FamilyLife Today®

Clare Morell: I talk to parents and they feel guilty. They feel like somehow they have failed when their child then accesses something. And I just try to encourage them. It's not on you. The phone is just designed to be inherently difficult for parents to oversee and effectively control.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to Family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. Today is going to be a great episode. I'm really excited for our listeners. You're going to love this.

Dave Wilson: I think this could change

Ann Wilson: Family.

Dave Wilson: the direction and legacy of a family.

Ann Wilson: Yeah.

Dave Wilson: I'm just telling you, fasten your seat belt. You're going to get challenged and you're going to rethink some things and I think we all need to rethink this this topic.

Ann Wilson: And we're going to give you some tools. We have Claire Morell with us. And so Claire, before we even get into what you do and all of that, I have a question for you.

Clare Morell: Mhm.

Ann Wilson: Let's say you have two parents come up to you. They have four kids who are teen and preteen.

Clare Morell: Mhm.

Ann Wilson: And their kids have just been badgering them to get a cell phone, a smartphone. All of them because their friends have one, their peers, everybody's talking about it. They're all communicating in that way they can't. And if you had one minute because this is your passion and your expertise right now

Clare Morell: Yeah.

Ann Wilson: to talk to the parents for one minute, what do you think you'd say to them?

Clare Morell: I would say keep going. I know that the pressures culturally and socially are very intense for parents. I just want to acknowledge that that it is countercultural to say no to smartphones for your tweens and teens, but it is the best possible decision you can make for your family. And I'm sure we'll get into this more, but I've studied really extensively just the impact of screens, uh particularly these interactive screens, smartphones, social media, tablets on kids' brains, their development, and the kinds of exposure to harmful content, dangerous actors that these screens introduce. And so just really know that handing that child a smartphone is really the kind of end of their childhood.

And so

Dave Wilson: But Claire,

Ann Wilson: Whoa.

Dave Wilson: Come on.

Ann Wilson: That's that's a good one minute right there.

Dave Wilson: No, I mean I do, but I know parents right now are like, but I can't. It's impossible. They are badgering. They You know you know you know you're a parent.

Clare Morell: Claire. Yeah.

Dave Wilson: Um you know the world they're living in and it is non-stop in terms of my classmates have one. They have one. Everyone has one.

Ann Wilson: Well, even the teams communicate. Like coaches will communicate through text messages.

Clare Morell: Yeah. Yes.

Ann Wilson: So for like like tell us who you are.

Clare Morell: Oh, yeah yeah yeah. I'm a mom and a wife and so I'm married to my husband Caleb who's a pastor. We have three young children, two boys who are almost six and then four and then a little girl who's two and then we're expecting our fourth child. Um my professional expertise is I've spent really the last five to seven years just devoted to this issue of how do we protect our kids online from the dangers of smartphones, social media, online pornography and have worked in the government and then the public policy space. But then this book uh was really kind of my passion project of I was getting asked by parents all the time for advice.

Okay, based on all the research you do of these harms like what should we do? And I wanted a comprehensive, practical resource to encourage them that it's actually possible to resist giving smartphones and social media to our children and teenagers. And I wanted to author parents a path forward for how do we do this in a culture that is so saturated with these technologies. There is a growing cultural recognition that these things are harmful. And we have research now that we didn't have 10 years ago when a lot of these technologies were coming out um that shows the negative impacts on a child's developing brain, that shows the kind of positive factors affecting especially teens' mental health, anxiety, depression, suicide, self-harm.

Um also the kind of younger and younger age of exposure to things like online pornography because of the ease of accessing that on a smartphone or social media. And so we just we have more research and I think parents are more aware, but still kind of feel like they end up caught in what I call in the book this screen time trap because they recognize the harms, but they feel like it's impossible to resist giving these things to your kids. And so the kind of cultural strategies and really the ones pushed by the tech companies on parents has been, okay, just put screen time limits in place, enable the parental controls and you can kind of have both.

You can give your child these screens so they stop bothering you and badgering you for them, but you can also protect them from harms. And the research I was staring at was showing me that really wasn't actually the case, that screen time limits are really no match when something is inherently addictive. And the more I studied the neuroscience that these screens were having, that they were really activating the same reward pathways in the brain as addictive substances like alcohol or tobacco or drugs and that other time the brain scan images of people using social media started to resemble those of drug addicts that it was having the same changes in the brain.

