New Life LIVE

Brian Perez: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

We hope you had a nice Resurrection Sunday weekend with your family. I'm your host Brian Perez and this is New Life Live. Joining me for two hours in the studio today are clinical psychologist Dr. Alice Benton and licensed marriage and family therapist, author Mark Cameron.

If trauma, doubt, fear, or anything else is holding you back, maybe even a combination of things, give us a call. Maybe you don't even know what it is that's keeping you stuck. Well, it doesn't have to stay that way. Call us for free advice at 1-800-229-3000. Mark, so good to see you! What's on your mind to start us off?

Mark Cameron: Oh, so good to be here. Well, I want to share a story here. I've been gone for a few weeks, and people might be wondering why, and I'm going to explain here. A few weeks ago, I began a therapy session hoping to help a couple with their struggles, but instead, they ended up helping me by taking me to the hospital.

About halfway through the session, I began experiencing this pain in my left side and it escalated so quickly that I ended up on the floor, feeling like I wanted to throw up and almost passing out. Now, a few months earlier, I'd had a CT scan for something unrelated and they'd found a small kidney stone in there.

And so when the pain hit, I had a pretty good idea what was happening, thank goodness, though I admit I tried to convince myself that this wasn't really happening and maybe it was just a cramp. Now, if you've never had a kidney stone and you don't know what the pain feels like, it's often compared to childbirth. It's really very, very painful.

But the episode lasted about 10 minutes and then just as quickly as it came, it went away and I was able to get into the car and they drove me to the ER. I waited a couple of hours and the doctor did a CT scan and he said, "Hey, we don't see anything, so you probably just passed it."

Now, I so desperately wanted that to be true because here's a physician, he's the expert, he's telling me it's gone. And even though my body didn't feel quite right, I thought, well, the scan's clear, it's done. But sure enough, a few hours later, at 4 o'clock in the morning, I woke up in agony and this time it lasted for two hours.

My wife took me to the ER, and it was another two-hour wait but this time I was in severe pain. And they spent the next few days trying to figure out where it was. I was hospitalized and in the end, I had to have a procedure done to take it out, but not before a few more brutal episodes.

So here's the takeaway beyond explaining why I've been absent from the show. A lot of people I sit with in therapy, they have pain in their future that they deny when it's clear to see what's going to happen. Sometimes it shows up briefly and then it fades and it gives the illusion that the problem's gone now.

But problems left unaddressed don't disappear. They come back bigger and more painful. And for some, that's an unhealthy relationship with an abuser, a manipulator, a cheater. For others, that's an addiction that they refuse to admit, or they're having an affair. It's a double life that they're living and they think, "Oh, I can live this."

And some people are just stuck in codependency. They're repeatedly bailing out a family member only for that person's problem to get worse because they're not learning responsibility for their own life's outcomes. Now, we all have this tendency to convince ourselves that the best path is the least painful one in the moment.

But eventually, the stone drops, causing more suffering than if we had dealt with it before it snowballed. And even when we refuse to admit reality, consequences still apply. So emotionally healthy people, they get things wrong too, but they face reality. They make adjustments.

They learn not just from their pain but from the insight from others because real growth happens when we're willing to face hard things. Now, sometimes in therapy, I'll ask people, "What would you tell a close friend if they were in your situation?" And almost every time, they already know the best path forwards.

So here's my question for listeners. What's the hard thing in your life right now that you are avoiding or you're denying that's going to lead to greater pain if you don't deal with it? Give us a call if you're unsure how to move forward and let us help you figure out that path.

Brian Perez: Sometimes it's easier to—or we think it's easier to—just keep going and hoping that it's not going to get worse. But when it does, we wish we had gone back and taken care of it sooner. So let's take care of it today. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Doug, you're next.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. A new episode of the Every Man's Battle podcast dropped today and if you're not listening, you are missing out. It's a podcast that breaks the silence around sexual integrity struggles that millions of men face but rarely discuss openly.

Through honest conversations with seasoned counselors, each episode offers practical strategies against the struggles and genuine hope to build men back up and experience freedom. You can find today's episode at newlife.com, on our YouTube channel or app, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And please listen, subscribe, share, and rate or review the podcast. It helps others find us. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call, and we're going to go to Columbus, Ohio and speak with Doug, who listens to us on newlife.com. Hey, Doug, thanks for calling in today. What's your question?

