New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: New Life Live begins right now. Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and we are not here to judge, we're here to nudge. Some of you are so close to life change, but you're afraid to take that next step.

We're here to help. Licensed marriage and family therapist Mark Cameron is here. He's the author of *Understanding Your Attachment Style*. And clinical psychologist Alice Benton is here too. Alice, what's on your mind?

Alice Benton: I was judging your shirt choice today, but I'm going to choose not to do it anymore.

Mark Cameron: I'm staying out of this one.

Alice Benton: A woman told me recently that she is catastrophically lonely. Oh, what a phrase of pain. Not just lonely, catastrophically lonely. And you may have felt or be feeling the same way, the kind of loneliness that you might think, "I don't know if I can live much longer with this. God take me home," or "I might take my own life if this doesn't get better."

I worked once with a woman who was in dialysis hours and hours weekly, and she had several grown children. In our work, she bemoaned that none of them came with her. She was always alone going to dialysis, and she felt horrifically lonely.

Oftentimes when people are this lonely, I find that they are givers surrounded by takers. So they're the ones who are always serving and showing up for others, but are hardly ever receiving the reciprocal. Why does this happen? Well, we have to do a self-evaluation because I'm also a people-pleaser.

We people-pleasers train other people to have their hands open and be ready to receive from us, or to ask us, and we're always going to give a yes. And we can be kind of self-sufficient. It's hard for us to ask for what we need. So people are trained, "Oh, she doesn't need anything, and when I need something, I'll give her a call because she'll show up." So it's a setup.

So what we can do is if you realize that this applies to you, you can start asking for changes from the people around you. As simplistic as that sounds, I work with some people for years and they struggle to do this because it is so counter-cultural, it's so against their nature, and they are terrified it might destroy a relationship if they actually ask for something rather than only giving.

We can adjust what we will tolerate because what we tolerate is how we train people how to treat us. Sometimes we've got to get some new people in our circle because it may be that the takers around you, they don't want to change. They are comfortable being takers and they just want to keep taking from you.

There's a promise in the Bible that God will put the lonely in families. If you are catastrophically lonely, let him put you into a new spiritual family. But he won't move you from where you're sitting. Rather, if you pick up the phone or if you get up and go somewhere, he will guide you to the right people. But it is easier said than done.

There's this saying in recovery, it's the acronym HALT, and it means don't get too hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. Because loneliness puts us into such a vulnerable position that we are likely to hurt ourselves or to sin to get our needs met. Don't wait for it to get that catastrophically lonely. Let us put you into a New Life recovery group, come to one of our weekend intensives, or at the very least, let us connect you with a counselor in our network.

Brian Perez: Are there recovery groups for making better wardrobe choices since you don't like my shirt?

Mark Cameron: We'll start one.

Brian Perez: I feel so, I don't know...

Mark Cameron: Judged.

Brian Perez: Like everyone's against me. No. You can call in. I should. Yes, I will call in.

Rose, though, is up first. She's been holding for a while, so we're going to go to her in just a little bit. Liz is listening in Chicago, Illinois. We've also got Amber and Teresa and a lot of other calls too. So hang on, thanks for joining us today here on New Life Live.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Rose in Chicago who listens to the New Life Live podcast, hello. Thank you so much for calling into New Life Live.

Rose: Hey, Brian, nice to talk to you and Mark and Alice. I listen a lot to your show and I feel privileged to talk to you guys today. So thank you for your help.

Brian Perez: The feeling is mutual, Rose. Yes, thanks for calling us. How can we help you?

Rose: Since I listen a lot, I know you like the question. So here's my question. My gifting of connecting people, creating beauty, and planning events seems to also be my cursing. How do I clear this hurdle?

The backstory is I've been a pastor's wife for about 32 years. We are not pastoring right now, as of about a year ago. We are pursuing a ministry for young in ministry couples, the personal side of ministry and marriage.

