New Life LIVE

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Hello. Welcome to New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez. We're going to be in the studio for two hours today. Start calling now. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Can't wait to speak with you about whatever it is that's on your mind, whatever you're going through. Mother's Day is just a few weeks away. Do you want to talk about that? Let's talk about it now, because I know we'll get lots of calls about Mother's Day as we get closer to the day, but we can start with that right now. Joining me are Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Mark Cameron, who's also the author of Understanding Your Attachment Style, and Becky Brown is here, too. She's the president of New Life Ministries, and she's also a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor. Becky, how would you like to start today's show before we go to the calls at 1-800-229-3000?

Becky Brown: I want to talk about the big lie. Do you know what a big lie is? A big lie is that time will heal all wounds. And so what we do instead of taking action, we just sit in the pain, or we sit in the frustration, or we sit in the challenge that we face, whatever that challenge may be.

I also want to quote Mark. Mark says this all the time: pick your pain. There's another saying that says when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change, that's when you'll make a decision to move, to make a change in your life. Jesus said something about this, too. In John 16:33, he says, "In this world you will have trouble." But the interesting thing is right before that part of that passage, it says, "I've told you these things so you will have peace." And then he says, "In this world you will have trouble." And of course he follows up with, "But don't worry, I've overcome the world."

But when you are dealing with some struggles, whether it is estrangement, betrayal, an addiction, or that nagging argument that you keep having over and over again with your loved one. Whatever it is, the big fat lie is that time alone will heal your wounds, that it'll just go away, and if you just bide your time, you'll wake up one day and you're just going to feel better. Wouldn't that be great?

In fact, the opposite is true. The longer we live with untreated wounds, unresolved conflicts, or unexplained pain, the greater the potential for the infection to spread. We want to believe that we just need time, but what we need is time well spent. How you mark your time can be the most powerful healing choice that you can make.

How will you spend your time? Will you spend it alone and hurting, not asking for help? If you do, there's not much chance that anything's going to change. But you might just make it worse because you'll isolate and not talk about it and that wound gets deeper. God wants you to experience freedom and he wants you to experience healing.

The psalmist says, "I weep with grief, my heart is heavy with sorrow." That's from Psalm 119:28. He wasn't just crying. He was cleansing his past and healing his future, and he was letting go of what was and what might have been. Healing is a choice. It's God's choice, but we can make choices that allow the healing he has for us to be seen in our life. Now, you may recognize that phrase, "healing is a choice." It's one of our upcoming courses. Maybe there's a lie that you're believing, that all I need is time, or all I need is one little simple thing and it'll all just magically be healed.

But what I can tell you for sure after doing this for so many years, you need connection. You need redemptive relationships. You need a plan, and you need a space to really look into how I need to move forward. And we can help you with that. It's a perfect cue up, Brian, for our Healing is a Choice course that's going to start in a couple weeks.

Brian Perez: It starts the first week of May. You can find out all about it at newlife.com. It's 12 weeks, one hour per week. Imagine investing just an hour a week of your time for the next 12 weeks and experiencing healing like you never have before. More details at newlife.com. Robert, coming up.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: Not only do we give new life to people, we give new life to social media. That's right. We are now on TikTok. Just search @newlifeministries to connect. It's just another way we're trying to meet people right where they are with truth, hope, and biblical wisdom. It's a great place to catch short moments from the show or the full show to share with someone who might need encouragement. Again, search @newlifeministries on TikTok or click the TikTok icon in the footer of newlife.com. I thought it was just about dancing cats and stuff, but not anymore. We are taking TikTok back. Let's go to the phones now. Here is Robert in Los Angeles who's listening on newlife.com. Robert called 1-800-229-3000 and so can you. Hey, Robert. Welcome to the show.

Robert: Good afternoon. Thank you.

Brian Perez: You're welcome. How can we help you?

Robert: My situation is this. My 25-year-old daughter recently moved back home with me because she was unable to maintain employment due to bipolar disorder. I'm just asking for some guidance because right now it's getting difficult around the house. She's been looking for a position, but apparently from the interviews, which have only been online thus far, it appears that when the physicians or whoever she speaks to finds out about her past history, lack of unemployment, or short time of employment, they steer away from her.

