New Life LIVE

Guest (Voiceover): Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Hey everyone, welcome to New Life Live. It's our first live show of the month. Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm your host Brian Perez. I'm joined in the studio by clinical psychologist Dr. Alice Benton and licensed marriage and family therapist, what's your name again? Mark Cameron. My goodness. I sometimes forget to have name tags on or something. I don't know. Anyway, welcome to the show. 1-800-229-3000 is our number, and you can call us for the next two hours. That's how long we're going to be here today, and we really want to hear from you no matter what it is you're going through. Mark, what's on your mind to start us off?

Mark Cameron: Have you ever noticed how people don't usually break an unhealthy pattern because they understand it? They only do so once they become exhausted by it. Now, there's a saying that we often use in therapy. It says people change when the cost of staying the same exceeds the cost of change. So think about that for a moment. People don't stay stuck because they like or enjoy their conflict cycle. They stay stuck because it's familiar oftentimes. As painful as it is, they've learned to survive inside of it because it's predictable.

And now I'm not just talking about marriage. These dynamics happen in friendships and in family relationships. It's that the thought of doing something different, being vulnerable, setting boundaries, asking for help, admitting they need to change, or sometimes even stepping away can actually feel more frightening than continuing in the dysfunction that they already know. The unknown feels scarier than familiar. There's a saying that most people know, better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Depending on your attachment style, you may have different reasons for staying stuck in that cycle. Pleasers often know what they should do when their relationship shouldn't continue in its current form, especially if they're being abused or taken advantage of. But they struggle to set boundaries or take a separation because they fear hurting the person or they fear judgment from others, disappointing others. So they stay silent.

Avoiders often know that they should engage more emotionally and lean in, but vulnerability feels riskier than distance and they are often content living a disconnected life anyway. And Vacillators are the most common attachment style to cut off a relationship when they're unhappy. But when they do stay, they can often believe that they just won't get the trust back again or they won't get that loving feeling back. And so they emotionally protect and disconnect and they often sabotage other people's efforts. And so it leaves the other person feeling like they can't come towards them and fix it.

And then there's Controllers and Victims. These are people who grow up in abusive homes and they end up in the cycle of abuse oftentimes and it's just familiar for them. Now, the truth is we all can adapt to unhealthy environments, but adapting isn't the same as healing. And I've seen couples spend 20 or 30 years having the same fight, not because it couldn't be solved, but because neither was willing to disrupt the status quo and they kept waiting on their spouse to approach them first or for their feelings to change first. Now, that is a tragedy.

Growth almost always feels uncomfortable because we have to risk leaving behind what is familiar. But growth always requires a risk. Pleasers have to risk someone being upset. Avoiders have to risk being emotionally present. Vacillators have to risk hoping and being hurt again. Controllers have to risk surrendering control and victims have to risk believing that they are worth protecting and that they can protect themselves.

So here's a question to consider today if you're stuck in a relational cycle of doom, as I like to say. What's the cost of staying the same? If nothing changes in your relationship, where are you going to be a year from now? Five years from now? Ten years from now? Is staying in that same dance worth it? And what if one act of courage could shift your relationship to a new horizon? Sometimes the greatest risk isn't taking that step forward towards growth; it's spending another year in the same painful cycle. But if you're feeling stuck today, we'd love to help you take that first step and the good news is that you don't have to find perfect people, you just have to be able to be willing to take that step for growth. So give us a call. 1-800-229-3000.

Brian Perez: 1-800-229-3000 is the number. Sue, we're going to talk to you when we come back from the break here on New Life Live.

Guest (Voiceover): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: You've already downloaded the New Life app, haven't you? You haven't? Well, that's okay. Do it right now though, before you forget. And it's a great way to listen on the go, listen wherever you are, anytime. It makes it very convenient for you, so check that out in the Google Play or the App Store. The New Life app. And thank you so much for joining us today. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Mark Cameron was just talking about attachment styles and everything and if you don't understand what that's all about, well, you can understand your attachment style. That's the name of Mark's book. You can get it in the NewLife.com store. So check it out. 1-800-229-3000 is our number, and now we're going to talk to Sue listening on WAVA in Virginia. Welcome to New Life Live, Sue.

