New Life LIVE

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's Word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.

Brian Perez: Welcome to another episode of New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez, and we are going to talk to Mike in Pennsylvania in just a moment. First, let me let you know who's in the studio today. We've got licensed marriage and family therapist, Dr. Jackie McHenry, and parenting expert, Dr. Jim Burns. He's the founder of Homeward and he's got a thing or two to say to start us off today. Don't you, Jim?

Jim Burns: I do, but I should probably use my microphone. That's right. We can hear you better. I do. I always laugh that you say parenting expert, and I go, you should talk to my kids. My daughter, Becca, at 17, said, "Dad, all of my friends think you are the coolest dad." And my head got all big and then I made the mistake and said, "Do you think I'm a cool dad?" And she goes, "No, you won't let me do this. You won't let me do that." So, it's all a matter of insight there, Brian, my brother.

I want to talk a little bit about conflict. All of us have conflict. Conflict is actually either healthy or it can be unhealthy. It can go unhealthy really quickly. But 86% of marriages and just relationships that derail oftentimes derail because of conflict and communication. I say all the time here on the show that communication is a learned trait. It was such an aha for me. I want to quote our good friend, Henry Cloud, because I just saw this in something and I just absolutely love it. He said, "I cannot blame them for what I do with what they do to me. I am responsible for how I respond." And I think that's a really good thing.

You can't change somebody. I've tried it. I'll point a finger out at my wife who we've been married for over 50 years, and three fingers are always pointing back at me. As much as I want to try to change her, that's not going to happen. I need to change me. When we think about conflict, I'm going to teach you real quickly what I call the conflict dance. We're going to dance on New Life here.

A conflict dance starts with tension because there's tension in a relationship. By the way, tension is not always bad. We just have tension. We live with people, whether it be our marriage or our kids or whoever. There's friction, problems, pain, misunderstanding. Where we make the mistake on the negative side of the conflict dance is we go toward defensiveness. Defensiveness doesn't work. We always seem to go that way. But you're wrong and I'm right and let me tell you how that is working for you. How's it working for me? It doesn't work well.

So, when we go to defensiveness, we blame, we have anger, we try to control, we attack, we say I language, you language. That's it. If we continue down that road, we go from defensiveness to disconnect. Now we're disconnected. So we're not doing a good conflict dance. We're actually going deeper into this. Now there's emotional withdrawal. I know that. That's what I can do. Avoidance, pouting, or even acting and feeling superior. Again, all of those are things I've done. Maybe you have too.

But then you become detached. There are way too many marriages, way too many relationships with kids, even estranged kids, where there's now just bitterness, resentment, contempt, even loneliness, unresolved issues, fighting, and then frankly, kind of deadness, which results in deeper tension and regret. Let me teach you the positive conflict dance in less than one minute. Number one, you start with tension again because that's what happens.

But instead of going to defensiveness and all those other D words that I used, I think we go to "we." When people have the discipline to move to we, we assume responsibility. We're going to work together. We're not going to blame and shame. That moves us to being connected. That means we're working through conflict and we're connected. It's actually not a win or lose. It's not about winning or losing. It's about a sense of well-being, learning about each other. And you know what the result is? Authentic oneness and feeling more connected. That's what we've got to do. We've got to learn to communicate more effectively.

Dr. Jackie McHenry: You did that in less than 30 seconds. I talked really, really fast. But I love that. I love that too. And I think you said so much in that 30 seconds about what we need to do in order to stay connected and to manage our conflict, work through it. It's never going to be resolved. It's just going to be something but how do we move through it together?

Brian Perez: Mike in Pennsylvania, we'll come to you as soon as we come back from the break here on New Life Live. Hey, you guys, thanks for watching and listening. We'll be back.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: And let's go right to the phones. Talk to Mike in Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania, listening on WBYN. Hey, Mike. Thanks for calling in today to New Life Live. You're on with Dr. Jackie McHenry and Dr. Jim Burns.

Mike: Hi. God bless you. Thank you for having me on the show. I've listened to the show for quite some time and folks call in with their conflicts seeking counsel and advice. I just wanted to propose this option that across many ministries, not just New Life, I made an observation that perhaps folks should repent for starters. I was wondering if you could elaborate on that.

