New Life LIVE

New Life: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God’s word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let’s go to today’s episode.

Brian Perez: Welcome to New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and this is the show where you can ask us the questions you can’t ask anywhere or seemingly anyone else. We are live and ready to talk with no judgment, just practical help. Call us at 1-800-229-3000 anytime during the next two hours. That’s how long we'll be in the studio today answering your questions.

We've got clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard and licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West. He's also a presenter at our Every Man's Battle and Intimacy in Marriage Intensives. JJ, why don't you tell us what’s on your mind to start us off?

JJ West: It’s great to be on as always, Brian. So good to see you. What’s on my mind is this weekend my wife and I drove up to Tallahassee, which is where I went to college, to spend some time with old friends that we haven't seen in many years. It was wonderful to see them. As people do with old friends, you pick up right where you left off. It was so enjoyable to be with them.

But it also took some work and some planning. I travel quite a bit with New Life. I’m constantly going to some workshop somewhere, and the weekends when I’m not traveling for work, I kind of like to just stay home and rest and do things around the house that need to get done that didn't get done during the weekends that I was traveling. So it took some coordination and effort, but it was well worth the effort.

It got me thinking about how often that’s the case with our friendships and with our relationships. We have to be willing to put in effort. We have to be willing to make some sacrifices. We have to be willing to even be uncomfortable or it may cost us some things in order to maintain and even improve those relationships.

If we don't, if we're constantly wanting people to come to us, care for us, serve us, and let them be the ones who are responsible for maintaining contact, then the relationship tends to die out. So it’s so important that we're putting in the effort. Now, I don't want to blame the victim because there are sometimes cases where people are abandoned by their friends. There are certainly cases where relationships are broken on the other end.

But if on the whole, you feel really lonely and really isolated, and you don't feel like you have the important people in your life who are caring for you, looking out for you, asking you how you're doing, and spending time with you, I want to ask you to challenge yourself. Am I putting forth the effort? Am I making those sacrifices and being intentional, or am I waiting for others to come to me? Am I waiting for others to reach out to me? One of the primary places we do this certainly is in our church communities, our faith communities, whether that’s a local church situation or it may be in something like a New Life group that you're a part of. Are you making the effort to reach beyond just your comfort circle and what you typically spend time on? It’s a challenge for all of us, but that’s how our relationships continue to grow.

Jill Hubbard: I just love the topic of relationships and so often we look at what’s wrong out there and in the other, and we need to look at ourselves. I love it, JJ.

Brian Perez: Reach out, make some friends, say hi to someone, and compliment them on their shoes or something. Unless you don't like their shoes, then don't compliment them. No, I'm joking. Give us a call. We're going to be in the studio for the next two hours, 1-800-229-3000. If you're watching us online, thanks for watching. You can call in too. Don't just see what we're doing, but you can participate at 1-800-229-3000. Tell your friends about us. We're going to be here and talking to you. One call could change everything for you.

The Freedom from Fear and Anxiety webinar is tonight at seven o’clock Central Time, just in time for Tax Day tomorrow. Take 90 minutes to learn how to break free from crippling fear and anxiety. I hear that nervous laughter coming from these two. Now, if this is somehow the first time you're hearing about this, you can register up until 6:00 p.m. Central Time tonight. It also comes with a playback link that’s good for a week to watch at your convenience if you can't join live or just want to watch again. You can get all the details at newlife.com or text the word "webinar" to 28950. We'll text you back a registration link and a free tip sheet on the topic of fear and anxiety. 1-800-229-3000, that’s the number to call.

Here is Josie in Morro Bay, California, who listens to us on newlife.com. Josie is a 99 for the One partner. Thank you, Josie, for calling in to New Life Live. How can we help you?

Josie: Thank you all for being there. I was introduced back in the 80s with Minirth-Meier and went to all the Monday Night Solutions that were at Addison and went to all the Henry and John’s seminars, whether it was Queen Mary or just a church. I’ve just been so blessed by your ministry. I've read all the books. My situation is God doesn't give us more than we can handle, but it’s been tough lately.

