day weekend workshop. The next one is happening April 24th in Washington, DC.

Dr. Alice Benton: Brian, I've just worked with so many men, I'm sure Jackie has too, who figured out as a young child that masturbation was one of the only ways to escape horrific family environment. It makes it so understandable that a body needs comfort, and if it's not getting it from the providers, then it needs to figure it out for itself.

Of course masturbation is one avenue to do that. We know it causes problems if that becomes the sole and primary source of comfort, and it may not align with your spiritual beliefs. So let us help teach you through Every Man's Battle. There are so many other more effective ways to get comfort and then that becomes a replacement, a much more effective replacement for masturbation.

New Life: Christopher, thank you so much for calling in today. We're sure lots of people that are listening right now and watching were encouraged by what you said, because maybe they're struggling through the same thing. We'd like to talk to you as well. We're going to be in the studio for two hours today. Here's our number: 1-800-229-3000.

To find more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. Destructive patterns thrive in isolation, as we just heard with our call from Christopher. Freedom requires more than sheer willpower. New Life Christian Recovery Groups offer the antidote: a safe place to shed the shame and get raw accountability rooted in biblical truth and the shared commitment to eradicate unhealthy behaviors once and for all. Visit newlife.com for information on connecting to a community that won't let you settle. And call us today. We're going to be in the studio for two hours at 1-800-229-3000.

Really quick, just to go back to what we were discussing with Christopher. He called in, his main question was, "I masturbate all the time. How do I stop?" He mentioned some of the things he'll do: go on bus rides, just to get out of the house. What other practical solutions might there be out there for him?

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: I think it's different for every person. I think the most important thing is getting underneath what is causing the isolation and the extreme need for self-soothing in that way. We soothe ourselves in various different ways. It depends on what we enjoy. For some people it's chocolate cake. But we have to figure out what's the healthiest thing for each individual. That's why counseling is the best way to go. I think it's a very individual experience and we have some similarities in how it gets started just developmentally and being exposed. But the thing that's going to change it for people can differ, and counseling is a good place to be able to walk through that.

Dr. Alice Benton: The men I've worked with who have succeeded have told me that getting honest, especially with their partner, having daily accountability phone calls, brief phone calls with other men, a 90-day group—going to one group every day, 90 groups in 90 days—has helped them to break the habit. And prayer, exercise, and a hobby. Things like doing artwork, starting to play music, finding pleasure in an activity that is not a sexual activity.

New Life: 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call us. By the way, we've also got a couple of ways that you can get your question to us if you can't call in when we're here in the studio. If you go to our website, newlife.com/radio, that'll show you how to leave us a voicemail or how to send us an email. Alice, you look like you want to say something.

Dr. Alice Benton: This applies for females as well. We don't talk about it much. We don't talk about it enough. But young women in their 20s and 30s, especially with exposure to pornography, are also engaging more in masturbation. It does tend to be—men tend to have more of a vulnerability to it than women, but those numbers are shifting. So ladies, we're talking to you and we can provide you help as well.

New Life: Here's another thing. If you want to call us today, but you don't want to use your real name, you can change your name. You can change your city. You can change your voice or something, just so that if you're afraid that people are going to recognize who you are, just do that. But you need to get help. So call in today to 1-800-229-3000.

So here's that question I was going to read. It is from Jackie, not our Jackie, but the question is: "I'm dating a man who confessed that he had been addicted to porn, but says he completely recovered a year ago. He doesn't follow a program. He does not have an accountability partner. He said he just did not want to do it anymore and he stopped. My last relationship was to a man addicted to porn, and I don't want this to happen again." Jackie's question: "Is it possible to fully recover from a porn addiction without counseling and accountability?" Jackie, what do you tell Jackie?

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: Yes and no. It's possible. People have done it, just like it's possible to recover from a drug addiction or an alcohol addiction without a program or counseling or accountability. People stop all kinds of things without those types of support. It is easier to have some support and having accountability when you're in a relationship. Having that accountability is helpful for that partnership because then it helps them know what's going on.

The question, though, "is it possible?" doesn't really address the problem that Jackie has, which is she's dating someone with a past porn addiction, he says, and she's been through that before. So my question is: do I go through it again? The question is: does he need to get into counseling and have an accountability partner for me to be comfortable moving forward in this relationship? And I think Jackie needs to answer that question for herself. And the answer is yes. That's what you are asking for as a sign that this is not going to be something that negatively impacts your relationship going forward.