Jim Burns: I love the word repentance, Mike. I'm glad you brought it up. I think that happens sometimes in personal counseling. And I really do. I believe that we should be preaching on it more. Repent simply means you're going in one direction and you turn around and go a different direction, which is the way of God. Obviously, what I think most counseling is kind of all about is repentance. When people lay their burdens and their sins and their problems and what they do, they need to learn to repent.

Let me give you two thoughts on it. One is sometimes in the church, we've probably used the word repent to just go, well, just turn. And sometimes people say, "I don't know how to do that." So, I think you use the word repent, but then you help them, guide them, teach them to move in that direction because, for example, somebody called on another show and they were calling about an abuse, they'd been abused. And what they had were some behaviors that were not healthy or not good.

We didn't use the word repent in that, but what they needed to do was they needed to change their behavior, but we needed to also, I felt, and I was on the podcast with the broadcast on another with another of the counselors. Jackie would have done the same kind of thing. What they did was they guided this person toward learning how to repent. Again, I think it's a great word. I think it's a word we in the church need to continue to use.

I love what Francis Schaeffer said years ago. He said in every generation, the Gospel doesn't change, but the way we communicate it does. I feel like in this generation, we maybe have gotten away too much in the church of not using the word repent because of the things that make comedy. Repent, well, that's good, but we see the hellfire damnation with nothing more to it. And sometimes that doesn't work. So, I think you brought up a good thing and maybe on this broadcast, we'll use the word repent because I'm sure not opposed to it and I know Jackie, you're not either.

Dr. Jackie McHenry: Not at all. I do believe that it's important for us to encourage people to repent. It's simple though, right? Just to say, "Hey, repent," can often leave people stuck. And so you mentioned that you think like the first thing we should do is repent, but the reality is often people don't even realize that they've done something that requires repentance. And so without a deeper understanding, we just continue to repeat the same cycle.

That's why people say they'll never do it again and that was really bad for me and I'll never let that happen again, and yet it happens again because we're not being intentional. So what we try to do is give them the steps to make the turn into a different direction. And so if you think about what we're sharing, are we asking them or helping them to turn in a different direction? Yes. That is repentance.

So I may not say the word repent because I think for me, it's more important that I help people understand how to get from where they are to where they want to be. Actually, in the name of my practice, The Bridge, our tagline is we're here to help you get from where you are to where you want to be. And where you want to be is in a repentant state. And we're going to help you figure out how do I turn from what I'm doing into doing something else. But to just say the word repent is nothing to many people. It doesn't mean anything. It's not an explanation of how. How do I change my life? How do I stop doing this thing I've done for 50 years and be a different person?

Some might say, "Oh, it's simple. Just pray. Just know God. Just there's Scripture for that." And if that has worked for you, beautiful. I praise God for you that that has worked for you. But for the majority of us, that has not worked. We've needed more hands-on help, just like we had to be taught how to read and how to do math. We often have to be taught how to change our lives and that's one of the things that good Christian counseling can help do.

Jim Burns: Yeah, it's true. I remember when I was in youth ministry, I spoke a lot and I would use the word repent because kids needed to understand that. I'd say kind of how's it working for you? Maybe they're smoking pot or they're in bad relationships or they're straying or distancing from God. What they needed was a repentance, but they didn't know what the word meant because we don't use it that much. So I'd say repent, make a turn toward God. What does that look like? So I think we have to learn to play the what you were saying, play the movie forward on how it's going. They don't when they come to counseling, they're like, "Okay, I want to do something different." Or they want somebody else to do it. They want their spouse to do it differently or their kids or whatever. But if they do repentance, I love your illustration of even what your counseling ministry is all about because repentance has to show us the way. And actually, Jesus did that many times. He used the word repent. John the Baptist used the word repent and was part of a baptism and a new life and what not. So yeah, it's a great word and for some people, that's all you need. It's also a word that begins the conversation.

Brian Perez: All right, Mike. Thank you for calling in today to New Life Live. Newlife.com is our website. You can find out more about us there and follow us on social media and find out everything that we've got going on. Also, subscribe to our monthly newsletter. That way you'll always know what's going on here at New Life. We had Dr. John Townsend on the show just a few days ago and if you get our monthly newsletter, you would have known ahead of time that John was going to be on. I'm not trying to guilt you into getting our newsletter and say, well, if you had signed up, you would have known. That's not what I meant, but I'm just saying that you can always find out what's going on here at New Life by signing up for the newsletter. You can also follow us on social media.