I have three amazing grown children. I lost my husband at 45 and was left with a 12, 14, and 19-year-old suddenly. He was in the hospital with Henry and John. Anyway, the question is my daughter is 45 and her husband is 45. He’s kind of been a taken-care-of husband because my daughter was an international CEO flying from China to Europe. Her body broke down since 2020. Neither she nor he has worked.

Fast forward, everything expires, disability he can't get for all his conditions, so major medical issues. I’m an empath and I understand there are major medical issues, so I supported as the Lord led me. They were told they would never have children. Two and a half years ago, she found out at four months of pregnancy that a little guy was on his way. Because they were all vaccinated and boosted and all that, I believe as an educator that the little guy’s got autism. They don't want to recognize it. So, how do I detach yet support? If I don't give them my brother’s some money to have them down there, they want to demand my house up north. I don't have the green light from the Lord. I’m so sorry, I could talk for hours, but I’ll let you shoot.

Brian Perez: Josie, how old is everybody now? How old is your daughter?

Josie: Forty-five now.

Brian Perez: And how old is your grandson?

Josie: Two and a half.

Brian Perez: And they haven't worked and are demanding everyone take care of them. Is that the situation?

Josie: They're very gracious and they're very generous because most of the time it’s difficult for them to get out of bed because of their medical issues.

Brian Perez: Husband also has medical issues? Is that why he never worked?

Josie: Major. He had a spinal issue. No, he didn't have medical issues, he just came from a Christian church where he was abused by the junior high pastor. His mother had major mental issues and his father, an elder in the church, left them, and the guy takes care of the mother and she’s suicidal. So he’s all messed up, but he’s brilliant, but he’s never launched. I tell him, you don't work, you don't eat. Then you fast forward, he gets all these crazy things. I know there are many other callers that you need to hear from, so you just shoot. I know the Lord’s going to give you something that I can grab ahold of because I’ve tried everything. My daughter’s a clinical psychologist and my son’s an attorney. We're all just stupefied.

Jill Hubbard: You can’t solve their problems. They're too big and they're too many. You can’t do it. That’s hard as a mom because when your kids are struggling, I don't care what age they are, we're just wired to want to jump in and help. It’s frustrating because if nothing helps, but that’s your indication. If what you’ve done isn't helping, and you know this from the John and Henry stuff, then it’s not helping.

That’s how you know what to stop. You help people in the areas that they can’t help themselves, but you do not help people in the areas where they need to do for themselves, even under dire circumstances. You can’t put your standards onto other people. A lot of times we think, well, I would never live this way. Okay, but other people just might, and you have to kind of let them, even if they're your kid. You have to let them live the way they choose to live.

JJ West: That’s so hard, Jill. It’s really hard. Josie, I have a question. What happens when you tell them no?

Josie: Oh, I use no a lot. You don't understand, I'm very strong.

JJ West: And what happens when you tell them no? Then what happens?

Josie: They back off.

JJ West: Okay, so they respect when you set a boundary.

Josie: Oh no, I'm a benevolent dictator. I can assure you I'm very strong. No, I'm telling you all, I'm even telling you no.

JJ West: So help me understand, when you said they want to go after your house up north, what did you mean by that?

Josie: In 2017, my daughter, who had just finished Rosmead clinical psychology, was in New York. I was on my way to Europe and she called. Anyway, my daughter, her goal, even though the doctor said she would never ever work, her goal was to immediately come back to California, take her boards, which she passed with flying colors, and took her first interview. Of course they loved her, she’s incredible. She said, mom, just please come down with me and get me settled.

So, I started playing pickleball, I joined BSF, I do Al-Anon, I do this, I do that. I make a life wherever I am because God uses us and life is short. Fast forward, you got the COVID thing. Oh my gosh, Stanford doctors say no, and they wanted to boost the heck out of her. I said I ain't taking that Chinese bioweapon, there’s no way. So anyway, I’m still here, but I have a beautiful, gorgeous house in Northern California.

I have a friend in need, so she’s trading off taking care of my home and my yard space and my landscape and all that stuff and I'm down here. But my children, that’s their home. That’s where they were raised. I’m talking about my daughter. She says I should just sign the deed over to them.

Brian Perez: That’s what they're telling you?

Josie: Oh yeah. Not sign the deed, but more or less let them live there for free in Northern California.