But every time I brush, I cannot clear this hurdle with the local church. Every time, like last week, I did an event, a very small event at a church that's unrelated to us, and I felt like these triggers come up. I feel like I need to clear this since the ministry that we're initiating is related to ministry. So how do I do that?

Alice Benton: Will you help us understand the curse side of your gift? Is it because you're spread too thin and people keep expecting you to be the one to host things?

Rose: It's more like I feel like maybe I'm too much. I've been told, "Do it simpler," or many people will be blessed by it, but I don't know if people are jealous, or people feel I'll do it better, or it just upsets their status quo.

Alice Benton: So people end up mistreating you or snubbing you because your events are so well done?

Rose: It upsets their status quo of the way they're used to doing church, even though other people are really blessed by it.

Alice Benton: And is this an ongoing issue with a particular person or a small group of people that keep acting like you're too much?

Rose: No, it's just off and on in different situations that we've been in over the years.

Brian Perez: Could be that it's one of those "we've always done it this way," and then Rose comes along and wants to shake things up a little bit and they don't like it.

Rose: Kind of, yes.

Mark Cameron: What were you just about to say there, Rose? You are a...

Rose: I'm a pleaser.

Mark Cameron: A pleaser. Okay, that's what I thought you were about to say. And when you say triggers, what are the triggers to what? What's it triggering in you or reminding you of?

Rose: Last week, we were doing a professional presentation for the ministry we're now involved in. So I was in the kitchen of this church that I'm not even really involved in. It was just a place we could meet because these other people could meet there.

So I was in the kitchen preparing refreshments and stuff. As I'm standing there, I'm like, "Wow, I used to do things like this." I haven't done things like that for a long time because I just kind of backed off because this church got so upset about it, like really, really, really mad about it. So I just kind of backed off for years. And so I was like, "Wow, I used to do things like this." And it just kind of was triggering. I didn't know what to do with it.

Mark Cameron: Did you have a parent who you had to please, or who would get upset or angry and cause anxiety for you?

Rose: As a child, I always did things very perfect and very well and very over the top. Yes. That was how I was known to be, like I was a very perfect child.

Mark Cameron: So you felt like you had to be perfect, you had to be the good kid.

Rose: Yes. That's how I got attention. That's how I was noticed.

Mark Cameron: That's one way often times that a pleaser attachment style is formed, when a child becomes the good kid most of the time to regulate a parent in some way. But what you're saying is that's how you were able to get attention from it.

Whenever you put on events, you're going to get some people who are going to like it and some people who are not going to like it. That's just the way that life works. Not everybody likes the same flavor ice cream. Some people love it and some people detest it. Like Brian's shirt, not everybody likes it. I love your shirt, by the way.

But one of the growth goals for the pleaser here, Rose, is learning to tolerate disapproval and disappointment from others. I find that it's either the gateway or the gatekeeper to a pleaser's growth. Because a pleaser usually gives in and they're usually pleasing everyone else, and so to lean the other way is to learn to get more of a "me" rather than leaning in so much to the "we."

"We" is good, but we also have a "me" identity too. Balance in relationships is healthy. Sometimes people don't like something and you think it's okay, and so it's learning to tolerate that disapproval or that disappointment and to be okay with that.

It's a challenge inside to do that because that's typically what drives the pleasing behavior, is because I don't want other people to be upset. And so in learning how to manage that is how you actually be able to regulate that pleasing behavior in yourself.

Rose: Okay, that's a good point. Thank you.

Alice Benton: Rose, I think you and I would get along because I also just have a drive to do things so well and so right. It serves me really well and society rewards me for it. But I can also be kind of an annoying person to be around. I'm a goody two-shoes. It drove my siblings crazy.

If we're too much on the goody two-shoes side of things, we do rub people wrong. Sometimes, like Mark is saying, that's okay. I'm still going to do this anyhow because I know what I'm doing is good and right and it's what God is calling me to.

But we goody two-shoes can be self-righteous. We can be kind of rigid. And sometimes we don't take advice well because it can hurt us so badly when people give us negative feedback. So I would have you go to a couple of people you trust to say, "What's it like to be around me or to work with me when I'm being too much? And what does it even mean that I am too much?" Make sure it's people who will give you truth with a lot of love and grace so that you can receive it from them.