So, what is the responsibility of a parent when it comes to social media use? Now, you can send your kid, well, no, there are some articles and things at newlife.com that maybe your kid should not see. But when it comes to social media use, how much of a responsibility we're seeing entire countries that are changing their social media policy right now to suit the dangers that are out there. And do you think that's the best way to go?

Jim Burns: I think it's a part of it. I think we do have to figure this out. The hardest thing that my mom had to do was get me off the landline phone because we had a long cord and she was just frustrated with that. But today, parents, I believe, have to put energy into creating a media-safe home. It's so dangerous. The average boy will see pornography at age 10, the average girl is 11.8. You can Google me on this and see those facts.

As parents, we have to put some energy into asking the question is social media even, is it bringing our family together or taking it apart? So instead of just saying don't do it or allowing them to do anything they want, I think we really need to have a plan and a purpose. Today, there are some really good resources out there. Our own Dr. Alice Benton and Steve Arterburn wrote a book on this that was really, really helpful for me when I read it. I interviewed her on my podcast and I thought it was great.

I think every parent has to create a plan and a purpose and basically one of the things they're going to have to do is help them become responsible with social media so that when they become adults because you're seeing people who had people who say no social media and the kids can't be on any of it. Then they graduate from high school and they go away to school or they go into the service or they go do something and they just go crazy because they didn't know how to do it. The parents have to teach them to learn to discern. You're singing my song. One of Homeward where I work, one of our most popular seminars is called creating a media-safe home. We get more people to come to that than even some of our energizing your family's faith. We'll get more creating a media-safe home because it's such a need.

But I think we're making some mistakes right now. It's the Wild West still and we're allowing our kids to watch too much media. I said on the show the other day, I said that the newest research shows that middle school kids are outside less than prisoners. That's not good. Well, it's because of that. So it's very important, I think, that we as parents take that just as seriously as previous generations. Our parents didn't talk to us about sex and then we find out that the more positive value-centered sex education kids receive from home, the less promiscuous and less confused they'll be. Well, we didn't know that and most of the people in my generation, our parents didn't talk to us about that. Now a newer generation is doing a better job. Now as parents, we have to take that next step and not just talk to our kids, but dialogue with our kids about social media and the use and abuse of what's taking place.

Dr. Jackie McHenry: I think we also have to model healthy social media usage for them. Often, I've seen parents limit their child's screen time meanwhile they're stuck scrolling for hours and the kid gets snapped at because they're interrupting the scrolling. And so as parents, we could do better at letting them see us take a break. And there are less, I'm noticing there are less than there used to be, or at least I'm noticing them less, or hopefully maybe it means I'm on social media less. But I would encounter videos that would say, "Hey, you've been here for a while. You should probably take a break. You should probably go get some water. Don't you need a bathroom break?" And so those were kind of peppered in and so if you were on for too long, this video pops up.

What if we didn't need the video providers to do that for us? What if we provided something like that? And so I was talking with a man not too long ago and he was saying that his teenage son said he really could use some help when it comes to his phone and his social media usage. And the dad was glad that he shared with him, but he didn't know what to do with that information. He didn't want to go too far. He didn't want to minimize it, but he didn't want to make a big deal about it. And I said, "Let's make a big deal about it." He came and said, "Hey, dad, this is a problem for me. I don't really know how to handle it." And I think dad didn't know how to handle it, so he didn't know what to do. And I made the simple suggestion of what if we just all start by not having our phones in the bedroom? Just pick one. Try it out for a couple of weeks. See if your family can actually live with that and see what difference it makes. Try some things, trial and error because as you said, it's the Wild West. We don't know and so we need to try some things and figure out what would be better than just having them have free rein or having it be completely cut off.