If you're in relationship with someone who has a porn addiction and that is something that you need in order to feel that they are making a commitment to the change, then that is something that you ask for and working with a counselor can help you to do that. But if it's not a relational request, the person saying that they've done the work and they've changed—there's nothing we can do to know whether that's true or not for them. We'll be making a demand on them based on our feelings, and we're not in their experience.

Dr. Alice Benton: Jackie, I hope I'm wrong, but I'm getting the image of a fox saying, "I'm not eating the chickens anymore," but he still has chicken feathers in his teeth.

I imagine a fox with chicken feathers in his teeth because although it is possible, I have talked with probably three people in my entire career who suddenly stopped an addictive behavior and did not restart it, did not relapse back into it. But those people who didn't relapse back into it, they did a lot of work. They added in all those things your boyfriend is saying he doesn't need.

We all need those things he mentioned for sanctification. So yeah, we can quit one unhealthy habit, but we usually just swap it with another. It goes underground and it resurfaces in another way and another area. And with how inundated he is and all of us are with sexual content, those chicken feathers in the teeth—it's just it's going to take superhuman strength. Actually, it's going to take a community and recovery to stay away from that porn addiction and to figure out why he had it in the first place. That's really even more important than the addiction itself. What was the addiction doing for him? And now where is he getting that comfort, that soothing that we were talking about with Christopher in our last call?

So yes, we can stop an addictive behavior suddenly. It's pretty miraculous. It's very rare. But it doesn't result in character growth and sanctification. Jackie, I wish I had known when I was dating what really shows how safe a person is. If they know they're broken and they know they can't fix themselves. They need a program, a process, and people to be able to get those character fixes, and they're going to need it for their entire lives. That's what shows who a safe person is and who they will continue to work to be. So I'm not saying dump the guy, but I am saying have him listen to our call, see how he reacts. See if he gets angry and defensive, and "they don't know what they're talking about." Or see if he gets humble and says, "Oh, okay, that gives me some food for thought. I don't want to be the fox with the feathers in my teeth. I want to be a safe man that you don't have to worry about my sexual fidelity."

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: I really agree with what you said, Alice. When there is a problem and we won't acknowledge it, we're not going to do anything about it. So the stopping of the porn was a shift, but where's the problem? The porn was just a symptom of something. And so now I sense an avoider avoiding. Not going to do counseling, don't need accountability, "I got this, I'm fine, I can handle it."

They believe that to be true, and so you're probably not going to convince them otherwise. But then that poses a problem for Jackie. And Jackie, I wonder if this is more of a trial for you than for him, because you have the data. You've been on this journey before. You know what that experience was like for yourself. So more than is this person actually sober, I'm curious about are you? What is the work that you're doing so that if you are going to be in a relationship with anyone, you're okay, you're meeting your needs, you're taking care of yourself, you have someone that you can talk to about things? So that you're not getting into the mind games and things that sometimes happen when we're dealing with an addict so that you can be seeing clearly. Because wherever you go, there you are, and we tend to leave relationships and if we haven't gone through our own growth, then we repeat the same things. We look for the same things, we're attracted to the same thing, we behave in the same ways.

I think an important question for you, Jackie, is why did you continue in a relationship with a man who says he's had a porn addiction after having been in a relationship with a man who was addicted to porn already? There's something in that for you, something for you to think about why this person is someone you're willing to risk that again with. And so then maybe couples therapy. See if this person—I like what Dr. Alice said—let them listen. Is he willing to acknowledge maybe he is wrong, maybe there's something more to this? Maybe the porn wasn't that big of a deal, but there is something. And now he's not using porn, but he's smoking weed or he's drinking. What did he replace the porn with? Maybe a relationship. How long have you all been dating? And are you sexually active with each other? What happened a year ago that he would stop? Because what he said was, "I just don't want to do it anymore." What happens when he does want to do it again?

New Life: Jackie, thank you so much for submitting your question online. You can do the same thing. The email address is newlife.com/radio. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to reach us in the studio for the rest of this hour and all of next. We're going to go to Annie in Indianapolis. Thank you so much for calling in, Annie. How can we help you?

Guest (Female): Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you so much for your wonderful ministry. I'm calling about my daughter and her husband and they've been married for a little over two and a half years. Beautiful couple. They just had their first baby four months ago. And my daughter walked into our house the night before last just in tears and that's unlike her. She's a very strong girl. And we're like, "What's wrong, baby?" She said, "I think I'm going to stay here tonight because every time he comes home, he starts drinking until he passes out." So listening to your previous caller, you pretty much answered the question: we need to figure out what is going on deep down. I was calling for help as far as how to approach him, because we love him so much. He's a great guy and he's crazy about our daughter and his baby, so I don't know what he's up against.