Just on a superficial level, perhaps presenting your plans to these churches ahead of time in great detail, you might then be able to suss out what's too much for this church. Do you need to back down if you want to coordinate better with churches? Because it sounds like you pulled back entirely from one church because they were so mad. That's pretty mysterious. But it may be that some of your style, some of your presentation, it might turn people off, which I don't want for you because you have a great ministry. So some coordination there might help.

Mark Cameron: Here's what I'd add to that. Sometimes when people are perfectionistic, they can tend to be controlling. Not necessarily in a domineering way, but like Alice said, it can come off as rigid, like it needs to be this way, and that can really be a turnoff to other people. So as you seek that feedback as Alice is suggesting here, be open to that's how, even though it's unintentional, it may come off that way.

In my book *Understanding Your Attachment Style*, I have a whole host of growth goals for the pleaser attachment style as well as the other attachment styles, so that might be a helpful resource for you.

Alice Benton: My daughter's also a natural goody two-shoes, so we have a club. But we also have to be careful not to go over the top. My son, when he heard that, he said, "I'm going to be a baddy one-shoe." So we have warring factions in our home.

Mark Cameron: How can I join that club? The baddy one-shoe?

Alice Benton: Put in a resume.

Brian Perez: Rose, thanks for calling in today. Mark's book is available in the newlife.com store. It's called *Understanding Your Attachment Style*. We've also got an article called *The Paralysis of Perfectionism* that is on newlife.com, but we'll drop a link to it in the show notes there. Rose, thank you so much for calling in today here on New Life Live.

Now here is Teresa in Spokane who listens to us on newlife.com. Hi there, Teresa. How can we help you today?

Teresa: Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'll try to be brief and then I'm glad to fill in. I'm calling because I have what I think is a pretty dysfunctional extended birth family. They live and do a lot of things together. They live about an hour and a half away from me.

They used to include me more and my family, but now I feel left out. They just don't include me in things. They gaslight me a lot where they'll say they did, but they didn't. Or they'll say, "We didn't hear from you, so we didn't think you were coming." But actually I sent three emails responding and a text responding. So there seems to be a lot of gaslighting going on with it all also.

Brian Perez: Wow. What do you guys think?

Alice Benton: You said they're fairly dysfunctional. Would you give a couple of examples? Is there alcohol or drugs involved?

Teresa: No, none of that. Just I have two siblings, both younger, and my father's passed, my mom's alive. My mom and I butt heads a lot. I think she's just really emotionally immature and just lacks skills, so she just gets mean if our conversation gets challenging.

Then my sister is sort of the secret bad spy sort of person who has all the power in the family given to her by my parents. She just silently wreaks havoc and destruction, and I've always been her number one target growing up.

My brother, who is a lot younger but still in his 50s, he's just narcissistic as well as my sister. And then they're married, they're both both my siblings are married with kids and it's just, for example, for Easter we always go.

I drive hour 45 minutes up to where they live to go to the church there. We've gone to the church there for several years. My father's funeral was there, my sister sings in the choir there. It's a large church. We always sit in generally the same area, and whoever gets there first saves seats for the other people and we always go to the 11:00 AM service.

So I drive my hour 45 minutes, get there a little early, save seats for everyone. No one shows up and I'm texting them, "Where are you?" And then eventually I get a text saying, "Oh, we went to the 9:30 service." And they never told me. And when I addressed it, they said, "You never asked." I said, "How would I know to ask?"

That's what it's like with them. It just keeps going on and on and it feels worse and worse. I could give you all sorts of examples, I'm glad to fill in anything. But the bottom line is I just feel devastated by their actions all the time. I'm trying so hard to be emotionally regulated and to create my own sort of backstory that I can refer to. Things like "They're your family, you love them, but don't let them take over your life."

