FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

I think we all are very familiar with the verse that says, "I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. But what we don't think through is he doesn't say, "I'm going to let you know the plans I have for you." Right? He says, "I know them."

And if we really know who he is, if we really spent the time and we've invested in fostering a relationship with him, searching for him like hidden treasure, right? If we've done those things, then when he says, "I know the plans I have for you," that's enough.

Speaker 2

Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us@familylife today.com. this is Family Life Today.

Speaker 2

So today we get to ask some questions. And there's nobody on the planet ask better questions than you.

Speaker 3

Why would you say that?

Speaker 2

Well, there is one person asks better questions than you. His name is Jesus. But no, seriously, there's no one like you.

Speaker 3

That's nice.

Speaker 2

Whether it's in an airport with a total stranger or people in our neighborhood or friends come over, you are not about you. You are about them. And you ask questions and you draw them out.

Speaker 3

I think that's one of the reasons we're so drawn to this Bible study that we're going to talk about today.

Speaker 2

Yeah. What is it?

Speaker 3

It's called Untangling Faith, Reclaiming Hope in the questions Jesus asked. And we have Amberly Neese with us today.

Speaker 1

Yes. And I'm so excited to be here, but I want to just take a minute. That is high praise to say that somebody is a good question asker.

Speaker 3

It was sweet of him to say.

Speaker 1

That was very, very kind. So I don't know how many husband points he gets, but he deserves. He always points I should get 50. Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 2

Well, Amberly, we're going to talk about untangling faith. And I set that up because so much of this book's about the questions that Jesus asked. But before we get there, you travel the country and do what? I know you do humor, but what else?

Speaker 1

So I do women's retreats. I definitely. I'm a speaker, but I tour with two national tours with Comedy Aspire Women's Events and the marriage date night tour. I'm able to share comedy and laughter with couples and ladies, and I love doing that. Hopefully, they see Jesus in all of that.

But I also love doing women's retreats and diving into God's word with ladies. That's such a blessing.

Speaker 3

And you love Bible study, you love teaching, you love digging into the scri.

Speaker 1

I do, I do, I do. And I did not think that that was gonna be my jam. I mean, like, I loved God's word, but at least when I was young, the ladies in my life that could do that, I just like, oh, you know, like there's no way I could ever do that.

And fortunately, God uses the ill equipped and does great things despite them. So I'm excited about that.

Speaker 3

Share with our listeners. The first time you started teaching.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Because it wasn't something you were anticipating.

Speaker 1

No, no. So when Scott and I were first married, our very first call was like two weeks after we got married. We got called to a church in Garden Grove, California, and they wanted to put a women's retreat together. They asked me if I would be willing to do it, and I thought, I'm not sure I'm up for the task. They said, that's okay, we don't have anything to pay you, so you'll be worth whatever we’re gonna pay you, which is zippity von dooda.

I loved it. I loved diving into God's word and looking at a particular topic. I loved really doing some deep diving. The whole process was so fantastic. At the end of the weekend, I came home and I was so emotional. It was such a gift. I know that's shocking; sometimes women's retreats just give a little bit of Jesus and a lot of tissues because we do have a tendency to get emotional. But I came home and I just told him I was really overwhelmed. I tried to articulate what I was feeling and said, you know, like, did you ever watch Chariots of Fire when Eric Liddell says when he runs, he feels God's pleasure?

My husband's like, do you want to start running? And I'm like, no. Oh my goodness, no. Get behind me, Satan. No. That is not what I want to do. I said, but I felt like I was doing what God wanted me to do, that I was in the right place in the universe. He said, well, how can I help? And I said, I don't know. I don't even know where to get started.

Speaker 3

How sweet of him to ask that question. How can I help?

Speaker 2

That got him some points.

Speaker 1

Zillion, zillions of points. I mean, I feel really thankful. I really feel so fortunate that my husband is as clear about my call as I Am. And my kids as well. And so I feel really, really thankful for that.

Speaker 3

Why this Bible study? When you say reclaiming hope in the questions Jesus asked.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

What's that mean?

Speaker 1

I have lots of people in my life who are deconstructing their faith. I have lots of friends who are loving their kids and grandkids through jumping off of the faith bus. I mean, they just are really struggling. And I wanted to practically look at what that looks like and how to give hope to people when it comes to that.

