FamilyLife Today®

Jamie Grace: I was nine years old when my anxiety first started. It was just this feeling of being worried, but it was a worry that I couldn't get rid of. It was a stress that I couldn't get rid of. But to be sitting there and find out that, no, this is an anxiety disorder was so much more frustrating than I could have prepared myself for.

Because as a follower of Jesus, you kind of, at least as a kid, just the practicality of, you pray for something and God helps you with it. Or you need something and the Bible gives you the tools to deal with it.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave Wilson: All right, let's talk about the last time you experienced real anxiety.

Ann Wilson: This morning.

Dave Wilson: That wasn't anxiety. That was anger.

Ann Wilson: It was both, actually. Go ahead and tell them.

Dave Wilson: You have not been feeling well. And so I was going to bed last night knowing you're sick. And I have this water beside the sink because I take my vitamins every night. So I take the water and I think, if Dave wakes up in the middle of the night, he's going to drink my water and then I'm going to get sick if he drinks from my glass. So I take my cup, it has ice and water in it, and I put it in the closet.

Ann Wilson: So next morning, I'm drinking out of that cup, I take my vitamins again, I'm walking around the house with the cup and Dave says to me, "That's not your cup, is it?" I'm like, "What do you mean? It's always my cup, yeah." He goes, "Oh. Well I drank out of it last night." I'm like, "It was in the closet! Why would you go into my closet?"

Dave Wilson: I wondered why it was in the closet. I was like, "Where's her cup? Oh, it's in a closet." I drank it, I took my NyQuil.

Ann Wilson: And then why wouldn't you tell me, "Hey, don't, I drank from your cup"?

Dave Wilson: I did think, "Why is this cup in a closet with ice? I thought you put it there for me. It's like, how considerate of my wife to put a little glass of water." Anyway, we're bringing all this up because we've got a guest in the studio today. Jamie Grace is with us at FamilyLife Today. Welcome to FamilyLife Today, Jamie.

Jamie Grace: I'm now convinced that that is the perfect Lifetime movie intro.

Dave Wilson: Jamie's written a book called *Finding Quiet: My Journey to Peace in an Anxious World*. That's why I brought up this anxiety thing. Jamie's written this crazy great book about finding peace in the middle of anxiety. But I know a lot of our listeners know who you are, Jamie, but I did not know two-time Grammy-nominated songwriter, singer, actress. I went online last night.

Is this one of them that was nominated?

Ann Wilson: Look at you! Yeah! Oh, you were strumming down. That's so cool.

Dave Wilson: I always wanted to be TobyMac. For some reason I've never been nominated for a Grammy. What do you think, honey? Maybe there's a reason. It takes talent. Real talent.

Ann Wilson: What I like about you, though, Dave, you'll just do it. But Jamie, you really are gifted in a lot of different ways and so it's really fun to have you on. But what you've written about, man, it's something a lot of us face and we deal with, especially in the day and age with your subtitle, *My Journey to Peace in an Anxious World*.

When I talk to you, I'm like, you're so positive, you're really upbeat, you're really fun. But this is something that you've really struggled with and dealt with. We want to hear your story. Let's take us back into where did this all start?

Jamie Grace: It's definitely a journey, as you said and as I kind of mentioned in the book, and I get quite frustrated that it's a journey at times. I'm a very pro-therapy person and I was literally talking with my therapist last week. She's so cool and we were talking and I mentioned something and she was like, "Oh, well I think this could be, you might be worried about XYZ." And I looked at her and I was like, "Oh no, I've already dealt with that. I dealt with that five years ago in therapy, so I'm good."

She and I just got in this almost comical conversation about just like sometimes we forget that it is a journey. And we forget that sometimes we might have this anxiety about something and then we feel better about it and it's like, okay, I don't have to deal with that anymore, but then something comes up and all of a sudden we're thinking about that anxiety again.

That started for me as a kid. I was nine years old when my anxiety first started. It was just this feeling of being worried, but it was a worry that I couldn't get rid of. It was a stress that I couldn't get rid of. I am a pastor's kid. My mom and dad started our church when I was about two years old, so we always call it the middle child because there's my sister and then two years later was me, then two years later was the church. I was the youngest child as opposed to the middle child. And so I just grew up in church and I had even at nine years old I had a very significant confidence in Jesus.

Ann Wilson: Well I love you start your book. You say, "When I was seven, I made a decision to love Jesus for the rest of my life. And when I was 11, I was diagnosed with anxiety."