JJ West: And obviously you're not comfortable with that as an option.

Josie: I get too many calls. My brother then is, we're all fearing their homelessness back before in 2022. So my dear brother offers them the bottom of his house, which is not ideal. They don't have a kitchen, it’s crap.

JJ West: So Josie, okay, just because they're asking for free living at your house in Northern California obviously doesn't mean they get that. If you were comfortable with that arrangement, you could offer that, but just because they're asking for it doesn't mean they get that. And if your brother has offered to let them stay at his place, that’s an arrangement between him and them. That really doesn't need to involve you at all. You don't need to solve if they're having trouble coming up with rent to pay him, if that was the arrangement, or if they're having trouble in terms of following whatever rules he has established.

That’s again between them. That’s not actually something you have to get involved in. That’s not something that you have to solve. As Jill said, their problems are too big for you to solve and they're really not your responsibility. I can hear just in your voice as you're describing it, there’s a lot of anxiety around this. That’s what happens when we start to kind of give more details than are needed, is that I’m feeling overwhelmed by the stress of their life.

I think that Jesus would say, Josie, listen, yes, there’s a lot of stuff that needs to be done, but my call to you is to sit at my feet and listen to me and receive from me and not busy yourself with all of the decisions and consequences that your daughter and son-in-law have made or need to make. There’s a whole lot of energy for you around what’s going on with them and I get it because you love your daughter and you want good for her and you love your grandson and you want good for him. Of course. But when I am so consumed with what’s happening with them that I'm trying to solve their problems, that’s where what Jill talked about, where helping is no longer helpful, it’s hurting.

Jill Hubbard: Right, and just because you have a house doesn't mean you have to give it over. Sometimes giving it leads to your own demise. Sometimes you have to say no. I know people where they have to say no to houseguests because it’s too much and their life and their health suffer. I just imagine them all moving in with you and it completely consuming and taking over your life because it already has. Having that separateness is for your own sanity so that you can help them from a distance. People in these situations sometimes may have to accept living within their means, which might be very meager. But if you let them know, my house at this time is not an option. Just that’s it, broken record. It’s not an option.

Brian Perez: Josie, thanks for calling in today to New Life Live. We have an article on our website, newlife.com. You might have already read it because you say you've read all the things that we have to offer, but the article is called "Helping Without Enabling." We're going to drop a link to it in the show notes there for anyone else who might be in a similar situation as Josie’s. Thank you for calling in today and thanks for being a 99 for the One partner.

Situations can be so complicated. There are so many layers to it. When we're so close to something, it is hard to sort it through. I’m glad she called. You might be in a situation like this or whatever it is that you’ve got going on, we would love to hear from you today at 1-800-229-3000. We're going to be here for two hours and we would love to help you.

Another way that you can help New Life besides your prayers and financial support is to help yourself to our moving sale. I shouldn't say help yourself because that implies everything’s free, but it’s not. However, it’s pretty close to free. Rock-bottom prices on resources to help with spiritual and personal growth, either yours or a loved one’s. Check it out at newlife.com, go to the store, and then click the moving sale banner.

Rachel in Denver, Colorado, you're our next caller. How can we help you today?

Rachel: I have a question about a man who keeps trying to hug me in my small group and I’m not okay with it.

Brian Perez: Is this at church or a home group?

Rachel: It’s a church group. He’s a participant. For some context, I’m the youngest in the group and it’s a group of people in their 70s. He seems to target me and he’s not targeting anybody else, just me.

Jill Hubbard: He is not being appropriate. Is this a lonely guy?

Rachel: He’s married and his wife is very sweet and she and I are friends and it’s uncomfortable.

JJ West: Rachel, you said he’s just a participant in the group, he’s not the leader. Have you spoken with any of the leaders about your uncomfortableness with the way he interacts with you?

Rachel: No, I have not. My husband knows and my husband is willing to talk to him.

JJ West: That would be a great first step, for your husband to talk with him privately and say, listen, we don't know what’s going on for you in these interactions, but the way that you are interacting with my wife, the way that you're hugging her makes her uncomfortable, and we would like you to please stop. Hopefully that takes care of the issue. If he doesn't respond that way, you go to the person, and if they are not responsive, then you bring in one or two others. In this case, I would say then you speak with one of the leaders to say, okay, listen, we spoke with him privately, he hasn't changed his behavior, we need some intervention here.