Sue: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Brian Perez: Yeah, how can we help you today?

Sue: I'm just trying to figure out should I stay in a relationship, a 36-year relationship that my husband continually gives money to his sister, brothers, or whomever without discussing it with me. And he said he would do that, but he doesn't.

Brian Perez: He said he was going to stop doing it?

Sue: No, he didn't say he was going to stop doing it. He said he would discuss it with me prior to doing it. And I found out yesterday that he's continued to do it. Yes, sir.

Alice Benton: Wow. Does he do this to the point that it's put you in financial hardship?

Sue: At this point in our marital life, no, no, but early on it did. Yes, early on it did.

Alice Benton: And what's happening with his brother and sister that he keeps giving them money?

Sue: That's a good question. I have no idea. We have a lot of things that we talk about in our marriage, but his family is off-limits.

Alice Benton: And you don't know much about their circumstances either to have a guess?

Sue: I know they struggled a lot growing up. I know that. I'll give you a little background. Initially, when we got together, we were saving for the wedding—see how long ago this was. He took money out of that account, gave $500 to his sister. I had no idea why, what it was for or anything. And I simply said, probably my fault, don't do it again. And he's done it over and over and over again since this entire marriage.

Alice Benton: And the deception is so hurtful to you and it really breaks down the foundation of your marriage even though financially you maybe can afford it at this time. There have been times you couldn't and he impaired plans you were making even for your own wedding by giving money to siblings without even an explanation or a heads-up. Have there been other major ruptures in your marriage? Things like infidelity, pornography use? Has he left you for a period of time?

Sue: Pornography, yeah.

Alice Benton: And is that an ongoing problem he has? Has he ever done anything to try to work on that problem?

Sue: Well, he actually did. But it's always prompted by me. I have to prompt him. He went to Every Man's Battle and I also went to the companion, the one they have for the spouse, Restore. I went to that one a few years ago.

Alice Benton: Do you believe your husband is still in recovery from his pornography use?

Sue: He would say no, but I probably would say yes.

Alice Benton: Does that mean that he would say he's not active in his recovery, like he's not sober, but you think he is sober?

Sue: Oh, I'm sorry. I got it just the opposite. Yes, ma'am. I got it just the opposite.

Alice Benton: Got it. And you can't trust him, so you don't know if you can believe what he says.

Sue: See, that's my whole thing. It's a trust issue. I just don't know where to go, what to do.

Alice Benton: How long ago did he go to EMB and how long ago did you ask him to enter couples or individual therapy?

Sue: Well, that's been ongoing for me. I'm always trying to encourage us to do something to strengthen our marriage so we can talk openly about everything, not just on my side but on his side too. So we do it ongoingly, or something tried to strengthen the marriage.

Mark Cameron: Sue, is he open about other things? Talking with you about other things? Because you said this topic is off-limits. Is this the only topic that's off-limits or are there other things that are off-limits?

Sue: There are other things too. He's a hard person to communicate with. Very hard. He's very meticulous. He'll talk about things at work, but not a lot of things in our personal life.

Mark Cameron: Communication patterns are learned. They're learned from the homes that we grow up in. And we learn what is safe and what is not safe to share, or we learn language for what is happening on the inside and how to share it, or we don't learn that language. And then we take that with us into our adult relationships. And you guys have been struggling with this for 36 years now.

Is he the oldest of his siblings?

Sue: Well, he's the oldest. It's two fathers, so he's the oldest for his father. But he's not the oldest child in the family. There are three older brothers.

Mark Cameron: So for some reason, he feels responsible for his siblings. And I'm guessing the siblings who he's giving the money to, they're probably his younger siblings.

Sue: Wow. Yes, that's true.

Mark Cameron: So he feels responsible for them in some way. And while it's not okay that he's and probably not even healthy that he's bailing them out and especially that he's not discussing it with you, people do things for a reason. And in their minds, it's a good reason.