Jamie Grace: It was this thing where every 11-year-old, every 40-year-old, every 70-year-old deals with worry and stress. But to be sitting there and find out that, no, this is an anxiety disorder was so much more frustrating than I could have prepared myself for because as a follower of Jesus, you kind of, at least as a kid, just the practicality of, you pray for something and God helps you with it. Or you need something and the Bible gives you the tools to deal with it.

That's just kind of how it works. And so having a generalized anxiety disorder is literally being almost given this pass to, oh no, you're going to be panicking about stuff a lot. This has crossed the threshold of an everyday awkward and has moved into, no, we can actually show you the chemical imbalance in your brain and worry is unfortunately a part of your everyday life.

Ann Wilson: What did it look like? You say worry.

Jamie Grace: It would be from my mom would say something like, "Okay, so we're homeschooled, right?" So my mom would be like, "Okay, so we're going to hop in the car and we're going to do a field trip today. We're going to go to a museum and learn about XYZ." And within 30 seconds, my mind had already processed the statistics that can happen of car accidents in the car and processed, "Okay, well what could happen if we get to the museum and I can't remember everything that I learned? Am I not smart enough? Am I not good enough? Oh, am I homeschooled because I can't go to regular school like everybody else because I don't have any friends? Oh, nobody likes me. Oh, my dad's not here because my dad's at work. Oh, because we don't have a lot of money even though my dad works a whole lot and my dad can never really work enough to really take care of the family, but that's not nice to say because Dad works really hard." Within 30 to 60 seconds, every possible dramatic and awful scenario would just start mentally taking a toll on me.

Dave Wilson: The way you just said that, it felt like we were in your head. It felt like that noise. Is that the noise you're talking about?

Jamie Grace: All day. It's all day. And so I've learned some really helpful tools to help silence that noise, but it's a conscious choice to fight that noise. And it's a conscious choice to allow that quiet to happen. But I think even though I have generalized anxiety disorder, I know for a fact that even people without it have anxiety and have worry and have fear. And we have to consciously choose to trust in the Lord that the anxiety that's happening in our mind is oftentimes a liar and trust the quiet that we are having a hard time procuring is the very thing that we need. So it's a lot of active reacting on a daily basis for me to combat the anxiety that happens naturally.

In addition to that, at eleven I was diagnosed with a tic disorder called Tourette Syndrome, which is a movement disorder causing uncontrollable movements and sounds called tics. And then also Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, OCD, which is similar to anxiety but basically causes more actions than thoughts, so like repetitive counting of something or tapping or moving, repetitive pursuing of textures. Like if I see a texture, I need to feel like, "Oh, I need to go figure out what that is." Or a texture that I just cannot touch. I'm like, if that blanket comes near me, I will probably cry. And then also ADHD, which is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, which really just affected all the others. It's a lot. I was eleven and sometimes I look back and I'm like, "Kid, were you okay?"

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Ann Wilson: Well, I'm thinking of our listeners that have kids that maybe have had some of those diagnoses or maybe they're dealing with anxiety and depression. And yet, to look at you on the outside, I would never know any of that. And plus you're super successful, you're doing a ton and you're young. So as eleven, here you are, you've had this crazy diagnosis with a lot of different things. Then what?

Jamie Grace: The first thing was relief. My symptoms really were at their heaviest when I was nine. Well, between 9 and 15, but the onset of them was nine years old when the tics were really bad. I was constantly squeezing my hands, my feet. I had some of my tics were oftentimes injuring myself. So like I would be in the car and hitting my head on the window. The way that my legs and arms would flail would oftentimes I would hit myself or hit myself in the stomach.

And again, these things are all uncontrollable. It's just the way that if you're nerdy like me and you're like, "Oh, how does this happen?" The neurons in my brain that are supposed to signal to do things, there's a little mix-up in the wiring. We live in an imperfect world; these things happen, unfortunately. And so the main thing was that, was my tics. And so getting that diagnosis was such a relief because it felt like, "Oh, there's a word. There's an understanding."

Ann Wilson: There's a reason.

Jamie Grace: Exactly. I, like a lot of other kids, I mean statistically this is much more, but like I dealt with things like asthma as a kid, which is pretty common. I had an inhaler just in case I needed it. It wasn't too bad by the time I was in middle school. So getting my diagnosis of everything else was kind of exciting because in my head I was like, "Oh, am I going to get an inhaler for Tourette?" I never heard these words before but I assumed they'd give me some medication. But my relief, it dissipated so quickly because I just remember my neurologist sitting there and saying to my mom like, "Hey, just so you know, there's no cure for any of this stuff. There's not even medication for it. There are medications that we can try, but nothing is for sure going to work."