Alice Benton: Teresa, I'm going to say something tough because I care about you. I think you keep hoping and maybe even expecting that your family will somehow one day treat you like you should be treated. I think you're expecting the impossible. Not that they couldn't change, but I don't think they're at all interested in changing.

So what I want to talk with you about after the break is this may be a case if they are unwilling to change, unwilling to get help. And have you ever asked? So we'll find out later, have you ever asked?

You may have to find other better people to fill your life up with because these people have a history of mistreating you and there's no sign of change coming.

Brian Perez: Teresa, we'll come back to you when we return from the break here on New Life Live. We've got some other calls that we want to get to as well. So thanks for watching and listening.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Okay, back to Teresa. You with us, Teresa?

Teresa: Yes.

Brian Perez: Okay, so Alice had a question for you. Do you remember it?

Teresa: Well, she commented, but I don't remember the exact questions.

Alice Benton: Have you ever pointed out in a calm, respectful way the disconnect with your family and asked if they're willing to work on it?

Teresa: I have not done that. I just felt that it would be met with "You're the problem. What are you talking about?"

Alice Benton: That does seem likely given the family dynamic and how long this has been going on. But I would wonder, as they are somewhat devoted Christians, if you haven't asked, you really can't know the answer. You're assuming the answer and you might be right. But sometimes it's surprising what people will be willing to talk about and even get help for if they're just asked. It should happen without being asked, without having to ask. But it won't unless you give it an attempt.

So I hope you'll go to the safest of this group. I don't know who that is. And let them know, "I'm feeling lonely, feeling left out, I'm confused about the miscommunication. Would you be willing to talk with me about it? Is it something about me? Can we work on this so I can be better involved in the family?"

If you get the kind of answer you're expecting, then I think we stick with my first instinct, which is these are unhealthy people that don't want to grow. And so then remember God sets the lonely in families. You may have to start building a spiritual family because you can only expect more of the same from your biological family.

Mark Cameron: Teresa, I think Alice is right in terms of how to find some resolve in this situation. I think it's a family system issue that has actually set up this problem. It sounds like your mom, like you described, is emotionally immature and then gets mean likely when her ideal was not met. That probably set you and your siblings up to win her approval when her approval should have been given to you without condition. She should have just loved you and cared for you, but it sounds like it set you guys up to tattle on each other or to try and be the favorite. And that's very unfortunate.

As Alice is saying, I mean, you know, you've probably been trying this for decades. It is worth to explicitly go to someone and sit down and say, "Hey, can we resolve this?" But if that won't happen, then it's learning to grieve, grieve that this is how your family is and that they don't want to change. And then learning to detach in a healthy way and set up certain boundaries.

As you do that, you'll change your expectations. I would get into some individual therapy just to process this whole thing. It really is helpful just to talk through these things and then have an independent third party maybe point out different woundings that have occurred through your experiences. That is very helpful in getting you to be able to see when that wounding is happening for you again and then learning how to self-soothe.

Alice Benton: Teresa, I confronted some tough angry family members and said, "I don't like being treated this way. Can we work on this and figure it out?" And a couple of them said sure. And they're not perfect, but they're willing to repair with me, and I'm not perfect either.

And one said, "No, I don't want to change for you. I don't like what you're asking of me." And so I had to decide that's heartbreaking. Well, then I really have to limit my interaction in this relationship then because it's just too painful for me and you're not willing to change. So we'll see each other infrequently. If you ever change your mind, let me know.

Brian Perez: That Bible verse that you mentioned at the beginning of the show about God setting the lonely in families, I think it's a beautiful verse to read, but at the same time, it's like, "But I want my family. Why do I have to go looking for someone else or hoping someone finds me? I already have these people. Why can't they just change and we can all get along and be wonderful at holidays and everything?"

Mark Cameron: And I would say that's a legitimate desire, but it doesn't always work out that way. And that's where we have to grieve at times.

Alice Benton: And sometimes if they lose Teresa, then they might say, "Oh, where is she? Actually, we kind of miss her. We want her back." So sometimes the loss changes the willingness to look at what the original problem was.