So rather than just leaving the relationship, because that would be unfortunate if you can't work it out, is to be able to see if you can—and sometimes it does take you to be able to prompt your spouse to get into therapy. But if he's willing to go, even if that's at your prompting, I would try and get him to do that and find a therapist. And we can help you find a therapist who will address this issue and help you be able to just talk about this plainly.

Especially if you can do something called the comfort circle. The comfort circle is a different way to have a conversation. Most of the times when people are having a conversation, they're just kind of going back and forth, each person sharing their opinion, oftentimes shaking their head and dismissing what the other person's saying or correcting them. But the comfort circle just splits that conversation in two. And I think a good therapist can help you split that conversation and help you become a listener. And I would say you be the listener first because he probably knows what your thoughts and feelings are on this.

But if you get curious, if he feels safe enough to be able to explain it to you, you might, again, not agree with what he's doing, but you may get greater understanding into that. That doesn't mean that you don't get to hold boundaries. But I think if you ended the relationship without fully really understanding what was going on, that would be a tragedy, I think. Any other thoughts, Alice?

Alice Benton: It must be exhausting that you're the initiator and you're the one that seems to care about morality in your relationship. And he might tag along, but he doesn't sound like he's been the spiritual leader. And that's unfair. It's not right. He's not living up to his calling. And so I'm sorry for you that this has been probably a very lonely, frustrating, maybe enraging marriage at times.

And I'm going to give you some advice that you probably won't like, but it's in your best interest in the long run, even if you end up deciding that you have to divorce your husband. Because if he is still using pornography, that level of infidelity does seem to be one of those permissible areas that if he will not work on it anymore, then God does say, well, if a spouse is unfaithful, that can be a reason for separation.

But because we know divorce to be so destructive—it can solve some problems, but it creates so many more problems—we want to help people try everything we know can work before they go to that extreme of divorce. And so I would guess that the way he behaves, the negativity of it, of course, is what weighs on you. I want to try to reframe it with you. Your husband has a heart of caring for his siblings and he has a heart of generosity. He's misused that, and I'm angry at the way he's done that, but there is goodness in his actions.

And if you've never spoken that out loud to him or haven't for a long time, I'd have you try that. Sue, I'm a liar in recovery myself. And I usually lied so that people that I love wouldn't be mad at me or disappointed in me. I didn't feel safe enough to be honest. And some of that's my own fault. Some of that's because I had some hard people in my surroundings who were very critical. So they weren't terribly safe to be honest with, and they couldn't be accepting of my struggle.

If you're willing to keep working on yourself, saying something to him like, "I know you care about your siblings and you've sacrificed a lot for them." That does not mean, Sue, that you approve and it doesn't mean you agree with it either. It just means, "Husband, I see that there's some good motivation in you." And you might tell him, "I wish you felt safe enough to be more upfront with me. And would you let me know is there anything I can do to become safer for you?"

It's not your fault he keeps this from you, Sue, but you may have some rough edges yourself that make it tough for him to open up to you. But the last thing I'll say, and Mark mentioned this at the end, is the boundaries idea. That if your invitation to therapy and these things I'm suggesting, if they don't work and he's resistant and he's shut down and he won't change, then that's when we apply boundaries and we increase levels of separation within the marriage still with the hope that as he loses more access to you, he'll miss you and that old desire to go to Every Man's Battle, that gets perhaps reignited and that better version of him is drawn back out again. Would you tell me though, how off-putting is my advice to you? Because I know I'm saying some difficult things.

Sue: It's not off-putting at all. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. I know I have rough edges and I know I've never done what you—I actually wrote it down—to tell him the goodness in his actions for caring for his sister and his brother. I mean, wow. No, your advice is really, really good and I'm going to try with God's help to put it into practice.

Mark Cameron: And I wonder, Sue—Alice gave you great language—if you do that, if he'll be willing to tell you why. And then you can understand why.

Brian Perez: Yeah.