Doug, you there? Doug, you might be on mute, Doug. Check your phone. Did you press mute? Okay, we'll check back with Doug. Instead, we'll go to Ben in Fargo, North Dakota listening on KNDR. Welcome, Ben.

Ben: Hello.

Brian Perez: Hi, what's your question for us today?

Ben: Well, I've been struggling with some major depression for quite a few months now. I've had depression all my life, on and off, but I had a surgery back in 2012 and I had another—that was for a suspected lung cancer, which it wasn't.

And in 2025, I had a knee replacement and after that, I—this spring, I had fallen down and I had a torn rotator cuff that was operated on in March. And I've had these severe bouts of depression before.

And I know I went to doctors, I've had ECT treatments, I've had multiple medications, I've seen different counselors, and I know there's an element of some codependency on here with my wife, too, me being dependent on her.

And I'm 70 years old, and facing the fact that I might lose a marriage, and it would be my third time at the plate with that. I just don't know what to—at the end of my rope. I've been suicidal thinking more than once.

I haven't taken any actions. I did take all the weapons out of my home a long time ago, give them to a neighbor just for safekeeping, but I don't know what my next steps are. I've been in the hospital several times with it, too, and I don't know.

Dr. Alice Benton: Ben, as you're suffering in another episode of depression, is your wife talking about separating from you?

Ben: Yes. That adds more stress to the situation already, too.

Dr. Alice Benton: And you've had two other marriages that ended in divorce?

Ben: Correct.

Dr. Alice Benton: And as you've gotten so many different kinds of treatment, what kind of ongoing treatment are you receiving right now?

Ben: I'm just taking an antidepressant and some sleeping medicine because I don't sleep very well. And I have a therapist I see. I actually saw him this morning for the first time in about a week and a half or so.

But other than that, I follow up with my physician, my psychiatric physician. I follow up with him fairly regular on it, too, and all he does is try to do different med adjustments, which I guess is part of it, too, but sometimes I wonder if I've gotten too much medicine.

Dr. Alice Benton: And would you tell us, in addition to the struggles in these marriages, what else would you say might be a root cause of a lifelong depression? You must have had a difficult childhood.

Ben: Well, I was adopted. I was six weeks old when I was adopted. I have a deformity on my face on one half of it. That always bothered me. But I was adopted and I did a lot of drinking in my earlier life to try to combat some of that.

To try to feel like I fit in. I sometimes just never felt like I fit in, was picked on as a child, you know how kids can be. And some of that still sticks with me today when I see people and they kind of look at—I mean, I guess I look at people, too, but when they look back at me, I just feel they're staring at me.

Dr. Alice Benton: You have had such a rough start, and it's never really gotten any easier. At this point in your life, do you have close men that you can trust who love you well?

Ben: Not real—maybe a couple. I don't know how much love we got, but I've abandoned a lot of my friends that I used to have in my former lives just because of moving on and marrying a new woman.

We've been married for 17 years now. We've been together for 23. This was the longest I've been with anybody and she's been really, really good, but it's burning her out bad, too. And she's at the point of, if you don't get better, I'm just going to have to push you out.

Push you away, and that scares me. I've never really been alone much, really, hardly ever in my life. I've always had a mother or somebody that took care of me, and that's what scares me.

Mark Cameron: Well, Ben, I feel for you here. I mean, your life began with an abandonment happening when you were adopted at six weeks old, and now you've got this threat of abandonment for something that you don't really have control over with this depression here.

Now, sometimes depression is a symptom of unresolved issues, and sometimes there's just an underlying chemical imbalance and for you, maybe there's a little bit of both here. Do you know what your diagnosis is? Is it recurrent major depressive disorder or is it something else?

Ben: They're calling it major depressive disorder with anxiety, too, general anxiety with it, too.

Mark Cameron: Well, I definitely think part of the treatment is, if you haven't already, getting into therapy and processing through the early life experiences that happened to you. We have two types of memory that we form: we form implicit memories and explicit memories. And for the first few years of life, we form the implicit memories.

And those are bodily feeling state memories that don't have a narrative event to it. So even though we don't remember our earliest childhood years, it still impacts us and our body remembers. And being able to process through how that may have impacted you as a child, even if you don't remember it, can actually be helpful in integrating those parts of the brain to help heal.

But I'm also hearing that you are on antidepressants and you said you've tried ECT. Have you ever tried something called TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation?