Brian Perez: Do you think your book *Understanding Your Attachment Style* would be good?

Mark Cameron: Absolutely. I think it'd be a good book to help her understand the dynamic.

Brian Perez: Yes, pick that up for sure. That's in the newlife.com store. *Understanding Your Attachment Style* by Mark Cameron. And we've also got a tip sheet. We'll put the link to it in the show notes there. It's called *How to Identify Your Attachment Style* because you might be thinking, "What is an attachment style?"

Mark Cameron: An attachment style is a bonding style. There's 80 years of research that shows that we all have a bonding style. And there's only one secure one, but there are several insecure ones. Our childhood relationships with our parents shape us in a certain way, and as I talked about some of your dynamics here, Teresa, I think your childhood has shaped you in a particular way and it's left you with this longing for connection. But then you keep there's an idealization there that Alice was pointing out, that you're wanting to keep wanting to get this connection that's not going to happen.

The good news about attachment research is how to earn a secure attachment style and there's particular growth goals that each attachment style has to work to recondition. All these attachment styles like the controller and the victim and everything else, it's not that we're born with them, but they are developed in us early on, whereas the secure attachment style is something we have to work on.

That's God's design for us. And there's many non-Christian researchers that have observed that there's a particular design for bonding, and as Christians, we believe God designed attachment and God designed that bonding style. No matter how broken your history has been or your style is right now, we can all move toward secure attachment. It's really just the sanctification process. Jesus is the only perfectly securely attached human being. And he gives us the example and we can learn to live better by it.

Brian Perez: Teresa, thanks for your phone call today here on New Life Live. We've got to take a break and we've got more phone calls coming up. I'm Brian Perez here with Dr. Alice Benton and Mark Cameron. Pick up his book *Understanding Your Attachment Style*. Did you see what I just did? I just picked up your book, literally. I just picked up his book. But you can get your own copy in the newlife.com store. We'll be right back.

Becky Brown: Hello, it's Becky Brown. I am so excited to launch our 99 for the 1 partner initiative. Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways.

And it reminds us of the story in Luke 15 where the shepherd leaves the 99 to go rescue the one. You know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the 1 is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433 or newlife.com/9941.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Ladies, if sexual betrayal is part of your story, start planning now to join us November 13th in Washington, DC for the Restore Healing After Betrayal workshop. Restore is for women who've been wounded by sexual betrayal and have a desperate desire to move forward but don't know how.

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Here is Amber in Sacramento who listens to us on SiriusXM channel 131. Hi, Amber. Welcome to New Life Live.

Amber: Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Question is, my husband and I have been married for 25 years. We have three teenagers in the household in high school. They're academic, they're athletic, but our biggest conflict comes with our middle child. My husband and her constantly fight and bicker, and it just changes the whole tone and temperature in the house when they are together.

I feel like he's critical, I feel like she's disrespectful, and I'm just juggling how to be supportive of my husband as we're raising these kids, and then also trying to be the best advocate for my daughter and helping her grow and take ownership as she's becoming a young adult.

Mark Cameron: So it sounds like you're feeling this tension between seeing your husband, I think you said being somewhat critical, and your daughter also being disrespectful and reacting to that. What does your intuition tell you that you should be doing?

Amber: It feels like things that my husband and I talk about, we need to be having these conversations behind closed doors between him and I before tackling hard things. But sometimes what I observe is that she comes through the door and the first thing is, "Why isn't your room clean? Why didn't you put away laundry? Why did you leave dishes out?"

And instead of saying, "Welcome back home, glad you're here, here's the list of things that need to get done today before you do XYZ," it feels very reactive. And so then it feels like it almost puts both her and I on the defense like, "Whoa, let's get home, let's have a plan."

When I've approached my husband on this, he says, "I need you to respect me. I need you to be behind my back." And I'm like, "Same team. Yes, both of us are we want our children to be independent and respectful and to take care of things in the house." But it feels very quick. And so it makes me want to defend her and let her know that's not how I would talk to a friend, that's not how I would talk to my spouse. And so it feels like I have to defend her and say, "Hey, if you want to approach her on things that need to be done, maybe let's talk about it in this way." Because it's not what's being said, it's how it's being said.

