FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

Even though it makes absolutely no sense to me. We obey what the Lord says. And it's nothing like what I thought. A plus B is C. It ends up being Z. And I didn't even know that that was part of the equation because God is the one in control.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wil.

Speaker 3

And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. We're back with my friends Brittany and ECS, and we're going to be talking about submission. So buckle your seatbelt, ladies. Here we go. And gentlemen, that's true.

I remember seeing my friend Andrea Griffith use this illustration on stage as she was teaching. She had an umbrella in her hand, and I use this now for myself. I’ll put the umbrella up and say to the women in the audience, "What part is most important? Is it the canvas that covers us as the umbrella, or is it the handle that holds up and supports the canvas? Which one is the most important?" Some will say one or the other, but you really can’t have one apart from the other. If you only have the canvas, it’s not really covering all of you. But if you only have the handle, it’s more like a lightning rod; you don’t have the covering to protect you.

I think that’s a good picture of submission. In our roles as husbands and wives, is one more important than the other? God says we’re equal. If we, as women, are supporting and cheering on our husbands, and if we’re caring for our families the way God has called us to do, then our husbands are this protective covering, which is also incredibly important. Who are we both submitting to? The Father, as to Him.

I remember one pastor saying, "I want you to give your lives to Jesus. Jesus has so much for you." As a new believer, you’re like, "Yes, yes, I will do anything for you, Jesus. I will serve you. I will do anything. Put me back in the kids. I’ll go to Africa to be a missionary." And he goes, "You know what the thing I want you to do? I want you to go home and love your husbands."

Then the wife is like, "Wait, what? I want you to love him, and I want him to know how much God loves him by the way you love him." Now we’re getting into it—that’s real. Because, as you said earlier, Brittany, what if he doesn’t deserve it?

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Did we deserve God's death on the cross and his bloodshed for us? No. So I think it's. It's convicting, and it's beautiful. But the thing that you're both saying is you feel freedom in it.

Speaker 4

Absolutely.

Speaker 3

Why that word?

Speaker 1

Because to me, submission is my participation in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. One of my biggest pet peeves is when I hear pastors talk about submission, especially on the Sundays when they discuss Ephesians 5, First Peter, or any other passage that addresses the topic. They often focus on the women, and I’ve seen this happen repeatedly. Ladies, I’m so sorry; it feels like we’ve drawn the short end of the stick. I know you don’t want to hear about this, and it’s often presented as if it’s a bad deal that we got, as if we’re somehow at a disadvantage in God’s purpose.

In reality, submission is our participation in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus himself submitted not just to the Father while he was on earth, but I believe it’s in John where it says that he submitted to his mother and father—absolutely fallen, undeserving people. God Almighty, seated at the right hand of the Father, submitted to Mary and Joseph, who were born in sin. And yet, he submits to them. I get to participate in that; I get to walk that path of Christ.

The death that Christ experienced on the cross for us allows me to participate in that death. In submitting to my husband, I have to put to death certain aspects of myself. But in that death, just as Jesus obeyed the Father even to the point of death on the cross, I find that my submission causes me to be fully dependent on Christ. Nobody else in this world gets to experience the level of dependency that I have on the Lord in order to submit to Isaac, Blake, Todd, and others.

It’s kind of like how I was telling Ike about this last night. We are here in this world yearning for the coming of Christ. Obviously, nobody wants to die, but we yearn for His return because we want to be with our Savior. It’s the same way every time it is difficult for me to submit to Ike. I get to run to my Savior. I have one-on-one time with the Lord; I get to have Him speak to me, mold me, and shape me. I get to have this unique moment with my Lord and Savior that is special to me. This is a way that Christ has provided a unique opportunity for me to run to Him.

Speaker 3

Give us an example where you've had to run to them. Maybe it's been hard. And what does that prayer sound like?

Speaker 1

All of the women that I know that are believing Christians who are willing to say, "Lord, you are Lord over my life, and therefore I'm willing to submit," are smarter, more capable, more wise, and more discerning than the husbands that God has given them.

I'm just gonna be.

Speaker 3

That's a big statement.

Speaker 1

I'm just gonna be like, wait, are.

Speaker 3

We including you two in this?

Speaker 1

Yes, very much so. I love you so much, Ike. You have the spirit of God in you, and I know that the Lord uses you and speaks to you.

Speaker 3

I know that I can't wait for them and him to hear this.

Speaker 1

Yes. But honestly, I don't think that either one of our husbands would argue this to a certain extent. And this is.