Ann Wilson: And then even the medications you were on, that was rough.

Jamie Grace: They were horrible. I feel so much for parents that are still going through this today with their children because now, don't get me wrong, there's been so much research and studies and we've grown so much in the medical community and I'm so grateful for all the people that have put in the work. But if you are a parent of a child dealing with illness, that's a full-time job. And I'm so grateful for my parents because they fought for me relentlessly. Just like I would try one medication and it would have me dealing with things like hallucinations or sleeping day after day after day or not sleeping at all or complete loss of my personality. I was on a heart monitor at one time because one of the medications was affecting my heart and the payoff just wasn't worth it. The benefits of the medication rather, it just wasn't worth it. So it was miserable.

It's tough because a lot of times when people meet me or if they see me, nine times out of ten my hair is purple or pink. There's always something.

Dave Wilson: It's a little both right now. It's so cool.

Jamie Grace: Thank you. It's always elaborate. It's always something going on. And I think sometimes I'm kind of overcompensating for that childhood situation that I went through because it was horrendous. This five to seven-year gap in my life where I was just miserable. It was awful. I was very depressed.

Ann Wilson: Tell us about your mom that was fighting for you and even your dad. I'd love to know, did they ever lose it? Were they always patient? I'm just thinking if I'm in the car and my son is banging his head on the window, there might have been times where I'm like, "Can you just stop that?" But obviously it's a medical condition.

Guest (Female): Or as mama I'm crying. I'm thinking, "Lord, what are we going to do?"

Jamie Grace: I don't know how they did it. I don't. I don't know how they do it now. I mean, I still have stuff. Just think about the very stereotypical dynamic of the youngest child that's married and with their first child. Just the dynamic of me being like, "Mom!" I'm annoying. I'm a millennial. But yeah, it's like I don't know how my parents are even still so gracious and so patient with me and that's just the Lord, honestly.

My mom, I struggle to call her a stay-at-home mom because I think she was like a work-on-demand homeschool mom because we didn't grow up with a lot of money. So my mom was like, "I'm going to start a cookie business real quick." But she also homeschooled us. And she is the literal person that took the literal paperwork to my neurologist and said, "It's called Tourette Syndrome and my child has it."

They could not find out what it was. It was almost two years of going to different doctors and all this kind of thing. In the mental health community, it is hard to get a diagnosis, but it's especially difficult for people of color to get a diagnosis and for women to get a diagnosis just because a lot of the research isn't based off of people of color.

I was told by my neurologist at a very prominent children's hospital in the Southeast that there was no way I could have Tourette Syndrome because I was not a white male. And so she said that she thought that I had something called psychotic eyes. And my mom said, "That doesn't exist." And she's like, "Yeah, but I think that's what it is." And my mom was like, "Bye." So we stopped going to her.

We found me a new neurologist who still didn't know what it was. And fun fact, if you go and look at my records, I am actually classified as a white female and I think that it was done so that I could get my diagnosis because in the South they just would not give me a diagnosis. And so my mom's the one that was like, "Hey, my kid has Tourette Syndrome. I dare you to challenge me." And they looked at it and they're like, "Oh, you're right." And she never stopped fighting for me and she still does.

Ann Wilson: You're a mom. It's that mama bear thing in us.

Dave Wilson: Well, I mean it sounds like, again, I don't know your mom, sounds like she was extremely firm and went after what she needed to get, but also tender and gentle with you. Is that true?

Jamie Grace: Oh yeah, for sure. I can't remember one time that she did not extend me the grace that I needed, really. She's also a very comical and real person and very much a realist as well. Don't get me wrong. I remember once I was 12 and there was something that I was really obsessing over like OCD-wise and I was like, "Well, it has to be this way, it has to be that way."

For context, I was super nerdy, so I was 12, I was already in 9th grade and so I was planning for college and stuff. My mom sat me down and she was like, "Hey, let's talk about this real quick. In this house, you can be who you need to be. You can do what you need to do. But I want you to understand something: the world is not going to give you the grace that I'm going to give you."

She was like, "I'm never going to tell you not to have OCD because that's not how it works. But you have to be mindful that if college is something you want, if moving out of the state by yourself is something you want, I just need you to be mindful. The world is not set up for little Black girls with mental health issues. So whatever that means, you need me to go with you? You need to stay with me? You need to stay with me and Dad? Whatever it is."

I always appreciated how real she was with me. She definitely wasn't one of those moms that was like, "Just be yourself, baby, the world will deal with it," because that's not practical. I like that she was like, "You be who you need to be and you do what you got to do, and understanding that the world will never give you the kind of anything that you might feel that you deserve or need."