Alice Benton: Sue, what has helped me more than almost anything to come out of my lying is to receive unmerited forgiveness from the people that I hurt with my lies. And so when my husband has told me, "I forgive you. I love you anyhow. You probably had a good reason why you kept this information from me." I didn't deserve any of that, Sue. And given unmerited grace and favor and mercy, that's God's breakthrough recipe and it has humbled me and it's made me want to be a more honest person. That same recipe might work for your husband.

Brian Perez: Sue, thanks for calling us today here at New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000. A couple of books in the NewLife.com store that could help you are Trust and Boundaries and, of course, How We Love, which tells you all about the comfort circle. Check that out as well at NewLife.com in the store. 1-800-229-3000. CC, one of our 99 for the One partners, welcome to New Life Live. Thanks for listening on NewLife.com in Phoenix, Arizona.

CC: Thanks for taking my call. I got a text message and I thought, "This is really appropriate for today."

Brian Perez: Oh, okay. What's going on?

CC: Well, I'm just wondering if it's worth my emotional energy to address bullying from a spouse who divorced me 20 years ago because now I see my daughter, who's in her 40s, repeating the same pattern with her recent ex-spouse. The divorce was final for her just in April and she has really been focused on it—how does she answer him again and stuff—and I actually then have been getting some pretty horrible text messages from my first spouse and he's just an emotional terrorist. He's a bully. But is it worth me trying to say all over again to him, "No, I'm not the liar and the deceiver you think I am," whatever. But he divorced me 20 years ago, so I don't know what to do.

Mark Cameron: CC, your kids are older now, correct? They're adults?

CC: Yes, they are adults.

Mark Cameron: Why, if you've been divorced from your ex-husband for 20 years and you don't have to co-parent, why do you continue to communicate with him?

CC: Well, actually, we were doing co-parenting because this daughter spent some time in a behavioral health hospital and so we were having to co-parent. And then, when she asked me to keep it a secret from her dad that she had removed him from the release of information because he was interfering with her discharge, that's when everything blew up again and I'm the bad guy.

Mark Cameron: But how old is your daughter now?

CC: She's 44.

Mark Cameron: So, okay, so you're no longer co-parenting because your daughter's 44. So we shouldn't be parenting children—or they're no longer children once they reach get past their early 20s. Right? And we shouldn't be parenting them anymore. Okay. You can hear the music. We're about to go to the break here, but we'll get right back with you on the other side.

Brian Perez: Yes, we will. And thank you very much and everyone else on hold, stay on hold because we're going to get to you as well. We're going to be here for two hours today, so we'll have plenty of time to get to your call if you call in right now at 1-800-229-3000. Dr. Alice Benton and Mark Cameron are here to help. 1-800-229-3000.

Guest (Voiceover): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Let's go back to CC, who called in because she got a text message from us and she's like, "Yeah, compared to the other text messages I've been getting lately, I'm going to call into these guys because these guys will be able to help me." So you still with us, CC?

CC: I am. Thank you.

Alice Benton: Awesome. And CC, this interaction you had to have over your daughter, was it because she was receiving substance abuse treatment recently?

CC: Yes.

Alice Benton: How recent?

CC: She was in three different behavioral health hospitals from June 3rd to July 22nd.

Alice Benton: And now has been released just recently?

CC: She was released to me on July 22nd, yes.

Alice Benton: Is she living with you?

CC: No, I went and stayed with her three nights and I have been helping her. I took her to a psychiatrist and then today I have a therapy appointment to take her to. She may start EMDR today, which would be wonderful because she actually has trauma before she was even diagnosed bipolar 20 years ago.

Alice Benton: And is some of that trauma related to your husband being emotionally abusive to your family?

CC: Yes.

Alice Benton: And yet he's involved in part because he's helping financially?

CC: No, not really. He just likes to get talk, talk, talk, and find out what should be done and then he becomes a doctor.

Alice Benton: He can be a know-it-all. So you're wondering whether or not to confront your ex-husband for continuing to mistreat you and to try to set the record straight about your own reputation?

CC: Yes.

Alice Benton: And is it not feasible to cut off contact with him? And if not, why not?

CC: It would be. I know my current husband, who has been my wonderful husband of 12 years, has said, "Just block him. Just block him. He can get ahold of you if he has to through some of your other kids."