Alice Benton: Was his criticism towards your daughter, was that a sudden change in character for him and is it only at her?

Amber: I think so. Three teenagers, they're all unpredictable, they all have their own highs and lows. But the other two we would say are just easy. They just do the right thing, they're just easy to parent. The middle one, she's just not easy. She runs hot on her emotions, she wears it on her sleeve, she's more emotional. And so I don't think he's used to that one, running with somebody with high emotions.

And then she pushes back a lot like, "Why? Why do I have to do that?" And I'm a parent who's like, "I'm okay if my kids ask why can't I do that because I want you to understand why we have boundaries and why we put up these limitations and why we need you to have ownership." But for him he's like, "That's so disrespectful, I would have never been able to do that with my own parents." And I said, "We need to be different. We need to be that safe spot for her."

And instead I feel like a lot of their conflict comes from him not being able to, I hate to use the word control, but him not being able to have a bigger presence or more of a response that he would prefer and vice versa. I think she's wondering like why can't he just support every decision I make? And it's like well, as your parent we can't. We've got to parent you.

Alice Benton: Amber, what do you think is his worst fear of what might happen if she spins out and her issues get worse?

Amber: That she would not be responsible with money, that she wouldn't be responsible with things in our household like the vehicle that we let her drive. That she would fall behind on grades and not be able to go on. It's kind of the catastrophizing like, "Well if she doesn't get good grades then she can't get a scholarship. If she can't take care of the car she'll get in a car accident."

Alice Benton: Were those things ever true of him?

Amber: I would say from his family origin, I think a lot of that was put on him to be respectful, to take care of things. So he's highly detailed, highly motivated versus she tends not to see the socks in the middle of the hallway. She'll walk by dishes on the counter because she just honestly, I think, doesn't see them and he thinks it's being disrespectful that she doesn't see them and help out.

Mark Cameron: I think your intuition is correct here, Amber. I think you've got a good assessment of it because if he's on her as soon as she walks in the door, while it's not okay to be disrespectful, you understand why she's becoming upset because she doesn't feel like he's caring for her.

Your husband may be more of an avoidant attachment style. Avoidants are typically performance-based and very high on focus on responsibility. But the teenage phase is a purposeful phase that the Lord has built in and during those teenage years, teenagers go through something called neuro-pruning where the brain starts to in mass get rid of information that it thinks it doesn't need to make room for new information. It's biological here. It really is.

And they start to question their parents. For the first ten years of life, they believe everything their parents say and then afterwards it's like, "No, because YouTube says this." And all of a sudden their peers become more credible to them.

It's a difficult situation and so the teenage years are not teenagers are not problems to be solved, they're relationships to be managed. What's happening is it's triggering something in him as she's going through this phase. And so what I would suggest is learning how to do the comfort circle. There's a great book called *How We Love Our Kids* and it talks about family of origin and how they shape us to be a certain attachment style.

But *How We Love Our Kids* talks particularly about attachment styles in kids and attachment styles in parents and how those two can end up reacting toward one another in a particular pattern. Learning to engage her in certain ways to ask certain thoughtful questions to draw her out.

But also recognizing that teens break all social norms. You'll tell them to do something and they'll sigh. They'll roll their eyes. They'll stomp away. That just doesn't happen at work. It doesn't typically happen in friendships. And so they push these buttons and so we need to figure out what is going on on the inside of us, what is that triggering in us.

And yes, responsibility building is key, but also learning to give them grace. My kids are no longer teens anymore, thank goodness made it through that stage. But I actually had to put a reminder on my phone and the reminder was "Remember it's hard to be a teenager." And I had that pop up every single day to remind me of all of the ways that they would break social norms and do things that really bothered me so that I could have some compassion and grace and instead of leaning into the criticism, more lean into doing the comfort circle and try and create a disciple rather than create punishments.