Yeah. So I have done really deep in the neuroscience because I felt like God has like designed our brains a particular way and especially for children whose brains are still developing, we need to understand how their brains are impacted negatively by this so we can understand what's best for their flourishing and how God has made us. That really convinced me that just like other addictive substances, we don't try to limit them. We just eliminate them from childhood because of the level of harm and impact especially on a developing brain. And so I was studying the same things with social media and smartphones that these are having the same addictive effects.

It's the same mechanism kind of at work on the brain. And so how do we then encourage parents toward a total opt out? Parents know more about the harms. You're asking me how the reception has been. I think it's largely positive because they recognize the harms and they're really desperate for help, but they don't know how to do differently because again it feels like every single person has given their child a smartphone. And so that's really why I wrote the book is I was actually trying to inspire parents to help them very practically on the front lines, but then also more broadly to cultural change where when we bond together as parents, it makes it easier on each individual parent to opt out.

And so I really try to encourage parents to find each other um which for Christians I think we have a very natural counter community in the church. Um and we're even prepared to live counterculturally. We understand that we're not going to look like the world in how we live and how we parent. Technology is another category for parents to kind of put in that box of this is a countercultural area where to be faithful Christian parents, we have to recognize how screens are interfering not just with our child's brain development, how God's designed their brains, but also even our goals as Christian parents that there are spiritual threats and harms from these technologies of undermining that parental influence in a child's life.

So that's why I wrote this book and I'm really hoping we will see an impact. And I I do see like slowly the tide is starting to change. I feel like I meet more and more parents especially in my generation more armed with the research who are saying we're not going to give smartphones to our teens. And I do think if you can make those commitments earlier um in your child's life and find those other parents earlier, it will make it easier to resist those pressures.

Ann Wilson: Dave and I said that after reading your book and listening to you, we both said I don't think we could do it.

Dave Wilson: How many parents do you know, I mean statistically, aren't doing it or how many are? Like is there an average age that the parent gives his phone to his kid?

Clare Morell: Well, the average age nationally of uh the age of first smartphone is around 11. And so it's gotten younger and younger. Yes. And I'm hoping over their time that's one of the metrics I 'm hoping to track to see like is that age going to eventually kind of migrate higher um back closer to late adolescence um

Dave Wilson: Right. And you're saying they're giving an 11-year-old a

Clare Morell: smartphone.

Dave Wilson: Smartphone. It's not dumb. It's fully

Clare Morell: Yes. No, it's fully smart.

Dave Wilson: access to the internet.

Clare Morell: Yes. 10, 11, 12-year-olds.

Dave Wilson: They may have It may have some boundaries on it, but a lot of parents don't even think of that.

Clare Morell: No, and I think well-meaning parents will say we feel like they have to have a phone to communicate with us or their friends. All their friends are on the smartphone, but they recognize, okay, there could be dangerous apps or bad actors or or harmful things on the phone that we want to prevent. Um and so they're kind of told just enable the parental controls and then the phone will be safe. But I can just tell you story after story after story that it is just impossible to effectively lock down a smartphone in this

Dave Wilson: Tell us a story.

Clare Morell: Yeah. In this app-based ecosystem, every single app actually has its own in-app browser, its own portal to the internet. So if you install like a filter to filter out pornography websites, they often can actually operate inside of the apps or these in-app browsers. One mom said that she found out her son had actually accessed a pornography website through the parental control app she had installed on the phone to set time limits because he was able to go to the support tab inside the parental control app which then brought him to an internet browser that then this separate kind of pornography filter she had installed couldn't access or block because it was all inside this app that was a parental control app.

And so he actually was aware of his struggle and so he confessed it to his mom that he had done this and actually was asking for her help to lock it down more because there's just hundreds of loopholes on these smart devices because their app-based every app has its own in-app browser. Most apps block third-party access. So if you install that parental control app, it just can't access the things inside the app. The best kind of information you have as a parent is just looks like your child spent 30 minutes to an hour on Snapchat.

You have no idea that they were doing on a pornography website inside of that app. And so it's just inherently

Ann Wilson: It doesn't show up on his screen.

