FamilyLife Today®

Peter Mutabazi: I never yell at my kids. I get to their level and say, "Son, tell me, what's the matter?" and be able to look in your eyes. They would tell you because you're not threatening, but also you're in a posture of, "I'm here."

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

So we have Peter Mutabazi back with us today.

Dave Wilson: You like saying that word? Mutabazi?

Ann Wilson: I think you like saying it.

Dave Wilson: I think it's cool. I should have written a song. Mutabazi, Mutabazi. Anyway, he's going to give us some tips on parenting, foster parenting. He's really good, and his story is so unique. I just needed it as a reminder of calming down.

Dave Wilson: You're going to learn a lot of lessons on how to be a good parent today. So let's go.

Looking at some of these lessons, we could do any and all of these, but how about "Parenting will expose your scars"? What does that mean?

Peter Mutabazi: It means that we all have them, even those who've had the best family. Think about if you had the best family background; that's who you are. You're treated well. If things went wrong, things were done so well. But now you're parenting a child that is the opposite of where you come from.

The way it triggers is because your expectation of how you should be treated is what you're going to bring to this child. "My mother would never talk to me that way. No one has ever talked to me." Well, it opens the scar of your well-childhood upbringing, and now it's bringing it because someone messed it up. So your other is triggering the behaviors of this child.

Instead, be aware. Look at your past and always say, "What am I going to bring from my childhood into my parenting style?" Being aware of that at all times really helps you. Sometimes we parents get angry, but if you could pause yourself and say, "But why am I angry? Why did this kid saying this word take me off? Or when I asked this kid to do something but they didn't, why did I feel that way?"

When you go back, you get to know there's a scar, there's a wound. And so for us as parents, when we step back and say, "Why does that push my button?" it really helps you to go back and heal yourself in those places or really deal with yourself first.

Ann Wilson: So did you find any of those? Tell me everything. Because I'm sitting here thinking you had a horrible background. You went to school, but I don't know if you had a chance to heal some of your wounds. So when they popped up or flared up by somebody's behavior, what did you do with that, and what should a parent do with that?

Peter Mutabazi: For me, it's even as simple as throwing the food. You feed the kids; they eat half and throw it away. To me, remember, I come from—"No food? Like, you're throwing away food? Are you serious?"

Dave Wilson: Did you do what your mom did? "You are not leaving the table until all that food is—" And you sit there. Or some kids, they will say, "You know kids in Africa are starving?"

Ann Wilson: And you could say, "I was starving!"

Peter Mutabazi: For me, being aware of that—of the waste that I did not have—to this day, I get to remind myself, "Peter, you grew up with a lack of food. My child did not. So I should not expect my child to have the same feeling or the same attitude as I have towards food."

So that helps me. It helps me to step back. "Sure, you didn't finish? Fine." Otherwise, the next thing I would say is, "You put it in the fridge; you eat it later," or be a little snippy towards my child because, "Hey, you didn't finish your food. Sit there." But by me being aware—it's the whole thing of you being aware and attending to that awareness—it helps you to step back and be there for your child. So for me, it doesn't bother me if they don't finish food. Absolutely.

Dave Wilson: How important is it to get on the knee, get to their level?

Peter Mutabazi: Meet them where they are. And meeting children where they are isn't just by the words but even the level. I never yell at my kids. I get to their level and say, "Son, tell me, what's the matter?" and be able to look in your eyes. They would tell you because you're not threatening, but also you're in a posture of, "I'm here."

Dave Wilson: That's good. I remember years ago—40 years ago—a teacher named Gary Smalley. His son now, Greg, is with Focus on the Family. But Gary Smalley talked about when you're in marriage—and this would be parenting as well—when you are dealing with a spouse or a son or daughter that has what he called a closed spirit.

Their spirit is closed up. They're not responding to you; they're turning away from you. They feel they've been hurt by you, or something's happened in your marriage. He said the first step to opening—and he'd use his hand like this—to opening a closed spirit, he said, "Get low. Get below them."

If they're sitting in a chair, get on the floor. If you're going to approach your wife and you want to open her spirit to talk, don't stand above. Don't be powerful; be humble. That's what you did. I mean, it's the same with a child. It's like it says to them, "You're really important. You're so important, I'm lowering myself to your eye level to see you and sort of open your soul," isn't it?

Peter Mutabazi: Absolutely. And you're removing authority, being authoritative. You're just coming to, "I'm here with you." And somehow it works. They always feel safe. They always feel better.

Dave Wilson: Anyway, husbands, that was for free. That one was for free. Try that tonight.