Ben: No, I have not tried that, no.

Mark Cameron: Okay. I recommend looking into that. It's quite an expensive therapy and insurance is hesitant to cover it unless you've actually—what they called "failed" the other types of treatment. So you've failed antidepressants, it hasn't really helped.

So transcranial magnetic stimulation might be something to—I would recommend looking into it because it can be very, very effective to target different parts of your brain. And it's exactly what it sounds like. It's this magnetic stimulation, the waves that target the places in your brain where depression is most likely coming from, and that can help alleviate the symptoms.

So I would recommend a mix of both of those things: targeting the depression and then also processing through some of this loss that you've had in your life, your early life experiences and your marriages.

Dr. Alice Benton: Ben, I have had a couple of similar cases in my own private practice of folks like you who just have such weighty, lifelong depression and hardly anything seems to work and break through. And I just encourage you not to give up the fight because it's always better to try, even if you're having little to no success, than to not try.

And it sounds like you've been doing that. A couple of other things you might consider adding on or trying again if you already have: a stint of inpatient treatment. I'd be very choosy if I were you, not just any inpatient psychiatric ward, but there are some great facilities that New Life is connected with and we can give you some information off air about it for a solid inpatient program.

Adding in a men's group of men who are actively in recovery and we've got our New Life Recovery Groups all over the country for that. There's another brain treatment called Cereset, which is not as expensive and it's similar to what Mark was describing, so also look into Cereset. They have clinics all over the United States.

And the last one is EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. Just another form of therapy that can get at the brain, the memories, the struggle in a different way. And lastly, I would just say that when all your trying is not working, it's good to look at how long are you sticking with it? Are you leaving things prematurely? And how frequently are you participating in any of the various forms of treatment?

Because duration and frequency can then be adjusted and that is sometimes where a breakthrough is. I guess I've got just one more thought, Brian, I need to add, which is, Ben, spiritual warfare. And so looking into deliverance ministries and being prayed over and having the demonic prayed against also sometimes leads to a breakthrough.

Brian Perez: And if I can add a couple of resources, there's a Healing is a Choice course that's starting next month. We'll give you more details on that as well. You can go to newlife.com. And we've got a tip sheet on depression called Signs, Symptoms, and Solutions.

We're going to put information to these right there in the show notes if you're watching online. Thank you, Ben, for calling us today here on New Life Live. And now let's try Doug in Columbus, Ohio. You there with us, Doug?

Doug: All right, you got me.

Brian Perez: All right, great! How can we help you today, sir?

Doug: Boy, I got a tough one for you. You ready? I'm living in the misery of a sexless marriage and I am at the point where I need to make some incredibly difficult life decisions and I just thought I'd ask you if you can give me any kind of insight.

The bottom line here is, after 45 years of work, we have had 100% failure. My wife just will not consider any forms of physical intimacy. This was first announced to me on our wedding night when I tried to unzip her. She told me on that night that, "Oh, by the way, I'm not interested in sex. That shouldn't be a problem, right?" and she went to bed.

I spent three years waiting for that night. And we've done every therapy imaginable, prayer, you name it, we've done it. And so my question isn't how do you heal a sexless marriage? I do not believe this is ever going to get healed.

The question I now face as a Christian man, as an almost 70-year-old virgin, I need to do something for myself. I need to meet this need, which God gave me. I can't understand why, but He did. And what do I do? How do I meet this need knowing that my marriage will never supply it?

Dr. Alice Benton: What a painful 45 years, Doug. What's your wife's explanation and is there a history of sexual trauma?

Doug: That's what everybody first thinks. She denies that. Well, she doesn't think there's anything wrong. She thinks I'm the problem. But if you're asking me my opinion, I think something set her on this path way, way, way before we ever dated, probably closer to the time of puberty.

I think somebody's explanation of where babies came from was done improperly. She said to me on one occasion—because I've been asking this question for 45 years—and I finally asked the question, "How did you learn about where babies came from?" That's the way I put it.

And she explained to me something that happened when she was nine years old. She was at a church camp and the young girls were getting together to talk about things and the topic of discussion was bunny rabbits for Easter and Santa Claus for Christmas.

And when they explained to them that there's no such thing and they're all crying, somebody brought up where babies came from. And my wife said what she remembers was when she left the Bible thing that she was never going to let a boy touch her. That's the closest I could come to, but it's not a great explanation.