Jim Burns: You're so right. I did my opening last time I was here on this and I quoted a guy named Nicholas Kardaras who's kind of the brain expert. He said this may be more dangerous than other addictions because it's we don't have our arms around it. We don't know how this is affecting. We're just learning the amount of depression or the amount of things that take place with kids with this. So we've got a lot of us, even we who are in the mental health world and in ministry, we've got to help our people understand this. So it's a big deal. So parents, there are some great books out there. I tell people always read a parenting book a year. Maybe your parenting book this year is on screen time and things like that because they're out there. They're very helpful. There's some great stuff out there.

Brian Perez: Calling it the Wild Wild West is such a good analogy because there's so much out there and we think of kids who might be getting their sex education from what's online, on social media. I mean, there's always been that, kids are going to talk about whatever. But now they can actually see it very graphically and these kids have access to phones and tablets way too soon. I think do you think there needs to be an age limit? Does it depend on the child?

Dr. Jackie McHenry: I think it depends on the child and the family and the family circumstances.

Brian Perez: All right. We'll be right back here on New Life Live to discuss the issues you want to talk about. Newlife.com is where to go to find out more about us.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Ladies, if sexual betrayal is part of your story, we are so sorry for what you've had to go through. But we've got an online gathering, a virtual gathering coming up in just a few weeks. It's on Saturday, August 1st, goes from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. It's called Rescue: Your First Step Toward Healing. It's led by licensed counselor, Laura Mangin McDonald. This experience combines biblical encouragement, clinical insight, and connection with other women who understand because they've been through it too.

Rescue was created for women who have never taken the first step toward their own healing after betrayal. It's designed to help you find your footing again. After discovering sexual betrayal, pornography, or broken trust in their marriage, many women carry confusion, grief, anxiety, fear, and isolation, and often they're trying to carry it all alone. Imagine spending just a few hours with women who actually understand what you're carrying. If you are hurting today, pay attention to that nudge in your heart. This could be the first step toward healing. You can learn more at newlife.com or by calling us at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Again, this is happening on August 1st. The early bird discount ends on July 17th. We want to help you, so please reach out to us and we can assist you with that.

Here's a question that was submitted online. It is from Mara. She went to newlife.com/radio to send us this email. "How long do I wait for my brother to respond so we can have a better relationship?" Mara says, "I finally stood up to my brother. I've asked him in the past why it's okay to treat me this way but not his own friends. My brother has always been a bully. He and his wife are both alcoholics. I'm usually silent and just obey his aggressive commands to keep peace. While at the latest family gathering, I got up to throw away a paper plate. He yelled at me to sit down. I calmly said, 'I don't like it when you talk to me that way. It's rude.' He threw his arms up and said, 'Well, you're bugging me.' I said, 'I'm done,' and I proceeded to pick up my things and start to leave. He then said, 'Mara, I'm just kidding. I'm sorry.' I then said, 'What do you need from me? What can we do to improve our relationship?' He said, 'I don't know.' I replied, 'Well, when you figure it out, you let me know.' I then left the gathering. I've not heard from him since and it's been almost two weeks. How long do I wait for him to reply? Is it more damaging to our relationship the longer I wait on him? Should I reach out or continue to wait? How do I manage my own anxiety while in the waiting? In the meantime, he did contact my other brother who lives out of town and told him, 'My sister is mad at me.' So I know it's bothering him. I would like a relationship with him, but only with boundaries and respectful interactions going forward." Jackie, what would you suggest for Mara?

Dr. Jackie McHenry: It's tough because now we've already put this thing out there. And I'm a big believer that you've got to stand by what you say. So if you tell a child, "If you don't get an A, we're not going to Disneyland," and they get a B, then you've got to do what you said. Otherwise, your word means nothing. And so now she's set this boundary, "Well, you call me when you're ready," but now the anxiety is getting to her. I think he's not ready.

And so if what you said was true, you wait until he's ready. But I think you didn't expect it to take this long. You thought, well, now I've said it and I've said my piece and he's heard it and now he's going to call back and we're going to have a conversation. But that's because you are viewing the situation through the lens of who you are and how you think and your own mind, and that isn't who he is.

If you think about it from the lens of who he is, the perspective of what you've experienced all the years growing up of him being your brother, he is probably going to wait for you to call and waiting for you to be the one to make the repair because he can't be wrong or bad. He's used to being the one in control. And so you get to decide for yourself what you need. If the anxiety is too much and you're at the point where you're like, I need to resolve this, I want to have a conversation, then you get to call him and say, "Hey, we need to talk."