Clare Morell: just challenging for parents to actually effectively lock it down or oversee what their kids are doing. I mean the the size and nature of it is so private and so secretive. It's all too easy for a child to be exposed to something dangerous. And the other example I would mention is even these kind of educational games or apps where, you know, this mom just thought her daughter was on there learning a foreign language, they all have these social media components now. They've added these features where you can kind of find or add friends or exchange direct messages.

And this is with complete strangers. And so she just thought her daughter was on this app learning Spanish and kind to find out she's exchanging messages with all of these people online who could be adults, could be predators, not in their geographic location. Just her mom had no idea that she was, you know, using that component of the app. I would just say to parents who think they can kind of give the smartphone, but put these parental controls in place to protect their kids that the controls fall far short of being effective and that you're just setting yourself up as a parent for a very frustrating and exhausting situation where I just I talk to parents and they feel guilty.

They feel like somehow they have failed when their child then accesses something. And I just try to encourage them. It's not on you. The phone is just designed to be inherently difficult for parents to oversee and effectively control. And so just get rid of it.

Dave Wilson: So it sounds you're saying to the parent which we all are,

Clare Morell: Yeah.

Dave Wilson: you got to understand what you're handing your son. I mean that son that told his mom

Clare Morell: That's exactly right.

Dave Wilson: I went through pornography is very rare. Most kids are never the dopamine loops going to start. They they're even going to fight an addiction that's going to become a secret and who knows where it's going to lead.

Clare Morell: Right. They're not going to say that. That's right. Yes. Yes.

Dave Wilson: Wow.

Clare Morell: Yes. So I just I try to encourage parents like handing the child a smartphone is kind of acknowledging that they're you're basically handing them access to pornography. Like it's not an if, but kind of a when. And you are setting them up to kind of enter adult life addicted to something. Like you're setting them up to be dependent on something because and again it's not that anything's wrong with your child. Um it is designed to hijack their brain and these brain vulnerabilities. And you mentioned dopamine and it gets talked about a lot, but I I do think it's important for parents even you don't have to be a scientific expert to understand it's this neurotransmitter that is released that incentivizes us to pursue a reward.

It motivates us. It gives you this little burst of energy, excitement, anticipation. Um and it feels good. And it incentivizes you to keep going. But dopamine Oh, this was designed by God to help us pursue natural rewards that are good for us, things like deep physical, social bonds with our family and our friends or the kind of feeling that you get when you work really hard and you're motivated, you're working hard, and then you experience the satisfaction of that hard work. Like you go on a hike and you reach the summit. Dopamine was meant to incentivize us to do things that were good for us biologically um and for the survival of the human species.

But with the online world, these kids are getting these artificially high dopamine hits even in a short amount of time on an app because I hear this from parents. Well, they are just doing the social media app 15 minutes a day. Well, in 15 minutes they're getting these constant dopamine hits every time they scroll and it's a new short form video or they get a new like or a notification, a friend posts something new. It's this little burst of dopamine because again it was meant to incentivize this kind of pursuit of social bonds and social rewards.

But with the online world, there's no real consummation of that reward. Dopamine doesn't produce any lasting satisfaction or pleasure. We don't experience that in the online world. And so instead kids are just chasing dopamine after dopamine hit after dopamine hit and they're in this endless kind of pursuit of this like wanting stage without ever experiencing real satisfaction or pleasure. And over their time what happens to the brain is it becomes addicted to that particular stimulus. It starts to crave that specific kind of form of dopamine. And in this kind of dopamine flooding of the brain over their time desensitizes us to pleasures in the real world.

And so kids kind of then are in this state of numbness where nothing in the real world feels good anymore. And I hear this from parents. They're like if they're not on the screen, they don't want to do anything else. And it's actually true their their body has become less able to experience pleasure and satisfaction in the real life goods that God has for us to pursue. And so they kind of lack motivation. They have this kind of numbness and this desensitization to pleasure um because their brain has basically gone into this chronic dopamine deficit state.

Um

Ann Wilson: So when I talk to teachers, that's what they talk about. Like the kids aren't motivated. I can't get them excited to do anything. There's this like

Clare Morell: Right. Yep.

Ann Wilson: dullness in their eyes when I'm teaching. They don't seem hungry.

Dave Wilson: Let me is it different then

Ann Wilson: It could that be why?