Mark Cameron: And what stops you from blocking him, CC? Because that would have been my thought.

CC: I don't know. Is it because I still, you know, it's like I was always the one to blame, I was—it was easier to take the blame. I've done, you know, codependent recovery stuff, and yet am I falling back into this? That, "Okay, just let everybody use me as the punching bag."

Mark Cameron: And where did you learn that, CC? Where did you learn to be codependent and to be used as a punching bag? Growing up, were you the one to blame?

CC: You know, I look at it that my parents did not ever have any conflict, at least that I saw. So I didn't learn any conflict resolution skills. So when I got married at 20 and married a lion, then he was from an alcoholic family that they blew up. I just would shut down. So I never learned it.

But since the last 20 years, I've gone to some of your things and all sorts of stuff, done, you know, seminars and therapy and everything. I've been learning to be assertive in my communication but not aggressive. And yet this recent text message from my first husband has really gotten under my skin there. I want to say, "You know what? I'm pulling the curtain back on the Wizard of Oz. You are an old man behind the curtain thinking you're all-powerful and you're not." And yet do I want to waste all my emotional energy doing that or just say, "You know what? That's right. I continue every day to have to say I forgive that man and I am in better grace now and yet when I see my daughter still struggling with the same thing," then I go, "Oh, I was a bad role model."

Mark Cameron: Well, that's what I was going to say, CC. You know, we can do our own healing but we can't do other people's healing. And you've been divorced from him for 20 years. He's not—you're not financially tied to him, you're not partners in anything. Sometimes, you know, just saying what you want to say, even as justified as it could be, is you're wasting—it could be wasting your breath and it might not really get you further down the line. Often times a negative interaction is still a type of connection for him and he's stuck in the codependency cycle with you. And so I think your current husband, your allegiance is to him now. And I think your former husband, you're getting all riled up about a situation with him that you can't control and it's taking your time and your energy away from your current priorities. And so I'm with your current husband, his thought process is just to block him. Because you're not relying on him for anything and I think it sounds like your daughter's starting to learn how to do that too because she took him off the discharge plan.

CC: Right. Yeah. Now do you have a question there though that my current husband would like to stand up to my former husband and say, "You can't talk to my wife that way." Do I say that, you know, that's good for him because I felt like I need to stand up for myself? I never did and I need to draw the line in the sand for the adult former husband. What do you think about that?

Mark Cameron: Well, I think it's good that he wants to be a protector. But I also agree with you that you need to be the one to stand up. But again, I would just shift your thinking a little bit here that boundaries are not—I don't think they start with, "You won't do this." Because boundaries are about you. Boundaries are about what I'm not willing to put up with, rather than "You won't do this," because you can say, "You won't speak to me like that again," and he's going to say, "Fine, I'm going to say it anyway and I will speak to you like that." You can't stop the words coming out of his mouth. What you can do is you can stop listening to them. So that's really what a true boundary is. It's what you're willing to do, not how you're going to stop the other person. Okay?

Alice Benton: And CC, I would just have you explore your expectations. Because if you have the hope that he's ever going to believe you or change, I think that's wishful thinking that will keep you very disappointed and hurt. If you are doing this to be assertive no matter what the results are, because they're probably not going to be successful on the surface, that's still a very good reason to go ahead with this and to confront this man. I'd even have you think about a restraining order. If he keeps harassing you and he won't stop, there's some legal power you could apply here.

Brian Perez: CC, thanks for calling us today here on New Life Live. Carol, we'll talk to you when we come back from the break here on New Life Live.

Guest (Voiceover): Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression—all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because every one matters. Your generosity helps find them. And you know we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the One is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or NewLife.com/99for1. Join the mission. Rescue the one and restore the many.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: We often tell you and we've even talked about it a little bit on today's show already, Every Man's Battle. It's a three-day workshop designed to help men understand, confront, and break free from patterns of sexual struggle with honesty, support, and a clear path forward. When a man struggles in silence, it rarely stays contained. It affects his relationships, it impacts trust, and often it leaves the people closest to him feeling hurt, confused, or unsure what to do next. If someone you love is facing this kind of struggle, we want you to know that real help is available. This workshop shows you that freedom is possible.