So most Bible studies that I've encountered are written for the sweet church lady who needs encouragement and, you know, hope in her heart and all those things. But I wanted to write a study for those who are saying, "I am beseeching the Lord on behalf of somebody who's struggling or who's leaving the faith, who's struggling in their faith or leaving their faith." I want practical, tactile things that I can do to provide hope.

In all of my studies, I look from a certain vantage point, and this one is unlike any of them. The six-week study features a different question that Jesus asked every single day—not an answer like, "tie it up in a pretty little bow and everybody's happy." There’s no soundtrack that begins, and we don’t break into Oklahoma halfway through the study. It is an unpacking of the questions Jesus asked. Interestingly, Jesus really only answered straight out two questions in the Bible. The rest, he often would respond to a question with a question.

Speaker 3

And God did the same in the Old Testament.

Speaker 1

Totally over 300 questions in the New Testament that Jesus asked. And what I think is interesting about that is that we teach kids to be like Jesus in so many ways. Like, this is how you deal with people, and this is how you handle this, and this is how you do whatever.

But we rarely give them permission to ask questions and to embrace the power of what those can be. Questions can be holy beginnings of journeys.

Speaker 2

Hey, before we keep going, let me just say this to the listener.

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Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

Yes, it is.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

What's one of the questions that Jesus asked that you just tugged at your heart, that you're like, oh, yeah, this is so good that he asked this question.

Speaker 1

I loved studying "Who Do You Say That I Am?" which sounds silly, especially for those of us who are believers and know who Jesus is. However, it was really profound for me. Actually, the week that I was writing that particular chapter, I had gone into the dermatologist. My dad died of skin cancer when he was 51, and my sister had major skin cancer surgery. It looks like she has a shark bite on the back of her leg from when she was in her early 40s.

I went in, and usually my dermatologist is wonderful and does the scan without any issues. But this time, he said there were some places he was really concerned about. So, there were about nine days— for whatever reason, that's how long it took. In those nine days, I kept hearing that question: "Well, who do you say that I am?" You'd think that they're unrelated, but do I believe that he's Jehovah Jireh? Do I believe he's the provider? Do I believe he's the healer? Do I believe he is the God who works all things for good to those who love him and are called according to his purpose?

Do I really believe? Who do you say that I am? I would say with my mouth, "I mean, goodness knows, I travel the nation, I tell people that Jesus is Lord," right? And he is. But when it comes right down to it, when there are questions in my mind—when my mind was riddled with thoughts like, "You're gonna have cancer," "How are your kids gonna respond if you have cancer?" "What's gonna happen to your husband?" "What, financially, are you guys going to do?"—I recognized that even though I'd been a believer for a long time, I still had some unresolved issues when it came to who I really say that he is.

And not just with my mouth, but with my life. What does my life say that he is? Does my life say, "Oh, yeah, she trusts"?

Speaker 3

What happened with the cancer? What was the diagnosis?

Speaker 1

The cancer was that it's fine and all things were good, that there's still things that we need to watch.

But more thrilling to me than the diagnosis that things were okay was the journey that I took in those nine days of really figuring out, really being honest with God about my areas that I'm still holding onto, thinking I'm in control.

That I'm large and in charge is what we used to say with our kids.

Speaker 3

Well, it's interesting because just last spring, I had had a mole removed, and I asked the doctor, will you please take this off? I know you said it's fine in the past, but I would just like you to take it off. And so we were here recording, and we were having lunch with a guest, and I got a call from my doctor. I said, hey, I'm going to step out. I need to get this. And she said, hey, I. So that diagnosis showed that you have melanoma.

I remember that night in bed, just asking, God, are you here? Do you see this? I know you do. I know you do. Lord, I know spiritually, biblically, theologically that you are with me. But, Lord, sometimes I need to be reminded. It's almost like John the Baptist saying, I know you're the one, but are you the one? That kind of thing.

And it's so crazy because a couple of days later, I went over to talk to my neighbor because we were going to go out of town, and he said, he's this great older man, probably in his 80s. He says, Anne, Anne, he's Polish. I need to show you this. Come, come, come, come. And I said, what's up?