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: I love your heart for him. I would be heartbroken if my son-in-laws were struggling in this way and I would just want to love on them. So I'm just going to give you what I would do if this were my son—whether this would be the right thing or not.

I would go and I would say, "Hey, I'm worried. Your wife told me what happened yesterday. Talk to me." And I would just ask them to be open and share what's going on. "I'm fearful for you." I wouldn't even bring up—like I wouldn't say, "Hey, you're drinking too much and you're drinking till you pass out." I'm going to go say, "What's going on? You're not yourself and we're concerned. Can you talk to me?"

If I get a, "I can't talk to you about this," then I'm going to say, "Can I help you get connected with a therapist? I want you to be okay. Whatever this is, if you can't talk to me about it, you've got to talk to somebody." And if they say no to that, then I'm going to say, "What do you need?" And maybe they say space. If they say they need space, I'm going to say, "That's going to be so hard for me to give you because I love you so much that the thought of you dying from alcohol poisoning terrifies me. I don't know if I can give you that space. But I don't want to disrespect you and I don't want to cross your boundaries. So just know that I hear you and I'm going to be praying, but I'm also going to send you a text message with some names and you get to pray over those names and decide if you want to get the help or not." So that would be the first thing I would do. My hope would be that they would open up and share and we would then figure out a way forward once I know what they know.

But if they pushed back, if they said no, then I would have to regroup. I would then get into my own therapy and see if I could get some support from a therapist that maybe we can then come in and do some family counseling. I would be so bothered by it and triggered by it myself that I would then want to do my own work so that I can keep a clear head and be available but also not overbearing. As a recovering emotional avoider, I would need some support in doing that.

Dr. Alice Benton: Jackie gave you a fabulous game plan for how to address this. And I agree with her. I'd have you ask your daughter, "How do you want us to help?" And her answer doesn't have to dictate what you do, but let it influence you. I'd also have you think about what kind of stress has he been under recently that might have led to the change in behavior? Do you have just a quick answer?

Guest (Female): He has very successful parents, and I know they have high expectations for him. I don't think he's ever felt like he's ever met them.

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: New dad. Postpartum.

Dr. Alice Benton: Good point, Jackie. Annie, I also want you to think about—to come back with an answer after the break—have you and your husband ever resorted to behavior you regretted later when you were under extreme stress?

New Life: All right, Annie, ponder on that while we take our break. We'll come back to you and to everyone else who's on the phone right now at 1-800-229-3000. Marshall, I see you and other calls coming through, so let's all talk at 1-800-229-3000.

To find more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE. Annie, we're back to you. Are you there?

Guest (Female): Thank you. Yes, thank you.

New Life: Awesome. So did you hear Alice's question just before the break?

Guest (Female): I did. So New Life, you all helped me and my husband tremendously. We had been going through probably 10 years—I didn't know it, how long it'd been. There was some behaviors my husband was struggling with and it just came to a peak and we just about exploded. But we loved each other, loved our little family. So that's when I found you all. We went to a New Life weekend. He did Every Man's Battle. He couldn't go to the weekend in person, but he did the work online and it really did change his life.

What I learned from it—I also went and got counseling for how I could help to a different counselor. What we figured out in that situation was my husband didn't think he was the man that he wanted to live up to—the potential that he wanted to live up to. And so he was turning to affairs and porn and alcohol and it was just a nightmare. And then I was going and working to suffice our family, bringing it in, bringing the food on the table, and not letting him play that role more. So I backed off and it was a sacrifice because I was scared. So I backed off of being such a leader and let him lead.

Dr. Alice Benton: Annie, as you are giving us this description, we're nodding and smiling. Not because of the pain you went through, but because you are people of recovery. And that makes you so safe to speak to your son-in-law, especially your husband. He turned to alcohol too. So it means it's not just our son-in-law who's messing up. It's no, we're all a bunch of mess-ups. We all need help.

And so whether or not you refer to your story when you talk to him—and I hope you do, and I hope your husband leads that conversation if he's a man of recovery as he sounds like he is—so that it's "we love you, we've struggled too, let us help you because we know what it's like to be under this weight." If you don't know if your son-in-law will receive that well just from family, then you could have a conversation with our interventionist who helps to strategize and structure how to have these conversations and who all to bring in. That's usually not the first line attempt. Having the just-family conversation is sometimes enough and works. But if it doesn't or if you want that guidance, we have some interventionists that we can refer you to. And then you know helping your daughter get into Al-Anon and maybe going with her so she learns what to do when her husband struggles with this addictive behavior.