Rachel: Something I’m concerned about is he tries to hug me, like a frontal hug. I've noticed with men, you typically leave space. If you're going to hug in the front, you leave some space and it’s respectful. He obviously wants to do like the bear hug kind of stuff or whatever that is. The leader, he’ll give me a little side hug and I’m okay with that. But I don't want to be like, well now the one guy can give me a side hug but this guy can’t. He is targeting me at the same time.

Jill Hubbard: I think your husband could start by just trying to be disarming and just let him know that he may not realize, he may not know this, but that with the stronger hugs, it’s feeling uncomfortable for you. Not accusing him of anything at first, just making it a little bit almost like in some ways you taking the blame, Rachel, that you're just uncomfortable with a stronger, more forceful hug. So if this guy gave you a side hug, would you be okay with that?

Rachel: I think so.

Jill Hubbard: Okay, so you could start with that approach and have your husband intervene. He doesn't want to make him feel bad or anything, he just wants him to know that the stronger hugs just are a little too much for her.

JJ West: This is very similar to in the book of Corinthians. Paul was writing to the church and there was an issue where some of the people were still eating food that had been sacrificed to idols and there were newcomers to the church who had just come out of that practice for whom it was hard for them to watch this happening. It felt like it was causing them to be pulled back into their old practices that were not honoring to God.

So Paul says, listen, even if you don't have a problem with eating food that’s been sacrificed to idols, you choose not to, to care for your brother because it’s hurting their heart. So in the same way, even if this guy doesn't realize, even if he doesn't have ulterior motives, even if he’s not somehow acting out in some way with these hugs toward you, even if that’s the case, if it’s causing you to have pain, the loving thing is to say I will not continue to engage in this practice out of respect for you as my sister in Christ.

Jill Hubbard: I really wonder, he’s older than you, do you remind him of someone? Is there something endearing about you, Rachel, that he wants to comfort or something? You might think about those things too. But even if that’s the case, it’s still inappropriate for her to say I'm not comfortable. But it might make sense of it instead of just thinking of him as a creeper.

Brian Perez: When’s the next time that you see him? When’s your next small group meeting?

Rachel: It’s actually tonight.

Brian Perez: Okay, so you're going to be able to put these things into practice tonight. Thanks for calling us today on New Life Live. Try these approaches tonight, and if it doesn't work, call us back tomorrow, or if it does work, call us back tomorrow. We'd love to hear it.

Becky Brown: Hello, it’s Becky Brown. I am so excited to launch our 99 for the One partner initiative. Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways, and it reminds us of the story in Luke 15 where the shepherd leaves the 99 to go rescue the one. You know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the One is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or newlife.com/99for1.

Brian Perez: Let's talk to Shirley in Knoxville, Tennessee, who listens to us on SiriusXM Channel 131. Welcome to New Life Live. Thanks for calling 1-800-229-3000. How can we help you?

Shirley: Well, my question is how does a mother who loves her 25-year-old child, who is mentally ill even though able to function in society, who has financially drained her parents over the last five years because we don't want to see her on the street? She has a conscience and a good heart, but we are so tired and so weary and we haven't been able to draw that boundary of we're done, we love you but we're done because we don't want to see her homeless. She does live two states away. I just need some advice. I turned on the radio 10 minutes ago and heard the last three minutes of that caller that you were kind of on the same topic about two calls back and I thought, oh, I need to hear that. I thought I’d just call in myself.

Jill Hubbard: Shirley, you said your daughter’s mentally ill. Can you tell a little bit more? Does she have a diagnosis?

Shirley: We're talking personality disorder. She does have a conscience, but ODD, intermittent explosive, ADHD from childhood, probably bipolar. Just an alphabet soup with a conscience though, and with a good heart. Loves her family and we love her, but can't seem to sustain any healthy plan and there are red flags everywhere in her life and she doesn't look very hard for green flags or good ones.

JJ West: You said she lives a couple states away. Why does she live a couple states away? Is that for work or is she married?