Here's what Gary said after attending. "I was given the tools I need for recovery and was trained on how to use them. My small group became some of the closest brothers that I have in my life. They know the real me and still show me love." The workshop, the next one starts this Friday in Dallas. You can still get in. Visit NewLife.com for all the details or call us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE.

To the phones now. Here is Carol in Allentown, Pennsylvania, listening on WRGN. Welcome, Carol, to New Life Live.

Carol: Hi. So my question is, how do I go about recovering our intimacy? As we get older, we lack interest, we change as people. And I found my way back through prayer and friends—not that we talk about those things, but people praying for me. I prayed for him personally. But I feel like this is a topic that if I talk about it, it won't be received. If I talk about it, "What are you talking about? It's not a problem." Or he'll pull away because he doesn't want to talk about it. I see it too when we do get together and we do spend some time together sharing a moment or talking about something or we're watching something on TV. Once it gets romantic, the whole conversation changes, like he gets uninterested. So I'm not sure if it's for men at his age that have put on some weight. Is it a medical thing or is it a mental thing that we're doing just fine mentally so not that we're fully connected anymore. We used to read each other's minds; not as much anymore.

Brian Perez: Now, did you say you had lost interest too and you gained it back or?

Carol: Yes.

Brian Perez: Okay. How long ago did this part of your relationship fizzle out?

Carol: Oh, it's been a very long time.

Brian Perez: How long have you been married? Did you tell us?

Carol: Yes, 33 years.

Brian Perez: 33 years. Okay. And are you both in your 50s, 60s?

Carol: We're just ending our 50s. I'm at 59 and he'll be 59 in a few months.

Alice Benton: But the lack of intimacy started a long time ago. So that makes me question how much it has to do about age. Of course, that's a good consideration, and are there medical problems? Did his weight gain affect this? All really good questions to pursue. But because it predates some of that, at least within the normal age range, what do you think happened looking back? What started to disconnect you two in your ability to relate to each other, not even physical intimacy, back around the time that the physical intimacy stopped? What was going on for your family?

Carol: I think it was raising the family. A family had moved into teenage years, they were getting older, our children. And I don't know, I didn't feel safe with the kids around. And my disconnect, I think, was a path for him. "I guess we're done with that."

Alice Benton: And have you had any suspicion that there's been a pornography issue for him or emotional or other forms of infidelity?

Carol: No. No. No. My mind when I was younger used to go there. I used to think that, not that there were ever any signs, there were never any signs, but I was always looking. So I was looking for a problem, so I thought there was a problem. There was nothing. There is nothing.

Alice Benton: What made you think there was a problem?

Carol: Because, I guess the problem was that we weren't. So we're going back at least 15 years, maybe a little longer. And there was just never a safety net I can remember. I just wasn't on board then. I was like, "No, I'm a mom. What are you talking about?"

Mark Cameron: Carol, you mentioned your husband was heavy. How heavy is he?

Carol: It's all in the front, I have to say. So we just have too many beers when we get home and we relax, we unwind. It's a long day, he has a lot of work, but it's not physical work anymore, a lot of stress.

Mark Cameron: Well, I mean, I'm curious. Because you talked about maybe it's physical, maybe it's mental, and in truth, it can be both. But when I say mental, I'm thinking I've see signs of autism and so non-interest, only interested in what I want to do, repetitive things, just pull away, like we're not interested in talking. But if I'm hearing correctly what you said is that you used to have a good sex life. Is that correct?

Carol: It was age-appropriate. We were raising a family.

Mark Cameron: We don't really know what age-appropriate is because it can be different for people. But what I'm hearing from you is that you used to have a good sexual connection. Is that accurate?

Carol: Yeah.