Just because you said two weeks ago, "Well, you let me know when you're ready," doesn't mean you can't come back and say, "You know what? It's been two weeks. I thought you would have called me by now. We need to talk this out." However, if what you're doing is setting boundaries, then you might want to practice sitting in what it feels like to maybe have them be disappointed or not happy with you because it sounds a lot like Mara may be a pleaser and may tend towards peacekeeping by any means necessary, which means that you often are doing things you don't want to do. Well, do you want to call him or do you want to wait and live in the peace of him not bullying you for a little longer?

Jim Burns: Well spoken. Again, I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer as much on this because like you said, Jackie, it kind of depends on how she's feeling and where she's going. If she's doing it to kind of just lay down, I think a couple of things happen that were really good. One is she stood up for herself. That's a good thing, Mara. Way to go.

Now, on the other hand, he, who probably doesn't have a great particularly said they were addicts. There's no addict that's very good at communication and no addict can deal with issues. So he said, "Really, I'm sorry." He actually apologized. Now he did it in a weird way. I totally get it. So, Mara, you got the thing started. Maybe he's ready to have a conversation. Go ask him for coffee if you want and just say, "Hey, we had a little blow-up." And then share with him your feelings, how it makes you feel when he belittles you or when he bullies you without burning on him. Practice it. You said practice, practice this. This is a relationship that you want to keep. So if you do that, you may be surprised. And there you go.

Brian Perez: Mara, thank you so much for reaching out to us through newlife.com/radio. You can go there too, find our email address, excuse me, or the voicemail number to leave us a voicemail. But we really like talking to you and we're going to do that when we come back. We've got calls coming in from Canada and California. Stand by.

Guest (Female): Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression, all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because everyone matters. Your generosity helps find them. And you know, we've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the 1 is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433 or newlife.com/9941. Join the mission. Rescue the one and restore the many.

Brian Perez: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live. Thank you so much to our monthly contributors here to newlife.com and to our one-time contributors as well. We are so grateful for what you guys do to help us continue helping people. We've been doing this for almost 40 years now. We are so thankful that God sends people our way and that they open up to us and that we can help them to repent, to find a way to change their life, to get back on the right trajectory and to heal with their family, with friends, whatever the case might be. So thank you for whatever you can do at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or at newlife.com or you can text NLM to 28950 and send your gift that way. It also allows us to keep calls coming in from places like Canada. Here is Perry who listens to us on the New Life app. Thank you, Perry, for calling in today to New Life Live.

Perry: Thank you for having me and thank you for doing all that you all do for allowing God to use you and your team. I'm just so grateful for New Life Ministries.

Brian Perez: Thank you, Perry. So nice of you to say that.

Perry: You're welcome. Yes. So I was just trying to get some advice in terms of the family dynamics at home. There's just been some injuries, I guess, wounds from the past with my son and my husband. And it's like it's really hard to even get him to accept anything from my husband, which is his step-dad. And I was just like how can I help him to he says he forgives, but he's just been, I should say, guarded in terms of how to receive things from him. And my husband, he's like this wound has been gone and this is done. But there's still not there's still something there. And I don't know how to I don't want to force him to say like, oh, get over it and dismiss his pain. But I just need help to help him navigate that he's like, I don't want to be reproached. I don't want to accept anything and I get reproached. And so he's right because my husband has done it in the past and I've brought it up to him, but I'm not the family dynamics has changed and I don't know how to deal with that.

Dr. Jackie McHenry: It's hard when there's something that's really out of your control, what your husband said or how he responds or rejects and in response to need is out of your control. And your son is hurt and has expressed his hurt and is trying to keep himself safe because it sounds like he doesn't feel like he can trust that he won't be rejected again. And I don't know that there's anything you can do about that because you're not experiencing what your son is experiencing. And things may have changed in the family. You said the family dynamics have changed. Were you saying they've changed for the better?

Perry: No, like it I mean, after this wound, this past wound, there's definitely been a difference. Yeah.