Shirley: Because somebody invited her a year ago and she went. Another red flag. It was a romantic relationship which is now, of course, not in existence anymore.

JJ West: Does your daughter, is she able to work or is she on disability?

Shirley: She is not. I've talked to counselors and attorneys. She is not disabled. She is not homeless. She has had jobs. The average is about four a year, but she doesn't have any sustainability. Lives with a lot of depression and anxiety to be sure. Has good intentions, it just doesn't sustain it. Sometimes by choice and sometimes probably by one of those other issues.

Jill Hubbard: Shirley, so she’s 25 years old and when you have young adults with a lot of issues like you're telling us, these early adult years are extremely chaotic and I have seen parents in your shoes and it’s beyond exhaustion trying to launch a kid like this. We also know that at 25 her brain is maybe starting to come online, but with all these issues I would look at 26, 27, 28, and so you have that radical impulsivity that just takes her in all directions and it’s quite scary.

I understand you don't want her to be homeless. Sometimes that can’t be helped. Sometimes you have to let her suffer the consequences of these choices she has made because she may not learn them any other way. If she’s truly bipolar and along with some of these other things, medication is an important piece. Not everything can be medicated away, but a consistent medication mood stabilizer can be effective for people. The problem is they don't always want to take it, but I might tie help to that. If you are consistently on medication and we see you following doctors' orders, then we're willing to help you. If not, then it’s basically like throwing money down the drain, so it isn't even wise probably to help her. So I would encourage her to enlist the help of social services around her, things where she can get help, county mental health, things that don't cost you anything but at least can get her a psychiatrist and maybe some therapy so that she can start better taking care of herself. But you may be watching the roller coaster for quite some time.

JJ West: I was thinking right along the same lines. We are well within our right, parenting right, to require a certain response or put limits around our help, our assistance. So especially with adults, our offspring but they're adults now, so she’s 25, so she’s certainly well into adulthood. So you can say things like, okay, we can offer assistance at this level. This is what we can do, but if we're going to do that, we require this from you.

And that’s completely okay. You can say things, I'm just giving as an example, this is not what you should do, but you could say if she were to move back to your town or even back home, if you live with us, we're going to require either this amount of rent or we're requiring these chores to be done or we're requiring this much of your, like Jill was saying, we're requiring you to be in ongoing counseling and following a medication regimen. Whatever, something along those lines.

Jill Hubbard: JJ, I would not advise this adult child moving back with them. I know you weren't suggesting that, but you might take that same idea and say, you know, if you are doing X, Y, and Z, then we will help you toward your rent so that she could be someplace else. Because I think for everyone’s sanity, yeah.

JJ West: Right, but it has to be, Shirley, it has to be for you and your husband to sit down and say, okay, what level of help are we okay doing, okay assisting? Make that clear, this is what we're willing to do as long as you're fulfilling these requirements, but I don't need to go beyond that.

Brian Perez: Shirley, thank you for calling us today here on New Life Live. Our first caller Josie, we told her about an article we have on our website called "Helping Without Enabling." The link is there in the show notes if you're watching us online, but thank you so much for calling us today here on New Life Live. We've got a few minutes left this hour and all of next hour, plenty of time for you to call in.

Terry, you'll be up next. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Let’s talk to Terry in Indianapolis listening on newlife.com. Hi there, Terry. Thanks for calling. How can we help you today?

Terry: Well, I have two adult daughters who are believers who are arguing. Their ages are 40 and 46. It interferes with family gatherings and the older one has tried to reconcile, but the younger one doesn't seem too interested in it. I have a history, my sibling and I are estranged and I told them years ago that I would do everything I could to prevent that from happening to them. And so I’m willing to be a tool for God to use me in their lives. I’m just not sure how much to be involved or how pushy to be. I'm looking for advice.

Jill Hubbard: Terry, since you had something with your sibling, what do you think would have helped you, you and your sibling? If your parents had done what, would it have helped?

Terry: Well, none of them, my parents nor my sibling were followers of Christ. So that would have helped for sure. And I think if my parents had been a little more involved in trying to reconcile things, but they just kind of let things go and I don't know, I guess as a parent, you're always a parent no matter how old your kids get and just being involved in their lives. And I'm not sure. I think if I knew that answer, I probably wouldn't have called you today.