Ann Wilson: It's with our kids and with your teenagers when they're powering up. I remember when our first son—when he would power up, I would be right there with him. I'm short, but I'll power up big.

Dave Wilson: One time I walked in and she says, "You want to go? You want to go?" I'm like, "What is happening right here?"

Ann Wilson: I didn't mean physically. I just meant, "You want to talk about this?" But yes, I get riled up. And I should have been asking myself the question, "Why do I do that?" And I think as parents, whether we're fostering, adopting—any kind of parent, stepparents—we should be asking ourselves, "Why did that trigger me? Why do I want to respond in this certain way? Instead of getting low, I get even bigger."

And I think the stories that you've shared—each one has just made me cry because it's not about the behavior; it's about what's going on inside that has happened. And I think our kids hold on to so much trauma. They hold on to so much stress and anxiety, even at school. All of our kids. And we're so bent on looking at what they are or aren't doing, or how well they're doing in school or not, or obeying or not. And to get underneath the surface—I just love how you put your head on your hand and you say, "What's going on? I love you. I'm with you." If my parents would have done that when I was little, I'd probably just cry on the spot and spill my guts: "All these things are happening!"

Peter Mutabazi: That's what always happens. My daughter, they will be like, "Okay, okay." And here's the other part. This is more to divorced families, kids who are living from one end to the other.

Ann Wilson: Yes.

Peter Mutabazi: Here's what I would like to say. It's easy to have our kids come from the other family and come home, and you get to see the attitude. And you take it personal and say, "How dare that?" It's easy to project, it's easy to bring our feelings to what our kids are going through.

Sometimes it's good to step back and say, "My kid is—wherever they're coming from, the other family—I have no idea. I wasn't there. I wasn't there, and I'm going to step back and not be involved by letting my child just be." And here's the thing. We are the safest place they can be. Let's not make it a place where they feel unsafe by bringing our past, but also by an attitude of not listening. But really coming along and saying, "Validate. I know what you're feeling. How can I be of help? I'm here to listen when you're ready."

Ann Wilson: How do you do that, though? You have six kids. How are you doing that with all these kids?

Peter Mutabazi: Each differently. So I have two that do visitation. That means every Tuesday and Thursday, they're different behaviors at home because these kids just went to Mom and they came back with different behavior. Or sometimes Mom didn't show up. That's a whole different behavior. So you get to learn what triggers them or what mood they're in or what really caused the whole thing.

The empathy helps us to really get to see each child individually because we get to understand the why. Here's what I've learned. My kids will fuel or spill out because I am the safest place for them to be. They won't do it somewhere else at school. But in my home. So don't take it personally. Also know like, actually, sometimes those behaviors we see or the outrage is a sign of safety. It's a sign of, "I'm in a safe place; I can truly let my feelings out." So sometimes it's a positive way that we get to let them let it out, but we get to hear them too. But it's never really about us.

Dave Wilson: We need to have your kids come on next time. I know! That'd be fun. I would literally love to hear their perspective on everything you're saying because it would be cool to hear from their side.

Ann Wilson: Well, I'm still stuck on "Your kids come home and they vent because this is the safest place." Talk to the parents for whom that just was a light bulb. Like, "My kids come home. My teachers say they're incredible, they're so great at school. And then they come home and I'm like, 'Who are these children? They're terrible. How could the teacher say that?'" You're saying maybe this is the safe place that they can let all the emotions out.

Peter Mutabazi: Absolutely. It's not even a maybe; it's the fact. So you two are married. Most times you vent properly when you've had an attitude with someone over there once you come to him because he's your safest place and the person you can let out what you're feeling. But you won't do it the other end. So why do we feel the children cannot do the same?

Ann Wilson: Because they're mean when they do it! And they don't say, "I had this terrible day and this teacher was mean."

Peter Mutabazi: Absolutely. But you're supposed to be the mature one. Exactly. You are supposed to be the one to come down, meet your child where they are. It's not their responsibility to come down; it is us as parents. And we get to help them. I've had teachers who say, "We get to have kids and you call the parent, and the parent shows up." You're like, "Oh, now I get that." And we don't want to be that parent. On the other side, we want to be the other parent where my child comes and says, "It's at home where I can do that because I feel safe and I feel comfortable." And sometimes they're yelling for help. They're yelling for help.

Dave Wilson: You come across pretty calm and collected. You ever lose it?

Peter Mutabazi: No, I never lose it.

Dave Wilson: Never?

Peter Mutabazi: Never. Because I saw how my father—sometimes it's even a problem. People are like, "We can never tell where you are because you're so calm."