Alice Benton: Please also consider family therapy, counseling or coaching. Because you have great ideas, but your husband can't hear them from you, I don't think. So maybe he can hear them from a professional and learn how effective things like leveraging are rather than commands. And so we can connect you with a counselor in our network if you're interested in that.

Brian Perez: For sure. And you can go to newlife.com in the store there and pick up the book called *How We Love Our Kids* which talks all about the comfort circle that you can use there with your family. We've also got a couple of articles on newlife.com, *How to Talk to Teens* and *Loving Your Teen Even When It's Hard*. So we'll drop links to those in the show notes there. Thank you so much for calling today, Amber.

This is New Life Live and many people want to find the one. Well, we find the ones all the time. They come to us feeling like the one who's too broken, too addicted, too far gone for help. But through New Life's counseling, broadcasts, events and recovery community, they meet truth and grace instead of clichés.

I want to invite you to do more than just watch or listen from a distance. Become a 99 for the 1 partner and help shoulder the cost of going after the one so there's always a place for them to land, heal and start again. If your heart breaks for the one, become a 99 for the 1 partner and stand in that gap. You can learn more at newlife.com/9941.

We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back with more of your phone calls. Thank you so much for watching and listening today. Thanks for telling your friends about New Life, especially when they're hurting. Just tell them to call us. We are here for them on New Life Live.

New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Hey, friend, we need a favor. We're going to be moving soon. Would you help us move? No, no, I don't mean coming down to our warehouse and helping us load heavy boxes and furniture onto a truck. We've got Alice to help us do that.

We have a lot of resources that will look better on your shelf than on ours. So swing by newlife.com and take a look at what we've got. Supplies are limited. Some items are like a buck or two. Visit newlife.com and click store. The more you buy, the less we have to take with us to our new location.

Alice Benton: I am good at lifting heavy stuff. How'd you know that?

Brian Perez: Well, I just had a feeling. And afterwards you can help clean out the what do they call that before we move out of the old location? You can use my shirt as a wipe everything down.

Viv in Lebanon, Pennsylvania, listening on WBYN. Welcome to New Life Live.

Viv: Thank you. I've got a 58-year-old son that I thought I was kind of close to in relationship. And he just very suddenly started sending me the most hideous, horrible texts. Real long and just railing about things and telling me off and accusing me of things.

And his main thing seems to be he's so upset because he hates Martin Luther and the Reformers. And all they don't have they didn't have the right to do anything and I'm supposed to repent of being in my evangelical church and I'm supposed to follow his lead. I showed these things to my counselor here and she said it just reeks of mental illness, possibly bipolar or something similar to that. I just wondered just wondered what your thought was about what in the world I'm supposed to do. We don't live close, we're thousands of miles apart.

Mark Cameron: It does sound very extreme and like a mental health issue. But you said it's all of a sudden and he's 58 years old. Is that right?

Viv: Right.

Mark Cameron: So this what was your relationship like with him before and how has he been before this?

Viv: Well, he drives at night, that's his job, truck driving. And we would be we would be on the phone in a just talking and chatting three, four, sometimes three, four nights a week. I just felt like I was helping him get to his destination.

And just all of a sudden here came a text from my son and I you could have knocked me over with a feather when I read all the horrible things that were in there.

Mark Cameron: Wow. Well, let me tell you this that bipolar disorder doesn't come on. The onset isn't at 58 years old. It usually happens late teens, early 20s when bipolar disorder comes on. So I wonder if this is something else. Could be another mental health related issue and it most likely is unless it's substance-induced. Unless there's some kind of substances that he's taking right now. Do you know of any alcohol or drugs that he may be using?

Viv: Not that I'm aware of. I know he drinks wine sometimes at home, but I never thought it was excessive.

Alice Benton: There are also medical problems that can lead to bizarre changes in presentation. Whether, I hate to say this, but sometimes a brain tumor can lead to total change in personality. Or things like a UTI can lead to paranoia. And so it could be medically based.