Clare Morell: No, 100%. It's amazing. So the brain it actually structurally changes over time. It's trying to compensate for all these high dopamine hits that our body wasn't designed for, that are again divorced from these natural rewards that would produce real satisfaction. So they're in this state of constant craving with no satisfaction and their brains become sensitized. We see this in addiction towards that specific stimulus. So it 's like they're craving that screen constantly. It is a constant craving. And at the same time the brain always wants to try to get back to homeostasis. And so it 's reaction to all this high dopamine hits is to decrease its own dopamine production and kind of go below baseline.

And that's what that numbness is. It's this desensitization that their resting state is now this chronic dopamine deficit state where nothing feels good. They have no desire or motivation to do anything other than crave that stimulus of the screen. And that 's why I'm trying to explain to parents that the screen time limits don't work because even just 10 to 15 minutes each day that's 10 to 15 minutes where in this they're in this state of getting constant dopamine hits and then as soon as they leave the app, the brain just plunges into this deficit state and they just constantly crave going back on.

And parents will say yeah, that's my experience. Every time I say up it's time to get off the screen, the child is like, no, I want more time. And it's just they're in this state of constant craving. The time limit will never be enough. And that daily use even if it's limited creates these negative cumulative impacts on the brain over their time where they still become desensitized to real world pleasures.

Ann Wilson: And it's exhausting for the parents.

Clare Morell: And it's so exhausting for the parents. One mom put it this way. She said it's like it's me standing between my underdeveloped child's brain and this drug dispensing machine. It's just it's a losing battle. That's where I'm trying to make these analogies to say when we know something's addictive like we don't put limits on cigarettes. Like we just don't give kids cigarettes. But then good things like Legos or riding your bike like we don't have to limit those things because they're just naturally good for our kids. And so I want parents to shift how they've been approaching screens which I think have largely been kind of put in a category like sugar.

It's bad in in kind of excess, but it's okay in moderation to say no, the way that the screen acts on the brain is more like digital fentanyl. And so we need to just say we cannot give this to our children in any amount because of that addictive effect that's just inherent in its design.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, I speak often around the country at a a men's conference and we have workshops. You know, and I went to one of them and I'm like, what is this digital cocaine workshop?

Clare Morell: Yeah yeah. Oh, it's called that. Well, very fitting.

Dave Wilson: Yeah. And I just looked up who did it. It was uh Brad Huddleston.

Clare Morell: I am.

Dave Wilson: And he literally pulls up brain scans and says, okay, here's what uh brain on cocaine looks like.

Clare Morell: Yes.

Dave Wilson: Here's what a brain And he says, you won't believe this, but here's a brain on social media.

Clare Morell: Here's what a brain on social media looks the same.

Dave Wilson: And it's the same. And here's what he said though. He goes, you can get off of cocaine in 60 days.

Clare Morell: Wow.

Dave Wilson: You can't get off social media brain wise. Like cuz they scan it. Like when's it coming back to normal brain? The two areas he said that take longer You would know this. Guess what he said they were?

Clare Morell: Mhm. When's it coming back to normal? Mhm.

Dave Wilson: Based on brain scans, social media

Clare Morell: Yeah.

Dave Wilson: and pornography.

Clare Morell: Pornography. Yeah.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, he was like pornography does to the brain it's worse than drugs. It's like oh my goodness.

Clare Morell: Yes.

Dave Wilson: But let me ask you this. Is there a difference in a adolescent brain and an adult brain? Cuz I know this. I'm scrolling through Facebook

Clare Morell: Mhm.

Dave Wilson: and the same thing's happening in my brain. Yeah, I'm watching Nate Bargatze and I'm watching him again and I'm watching John Crist and then I'm watching Catch in the NFL. And next thing I know you know I it's hard to turn it off,

Clare Morell: Yeah.

Dave Wilson: but I think I can, but am I able to do it easier than a 13-year-old?

Clare Morell: Yeah, so that is really it's critical that we do distinguish the two cuz I get asked that a lot. Well, what's the difference? Children's brains are still developing which makes them actually more affected by some of these vulnerabilities of the screen mainly because an important part of the brain called our prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until age 25. And that's the part of our brain that's responsible for our self-control, our impulse control, our emotional regulation. And so what happens when kids are on screens is that part of the brain's not fully developed and their reward system, this limbic system in the brain is over stimulated, over active by the screens and it kind of takes over the brain.