Mark Cameron: Okay. So give me a second here because it sounds like you're not really too sure to be honest with you. I've asked you a few questions and you're a little bit hesitant to give exact answers of how long has it been, what's the frequency like, how heavy is he. So it's kind of hard when you're being a little vague here but if he is quite heavy, it could be a physical issue. It could be that he has ED, erectile dysfunction, and maybe when you're watching these movies and something romantic is happening, he starts to feel shame and he wonders if you get stimulated the same way that he does and so he gets awkward and he turns it off because he's embarrassed.

A lot of times people are scared to be naked physically with one another because they're scared to be naked emotionally with one another too. And so that at least sounds like you guys have struggled to really be open and honest with what is going on and I think that's where you start here is by learning to have a conversation. And you most likely need a third party, a therapist, who can help you have that conversation. Have you tried therapy before? Or is he willing? Are you willing?

Carol: I've gone to therapy myself, but it's been a couple years. I had good—I've had good—

Mark Cameron: Carol, are you willing and is he willing to go?

Carol: I would be. I would absolutely be willing. Would he? It would take a lot of prayer.

Mark Cameron: Okay. Well, I think you start with you. I think let us help you get connected with a therapist and you invite him. If he doesn't want to go, you go yourself and a good therapist will guide you with really good questions to be able to subtly invite him, even if that's you saying, "Hey, I'd like you to talk with my therapist and tell that person what you'd like to see me work on." That makes it safe for a spouse who's hesitant to get into therapy. It's not that you're trying to trick them because you really do want to know. But the goal is that they get into therapy, they see that it can be beneficial, and they're encouraged to come along and then you can start to have these emotional conversations where you can be emotionally naked with one another and you can be able to really talk about what is going on so that you're not trying to guess. Because when you guess, you have to guess the solution. And we don't want you to have to guess that.

Alice Benton: And you might let him know, "I miss you and I want to learn how to reconnect. We used to be better connected. I think I got too caught up in the kids and now I don't quite know how to bridge that gap with you. Can we learn how?" Being humble like that will make it a more appealing invitation.

Brian Perez: Carol, stay on the phone and we'll help you find a therapist in your area there in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Thanks for calling. We'll be back on New Life Live.

Guest (Voiceover): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Thank you all for praying for us here at New Life Ministries and for praying for the people who call into the show. And another way that you can help us is to support us financially. Whether that's a one-time gift or a monthly gift, a 99 for the One partner, like the call that we had earlier today from CC, thank you for that. But yeah, just get on board with what we're doing here. We have so many resources: this broadcast, weekend intensives, counselors, books, recovery groups, and more. They all help usher in life-changing transformation. Our impact is made possible by your faithful support of this ministry. You can give online at NewLife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE, or you can text NLM as in New Life Ministries to 28950 to get started. Thank you so much for whatever you can do. Large gifts, small gifts, one-time gifts, monthly gifts, they all make a difference.

Okay, back to the phones. Here is Rose in Chicago, Illinois. Rose is watching us on YouTube, so we'll wave hi to Rose. Thanks for calling in today, Rose. How can we help you?

Rose: Hi. So I just want to give a little brief history of why I'm calling today. Three weeks ago today, my father passed away. And he died within 40 days of being diagnosed with cancer. And I've lost a lot of loved ones in my life. I lost my birth mother and I lost a stepmother both to cancer. My birth mother died within three months, my stepmother died within four months.

And so I've lost a lot of loved ones in my life. My only immediate relative family member that's living is my brother. And my brother and I for the past 20 years have not talked. I just recently moved back to Illinois because I recently got divorced. And I was hoping and praying after moving back here that my brother and I would reconnect. But instead, all I've gotten is rejection from him. Absolutely nothing from him.

And my dad, his biggest prayer was too, was that my brother and I would connect and my dad was trying to get him to connect with me and it just didn't happen and I know it literally broke my dad's heart. But I've been through two marriages. I was molested as a child. I was raped and abused in my first marriage. I was mentally abused in my second marriage. So I have this big low self-esteem, I have this big feeling of rejection from many people in my life.