Brian Perez: All right, Doug, we're coming up to a break, so stand by. We're going to hear what Dr. Alice Benton and Mark Cameron have for you today on New Life Live. And we're going to be in the studio for two hours today so you can call in and ask your tough questions, the ones you think you can't ask anywhere else.

Call in to 1-800-229-3000 and we're going to be in the studio for two hours today and we want to hear from you. If you're watching on Facebook or YouTube, the number's right there on the bottom of the screen. 1-800-229-3000.

To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. All right, let's go back to Doug. You still with us, Doug?

Doug: Yes, I'm here.

Brian Perez: All right. What would you guys say?

Dr. Alice Benton: Doug, our hearts are just so heavy for you and that you have chosen fidelity all this time. I am curious that your wife has seemingly willingly participated in variety of treatment. Why? What was her goal? Was it to correct you because you're wrong?

Doug: Yes. She wanted me to stop beating on her about this and move on with the great marriage and life that God has given us. And I agree He does, but she would say, "We need to stop focusing on the one little thing that we don't have."

Dr. Alice Benton: Oh, she just has minimized and dismissed such an important part of marriage for men and women, but particularly for men.

Doug: That's a good way of saying it. She thinks this is my problem. She says, "It's not a marriage problem, it's not my problem, it's your problem."

Dr. Alice Benton: What are you thinking you'll do? What are the drastic measures you're considering to fix this?

Doug: In 45 years, I have this chart on the side of my wall and I keep putting on it the choices that I have in front of me. I keep trying to increase the list. There are nine at this point and every now and then I'll get a 10th one. But obvious choices—a whole bunch of them all have one thing in common: they obviously are all involved in adultery in some way.

There's some other things: drugs, surgery, even suicide's on the list. So there are no good answers on there. There's nothing on there that any Christian would say, "Yeah, you should do one of those things."

Dr. Alice Benton: Does separation or divorce make the list?

Doug: No. That wouldn't fix the problem. That just keeps the problem going and it makes it worse because now you don't even have her. You've got nothing.

Dr. Alice Benton: And you don't want to leave her. You have enough love for her.

Doug: No. I want to make love to my wife. I don't see why that's so wrong. That's what I want.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with your desire here, Doug. In fact, you have a healthy desire. God has made us sexual beings. And I want to correct what your wife is telling you is that sex is a couple's problem. When sex isn't happening—

Doug: Explain to me why would God give me such a strong need and such a beautiful Christian woman knowing that I would be stuck in the prison of a sexless marriage for life? I don't understand.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, these are confusing and this is part of grief when we go through bargaining, when we question things. Often times—and again, I'm not meaning to minimize your situation—but I think it's good to question these things with God.

But also at the same time, God gives us choice and He allows us—we have the diligence to ask good questions and things like that before we make commitments. But again, it sounds like this is something that you didn't know was going to happen and she just surprised this on you.

Doug: It was a shock of a lifetime.

Mark Cameron: Yeah. And so I hear what you're saying is that you're not really wanting to go into the why of things. But there is a why behind it because God makes us all sexual beings. That's His design for us. Her sexuality has become disordered somehow and we don't know how.

Exactly. And so like Alice was saying, there could be some kind of trauma. Something that I do notice too, being an attachment therapist, is that avoidantly attached women can often times be avoidant from sex, from sexual touch, too. And so that could be something that's happening.

But yeah, the difficult thing is that this should be addressed together. So she is complete—from what I'm hearing from you—is she's completely unwilling to address this situation with you.

Doug: She even gets very upset if I even bring up a tiny piece of the subject. She wants to know why I cannot honor her lifelong request to not drag her into this.

Mark Cameron: Well, as you said, all of those other options on there don't seem like good options, and some of them seem like really bad options here. And you said that wouldn't be options that a Christian would pick. What have you been doing up until now for 45 years?

Doug: For 21 years, one of my coping mechanisms was medications. I was on some really powerful medications for a totally unrelated issue. It turned out that those drugs made the sexual part easier for me. They greatly reduced my sex drive.

And I didn't know that. I thought God had answered my prayer to either fix my marriage or take this monkey off my back. When I got out of the hospital and they finally weaned me off all the drugs, my sex drive came back times a thousand.

My whole life just got turned upside down. So I was back into going down that path. I saw 126 sex and pastoral counselors. 126. And eventually, the second coping mechanism that I went to was given to me by my wife in a meeting with my pastor and my sexologist.