Mark Cameron: She has bipolar disorder, Robert. That's what you said, correct?

Robert: Yes, sir.

Mark Cameron: And how long she been struggling with this? Usually it comes on in late teenage years or early twenties.

Robert: Late teenage years, exactly.

Mark Cameron: This is a difficult situation and I can understand from an employee's perspective when you are considering candidates if somebody has gaps in their employment history, they may not be the person that you want to take a risk on. So yes, that is deflating. How are you helping and how's she managing that?

Robert: I'm helping her to provide a place to live for her and her two dogs. Recently her student loans were deferred and I've been recently starting to pay for her student loans.

Becky Brown: Robert, is she medicated? What has her care been like for her bipolar disorder?

Robert: She's on Vraylar, lamotrigine, and something else, but those are the two primary medications.

Becky Brown: When she tells you that she's been denied these upcoming jobs, is that just her report? She says they see my gaps. I'm not questioning that that may be happening, but I'm just wondering if she's able to work at this point. She may need a little bit of a break, kind of get back on her feet, so to speak. What kind of work does she do? I have a million questions for her, but Robert, you're calling, so I want to also know how we support you the best way possible. What do you need that would be helpful?

Robert: I need advice on how do I talk to her. I can have her in just five seconds breaking down and crying if I bring up money or if I bring up the fact that her degree's as a physician assistant. She's very bright, and apparently there's a tremendous sleep disorder involved. Even the second job, she missed the very first day on the job because she overslept. She missed the fourth day on the job and she overslept and they had to let her go. This was when she lived in another state. She's been working part-time jobs and so on just to pay the bills to stay out of the state for a while because all the loans were deferred. But now that the financial end of it got to the point where the decision was made—it was my decision—you need to move back home, move in with me, so I've been taking care of 100% of any of the expenses. She'll be 26 soon, so she'll drop off of my employer's healthcare plan.

Becky Brown: Sometimes the medication can make people very sleepy. I don't know if she's had that adjusted. This isn't a problem that's going to be solved real quick, but I hear the urgency because of the financial part of it. But I also hear that if you start to ask her about this, it probably overwhelms her and that's where the tears or the arguing or whatever the response may be come from.

I would probably start with, "Daughter, I know this is a lot and I'm glad that you made the decision to come home. Let's set up a time where we can talk about what works for the plan to move forward." If we're trying to solve it in the moment, let's say she oversleeps and you get into a conversation about that, or if she's reporting about not being able to get a job, there's tension along the lines and we want to create a space where we can take care of each other.

Robert: I understand. That makes good sense. Set up a time and say, "Look, we're going to dedicate a few minutes. We're going to come into a calm, rational, try to keep our emotions in check and discuss real issues."

Becky Brown: Right, because you don't want to be the problem, Robert. It's very easy for you, even though you're helping her, it can shift in her mind that if Dad wouldn't ask me or if he would just leave me alone. But at the same time with bipolar disorder, you've got to be real careful because she's sleeping too much. There's just so many nuances with the disorder, disease, that it just impacts people so many different ways.

Mark Cameron: I'm sure this is difficult and challenging for you in many other ways too, Robert. But what I'm hearing so far is that your daughter is very smart, she's willing to be on medication, and she's willing to pursue and try and get employment here. So I'm with Becky here in the sense that she needs probably support and understanding and you need support and understanding. It's hard to be on the other end. You are a caregiver in this situation and caregiver burnout is real.

Learning to have that conversation, learning when she gets overwhelmed to recognize—bipolar disorder is a chemical imbalance in the brain. She doesn't choose to have these highs or these lows and so it's difficult to have to manage your mood when it feels so extreme on the inside. Being able to empathize with her and be that support that can help calm her down in those moments, especially in the position that you have as her dad. It can be more difficult if you are a spouse if things seem unbalanced in a relationship, but you're her dad.

So learning how to empathize with her when she's in that moment, maybe even ask her when she's not in that moment, "When you get overwhelmed, what would be the most helpful thing that I could do in those moments?" If you ask her that, you might get a little bit of insight and she may just say something along the lines of, "Just hold my hand and sit with me." And maybe that's what you do and then she calms down, or give me a hug. You can't solve a problem with someone before they are soothed. So a way that you want to remember that is soothe before you solve. Someone told me that phrase a long time ago and it's very good.