And that prefrontal cortex which is supposed to be still developing actually weakens. It's actually undermining kids' ability to develop the exact skill that they need to handle screens maturely which is self-control. And I think any Christian parent will tell you you're always trying to help your child exercise that muscle of self-control and screens are just inherently undermining it. Now on the positive side, kids' brains are still developing. They are more plastic. It's neuroplasticity. It's highly adaptable. And so on the positive side what I talk about in the book is doing a digital detox. If you've already given these screens, it's not too late to reverse course.

It's not too late for anyone. I mean adults benefit from digital detoxes, but particularly for kids we can actually reverse some of these brain impacts where after doing 30 days off of the screens their brain actually can come out of that chronic dopamine deficit state and they they start to experience pleasure in real life again. They can reverse that desensitization. And so that is what has been encouraging to me is to say, you know, parents it's really never too late. If you've already given these things to your kids, their brains are still plastic. And this is the best time like honestly the best time to reverse course um because their brains again can come out of that dopamine deficit state and they start to then enjoy real life pleasures again.

Um so

Dave Wilson: It was it was at this digital cocaine workshop he showed a video of probably a 10 or 11-year-old boy in a fit at the dinner table when his mom said, I'm taking the phone away. And he's like

Clare Morell: Took the screen away. Yeah.

Dave Wilson: he's like angry. It's like scary.

Clare Morell: Yeah, crazy angry. Yes.

Dave Wilson: You know. And so Brad showed this and said, so guess what this mom actually went into a detox and said, we're done with this. And he goes, here's the kid six weeks later.

Clare Morell: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You have to push through that short-term loss. Yes.

Dave Wilson: It was like full of life. He was like a normal kid. You're like this kid has not looked at a screen in six weeks and it's changed who this kid is.

Clare Morell: It's 100% cuz also that prefrontal cortex in the brain is responsible for our personality development. And so it's part of why these kids addicted to these screens seem so flat and kind of numb. Is it really is inhibiting their personality? But you take the screen away. And I always tell parents you have to really commit to doing the 30 days because you're going to get a few days in and you're thinking this is impossible. My kid is begging for the screen back all the time, but it's just like breaking any bad habit. I mean it is addictive.

They will be kind of experiencing the irritability of withdrawal symptoms really. And so you have to push through that pain point. And what these parents said is we kept going. We made it to two weeks and then we realized our kids are not asking for the screens anymore. They're starting to play with each others. They're starting to play outside. Their kind of creativity and imagination is coming back. Their ability to play independently. And so I always tell parents I recognize there are short-term costs. You really have to gear yourself up as a parent, but keep going because then you get to 30 days or six weeks and you see these changes in your child that I think most parents would say I never thought that would be possible.

I couldn't imagine dealing with this child without the screen because it does. It has this calming, numbing effect. And so in the moment it just feels so easy to give the iPad back to the kids so that they'll be quiet.

Ann Wilson: And it gives the Yeah, the parents get a little break.

Clare Morell: And it gives the parents a break. And so I just tell parents like embrace those short-term costs for these long-term gains and benefits that you will see develop in your child. The sooner the better that you can start a detox and reverse course, but don't give up when it gets hard. That is normal. Like there's nothing wrong. That is just the detox having its effect. The screens effects are working their way out of that child's brain, but keep going and you'll experience these results where you're like I just didn't even know these things about my kid.

Like they have these interests, this personality. It really improves the parent-child relationship.

Dave Wilson: I mean I'm thinking parents right now are like, okay, okay, I'm doing this. Where do I get the book?

Ann Wilson: Yes. You can get her book The Tech Exit, a practical guide to freeing kids and teens from smartphones. And again her name's Claire Morell. You can just go to familylifetoday.com and click the link in the show notes.

Dave Wilson: We meet a ton of couples who say family life helped them when they needed it the most. And that's what being a family life partner is all about, helping others find that same encouragement and tools that you found right here.

Ann Wilson: And we'd love for you to join us. So click the donate button at familylifetoday.com and become a partner today.

Dave Wilson: And let me just say this. If you need parenting help, we would love to help you. We have a site just for you, familylife.com/parentinghelp.

Ann Wilson: Family Life Today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a Cru ministry. 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.