And he said, I need to show you what happened last night. I said, oh, what happened? And he gets out his phone, and he, you know, he's trying to find the picture, and he's having trouble finding it. And he said, last night I woke up like three in the morning. He said, and I couldn't sleep. And out. And I see your house, and I see this angel or Jesus or the Holy Spirit. He goes, I don't know what it was, but I took a picture of it. And he goes, oh, here it is. And he shows me, and I'm like, what in the world? Did you Photoshop this? What is this?

Speaker 1

He goes, if he can't figure out his phone, I don't think he's photoshopping. Let's be honest.

Speaker 3

What's Photoshopping? And I said, will you send this to me? He said, I don't know how to do that. So I sent it to myself and I showed Dave.

And, you know, everybody can say, like, whatever, it's just the clouds. But I'm telling you, this thing to me was like, you guys can say, it's nothing, it's something. But I'm going to tell you, for me, that just was all I needed.

Like, hey, Ann, I wrote this dude up across the street. Let him see this thing. He took a picture with his phone. So you can be skeptical, but for me, I knew it in my head.

But just that sweet, loving kindness of God saying, I'm with you. I'm with you in this.

Speaker 1

And who do you say that I am?

Speaker 3

Who say that I am?

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 3

You are the God who sees and hears.

Speaker 1

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2

I mean, what would your response have been if the melanoma came back? Not good. I mean, I think I know, but I just literally preached the Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego story a couple weeks ago. And you know where they say to King Nebuchadnezzar, we will not bow down to your idol, right? And if you throw us in the fire, our God will. They say will not. Maybe they say, will deliver us, but if he does not, we still will.

So they had that. Well, he might not. Maybe his plan is, we die and go to heaven. It's a promotion. You gotta love that phrase. But even if he doesn't, I'm not gonna submit. Your story turned out well.

Do you know what you would have thought if? Okay, you're sitting here today, so it's...

Speaker 1

Super easy for me to say at this point, right? There are times that things don't work out beautifully. I mean, again, our story includes nine years of infertility. We could get pregnant; we just couldn't stay pregnant. And I will tell you that sometimes I felt like, oh, yeah, nope, my faith is in a good place. And then tragedy would strike, and I would realize, nope, I still have some growing to do.

And so I would hope that I would just give him praise. I would hope that I would look like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and say, oh, yes, absolutely. But let's be honest. I am imperfect, and I can't even stand the heat of Arizona sometimes, much less the heat of a fiery furnace. But I would hope that I would give him praise.

I mean, I love. I think we all are very familiar with the verse that says, "I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord, right? But what we don't think through is he doesn't say, "I'm gonna let you know the plans I have for you." Right? He says, "I know them." And if we really know who he is, if we really spent the time and we've invested in fostering a relationship with him, searching for him like hidden treasure, right? If we've done those things, then when he says, "I know the plan," that's enough.

Right? And we can be satisfied in that because we're trusting less in ourselves and trusting more in the character of who he is. And so I would like to say that I would find joy in all of it. I got on a flight one time, and there was a lady who was late getting on the flight, and she was, I'm a big girl, but she was a big girl, too. And she was struggling to make her way through the very narrow aisle, and she's doing whatever, but every time she would bump somebody, she would say, "It's all joy. It's all joy. It's all joy."

And wouldn't you know, she sits across from me. And I said, for her, you know, I'm thinking to myself, like, doesn't she know the term is "it's all good?"

Speaker 3

Right?

Speaker 1

That was when "it's all good" was a thing. And then the more I thought about it, I was like, no, consider it pure joy. My brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds. Cause, you know, the testimony of your faith develops perseverance. She was literally saying, this feels like a little trial. But it's all joy.

And my hope was that I would respond with, even when the cancer comes back positive, it's all joy, right? Because I know who God is. And when he says, "Who do you say that I am?" that I can say with confidence, you are God, who has proven himself so worthwhile.

I love the ministry that you all have to marry couples. And I'm going to share my favorite marriage tool. You ready for this? Here it is.

Speaker 2

Your favorite marriage tool.