And they said that they cannot continue to work with me if I'm—excuse the word "horny"—I can't think of a better word. And so they came up with this plan, which I've been using, but it's not working for me and this is going to peter out pretty quick. And that was pornography and masturbation.

That's not working for me. And so without that, I don't have any tools left in my belt. And I'm very concerned when that day comes, which is coming quick, I'm going to do something truly regrettable.

Dr. Alice Benton: You have been backed into a corner and it seems impossible to continue being a good, strong Christian man or to love your wife well. But we do have a couple of ideas that we want to present to you after this break. Physical intimacy, it's not a true need. Oxygen is a true need. Physical intimacy is not.

It's a want, it's a desire, and it's certainly an urge. But God does give nocturnal emission and that is an outlet. And so it is not a live-or-die need. And I don't think you've surrendered that to God. I think you've obsessed on it. You maybe have even made it an idol.

Now I have great compassion for you and I'm frustrated with your wife because she's not loving you well. She's not even really willing to talk about it and her side of it. And so there's a whole communication problem on your wife's side.

And I just give a plea to wives out there. Women, we need to address our hesitation to physical intimacy, especially if we have a decent husband. Now if your husband is abusive, that's a whole another matter. But if you're married to a good man, I do think women, we have a spiritual, moral, and an emotional duty to try to love our husbands in this way.

And if we can't, we get that checked out and we figure out why and we solve that problem. And I agree with Mark's advice to escalate the situation. And I hope you don't have to get to this point, but I think it'd be okay to—after attempting other forms of boundaries—to say, "I'm going to have to separate for a while.

I have to live somewhere else because this is so uncaring and you're so resistant to even discussing it. I don't feel loved by you. And I'm afraid what I'm going to do. I'm going to put one of us in danger. I'm going to put my spirituality in danger if I stay in close quarters with you and we cannot work on this issue together. So to avoid suicide and infidelity, I am choosing to separate. Please let me know when you're ready to work on this with me."

Brian Perez: Would the Intimacy in Marriage workshop that we do help them?

Dr. Alice Benton: I think that and Every Man's Battle would help them, and Restore for her, because that could get to whatever that baseline is that's so turned her against intimacy.

Brian Perez: Yeah, so we've got three workshops and you can find out all about them at newlife.com. Stay on the phone, we'll let you know about them too. But everyone else, newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. And please have her listen, Doug, to our answer to you afterwards.

If anxiety is part of your silent struggle, you may not even know you have it or maybe you're well aware of it being your constant companion, following you around wherever you go, giving you unsolicited advice. We have help for you.

Join us April 14, a week from tomorrow, for our powerful faith-based online Zoom webinar. It's called Freedom from Fear and Anxiety. This 90-minute webinar will be hosted by licensed professional clinical counselor Becky Brown with special Q&A by Patsy Clairmont.

Biblical wisdom, emotional insight, and practical application to help you experience real change. To get more information about this webinar as well as a free tip sheet on anxiety delivered to you right now, text the word "webinar" to 28950. You can also get details at newlife.com. Let's talk to Sam in Trenton, New Jersey who listens to us on newlife.com. Hi, Sam.

Sam: Hey, I've been totally blind most of my life. I have a hearing loss and I just was involved in a concussion situation last September. Doing the medical stuff, but I feel stuck and things are just really difficult and I'm just calling to see if you guys can give me ideas.

Dr. Alice Benton: Oh, Sam. To be blind most of your life, hearing impaired, and now the concussion? You just must feel like you're getting hit with so many things. And where is God in all of your suffering? Will you tell us about the people that you have around you and the most intimate relationships that you're involved in?

Sam: Well, the first one is my seeing eye dog. And she had nothing to do with my falling off the curb. But the closest people is a pastor friend of mine and his wife, and a girlfriend from the church, one lady from the senior center, and a lot of other people from there.

Some people from the seeing eye dog school I was at and so I have a lot of support that way.

Dr. Alice Benton: Sam, I think sometimes I wonder if pets are angels in disguise, truly. I really wonder if God sends them in that way. So I believe you that your seeing eye dog is number one on that. Where's your family?

Sam: My mother, not really involved. My dad passed away quite a while ago. We were estranged. And my sister, she's spread so thin between working two different jobs and husband and two adult kids, one is married with a wife, so thank God they're doing good.