Dr. Jackie McHenry: And so I think that that's a consequence of what the behavior was. Often we will get an apology and a person will forgive us and we believe that that then means that everything should go back to the way it was so that we can now feel the comfort we once felt. But we don't get that. Because of what has occurred, this is now a part of your story. And so he gets to feel how he feels about it and it's not his job to risk harm again so that the parents can feel more comfortable.

The your husband did what he did and said what he said. It caused this rupture. He can do his work to repair the rupture. But it could take depending on what it was that was said and what happened, it could take, you know, years to decades for that wound to heal, especially if it's being reopened regularly.

Perry: Yes. Yes. Okay. Because for my husband, it's like he he has made made amends with gifts, but for my son, it's like although he might receive the gifts, but he hasn't really heard the apology or I guess really seen a difference enough. I'm not sure.

Dr. Jackie McHenry: And so then then you support your son's boundaries because your husband hasn't done work to grow and improve and to repair the damage that he did. And so he doesn't get off from being hurtful by buying presents and never having to say, "Hey, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have spoken to you that way. I don't know what I was thinking. I can't believe I said that to you. I don't feel that way. I don't mean that. I love you. You're my son." He's not done that, then there's nothing for you to do with your son but support his decision to hold this boundary with your husband until your husband steps up and does what he should do.

Jim Burns: I really appreciate your question and I think you're stuck in the middle. And it's always hard for a mom to be stuck in the middle because again, your son needs to do some work and your husband needs to do some work. Did I understand that is this the biological father to your son?

Perry: No, it's it's his step-dad. Yeah.

Jim Burns: Yeah, okay. So it's it's his step-dad. Okay because again, that puts another step fire in the burner if you would. So, your son has to realize what is my relationship like with my step-father and they can be really good. But at the same time, he may still he may even be working through some of that kind of stuff. So the one thing you could encourage your husband is exactly what I think Jackie said is that he's going to have to embrace "I'm sorry" and his way of saying "I'm sorry" might be to give a gift, which is probably not what your son needs. Your son probably needs something different and you might be able to encourage him.

But again, you're stuck in the middle. If he doesn't do it, he's a big boy. He's going to have to figure this out. And then secondly, your son is going to have to figure out where is his place in this relationship with his step-dad. Those aren't easy things. That's why again, I suggest strongly that you go get the counseling and then if there's ever a chance to get some family dynamic type counseling, this would be the time because somebody else might be able to bring that out where that's not your job. You're mom. You're wife. So your job description isn't counselor too. And I think we do this too often when we get in the middle of it. We try to play mom, wife, counselor, lover, disciplinarian and all that. That doesn't work. So the more you can get the help of somebody else. The Bible says where there's no counsel the people fall, in the multitude of counselors there is safety. I say it every time, every week. And it seems to me that that's where you kind of want to get some input. And maybe even for your husband, maybe there's somebody at your church or some place who would give you some would give him more of a different viewpoint than you as his wife and maybe they've had a similar experience and and they did something and it worked. So there you go. I honestly, I you're stuck in the middle and that's a tough place to be, Perry.

Perry: I and I have one more question left because for me it's like okay, my son, I want to support him with his boundaries, but sometime he goes back on his boundaries where he'll accept some gifts if it's beneficial to him. But after that, it's like, no, I don't want to. So it's I want to support him with his boundaries when it's time for him to put me and say, "Oh well, I could accept this gift," should I kind of remind him on, well, this is your boundaries. Are you sure you want to go back on your word? I don't know.

Jim Burns: I mean, that's that's a mom that's a mom statement. So you that could happen. What you'll have to decide I call this personally tailored parenting. What one adult child may need to hear exactly what you just said. Another adult child needs you to not even make a comment about it. So this is where you have to have the discernment. Pray for that discernment or get the insight from somebody else to kind of coach you through that. But we all have, like I have three daughters. I parent them differently because they have different personalities, different ways of looking at things, different faith and values things. And so that's the same thing here. So you'll have to have the discernment that really only you know. And I wish I could tell you there's a magic answer. It may be by trial and error. "Well, that didn't work with him, so we'll try this." I told my oldest daughter years ago, "We're just kind of doing trial and error on you because to be honest, we don't know what we're doing, so we're trying we're trying on you." And she still laughs because she now does that with her own kids. But that's what you do. It's personally tailored discipleship, personally tailored parenting and it's going to work. This may be you have such a beautiful spirit about yourself. This may this may work in the long run.