If she's not in individual therapy, she may need to be in individual therapy just to process these big emotions that she's having. It may be helpful for you to get into individual therapy so that you have other people who are come alongside you and support you and you have a place to go and express the struggles that you're dealing with and somebody who can maybe also teach you some skills.

Becky Brown: You're so smart, Mark. I actually wrote a book with Steve on this, Understanding and Loving a Person with Bipolar Disorder. You mentioned a very important thing that Robert, you have to take care of yourself. The other thing about this is that she may need to look for part-time employment. She's looking for full-time?

Robert: She's looking for full-time.

Becky Brown: See, all or nothing may not work in this case. Yes, she does need to support herself and it didn't work before. Her brain is overwhelmed right now and so part-time could give her a little bit of stability, a little bit of that connection in the field of study that she's worked so hard to achieve.

And then as she gets some space in there—I know that there's such a need for people in the medical care area that her services are needed. If the audience is thinking, "Yeah, but if she's got bipolar disorder," listen, there's a lot of people that have bipolar disorder and they are high functioning and they're very intelligent, talented people, and their brains work a little bit differently. And so we have to accommodate for that. If she's not with a therapist, definitely that has to be part of her plan.

Robert: Is this an issue that you really want to bring out in a job interview, whether it's the first interview or a follow-up interview, that you deal with bipolar?

Becky Brown: I wouldn't put that in the first sentence, for sure. There's a lot of people that have medical issues that they don't bring into an interview. Right now, she is overwhelmed with her circumstances. This is not what she thought was going to happen. And the sense of defeat that she's experiencing right now after going through all that schooling and now I'm back at home, this is not what I thought. That's part of the challenge that she has to overcome. But it's possible. It's absolutely possible. As far as talking to an employer about it, I think the only time you talk about it is if you're having a bad day and you can't go into work, that's when you start talking about it.

Mark Cameron: Obviously our health information is protected and there's certain things that employers can't ask in an interview. But if you need to explain gaps or why you was let go for a job, you don't have to give all of the information. You can still be truthful by saying something along the lines of, "I started a new medication," or, "I was on medication that week and that medication made me very sleepy and I slept through the first couple days within the first week." Especially given the field that she's in, she sees people and she prescribes medications. That would make a lot of sense to a physician who's looking to hire a PA. I think you don't have to conceal, but think about what is enough information that I can give that explains what is going on. It's not that she's doing this on purpose. That's happened to all of us before that our alarm hasn't gone off and we slept through something, and she's dealing with something challenging here.

Becky Brown: And then she feels shame because of it, too. Robert, maybe she needs to apply at a psychiatrist's office or at a mental health institution, a treatment center, because they know. It might be a good supportive environment for her to work in as well.

Robert: That's a good, very good point.

Brian Perez: Robert, thanks for calling into New Life LIVE today at 1-800-229-3000. You guys mentioned that bipolar is a chemical imbalance and Mark, you mentioned that it can be diagnosed what, late teens to early twenties? So if someone's listening right now and maybe they're thinking, "Wow, my kid's in junior high right now. They're in high school. What are the chances that they might get it, that they might have it?" Is there a way to know ahead of time, is there a way to prevent it?

Mark Cameron: The answer is usually late teens, early twenties. It's difficult to diagnose in teenage years because we know during the teenage years, there's a lot of brain changes and there's a lot of mood changes. There is a child disorder that often is diagnosed in teenage years that then commonly later on can result in a diagnosis of bipolar disorder. But I would say work with a physician if you're concerned about your child and extreme moods that are going on.

Becky Brown: Some people may even be wondering what does that mean, what does bipolar mean? It's just that rhythm that people have where they may stay up for days on end. That's the manic or the mania part of it. Or you may be in bed for days on end after a cycle like that. And then sometimes it's different than that. One of the things that we know for sure about bipolar is it's not the same over and over. But it is where it interrupts your daily life. If you're not able to function, whether it be because you're going way too fast or you can't move at all, there is a lot of help. If you have a family history of it, that's something to pay attention to. But there is help and we know a lot more now. It's not just take a drug and sleep your life away, it's really trying to figure out what works best for you and there's lots of great mental health care workers that can help with that.