Speaker 3

I think that they would agree with you for sure.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And this isn't a knock to them. No, this isn't like, this is just saying, like, God has given women a particular way of discerning things, and we can sometimes see things before they happen in a sense.

Like, we can discern like, A plus B equals C and dah, dah, dah. And that equals that. And so therefore, we can't do this. Da, da, da.

And so there's been times in our marriage where we're making decisions, and I'm like, that doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 3

Will you say that?

Speaker 1

Yes, I will say, oh, honest. Very honest. Like, oh, you're not.

Speaker 3

When you're saying, and I think this is important to be submissive does not mean you lose your voice of saying what you feel. Because some women are like, I can't even say it. No, you can say it.

Speaker 1

No, you can very much say.

Speaker 3

And so you said this is a bad decision.

Speaker 1

This is a bad decision. This is not good.

Speaker 3

And he's not threatened by it at all.

Speaker 1

In those moments, I have seen Ike say, "You know what? I think you're right. Let's pray about it, and then let's see what the Lord tells us to do." Sometimes it ends up being what I say. And sometimes, even though it makes absolutely no sense to me, we obey what the Lord says.

It's nothing like what I thought. A plus B is C, but it ends up being Z. I didn't even know that that was part of the equation because God is the one in control.

In those moments when that's hard, I am, like, gnashing my teeth and just thinking, "Why would this man even think that this is now?" I'm like, "God," and I tell Him, "Lord, what? What is this?"

Speaker 3

Why this man? That's what your prayer sounds like?

Speaker 1

Yes, that's what my prayers sound like. Like, Lord, this makes absolutely no sense. I don't get it. Why would you give me this foresight to see like this? And da, da, da, da. How is he not seeing this? How is he not able to put two and two together? How is he not able to? If the Tupperware is in the dishwasher, then that means that the lid is also there because it was used. So therefore, put them together and put them in the drawer. How is that even possible?

Like, how does he not see that, Lord? Why? Why? And in those moments, the Lord reminds me, I am God. I am in control, not you. You cannot see all things.

Speaker 3

And you can trust me.

Speaker 1

You can trust me. And so then my prayer turns into, "Lord, shape my perspective based on your purpose. Help me to see this from your framework, not mine. God, I submit this. I don't know how. I don't know how this makes sense, but I'm trusting you. So help me to have peace in this. Sustain me. Help me, help me."

And that's just like a dependence. I get that this isn't the short end of the stick. There is joy in that because it's driving me to my Savior, and it's off our shoulders.

Speaker 3

There's a relief to me when it's not. It's not on me.

Speaker 1

Listen.

Speaker 3

Let’s say that you did rebel, like, "No, I am right in this, and we're going to do it my way." What would happen is now you have a marriage where you're on two separate pages. Your husband feels disrespected. He feels like, "Well, I don't even have a voice. She's going to do whatever she wants anyway." And now you have a marriage that's teetering, like, "Where are we?"

But because of your submission to him and to God, now you're like, "Well, all right." What about you guys? Brittany, have you ever faced a hard decision?

Speaker 4

Yeah, we really have. I mean, through many, many years of. And this is what's interesting as well. Like, as our lives have changed, our personalities have changed. I've learned more about him. He's learned more about me. So what this looks like has changed over the years.

And we're. I guess you would say our roles have been solid, but everything around it has been molded and shaped by our season of life. So the Lord is. He's always challenging us to do hard things. And I think the Lord speaks through those hard things. He'll whisper it in my ear, and he'll shout it to recap, you know, and so I'm gonna be like, I can't hear that whisper. I don't hear that. And then recap's like, I heard the shout. This is what the Lord is saying.

And I think an amazing thing that recap does is. I mean, he's just a. He's a very chill person. He's not super uptight. But when it comes to things of the Lord, he does not budge. And if he knows the Lord has told him this, he's like, I'm standing firm. Are you with me?

And often, I think in the beginning of our marriage, I would take it as obedience. Yes, I am with you. I will do what you say.

Speaker 3

Yeah, you're the robot.

Speaker 4

Yeah. And I would just be like, in the back of my mind, I'm like, kind of what you're saying. I know this isn't going to work out. I know things are gonna go bad, but let him see his failure.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 4

And now, as I've matured in my marriage, it's more of a posture of. A More submissive posture of.

Speaker 3

It's more of we, We.