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: You mentioned the perfectionistic family and then you talked about your own situation with your husband. During the break we were talking a little bit about postpartum and men. No one asks the man at six weeks if they are feeling depressed, if they are feeling like harming themselves. And I believe that men experience postpartum depression as well. Their whole life has just changed. Who they are in the world has changed. And we recognize that with women, with moms, but we fail to stop and look at that with men.

And I think sometimes they feel very alone. And there is an expectation of them that they don't often think they can feel. My husband shared with me a couple of years ago that he'd finally come to realize the reason he was so difficult in the earlier days of our marriage is that he was unhappy with who he was. And he had been raised to believe that once you are a husband, you are responsible for everything. You're responsible for their safety. You are the provider and protector, and if you can't do that, you're not man enough and you shouldn't have gotten married. And I didn't get those messages, and so I was taught to create and cultivate a life you love and that's what I was doing. And meanwhile he was struggling and miserable.

And it wasn't until he started to focus on bringing joy into his own life—and what does he enjoy, and finding people that he enjoyed spending time with, and hobbies that he enjoyed doing—that he started to release some of that responsibility that he was carrying that he didn't really need to carry on his own. And so I just feel for your son-in-law. He's a new dad, and he probably comes from a very successful family and he is at the early stages of marriage and struggling as most of us do. But he only sees all of our success after all these years. He can't see where we were 20, 30 years ago. And so telling the story could be helpful for him.

New Life: Annie, thank you so much for your phone call today here on New Life LIVE. And in Luke 15, Jesus told the story of the shepherd leaving the 99 to go after the one. At New Life, we live that story every day. That's why we're launching 99 for 1 Partners, a monthly giving community created to ensure no cry for help goes unanswered. Learn how you can rescue the one and restore the many at newlife.com/9941. Your generosity changes lives. Marshall in Old Lyme, Connecticut, listening on SiriusXM channel 131. Hello.

Guest (Male): Nice to make your acquaintance, sir, ma'am. And thank you for streaming together psychology and faith in hyphen trust. I just want to share this, perhaps it'll be helpful to somebody. I'm almost 69 years old, but about five years ago and for 30 years previous, I was taking care of my mother through various heart attacks, plus had the responsibility for farm. I've been physically challenged for 56 years at the moment. So I'm not a candidate for being a married person. I had problems with that M-word which is dishonorable. I don't even want to say it.

But maybe this will help somebody. When I sold my farm, I was living with a housemate and he would stay in prayer with me, "I commit to you, Father, in Jesus' name, all loneliness, all pain, and all sadness." And that did help me with my trust in that. Secondly, I've learned to triumph in praise. Psalm 106:47—I'm going to be really brief, I'm going to read from New King James—"Save us, oh Lord our God, and gather us from among the nations to give thanks to Your holy name and to do what? To triumph in Your praise." Now I praise God in various names that I've known from the Old or New Testament. And that's helpful to me.

Next one is—this is very important—I consider women—and my pastor agrees—the most beautiful of all God's creation, I believe that. So I find some attractive. So I consider when I'm in the marketplace, her with esteem and if I look away if it's a temptation to me. And I call in the marketplace women Miss, like I was at a copy player place and it's Miss Sydney, Miss Sydney. So those are the things I wanted to say. If you have any commentary on that, I'm willing to listen. You're the professors, I'm the student at the moment.

Dr. Jackie Mack-Harris: That's awesome. The thing that stood out for me was the addressing people with Miss or Mr. It took me back to being a child and putting that tag on it, putting the handle on it of respect. And I think we dehumanize people, bodies. And so it's easier to look at them lustfully because they become objectified. And so that Miss, Mrs., Sir, Mr. adds a level of respect to the person as a human being that I think can be really helpful in eradicating some of that lust, mitigating some of those thoughts.

Dr. Alice Benton: Marshall, you are teaching. You're teaching our listeners and you're reminding us of some habits that have helped you to replace self-pleasuring. You make me think of how Saul was calmed by David's praise, and it broke some of the evil that was taking place within Saul. And so you've taken that and applied it. Thank you for motivating and inspiring listeners.

New Life: Thank you for calling in today, Marshall. Hope you can join Jackie, Alice, and me on tomorrow's show when we'll talk a little bit about church apathy and whether or not we should shout, shout, let it all out—scream therapy. Yes, it's a thing. Now we're going to be in the studio for another hour today, so call in. We'd love to chat with you. Dave, we're going to talk to you and everyone else at 1-800-229-3000.

Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you've heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.