But there I am and my brother, he's got cancer and he's out near East Pennsylvania.

Dr. Alice Benton: And why is your mom not involved? What was the major rupture between you two?

Sam: A big part of it has to go back to—she managed to get a concussion when she was about five years old. And I found this out from my late grandfather's late girlfriend, which was a relief to know why things went so strange and crazy.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, Sam, so you've had a lot of things happening in your life from the beginning and recently here. As Alice said, your dog was your best friend and you've had three in just one year. You cycle through, and so that is a lot of grief.

Whenever we go through loss, we go through grief and grief has certain stages and one of the stages is this deep underlying sadness. And sometimes we don't often recognize it as depression because it just creeps on in, but I think you've got some depression going on here.

And rightly so, it makes sense where it comes from. So is the struggle right now the low mood that you're experiencing?

Sam: No, it's stresses with my landlord. We're not arguing or disagreeing or anything, but there's obligations that he wanted me to have my dog go to the bathroom in the backyard and my brother-in-law, God bless him, and my sister, they came over and put up construction fencing so that we could walk back there, but we have to touch the house so we don't go near the fencing.

Because it's that narrow of a path and so my landlord is trying not to spend money. He doesn't want to spend money and do the right thing right now. So that's upsetting. I went through nine seeing eye dogs—I mean, I went through three seeing eye dogs in 2024 because my second German Shepherd was attacked and they never found the dog or the owner and she had to go back to the school because she wasn't mentally well anymore able to work.

Dr. Alice Benton: And so, Sam, with these different struggles, how do you think we can best serve you? What's your specific question for us?

Sam: I didn't know if there was any kind of materials I could get ahold of that I could either listen to or read with my medical glasses, smart AI glasses. I use them for every day, they're great, they're brilliant. Materials on grief because I felt like I disappointed myself and my dog, because I couldn't protect her from being attacked.

Brian Perez: We're coming up to a break, Sam, so stay on the phone. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call us today here on New Life Live. And we're going to be in the studio for another hour, so keep calling in.

And when you give to New Life, your generosity helps restore broken marriages and families, helps people break free from addiction, helps them find strength in the midst of depression and grief, and helps people grow deeper in faith and spiritual health.

We are here to hear and to help. All of the transformation that happens through this ministry is because of our faithful supporters and we are so thankful for you. Join the way God is working through New Life by making a gift today at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text N-L-M to 28950.

And to make a difference on a monthly recurring basis, you can become a 99 for the 1 partner. Learn more at newlife.com/9941. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. Mark, what would you say to Sam?

Mark Cameron: Yeah, Sam, this is just a hard, hard time for you. You've had a lot of loss in your life and then you've had a lot of loss recently too. I mean, as Alice said, your dog was your best friend and you've had three in just one year.

Whenever we go through loss, we go through grief and grief has certain stages and one of the stages is this deep underlying sadness. And sometimes we don't often recognize it as depression because it just creeps on in, but I think you've got some depression going on here. And rightly so, it makes sense where it comes from.

So here's a couple of things for you. First of all, I would say community. I mean, I know that you're in community and you've got support, but actually getting into a specific group for grief can be really, really helpful because people are processing through some of the same things.

Often times, sometimes when we share something sad that we're going through with others, they can try and make us look at the bright side of it and they're not as empathetic. It's not their intent to dismiss what we're feeling.

But going through a group with people who are experiencing the same things as you can be really, really helpful. And another thing I think could be a temporary solution here is seeking medication for depression.

Following up with a physician if it's not going away, just starting on some medication can really give you that lift that pulls you out that pit that creates a little bit more motivation and clarity in your thinking. And I think we also have a July grief webinar.

Brian Perez: Yes, we do. And Sam, we're just going to send you a link to that webinar, a free registration just for calling into today to New Life Live, so stay on the phone and we'll get your information and we'll send you that. Alice is hosting it, it's in July, and you can find out all about it at newlife.com.

David in Philadelphia, welcome. How can we help you today?

David: Yes, thank you for taking the call. My question and prayer if possible is my daughter who was born again Christian over 45 years ago. She's never been married, she had five children by different men. I was not married to her mother, she did not grow up in a Christian setting.

However, ever since she was a baby, I dedicated and took her to church until she became grown. And my granddaughters, which I have four granddaughters, I kind of took them all to church because we had a relationship, even though I was not married to her mother.