And there's been things I've been finding out since my father passed away that I didn't know about regarding my brother and just things that Dad did not tell me about. I don't want to be angry at my father, but I'm starting to feel a little bit of a rejection from him even and I don't want to feel that. But I'll be honest, I've talked to my pastor, I've talked to my therapist regarding how do I deal with this with my brother. My brother is my power of attorney of my father's will and trust. And now my brother is denying me to even look at the will and trust when I know my father told me before he passed away that I was in part of the will and trust.

And so he's in control and he could possibly even take my house from me because my dad was helping me with my house. So I'm just in a very bad situation and I'm honestly feeling so rejected and so alone and I don't know what to do. My brother refuses to talk to me and I don't know what to do.

Brian Perez: We're so sorry. We're so sorry that you've gone through all this and that you're feeling this way right now. Alice, go ahead.

Alice Benton: Rose, all these different areas of your life feel like they're falling apart. All these deaths, the divorce, the move, and now you don't even feel safe and secure in your own house because your brother has some power over that. And so I want to go with what seems most urgent to me, which is the safety of your home, although all the emotional issues are incredibly important as well. Do you have an attorney?

Rose: I'm in the process of trying to find one. And unfortunately, the first two attorneys I've talked to have told me they have conflict of interest because of knowing my brother. So I am still in the process of trying to find an attorney.

Alice Benton: And do you have the courage and strength to keep pursuing that and do you see that's of high urgency?

Rose: I do. Well, what I have found is that I don't think he can take my home from me because I have a deed now that's—well, I thought was in my name, but it's under the family trust and that's the thing I was deceived by. I was told that the deed was put into my name but it's actually in the family trust.

Alice Benton: Which is why you have some anger towards your dad. Okay. So I'm going to lay out what I think are your highest priorities. And one is making sure you have that attorney. Even if your brother can't take the home from you, because you have uncertainty, you need to know that your home is stable or find some other living situation. So please keep working on getting an attorney.

The second thing is you start to feel this anger towards your dad and you don't want to. I have to recommend that you allow yourself to feel it in the safety of your therapy sessions—you already have that therapist. Because allowing yourself to feel it even though it might seem wrong, if you repress these emotions that you're having, they are God-given emotions that are warning signs to you that things are off, things are wrong, whether in your relationships, in your environment, or within your own person. And so give yourself permission and proactively enter into that anger with the help of your therapist.

And the third priority I would say is getting into a group of women. You need a sisterhood around you because so many other people have left your life or they're unsafe. A sisterhood that you can turn to on even a daily basis. So if you're not in a life group yet, let us connect you with a New Life recovery group or get to one there at your church with that pastor that you trust.

Rose: Okay. I'll be honest with you, I've suffered with depression for years, for my whole life. And I've thought I've been doing better up until my dad got sick and my depression has come back very severely. And I feel like I don't have the support that I need right now.

Mark Cameron: Well, you're in grief, Rose, and sadness and depression are often part of grief and if you were vulnerable to depression, that can put you into an episode here. But there's a lot of anxiety I hear because there's a lot of unknown going on and it's unknown because there's no communication happening and that causes a lot of fear and vulnerability and powerlessness. And so I think, as Alice is saying, there's a lot of this situation that you are in a wait-and-see right now. And so being able to get people around you who can support you, who you can vent your anxiety to, who they can comfort and encourage you is going to be key here.

But also, I think Alice is onto something too. Having an attorney set up because you don't want to leave yourself too vulnerable that you don't protect yourself and you get caught off guard. So have somebody, find somebody, have them ready and available. But learning how to calm that anxiety in that wait-and-see period is very, very difficult and you're going to need support around you to do that.

Alice Benton: Anger is an empowering emotion that can fuel the fight you need to engage in for yourself and to honor your dad's memory. Take a look at your medications too, have them re-evaluated, because you might need an increase with all you're going through.

Brian Perez: Rose, we're praying for you. Thanks for calling us today at New Life Live. If you're on hold right now, stay on hold, we'll try to get to as many of you as we can in the next hour and we're going to keep the phone lines open. 1-800-229-3000. And don't forget we're also now on TikTok. Check that out, New Life Ministries.

Guest (Voiceover): Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to NewLife.com to find out more information and thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.