Brian Perez: Yep, and we want to help you today for the next two hours on New Life LIVE. Call in to 1-800-229-3000.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: A new episode of the Every Man's Battle podcast dropped today where J.J. West and Doug Barnes explain why you cannot do sexual integrity recovery alone and why behavior change without heart change eventually fails. Find today's episode at newlife.com, on our YouTube channel or app, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The podcast offers excellent content, but it is not a replacement for getting the real help and a clear path forward that the Every Man's Battle workshop offers. If you're realizing, "I'm not the man I want to be," if you're trying to change but something deeper keeps pulling you back, you're not weak, you're stuck in a pattern you were never meant to fight alone. Join us this weekend. Starts Friday. The Every Man's Battle workshop. Spots are limited and this workshop will fill. So get all the details at newlife.com.

1-800-229-3000 is the number to call in to the studio today. And another way you can get your question to us is to email us or leave us a voicemail and you can get information on that at newlife.com/radio. Here's a question that was submitted online. It's from Sandra in Wellesley, Massachusetts.

The question is: "Should I tell my adult son he is giving the appearance of evil? Shortly after my son's divorce, he retired and bought a motorhome with his savings for traveling around the country. To make a long story short, he met a woman 20 years younger than he is who claims to be a minister traveling the country with her children. They sleep in the same camper which to me is the appearance of evil, even if they're not fornicating. I'm not sure whether I should say something or just keep praying. Would you let me know your thoughts? It's making me so sick, I feel so dishonest." Mark, what do you say to Sandra?

Mark Cameron: We all hold a role in one another's lives and that role can be different. Sometimes we have a stronger connection with someone and we have more influence and other times we don't. This is a mother-son relationship and so I would hope that there's strong connection there between them. If you have that relationship with him where that holds some influence, I think it's okay to talk about something that you're concerned about.

That's how I would phrase it. "I'm concerned." Talk about your emotions. "I'm concerned for you. I love you, I care about you." So I would start with affirming the relationship. "This is what I see and this is why it concerns me." And then show some curiosity. "Can you help me understand your decision around this? Because I am struggling." When you approach something in that way, you're more likely to open up a conversation than if you go in with your finger pointing and telling someone that they're wrong and they shouldn't be doing this. If you do that, you're more likely to elicit defensiveness and then the person is not going to want to open up to you.

He is an adult at this point. There does sound like there are some legitimate concerns, but what you want to do is you want to try and maintain that role of influence in whatever way possible in his life and also learning to accept that sometimes people are going to make decisions that we disagree with. All we can do at that point is just try and stand by and maintain a role in their life so that if things come crashing down, then we can continue to be a support to them.

Becky Brown: Mark, you just said, "Sometimes people make decisions that we don't agree with." I would take the word "sometimes" out. People do what they're going to do. Because he's traveling so much, Sandra, here's the thing. Your contact with him is going to be limited. You're probably going to be texting or maybe a phone call a week or something.

What I would do is get real curious about the ministry. And I would, if he knows that you're a follower of Jesus, say, "Tell me about the ministry. What do you guys do?" And you could even slip in there, "Well, what do they say about you not being married? Does anybody care about that?" It's not condemning, it's literally just curious because that is a tenet of our faith. So just to take that curiosity in and then like Mark said, just continue to pour into them from a standpoint—you're not parenting anymore, you know that. I think the feelings that you're having about the situation, take them to the Lord and ask the Lord, "Show me, Lord, how do I love them? How do I show you to them without being condemning?" I wish there was a really fast, easy way to resolve this, but there is not, Sandra, because like Mark said, even though he said "sometimes," people do what they're going to do and you don't always get to pick. So I'm sorry for your mom heart that's hurting right now, and we'll pray for your son, too.

Brian Perez: Mark and Becky, where do you guys learn to ask these questions instead of jumping right in with, "How dare you do this?" Like you said earlier, "soothe before solve." I love that. Because instead of just jumping right in and confronting someone, you've learned and you try to teach others like here on New Life LIVE to just go the easy route, don't right away just jump on them.