Well, lately within the last couple of years I noticed she's been living with this woman in California and she just texted me and sent me pictures because she knows I love her regardless. She never came out and told me she was gay.

But I kind of knew it from other members that didn't really say it because this is her business. She's been living with this woman with my granddaughters who are 11 and 13. So they have to live with her and this new woman.

And so just last week I get a text and she says, "I just got married." So she does have enough confidence to tell me she's married to the woman, which I knew she was gay when I talked to her. She said, "I'm in a relationship with a woman."

But she knows I'm a Christian, she really didn't want to tell me, so her own conscience because she knows the Bible and she says she's a Christian, her conscience didn't make her comfortable telling me.

But then when I let her know I loved her, she finally did tell me of the relationship. To make a long story short, last week she texted me and sent me pictures of where her and this woman just got married. And they say they're Christians.

Brian Perez: So how can we help you today, David?

David: So how do I minister to her? How do I let her know I love her? Do I tell her about Sodom and Gomorrah and how God feels about the homosexuality and fornication because I think it's all in the same boat?

And how should I treat her? But yet I don't want to make her think that I condone it or say it's okay because she could feel like, "Well, Dad, you said it was okay." How does a parent make their grown child or even young child, because my granddaughter tells me she's gay.

Mark Cameron: Oh boy. All right. Well, we can't make anyone do or say or think anything, really, not from a free will perspective here. It sounds like not too much has actually changed from her telling you that she got married because it sounds like she was already living with this person and so were your grandkids and you'd known that she'd been gay for a while.

So what's changed is her officially getting married. I wouldn't go down the road of telling her about Sodom and Gomorrah and how scriptures say that this is really, really wrong. I'm not saying that you shouldn't confront someone and speak the truth.

But if she's just now feeling confident enough and feeling loved enough by you to be able to share and open up, I would use that as the opportunity to be curious, to ask thoughtful questions. Again, not to try and lead her into a trap, but build—don't become a one-topic parent. Jim Burns often says this.

So don't make this be the whole focus of your relationship. Talk to her about other things that are going on in her life and share with her about things that are going on in your life. And then when you get an opportunity, be curious and ask her more about her faith and how she reconciles those two things.

It's often times through thoughtful questioning that we reveal ourselves and you can actually challenge someone by asking them questions rather than by telling them what to do.

Dr. Alice Benton: David, I heard your empathy in your voice and your humility that she grew up in a broken home and then she had multiple relationships, multiple babies. And I think life has taught her men aren't safe to be in close romantic relationship with.

And so holding that in your mind and heart that perhaps this is the best way, the safest way she found to be in a loving relationship. As a Christian, I'm opposed to this. I think this is a disordered way of being in a relationship, but it can sure make sense given her history that life sort of pushed her in this direction.

So like Mark, I would lean heavily on telling her, "I'm so glad you were willing to tell me. I feel closer knowing this, and I bet it was tough to tell me." And even though maybe it's obvious why it was tough because it doesn't align with the Christian belief, can you tell me why it was tough and what you were worried would happen when you told me?

Because that might draw out some of that Christian perspective and how she's made sense of it and how she feared you might be judgmental of her. Other than that, I would just pour love on her and your grandchildren and I'd be willing to get to know her partner. And then I would fast and pray in the background that the Holy Spirit would keep pursuing this entire family.

Mark Cameron: Yeah, and one resource I might suggest is a book called Tactics: A Game Plan for Defending Your Christian Values by Greg Koukl. It's just a fantastic book. I love it. I've read it several times and I do at least maybe once a year here.

And his whole approach, really, is to ask really thoughtful questions to draw somebody out and to get them thinking. And he calls it putting a rock in their shoe because when you have a stone in your shoe, it's kind of bothersome. It rolls around and in the end, you've got to do something about it. I think that would be a really good resource for you to check out.

Brian Perez: All right, David, thanks for calling in today to New Life. And we've got a moving sale going on at newlife.com. The more you guys take, the less we have to take with us to our new location. Deeply discounted prices abound, some items as low as a dollar.

It's a great time to stock up on Mother's Day, Father's Day, graduation gifts with great Bibles, devotionals, and other resources. Go to newlife.com and click "Store" and you'll see the banner there for the moving sale.

We're going to be in the studio for another hour, so keep calling in. Rose, you'll be up first here on New Life Live. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.