Dave Wilson: And that's because of your dad, you think?

Peter Mutabazi: Yes, I learned the behaviors to not let the behaviors decide what you're going to do or say. Also, my mom would always say, "10% happened to you; 90% is how you respond to that 10%." That really helped me. Like, how I respond, that I have control. But also that is my decision. But what happened to me was small, in a way, that has helped me to just be calm and listen.

I never had the opportunity to be heard as a kid. My one tool right now, my one tool in life, is to listen to others, to let others tell you what they feel, to let others in whatever way it comes to really let them be because I could never say even, "Can I have water?" I could never say, "I'm tired." I could never say, "I don't know."

If my dad said, "Where is my socks?" if I said, "I don't know," I got beatings. If I said, "I know," but I don't know, I'm going to get beatings. So there wasn't anyway I could win in some way. And so for me, it became a tool to friends, to people I work with. Let them be and listen. And there's a humbling sense when you listen to others, even when you don't like it; they're able to listen and hear to find the best way to.

Dave Wilson: A lot of couples are giving marriage whatever time and energy is left after work, kids, and everything else, and it's starting to take a toll. I bet a lot of you can relate to that.

Ann Wilson: I can. And many are growing spiritually as individuals, but they're not connecting spiritually as a couple.

Dave Wilson: As a pastor or leader, you see this tension and it can feel overwhelming trying to know what to do next. You don't have to figure it out alone. We've built some simple tools to help you take that very first step.

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Dave Wilson: Let me tell you, strong families don't happen by accident. Sometimes all it takes is one intentional step to help couples reconnect again.

Your dad pounded you with lies and things about your character and who you were constantly. How did you get that out of your head?

Peter Mutabazi: Well, so it even became worse because even that's how the other people treated you. So you heard it from both ends. And I believed it; I believed every word—that I was stupid, would never mount to anything at all. It's until this stranger, this guy—I don't know why, but his unconditional love. He never shared with me the Gospel. He always showed up. He always showed up. Always. By him showing up all the time.

And for me to come from living in the garbage in the sewer, being abused every night, for someone to see the best in me and put me in a school—I felt like there was nothing in me, nothing good at all, that I deserved to be where I was put. And that's really what really helped me, that I was worthy. I never had words of affirmation until I moved with this family: "Peter, you matter." And sometimes I would say, "What does that mean?" And they said, "You're as special as my kids are," or sometimes they would say, "You're a gift to us." And I'm saying, "But how can I be a gift? I'm a burden to you." And they would say, "Peter, you show me how God loves me by you allowing to be in our lives." And those are the things that truly began to change my life, that helped me understand that I was worthy.

I don't know if I shared with you last time I was here; there's one thing he did to this day that I still remember. So in Africa, most people didn't have cars during my time. Now there's lots of them. But usually, the man drives, and the wife sits on the other seat, and the kids in the middle, and then everyone else in the back. So this day, the wife was not there. And so he looked at me and said, "Peter, you can sit in Cecilia's seat." I said, "No, I can't sit there. I'm not worthy sitting there." And then he looked at me and said, "Peter, you're worth. You matter. You can sit there."

And that's all it took. That's all it took, that I could sit in the seat of his wife. To him, it was just a seat, for sure. But for me, I never thought I was worthy sitting in places where he put me. And that really helped me to build my self to know that truly God loves me no matter what. And that is what has helped me to excel, to really remove the—and they come sometimes, those sounds of "You'll never mount to anything." But rather they became the power to me. So for me, you say, "You can't?" It's like, a "Do it!" to really challenge myself, but also tell whatever I hear in my head to say, "No, that's not—that's not true. I can do it."

Dave Wilson: It's amazing to watch you tell that story and just sense the power of the words of value on a young boy that you tear up decades later. You know, you think even as a parent when we miss those moments to reach into our son or daughter's life and say a word like that—don't miss that moment. Grab it. Whether you put them in the front seat or just say, "You matter." We don't think they may talk about that 30 years from now because it's that powerful that God has given us His voice to say, "I can say to my son or daughter or to a boy off the street something God is saying to him every day and he doesn't know it. I get to be the voice of God to them." That's powerful.

Ann Wilson: Well, and I can't stop crying because I look at you and I talk to so many parents that have lost hope for their kids because their kids are struggling so much, because they feel like as a parent they have failed their child, or they've yelled or they've said mean things. And I look at you and I think look how God always had His hand on you. He was always calling your name. He used another person to show Himself to you. But we get to do that. And I think as parents, it's never too late. Never too late to stop praying for your kids, to apologize to our kids for the things that we have maybe lacked or done or not done.