Viv: Well I thought that because it seems to have when I look back, it's like it was kind of coming on slowly ever since he had his open heart surgery last year.

Alice Benton: Oh.

Mark Cameron: Is he married, have kids?

Viv: Yes, he has a daughter. And I just don't know. I don't even know if they've noticed anything. I don't know if he's doing this to them or if it's just me.

Alice Benton: Are you in touch with your daughter-in-law?

Viv: Well, I've talked with her just generally. My counselor kind of said, "Well, don't don't involve her in this." So I'm not quite sure.

Alice Benton: I'm of a different opinion, and your counselor knows the story more than I do, so please consider my limited knowledge. But if he has a sudden medical problem and he's not aware of it because he sounds like he's ignorant to the fact that he's all of a sudden mistreating you like this and it usually doesn't just go to one person. It's so likely that this is leaking out on your daughter-in-law and your granddaughter.

So to contact your daughter-in-law to say, "Hey, I'm just concerned, noticing some really sudden changes in my son. Are you seeing that too?" Because you all might need to get in touch with his doctors if he doesn't know and he's not being upfront with people about what's happening to him. And if it is something like a tumor or a UTI, people don't usually know that's going on and they don't know they don't recognize the changes in their personality. So I would say make a call to your daughter-in-law soon and possibly try to get ahold of one of his doctors to let them know what's going on.

Mark Cameron: Or have her do that if she's noticing the same behaviors. As Alice is saying, it's most likely not you here, but this behavior pushes other people away whether it's intentional or it's not intentional. And so yes, I would express concern as you reach out. I mean if your counselor is concerned that you're going to try and triangulate and that may make things worse, I wouldn't do that. But I would express concern as Alice is saying.

And then for your own emotional safety, you may have to distance from him right now. I mean you can't solve this issue for him. All you can do is express the concern and then limit yourself. And that may include even blocking him for a while from his text messages if they're that bothersome for you.

You might tell him, "Son, you've become really harsh and intense in these texts. So I'd either like to know what the problem is, what has happened between us," and we already know it's partly the church, but he's changed his treatment of you so severely. And then, "Son, if you can't be gentler with me, I won't be able to read your messages for now, not until you're willing to get help and willing to talk about what's going on between us."

Brian Perez: What if Viv starts to think, "Well, maybe I am in the wrong, maybe he's right, maybe I do need to listen to him." But it sounds very controlling or manipulative, would you say?

Alice Benton: Even if a person is right in the concern they're expressing, if they're doing it in an abusive way, then the abuse is so problematic, that needs to be addressed first before the underlying problem, I think.

Mark Cameron: Nobody gets won over by coercion and mistreatment. And we all also have to accept that people see things differently than us and emotional maturity, even though we might not like that, we need to accept that people have different opinions.

Brian Perez: Viv, thanks for calling us today here on New Life Live. Does all this help you?

Viv: Yes, somewhat. I can put a little few more things together.

Mark Cameron: And maybe have your counselor listen to this call too and see what she thinks about what we're saying. She may agree, it may give her a new idea or she may have a different thought about it, some information that we don't know.

Brian Perez: Viv, thanks for calling us today here on New Life Live. We're just about out of time for today's show. Let me remind you guys of our website, newlife.com. There is so much going on there. You should bookmark our website, you can sign up for our newsletter, sign up for our daily devotional too.

That's a great way to start your day. You can get all that at newlife.com. We've also got links to our social media, including our YouTube channel where many of you are watching right now. Thank you so much for watching, by the way. You can like and subscribe and comment and share the videos with your friends.

If you hear something that really hits home for you or maybe you have a friend who's in a similar situation to the calls that we had today, and you can tell them, "Hey, you've got to check out today's episode of New Life Live." We're also podcasting wherever you get your podcasts, so check that out too.

And we just ask that you continue to keep us in your prayers and everyone who calls into the show going through difficult situations. Write down their names in your prayer journal and just remember to lift them up before the Lord because there's so many hurting people out there. That's why we are here.

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