Mark Cameron: In the same sense that we want to soothe someone else before we solve, we have to soothe ourselves, too, before we try and solve and address a situation. Typically we just follow programming that we've had in life. How did our parents manage their stress? How did they manage problems? And if they were dysregulated, if they did it in unproductive ways, we will learn that. So in adulthood, we're all challenged to say, "If I don't know how to soothe well, how can I face that and learn to soothe?" Becky used the great point earlier when she said it's only until the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of growth, that's typically where we change.

Brian Perez: All right. This is New Life LIVE. We're going to be in the studio for the rest of this hour and all of next, so call in. If you have a marriage or family question, we've got Mark Cameron here, we've got Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor Becky Brown. Call in to 1-800-229-3000. We'll be right back. Shirley, you're next.

Becky Brown: Hello, it's Becky Brown. I am so excited to launch our 99 For The 1 partner initiative. Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression—all kinds of ways. It reminds us of the story in Luke 15 where the shepherd leaves the 99 to go rescue the one. We've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 For The 1 is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, that's 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/9941.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: So let's go to the phones now. Shirley in Allentown, Pennsylvania listening on WBYN. She called 1-800-229-3000 and so can you. Hey, Shirley. How can we help you today?

Shirley: I was calling because I'm kind of at my wit's end. I'm in a marriage that has failed, but I'm still in it because I don't believe in divorce. But it's just getting progressively worse. My husband is a malignant narcissist. For the longest time, for years, I thought I was losing my mind until I found out what he was. Now I'm just dealing with it day by day. There are days that he acts normal, and then there are days that he's very aggressive. He has no empathy. It's hard to explain the rollercoaster ride that I've been on for all of these years. Everybody's left. My kids are gone. Nobody wants to have anything to do with him. Nobody wants to be around because of how he is. That includes his kids too. This is my second marriage. He has two kids, and so do I. No one really wants to be around us. Nobody comes over to visit because of him.

Mark Cameron: When did this start, Shirley?

Shirley: It started almost from the very beginning. It was what they call love bombing. It was something that I needed. My self-esteem was very low and I think that's one of the reasons that I was sought out. I felt in the beginning very loved, but that ended very quickly. There were things that were done and said as far as other women and that I couldn't question. I wasn't supposed to question that. I just was in a place where I was like, "Oh, I don't know what to do now. I don't know what to do. I have to stick this out. I can't get a divorce. I have to stick this out and I have to deal with it." So we went to counseling, we went to Christian counseling. They told him he needed individual counseling and he stopped going.

Mark Cameron: And did you continue to go?

Shirley: No, because I went on my own. I went to counseling on my own, but he quit going because they told him he needed counseling. He was bringing me to be fixed, but they told him he needed to be fixed, so he quit going. No couples, no individual.

Becky Brown: Shirley, you mentioned that you were doing everything you could to cope. What does that mean for you?

Shirley: That means trying to sit and have conversations with him early on. Early on in the marriage, I would sit and talk to him about the consequences of bad behaviors and how it would end the marriage in the long run if we don't change these behaviors. He would seem to acknowledge them for a minute. He would be sad and, "Oh, I'm really sorry," but go back to the same things that he was doing before.

Becky Brown: Well, what I mean, though, is you've identified the problem. You've talked about all the work. I'm talking about your own self-care. Shirley, what are you doing for you as you're coping with this? And then one other question is, are you thinking of divorcing him?

Shirley: Yes. Right now, I have kind of gotten to a place where I'm trying to take care of myself and find my own peace. I'm in church. I do outreach ministries. I'm getting ready now to do some other things with the more elderly people and going into their homes and doing things. It helps me to give back, to feel better about myself.

Becky Brown: But Shirley, it sounds to me like you are a caregiver. That's just part of who you are. And what you need at this point is you need to receive some care so that you can get back to yourself so that whatever decision you make going forward, it won't be in reaction to what he does or doesn't do.