Jill Hubbard: But it is a good thing to think about, to kind of look back and see. Even though you can't name that, there’s a longing there. And so there’s this pull now like that you need to do something, but you don't know what to do. I might start with asking each of your daughters, do you need my help and if so what do you need from me?

Terry: The older one actually, she has come to me and said what do I do? I'm trying to reconcile and nothing’s happening.

Jill Hubbard: Okay, so younger daughter is more of the problem, right? She’s the one that’s digging her heels in. So what is unresolved for youngest daughter? Like what’s the repetition and is there any aspect of their arguing, Terry, that involves you, like their childhood, how she felt being the youngest versus the oldest, how she, her perspective on how she was treated? Like is there anything you need to own and apologize for?

Terry: And those are good questions and when the Lord brings something to my mind, I do go and apologize to them for that. So that’s actually what I think I would like to dig into is to find out why the younger one seems to, she kind of has some anger issues, but I don't know where it stemmed from or I think they've both been a little jealous of each other for different things over the years because their lives are different. But to date, I have not asked the younger one directly what it is that is unresolved for her in her relationship with her older sister.

JJ West: Do you feel comfortable asking that question?

Terry: Yeah, I do. I just have to pick my timing with her. She does listen to me and allows me to talk and we do talk back and forth about issues. So I just wanted to make sure that that was like an okay thing to do.

Jill Hubbard: Oh, absolutely, but I think starting out you should do more of the listening. Don't try to change her mind, convince her otherwise, tell her that it was different. You just want to hear her perspective. So pick a time when you guys have time and you can really listen and I would take notes. I really want to understand what you're struggling with because it seems like we're just in this repetitive pattern of things being unresolved and so there’s something there, sweetheart, that you're needing and it’s part of why you're holding onto your anger because anger is a protest and it’s empowering. So just start by just trying to understand and see what life is like for your youngest through her eyes. And you might clarify, so what you're saying, what I hear you saying is this, this is how you felt, do I have it right? And do that active listening where you get her feedback on if you're hearing it correctly and just let her talk as much as she can talk.

JJ West: And then lean into empathy and compassion to validate what she’s feeling rather than trying to fix it. Now, it may be down the road you have a role in helping to mediate and help fix, but initially after listening, you want to lean into that empathy and compassion so that she feels heard because she’ll be much more open to advice that you might have or interventions you might try to do if she knows that you care and have listened to her and that she feels seen and heard.

Jill Hubbard: And that doesn't mean you have to agree with her version. So validating her is not agreement. It’s just really seeing that that’s how she experienced things and that you can understand how she could feel that way given her take on it.

Terry: I know that people don't meet her expectations, family, so she’s disappointed a lot. I just don't know when that started.

Jill Hubbard: Yeah, it would be great to explore, to remember when she was first disappointed.

JJ West: And it may be something that as a family you guys could all get a copy of Mark’s book "Understanding Your Attachment Style" and read it together to talk about, okay, so how do I see myself and how do I see myself in relation to the rest of the family? And then how do these different styles of relating that we each have interact with one another? That can be a way that you're able to have more healing conversations and earn that secure attachment rather than just continuing to perpetuate the old patterns that have been there for decades.

Jill Hubbard: Right, so Terry, this is not a one and done conversation. It’s being willing to engage with her at a deeper level and kind of journey with her a bit in really hearing her and as you do that then kind of next steps will be revealed.

Brian Perez: Mark Cameron’s book "Understanding Your Attachment Style" is available for purchase in the newlife.com store. Hey, when you give to New Life, your generosity helps restore broken marriages and families, helps people break free from addiction, helps people find strength in the midst of depression and grief, and helps them grow deeper in faith and spiritual help. Your gift helps carry hope to the hurting, meeting real needs with real help right when it matters most. Give online at newlife.com, by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE, or text NLM to 28950. Or you can become a 99 for the One partner with a monthly recurring gift. Get more details at newlife.com/99for1. We'll see you tonight at the Freedom from Fear and Anxiety webinar, starts at seven Central, and we're going to be in the studio for another hour, so keep calling 1-800-229-3000.

New Life: Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more and thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.