Speaker 1

Marriage tool ever. In our 31 years of marriage, which I know for some people, I always think it's funny when you meet other couples and that there's a competition.

Like, even with believers, this is holy competition. Oh, only 31 years. That's adorable. We've been married 43 or whatever it happens to be.

Speaker 2

Hey, she just said our exact number.

Speaker 1

There you go. I love it. She just got us is an Ebenezer. So in our early marriage, you know, the Old Testament, Ebenezer, where God would do something great and he would say, I want you to build an altar, and I want you to call it God is great. Give him chocolate cake or whatever the new. Whatever the message version says. But anyway, he would say, I want you to build an altar for this. And it was a blessing as the people would come and go.

Well, Scott and I very early on, especially when things were really tight financially, we started an Ebenezer. Now, it didn't look like the Old Testament thing. It looked like a charger plate that we'd gotten for our wedding that we never used. Right. The charger plate is the one that I always feel like that's the one I want to eat off of, but I want to, you know, practice some self-control. So I'll use the smaller plate, but the charger plate and a hurricane lamp and a candle and rocks from the dollar store.

Every time God did something great, we would take the rocks from outside of the hurricane, we'd write on it, put the date, and then we'd put them inside. What we found is it was really hard to feel sorry for ourselves when we were able to see God's hand in every day. At the end of the year, we'd pull it out and we'd say, oh, this is when you got out of that traffic ticket. Or this is when God provided when we didn't think it was possible. You know, we'd get a deposit for something that we did not even see coming.

We just kept looking at the faithfulness of God, and it was transformative for our marriage. Because again, it's really easy as humans to feel sorry for ourselves or to get self-absorbed. It's really hard to stay self-absorbed when you're looking at God's provision every day. In those first couple of years of marriage, that's what it felt like. It literally felt like manna every single day. And that's been huge.

We've done it with our kids; we've done it as a family for years, but for us, it's been so huge. When God asks us, who do you say that I am? He's proven himself so faithful. And again, even if the bill doesn't get paid, even if the check doesn't get signed, even if the whatever, he's still God. When he says, who do you say that I am? I can say with confidence all these years later, you are the God who loves me and sees me and works in my best interest and knows that I'm your workmanship because you've created me.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think it's interesting what you're saying because you're talking about that Ebenezer being with your husband. And you know, I'm preaching a sermon a few weeks ago on Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. And honestly, I preached something like that 20 years ago. It didn't hit me till this time that in that story, you never hear of Shadrach, Meshach, or Abednego alone. The entire narrative, from beginning to end, shows that they're always together.

So you think, is there something about community? When you have to answer that question, "Who do you say I am?" We already talked about your other project, the Belonging Project, which is all about community. I think when we struggle, like a lot of people who deconstruct or deconvert, they're often alone. Who's walking beside them to help answer that question?

Because I'm struggling right now to remember who Jesus really is. Your spouse, your child, or a friend can walk beside you and say, "I've been there, dude. Let's talk and answer these questions together." That's so critical, I was going to say.

Speaker 1

And I think that is a glorious tidbit that the Holy Spirit gave you. That is so good.

The grocery store that's closest to us. Recently, I had some kind of return that I needed to make, which I'm not God's most patient child. I'm just gonna be really honest.

And so I'm waiting in line, and there are, like, five or six people ahead of me, and I found myself, like, making up songs to try to pass the time. I'm looking at these items on the side. These, like, impulse items. I don't need. I don't need another charger. For the love of all that's holy. I do not need it. But I'm looking. I'm just trying to pass the time. I'm scrolling through social media. I'm doing whatever.

It just seems like forever, and I'm finally, like, one person away. You know, there's one person ahead of me, and I'm start, like, get hopeful. I'm like, one person. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You know, I'm doing all the hand motions. I'm gonna make it.

And all of a sudden, I did not hear what the person asked, but the person behind the customer service desk said, you know what? I'm not sure. Let's figure it out together. So she leaves the booth, and I found myself going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3

Don't go away.

Speaker 1

And then the more I thought about it, I thought, oh, that's such a glorious way to look at it. You know what? I'm not totally sure. Let's figure it out together.

And I think you're right. I think when people are struggling spiritually, I think the most glorious thing that we can say to them besides God is good, right? Is let's figure it out together, right? Let's journey together.