This happens a lot to women where you feel stuck and you continue to give out to other people. I would love for you to have a therapist that you can process this and become healed as you continue to make decisions for your life. I also think it would be very powerful for you to have a group of women around you. We have life recovery groups, we have all kinds of ways for you to get connected with other people who are working on the parts of their lives that they want to have healed and whole. You found out that you can't fix him. And I don't mean that he's not fixable, I mean that you don't have the power to do that. And then if your goal is to continue to serve, which is fine, I love serving, I think it's great, but it's not helping you heal so that when you make a decision, whatever decision you make, to stay or go, it is not coming from a place where I'm doing this in reaction.

Mark Cameron: Shirley, here is what I would say before you make the decision to divorce. Number one, I would begin with the end in mind. I would take some time to think about and write down to you what does a healthy marriage look like. What does your marriage look like if it was very healthy? What are the behaviors that you would see? Oftentimes people get fixated on what they don't want to see, what the other person is doing, and they criticize and they complain and they condemn.

What I'd like you to do is just think about what you want. And then try and make a list about that. What does that look like? It looks like when we get upset, we come to one another and we initiate a conversation, we invite the other one into the conversation. We speak in a way that is non-blaming. We take turns to listen and hear one another out, to explore one another's perspectives.

So I would think about what you want rather than what you don't want. And make sure that it's a list that you can hold yourself accountable to, too. So that way when you present it to him, you say, "This is what I want our marriage to look like and this is what I'm willing to do also, and I'm going to invite you to do the same with me." And then you may say, "And I'd also like to try couples counseling again to have someone help us do this." And then you might invite him to do the same. You might say, "You write down what you think a healthy marriage looks like and a list that you think two people should do in the marriage that you can hold yourself accountable to." And if you can both do that, you might find that there's a lot of overlap there. And then you see if you can go about finding a counselor who can help you with those things.

So that's how I would start this. And if you haven't read the book How We Love before, I recommend reading that book. It talks about attachment styles and core patterns, what happens when two different attachment styles get into a relationship. It creates a predictable pattern. And Milan and Kay Yerkovich, who wrote the book, outline a process called the comfort circle, which is this listener-speaker role where you take turns to understand what it is the other person is feeling, not just perceiving. And then you ask a historical question of, "Did you feel those feelings as a child?" And you explore one another's history. And as you do that, you gain compassion and understanding for why a person is the way that they are. And it doesn't mean that you stay that way, but in doing the comfort circle, you recondition and you learn how do we bond in a healthy and secure way. So that's where I'd start.

Becky Brown: Mark, even to that point, when someone is designated a narcissist—and I know that word gets used quite a bit for things that may not be; they may have narcissistic tendencies—it is from a wound. It starts somewhere where that pain is.

Shirley, you could join us, I know this is an extreme thing, but you guys could come to our Intimacy in Marriage intensive in D.C. in July. I always tell people do everything you can to save it before you go through divorce because divorce is hard, too. It's all hard. But we can learn through the process. I love what you just said, Mark. A lot of times when we first got together as a couple, we loved each other. we liked to be with each other. And then something goes haywire and it's usually the history. It's usually what we brought into the marriage. That's what Mark's talking about.

Mark Cameron: The last thought that I would say is consider that he may be struggling with depression if he's normal sometimes and then aggressive and mean other times. He could be struggling with depression. It doesn't justify his meanness, but it gives you understanding.

Brian Perez: Shirley, thanks for calling into today to New Life LIVE. Call us today at 1-800-229-3000. Monica, we'll talk to you when we return.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life LIVE.

Brian Perez: Back to the phones. Raleigh, North Carolina is where we're going next. Here is Monica. Hi, Monica. How can we help you?

Monica: Hello. I have a dilemma in my family. I have a son by a previous marriage. My husband and I have another son. They are 43 and 37. They each have two children apiece. My oldest son is not financially responsible. My youngest is extremely responsible and pretty well off. My dilemma is my oldest can't afford daycare, so they have asked me to watch the children. One is in elementary school, one is preschool. My youngest son is very upset at me, and so is my husband, because it's taking away time from being able to spend with their children also. My other dilemma is as a Christian, the oldest son's children are not getting the Christian influence they need, and I feel it's my responsibility to see to make sure they get that from me as a grandparent. Help me out. My husband is just beside himself, and I don't know where to go or exactly how to do this.

Becky Brown: What does he say to you, Monica?