Speaker 4

And my heart is yearning for God to be glorified with everything. So it's not about, okay, I'm gonna be the robot and do what recab has pushed us to go towards. It's more of, my heart yearns for God to be glorified in this. So how can I support and move forward with recap so we can be a unit and we can see God's flourishing?

Because I've seen so many times over and over and over again where I thought I was right, and so I would sit in the corner and mull over, okay, this is wrong. Okay, this is wrong, and this is wrong. And then present it to him like, I followed your orders, but this is what was all wrong. And it's like, oh, why did you follow my orders if you really? Your heart wasn't really in it?

And so now that I feel that more, that tug of like, okay, Lord, you're pushing for, and I might not be able to see it clearly. Like you said, there might be A plus B might equal Z. And I've never seen that happen before. I don't even know the miracles of God that he can perform in this.

And so I've seen time and time again where the Lord just used those moments of just like, if your heart is with me, I will cover you and protect you. Your husband is guiding you and leading you. Follow him. And I've seen things flourish.

Speaker 3

And we're a team. I feel like when we're not a team, like, God has made us as one, and so we should function as a team. I want to be a good teammate. So if I'm on a sports team and I don't agree with what the coach says or a player is doing, and I'm like, "Well, I'm going to do what I want," you are going to lose as a team. But as a team, we're battling the enemy. We're taking territory as a family, together, as teammates.

But, man, the enemy wants to divide us. He wants us to be in our heads as women, thinking, "Well, that's a dumb decision." There have been times regarding giving money where Dave has come in and said, "I feel like we're supposed to give to this capital campaign," and at that time, it felt like a ridiculous amount for tithing. I remember saying, "That sounds just dumb and irresponsible." I would say that, but then I would say, "Let me pray about it."

So I would go to the Lord, and I would pray, "Lord, this feels irresponsible; we're not good stewards. This is not wise. Father, what do you think?" I think that step for us as women is crucial: "Father, what do you think?" and to listen to our husbands: "What do you think?" I felt like God was saying, "Yes, Dave has exactly that number that I gave him, and you can trust me in this."

Hey, guys. We just wanted to take a quick minute to jump in and say, whatever you're going through today, I think this is important to remember: you aren't alone. Did you know that Dave and I have a team at Family Life today ready to pray for you? It’s this incredible honor and privilege to lift your name up to God. So if you need prayer, please don't hesitate to reach out to us. I really mean that.

Head on over to familylife.com/prayforme. Again, that's familylife.com/prayforme, and tell us how we can pray. We are not kidding. Dave and I have a prayer team specifically dedicated to praying for our listeners. I pray for some of these while I'm on my walks with God. I just pray, "I will pray for you." And Dave, you always fast on Fridays, and that's when you pray.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I take the whole day. And instead of eating food, I'm praying and I'm praying for my family. But I'm also praying, praying for you and your family. And isn't that a great thing to know that someone's praying for you?

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 2

And if it's not Ann and I praying for you, someone from our small prayer team will pray for you by name. We love to do it. So go to familylife.com prayforme and submit your requests. And I mean, do it right now. We would love to pray for you today.

Speaker 3

Before we end, I want to hit on what submission is not. Because I had a woman in her 50s just two weeks ago come up and say to me, "I got this submission thing all wrong."

She shared that she grew up in the church and didn’t think she should ever go against anything her husband said. As a result, she just stuffed everything inside a little bit, similar to what you were saying, Brittany. She would go off to the side and think, "That's dumb, that's ridiculous." But she would do it in a spirit of rebellion.

So, what would you say is not biblical submission when you're talking about that?

Speaker 1

It made me think of the first Peter passage.

Speaker 3

Yes.

Speaker 1

When it's talking about wives and husbands, it says, "likewise, be subject to your own husbands so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives." When they see your respectful and pure conduct, do not let your adorning be external.

It goes into the adorning and all of that, most specifically down in verse six. Well, five and six talk about submitting to their own husbands. As Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord, and you are her children if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.

Speaker 3

Oh, I haven't really picked up on that last part.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I think that what submission is not, is not abuse. And I think we need to be very clear on that. I think that unfortunately, this word of submission has been used as a weapon against women to oppress or to bring down or to bring shame or to shut up and be quiet, and you don't have a say. That's not at all what the Lord is saying.

First of all, if you are in an abusive relationship, you need to tell somebody and get safe. And get safe. Yeah, tell somebody, get safe. That is not what God is telling you in terms of being submissive. That is not. Because as we read in Ephesians 5, the word that God has for the husband is about presenting her clean and pure without a blemish, to love her as his own body. All of that is the husband creating an environment where the woman feels safe and secure to be able to submit.