Dr. Jackie McHenry: I would say just hold space for them. Have a conversation with them. And yeah, I had that same feeling that Jim had like, I don't know, I don't know him. How would he take it if you said that? Or would he be like, "Oh yeah, that's right, mom. Thanks." So it might be helpful to give him that reminder, but also you know your son.

Brian Perez: Perry, thanks for calling us from Ontario, Canada and we're going to send you a tip sheet called Ten Strategies for a Successful Stepfamily. So stay on hold and we'll send that to you. Anybody else who can benefit from that tip sheet, we can send it to you as well. Just give us a call at 1-800-NEW-LIFE and if you're watching us online right now, we'll drop that information in the show notes so that you know what to ask for when you call us here at New Life. Barbara in Los Angeles, hang on. We're going to come back and talk to you here on New Life Live. God bless you guys. Thanks for watching and listening.

Guest (Male): To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.

Brian Perez: Thank you so much to our monthly contributors here to newlife.com and to our one-time contributors as well. We are so grateful for what you guys do to help us continue helping people. We've been doing this for almost 40 years now. We are so thankful that God sends people our way and that they open up to us and that we can help them to repent, to find a way to change their life, to get back on the right trajectory and to heal with their family, with friends, whatever the case might be. So thank you for whatever you can do at 1-800-NEW-LIFE or at newlife.com or you can text NLM to 28950 and send your gift that way. It also allows us to keep calls coming in from places like Canada.

Barbara listens to New Life Live on newlife.com. She lives in Los Angeles and she's calling in today to talk to Dr. Jackie McHenry and Dr. Jim Burns. Welcome, Barbara, to New Life Live.

Barbara: Hi. Thank you so much.

Brian Perez: Yeah. What's going on? How can we help you?

Barbara: Well, as I said to the the lovely lady that took my information, the question of starting with the question at the end, I know you'll be perplexed for a minute. Question is what can I do? And so the sentence that goes before that is, "I thought she was sober and then the conversation went completely kooky," if you don't mind me using it. Got it? All right.

So, I don't know. Do you want me to start telling you or you want to ask me questions starting with that?

Brian Perez: Well, you can tell us a little bit.

Barbara: All right. Let me tell you a little bit. So, I'm a senior and my sisters are six years younger than me. They are 72. They are twins. They live in another state. Both of them have children. One has children in this state, a child and a grandchild in this state. The other one has two children and two grandchildren in the other state. So the one from this state moved to that state and so they're both down there.

Particularly the one who's been living in in the other state for a while with their family settled there for years has been increasingly drinking. And for the past year, we had they had the classic blow-up at Christmas time. Thank God I wasn't there. And the family finally is coming out of the fog to go, "Gosh, there's a problem with mom." The father from whom she is divorced, the father of the kids, is already been a functional alcoholic for years and years.

So the alcohol issue in the other state has been looming and enormous and nobody has been quite able to realize that it's there. So sibling twin from this state said, "I think my sister's going to die. I got to go there and do something." She's single now. So she goes there and but she's not completely sober herself. She's gone through she's gone through some healing. She's gone through a program not really long. She's been in counseling, so she is not denying it, but the thing that she denies, I think, is her own her own unsobriety at times.

Anyway, so as far as me as far as I'm concerned, she's the only one that I can get information about the totally drinking sister. I call the totally drinking sister and you can imagine the conversations. I don't need to tell you guys. All right. Sometimes I get some information, sometimes I don't. Yes, she wants help. No, she won't go. You got the picture. Well, you described it quite well when you said kooky at the beginning of the call.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much. That's why I had to call you guys. I thought nobody's going to get this except my New Life people, the beautiful counselors from heaven. They will totally get it. So anyway, just so the semi-sober sister is the only one that I can get information from. The the drinking mom's son 40 in in his 40s and a daughter in her 40s. The daughter of the drinking mom drinks herself and is in complete denial. The son did have a drinking problem, gets it a little bit, but still doesn't get it completely. The husband, the second husband of the drinking mom, is an enabler.