Monica: He tells me I need to say no. But if I say no, my son would have to quit his job to stay at home. And he has another issue—he is extremely obese and he is limited to the type of work he can do and my husband doesn't understand that at all. There is no compromise there.

Becky Brown: Is your son married?

Monica: He's married. His wife has a very good job and she's a very stable spouse. They don't make the best decisions, either, are not financially responsible. They both drink. They are not good influences to my grandchildren.

Becky Brown: So what you just described is a better picture of this, Monica, in that it's not just you taking care of them versus taking care of your other grandkids. The family has a problem. There's levels of problems there. And while it's honorable for you to do what you're doing, I have a sense that there's part of you that feels like this is a sinking ship and you're doing everything you can to bail out the water. Is that right?

Monica: That's exactly right.

Becky Brown: Yeah. And the feelings that your husband has and your other son is the frustration that comes when you have somebody in your life that doesn't take responsibility for their life. And they're thinking that you are taking too much responsibility. Because the simple answer would be you could pay for somebody to watch them on the days that you watch the other kids. But this is a bigger issue with the way that they're spending their money and then the risk that you have of trying to fix something that I don't know that is yours to fix. Do you ever have the family all together?

Monica: It happened at Easter, but that was the first time in a good while.

Becky Brown: And how did that go?

Monica: The two sons didn't talk. The younger son is very cold to me and almost all communication has been cut off.

Mark Cameron: Your youngest son is cutting you off because he's upset at how much help you're giving to his brother?

Monica: Yes, because he says I am enabling him. But financially, they are not able to do what this child needs until she starts first grade, which is this summer. She'll start first grade and then I won't be keeping her as much.

Mark Cameron: Listen, I think Becky has described the situation quite accurately. It's a sinking ship and you're bailing them out and they're not really doing what they should do. Here's the tragic part of it, though. The kids who are involved in this, it is not those kids' fault. Those children need to be helped in some way. But you don't want to keep enabling the behaviors of your son and his wife.

Generally, I think about it this way. If somebody wants me to help them out, I want to come alongside them rather than go in front of them and clearing the way. So what I would say to someone is you move, I move. You step forward, I step forward next to you. You step forward, I step forward next to you. So I can help you out here if I see you making efforts here. And really the efforts are to grow so that they don't need your help anymore. So I would outline a plan like that.

Now, it's difficult because your husband is upset at you and your oldest son is upset at you, and sometimes we have to live in this tension. But if they can see that you are shifting to a different behavior, there's an outcome in mind, there's a plan in mind. You're not just going to completely drop off and you're out of there. They may be more supportive of you, or they may become more supportive of you as they see that you're willing to hold boundaries that way. But that's what I would do. And then that way, if your oldest son, things start to fall apart because he's not doing his part in the deal, it's not your fault. It's his fault. And we said it twice already, so I hesitate to say it again, but only when the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of changing do people make that shift.

Becky Brown: I'm going to quote you one more time, though, Mark. I would say, Monica, that you need to soothe your younger son. He's missing you. That's where all of these feelings are coming up and he's feeling like his kids aren't getting all of you and it's hard as a grandma. But you love all of them. What I would also want for you is to not have the older son's situation define your family. You said he's extremely overweight, they both are drinking. That's addiction. They're using food and drink to do whatever they need to do. I want you to lean towards the younger son and connect, because that is also defining that role that you have that you can have an impact, but you can't fix, you can't save them. I would say to your son, "I need you to help here. I just observe that I'm working a lot harder at this than you might be." And it's hard, but we're praying for your family. It's just a tough situation, Monica.

Brian Perez: Thanks for calling in today, Monica. 1-800-229-3000 is the number she called and you can call it too, because we're going to be in the studio for another hour and we would love to help you with whatever it is that you're going through. And everyone that we help at New Life is because of financial contributions that you make to this ministry, isn't it, Becky?

Becky Brown: Yes, it is. It's sustaining hope for people who are calling in. You just heard some of our callers today and these are unscripted calls. People who have concerns on their hearts for their family, for themselves, and they're reaching out for godly counsel. There's not a whole lot of places that have been doing this as long as we have helping so many people. We want you to participate in what God's doing through New Life. Join it today.

Guest (Male): Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.