And also, the other thing I'm thinking of is all these kids that are in foster care that have been abused, that have been forgotten, that have so much trauma in their lives. And we as a church and a people can step into some of these roles that are really hard. But now there's a book that can help them. Talk to those people—of just maybe somebody's on the fence, like, "Should we do foster care? Should we enter into that? It sounds like it's rough."

Peter Mutabazi: The honesty is, it is rough. But here's where I find the posture. My Jesus didn't come on earth and live a comfortable life, pursued the comfortable life. He lived a life that was exemplary. But also that he's taught us that we suffer for Him, we love Him. And that's what it takes to be a foster parent or an adoptive parent. That it's not easy. But it's worth it. Why? Because we're doing it for Jesus, not for kids or ourselves.

And for me as an American now, in my walk as an American, they always tell me convenience: "Are you saving money so you retire well? Like, the happy, easy life" is what I'm pounded with all the time. But looking in the Bible, that's not—that's not the life, the journey that God is calling me. Sacrifice means uncomfortableness. Sacrifice means things you don't like. Sacrifice means loving the people that don't look like you, don't act like you, have zero background like you. That is what sacrifice is. And if we're willing to follow that and love on our kids, one day we get to meet Jesus and say, "You gave me an extra bedroom; this is what I used it for. You gave me a good job; I got to make money; this is what I used it for. You raised me in a good family; now I get to be the opposite to the child who never had a family. Good faithful servant. I had a difficult childhood, God, but look, You changed me and I get to be the base for those who have gone through because I understand it. Good and faithful servant."

He's what he's asking us. Not simple things. Not easy things. Not things that will—yes, it's things that will inconvenience our lives that we go to sacrifice for. And that's parenting, and that's loving, and that's being there for our kids. And that's what foster care is. Truly. It's a temporary journey saying, "God, these parents are struggling, but I'm willing to step in for those You love the most, to be there for them as their mom and dad, figure their lives out." And if that doesn't come to the end, I want to be their dad, their mom, as much as I can go.

And if there are some ladies and men who are not married yet but they are waiting for that special one—for me, yes, I want to get married. But also I've chosen to say, "While I'm waiting, I'm going to be there for these kids." I've had my kids; they've never said, "I wish we had a mom." They never had the dad. Sometimes God will use us where we are. The tradition says, "Get married," but I think there's also an opportunity to be a mom, a dad, while you're waiting for that opportunity. It can be also temporary; you could be just a foster parent for a short time, and then down the road God will bring someone who has a passion and loving that will come alongside what we would like to do in life.

Ann Wilson: I feel like this book is unusual, and we've needed a book like this. Again, the book is called Love Does Not Conquer All and Other Surprising Lessons I Learned as a Foster Dad to More Than 40 Kids by Peter Mutabazi.

Dave Wilson: Well, I know for Ann and me, probably two of the most significant moments in our entire life were when our son adopted his two foster boys that he fostered that were brothers at two different times because the second boy came after they told them the birth mother will never have another child. And then they get a call a couple of years later and say, "She had one, and you've got a couple of hours to decide if you want—"

Peter Mutabazi: No, it was like 15 minutes to decide. That's how I have three of their siblings. Boom!

Dave Wilson: Yes, and so sitting in that courtroom when the judge said they're a Wilson, you know, it was just so powerful because we know—the little boys don't know what their life would have been. We know what they would have been. And to see that they have a totally different life. That's us. We are adopted to a brand new life in Jesus. And the thing about even your family—just like 10 years ago, that wasn't even somewhere close. Right! But when we are obedient and willing on how far the Lord will take us. Not always easy. But what a joy that we get to step up for the most vulnerable.

Peter Mutabazi: And they've made our family so much better and enriched. I'm sure. I saw that picture. Yes, you saw it. They don't look like us, but they are us. They're the Wilsons.

Dave Wilson: Hey, you can come back anytime. Next time, bring some kids.

Peter Mutabazi: Oh, please, I will. Maybe my teenagers.

Ann Wilson: Do that! Thanks, Peter. And again, the book is called Love Does Not Conquer All. That's a good title. It is. It's against everything we've heard! It does not conquer all. And you can get it at FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link in the show notes.

I just want to remind our listeners that our vision at FamilyLife is every home, a godly home. And we need your help to get there. And when you become a FamilyLife partner, your monthly support makes that vision actually possible.

Dave Wilson: Yes, you'll get access to exclusive updates and events and the chance to join our partners-only online community. But more than that, you're helping change the future of families. So the question is, will you come alongside us and alongside families in need?

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