And she could have just pointed her to aisle 13, but she didn't. She could have passed her off to somebody else, but she didn't. She left the comfort of her booth, and she walked alongside this person who was struggling.

And I think the community is the key. So I'm so glad that you got that take from that teaching. So good, pal.

Speaker 2

I even thought, would Shadrach have stood by himself? Would Meshach? I have no idea.

Speaker 1

I don't know.

Speaker 2

But we know they did together.

Speaker 1

I know.

Speaker 3

I love that there's something, too, about being in community, like, even a small group when you have women of all different ages in the group.

I was in a group just last week at a table of 10, and we were just talking. There were a lot of young moms with, you know, toddlers.

Those are the hardest years for your marriage.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Oh, you bet.

Speaker 3

You're dying on the vine, you know, and you're so many sleep deprived and you're working, and you just think, I'm doing everything as a mom and wife, and my husband. It's really easy to start looking at the negative in your husband and in your life. I used to do that. I used to think, do I even have a life anymore? And I'd have a pity party. And then I'm the martyr.

As women, we were talking about the stages, and this one young mom was talking about how hard it is, how her husband doesn't see her, how her husband doesn't care. An older woman who had grandkids said, "Oh, honey, like, I look at you, and when I look at you, I'm like, wow, this girl's amazing." She just started talking about all these wonderful attributes this young woman had.

She said, "I'm watching you as a mom. You're pretty incredible. I watched you parent the other day at church, and I thought, this girl, she's got it going on. And your husband, the way he looks at you, he adores you." I watched this young woman, and her whole demeanor started to change as a reminder of all God's goodness, the things that she could be thankful for, as you said, the Ebenezers.

But also, sometimes we can't see it when we're in the pit. Oh, so true. You know, someone else has to point out, like, no, there are some good things in the pit. Look around.

Speaker 1

Exactly, Exactly.

Speaker 3

But I love that thought of one God always sees.

And to ask him to tell him the truth of when you're struggling.

Lord, I'm struggling. Oh, you bet. I can't do this. I don't know if you see me and I'm struggling.

Put people around me and put yourself in positions where women can speak life and hope to you.

Speaker 1

Absolutely, absolutely. And I know men need it too. Yes, they, absolutely. They need it a little bit differently. Like, I think it's so interesting that.

Speaker 2

Are you going to tell us what men need?

Speaker 3

Yeah, I want to hear it.

Speaker 1

Bring it. I just think it's interesting that female babies make eye contact three months earlier than their male counterparts. Oftentimes when I say to my husband, "Are you listening to me?" it's because he's not making eye contact with me. He's hearing everything; he can regurgitate verbatim what I just said. But I think, oh, he's not listening to me because he's not looking at me.

Women often connect with each other by looking each other in the eyeball, while guys—at least the gentlemen in my life, like my husband, my son, and our other friends—connect best when it's ear to ear. They engage when they're driving in the car, working on stuff together, or doing whatever. They don't have to have that eyeball-to-eyeball connection. But I truly believe it's kind of a superpower of both genders.

Speaker 3

Me too.

Speaker 1

To be able to connect like that. It just looks different for men than it does for women. For us, we don't need an excuse if the day ends with a Y. It's time to connect.

Right, guys need a little bit different motivation. But so thankful for the power of that community that it can provide to encourage one another for sure.

Speaker 3

I always love talking to Amberly Neese.

Speaker 2

Yeah, why is that?

Speaker 3

She's wise. She gives us practical things and she loves Jesus. Who doesn't love that?

Speaker 2

Yeah, hopefully you loved it as well.

And she's created a video-driven small group called Untangling Faith. This is a small group study about reclaiming the hope in the questions Jesus asked.

You can find the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com. I really think one of...

Speaker 3

The greatest passions of my life is growing spiritually stronger, going deeper, learning more, and connecting to Jesus more.

And maybe you feel like that too, like you just want more, you want to learn more, you want to grow, and you want to go deeper.

And you can by going to familylife.com/strongerfaith. We've got resources there that can help you grow in your faith.

So go again to familylife.com/strongerfaith.

Speaker 2

Family Life today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.