And so if that is not there, it is a frightening thing. And what I hope that you hear in that is the mercy and grace of God in that, because He is acknowledging that where my perfect plan and how I have ordained, how I have constructed and ordained what the role of man and wife is supposed to be, wherever that is perverted, it is a frightening thing. And God acknowledges that.

Right. And so even in this passage where it says where Sarah referred to Abraham as Lord, that goes back to Genesis 18, and that is, first of all, just a whole nother sermon. It's a whole nother topic, she says. So Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I am worn out and my Lord is old, shall I have pleasure?" It says that she said this to herself, meaning that she referred to her husband as Lord in her heart.

So, wife, how are you referring to your husband in your heart when you're silent and you're on your own? So there's that part, but also which... Right there.

Speaker 3

Just that alone.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

What are your thoughts and what are you thinking about your husband?

Speaker 1

Because if, when they're leading, all we're doing is think, you did this wrong, you did this wrong, you did this wrong. And we're just there to point out what they did wrong.

Speaker 3

You might even say it, but they can tell by your way of being.

Speaker 1

Exactly. Yeah. And so with submission, there's honor.

Speaker 3

Do you know what changes a husband so much? This.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

When we honor them, bless them, we speak kindly to them and lift them up, they want to be a good man.

Speaker 1

So here's the kicker. You know, when she says this just a couple of chapters before he gave her to the Egyptian king, to The Pharaoh, right before this, he also, right before this, in chapter 16, slept with Hagar. And not only that, but in the next chapters, he gives her to another king. He does it again, putting her in danger. That is fearful, that is frightening. That is there.

But yet he says, don't fear what is frightening. And that's where the submitting is unto the Lord. And so it is frightening. It is scary. It is scary to submit to a fallen, broken, undeserving man. It is because sin entered this world.

But like Ephesians says, we are submitting unto the Lord, and so we serve a greater God. And if there is anybody who is jealous of us, protective of us, who loves us, it is God. And so what? Submission is not.

Speaker 3

It's not abuse, and it's not following your husband into sin. That's abuse; any kind of sin, yes, that's abusive. And God doesn't want us to follow into that.

But what a great way to end. And it reminds me too of the power we have as women that God has given us. Like, what an incredible role that he has given us.

Speaker 4

Us.

Speaker 3

It's this beautiful gift that he's given us as well.

Speaker 1

You asked, like, why there's joy in this. For me now, this is my experience.

Like, I can say, because I have a husband who has created that space for me and all of that and submits himself to the Lord. Again, there's mutual submission. There's submission here.

Submits himself to the Lord. I have seen so much of my life be restored and be redeemed through, like the Lord does it through.

Speaker 3

Ike.

Speaker 1

There's so many things about my past, my traumatic experiences, things that I have gone through in my life that the Lord has then redeemed and rewritten.

And I have been able to see beauty and just even the most minuscule of details that the Lord has decided, you know what? I'm going to redeem this detail for you.

And it's through, Ike, that God has done that.

Speaker 4

So.

Speaker 1

So that's where a lot of my joy comes from. Because I am literally seeing the Lord rewrite my history in my obedience and submission to my husband and his submission to the Lord.

Speaker 3

I would add that on as well as Dave has done that for me. Nobody believes in me, speaks more highly of me, pushes me into things that I don't think that I can do. And I wanna be on his team. I wanna be with him. I wanna. Like, he has brought out the very best in me.

And so there's that beauty of wanting to be the woman that God made me be. And it all starts there. It begins with our walk with Jesus.

And Brittany, you're shaking your head. What are you thinking as we close? Absolutely.

Speaker 4

I think that's the perfect ending. As you're saying that Recab is the one.

He is the one who sees me the most and who's pushing me and challenging me and following him and the things everyone else might say.

It's crazy, but I'm like, I know the Lord told you to do that, so we're walking in it. Let's go.

Speaker 3

Here we go.

Speaker 4

We've had those. We've had so many of those moments where it's like everyone else is thinking we're crazy, but we. We heard from the Lord, and I'm following him, so, so good.

Speaker 2

Okay, guys, we've got a quick question. How would you honestly rate your marriage on a scale 1 to 10? That's a scary thing. I don't even want to ask you to do it because it doesn't always go well.

Speaker 1

But.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

Family Life today is a donor supported ministry, a Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.