Okay. I don't know how much goes through there. So anyway, my only connection is the semi-sober sister. And just to quickly, quickly tell you, so we had this pretty normal conversation. She gives me the update, and then we talk about some dad stuff because it was Father's Day. And then I mention this other thing and she she has this habit of sometimes if I mention a person, well, what does Mike have to say or what does the husband have to say or what does so-and-so have to say? These are people in the family that we have to communicate with. She will go into a complete tirade because she has this giant list of the "no" people. Oh no, the husband is an enabler, therefore he is all bad. The son doesn't listen, therefore he is all bad. So she's in this silo by herself and she's the only one that knows anything.

Brian Perez: So you want us to help you with the alcoholic sister or the the one who's...

Barbara: I don't know. Anything you guys can share. I'm going through it. And I've reconnected with my own counseling, but like, I don't know, that and listen, I've been through a ton of counseling myself. I've worked in drug and alcohol stuff, so it's a but this when I talk to her and I think, okay, I think we got some ground here. I think we got some ground. I think we got two people. Okay, she's not completely sober, but I am completely abstinent. Okay. Not that I'm perfectly healed, but okay. So I thought, okay, and then it's like, oh my God, we've totally lost ground. She has just flown off the handle. Now what? Who? You know, okay.

Dr. Jackie McHenry: I think when you said that you were going to reconnect with your own counselor, I think that's one of the best things you can do because there's a lot going on in your family. And as you said, there's been work done by several of you, but it's an ongoing thing. And something in this season is bringing up more things. It sounds like there's more drinking happening. That's not uncommon in a lot of families since pandemic. Lots of people have realized that their drinking picked up and now they've got to make some changes, but for many it's difficult.

So I would suggest that you get into back into your counseling so you can be talking this out because it can be a little crazy-making when you're in the midst of a conversation and think you have certain information and then they switch tracks on you or flip the script and now you're like, wait, huh? What just happened? And you want to be able to help and be supportive, but also you don't want to take on their burdens. And like you said, you're in your own sobriety, but not perfect. You have your own work to do. So absolutely meeting with someone for yourself so that you can manage your own anxiety about this and maybe even grief about the struggles that your siblings are going through right now.

Jim Burns: You know, Barbara, you're awesome, by the way. But here's the deal. You're not responsible for your family's kookiness. Okay. You're just not. And and I think the hard part is I'm going crazy listening to all the different things, the sisters this and the sisters that. And until somebody is willing to A, maybe intervene, there's something called an intervention. You said you were in this world, so you know what that is. If somebody would do an intervention with the one who's in the worst shape, that sometimes can work. I mean, it really does. It's a really effective way to have other addicts kind of do it is a little harder.

But but the work on your own self. I mean, what Jackie was saying is you may just have to lower some expectations until and pray like crazy because honestly, God cares about this whole mess and he's okay with messes, so he can figure it out. But at this point, you just have to understand that you're not responsible for all of this, even though it sounds like you're the responsible one of this entire family. And and yeah, you can't enable them either because that's not going to work. And it sounds like you have a good handle on it. But I wish what we always want is we want this magic wand thing and this is not a magic wand. This is sometimes somebody said to me one time I come from a family where there's alcoholism. They said, "You might have to just not have the same expectations because they're not in recovery." And that was really helpful for me. And then the person who was the hardest at it ended up going in recovery after 20 years, see. So and it still wasn't perfect, but it was good. So you I wish sometimes people call New Life and there's a resolve an issue. I don't know that we're going to resolve this one as much as do the work yourself and understand that you are not responsible for trying to figure out all these other things. They've made some poor choices.

Brian Perez: That's the thing about the world we live in and the families that we have. It seems like everyone's at some point of kooky and it's hard for us to deal with it. And that's why we're here at New Life to help you with these situations because if other people don't want to change, at least you will know how to react to whatever it is that's going on. Barbara, thank you so much for calling into today to New Life Live. We've got a webinar coming up in July. It's called Grief: Hope and Healing After Loss because there is a lot of grief going on in the world today and whether that grief comes from the death of a loved one or the loss of a job or who knows what it could be. We want you to come to this webinar. It's happening on July 16th. You can find out more about it by texting the word webinar to 28950. God bless you guys. We'll see you at church on Sunday and we'll talk to you again on Monday on New Life Live.

Guest (Male): Thank you so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.