Dave Wilson: Did that give you the confidence you needed to become who you are?

Jamie Grace: I think so. It helped me feel so comfortable with being different. I think so often even now as a society we always want to talk about like, "Oh, we got to like come together and talk about all the things that make us the same." And yeah, that's a beautiful, important thing. But I also like to embrace what makes me different. I wasn't born to fit in with everybody else. I wasn't made to be like everybody else.

And so when I went to college, it taught me how to be an advocate for myself as opposed to, "Well, I have mental health stuff, I have severe anxiety, they better adapt to me." It taught me like, "No, I need to learn how to become an advocate for myself. Whatever full-time job I have, I'm also going to have to become a full-time volunteer advocate for me and my mental health." And yeah, it gave me a lot of confidence, but also it reminded me I also still call my mommy if I need her because yes, sometimes I do. Like a couple weeks ago I called her. I was like, "Um, Mom, I have a doctor's appointment and I'm not sure what to say about a medicine that I need for my arm pain." And she told me what to say. I was like, "Yes!"

Ann Wilson: That's awesome. Well, I'm sitting there and I'm thinking about Philippians 4:19 and you even quote this verse in your book where it says, "My God will meet all of your needs, all of your needs according to the riches of His glory in Christ Jesus." And I listen to you and I think, you're this little girl who was born, God wasn't surprised at your diagnosis and He wasn't surprised. I'm thinking of Psalm 139 where it says He knit us together in our mother's womb.

He's looking at you and He's celebrating. Look at my daughter. She has so many gifts, she has so many talents. And yes, she's got some things; I know about those, I'm not surprised by those. And yet I'm going to use her. I think that's such a good reminder for all of us because sometimes we can look at our brokenness, we can look at our diagnosis, we can look at our kids and we can think, "Lord, do You see what's happening?" And He goes, "Yeah, I see your girl. I see you."

I think it's a really good reminder that God is saying, "I'm with you. I'm with you in it." And you've been a great example and I love hearing the story of you and your mom that she's fighting for you and she's speaking truth to you in love and grace. And that's what our Father, God, does for us as well.

Dave Wilson: In some ways, that's what we get to do as parents. We get to be the voice of God to our kids. Whether they fit in with everybody or they don't, they're looking at us to be the voice that says, "This is what Jesus sees and thinks of you."

Jamie Grace: Right, exactly. I love that so much and especially what you were saying about the Lord just not being surprised. It takes me to this incredibly vivid memory. I have a collection of 34 very vivid memories from childhood. It's so random. But I have this one. We were waiting for my mom to I think come out of an antique mall or something and my dad and I were sitting in the minivan and I was doing some gymnastics in the car.

Dave Wilson: In the car?

Jamie Grace: Yeah, yeah. I mean I'm just really talented, so it was horrible. But I was maybe eight or nine years old. My dad's a pastor and so he's supposed to know all. To my surprise, he does not know all and was very disappointing. But I asked him once, I was like, "Dad, can you just tell me if God is so smart, why doesn't He just tell me everything that's going to happen?"

Ann Wilson: Or even the question that a lot of us ask is, "Lord, You could heal me. Why don't You just heal me?"

Jamie Grace: Exactly. And I really thought I had it all figured out. I was like, "Dad, all God has to do is just fix it. Tell us everything." And I remember my dad, he looked in the rearview mirror. My dad is so beautifully poetic and dramatic. He could have turned around, but I feel like he was doing this for dramatic effect. He looked in the rearview mirror and he was like, "Well, if He told us, we would not have a reason to trust Him, then would we?"

I was just like, that makes so much sense. My mind was blown. And then I told him, he's like, "Man, I'm going to preach that one day." And I just remember telling him, I was like, "No, Dad, I'm going to preach it." And I like to remind him like, I'm preaching it, Dad, like I am because I try to make that my life's work of just trusting the maker here.

I could be healed of Tourette Syndrome tomorrow. Yeah, I could beg God to just tell me the plan for the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. I could go there if I wanted to. Or I'm just choosing to trust Him. He's not surprised by any of this and so I'm just choosing to say, "Okay, Lord, You put me here for a reason. You're allowing me to walk through this stuff for whatever reason that might be." And I always try to remind myself like Job went through worse, so at least I ain't Job. You're allowing me to go through all this stuff. I'm here, I'm present with You, Jesus. I'm just choosing to trust that You have a purpose for all of it that is so much greater than what I could plan for myself.

Ann Wilson: You've been listening to FamilyLife Today and, man, what a great conversation with Jamie Grace. Again, her book is called *Finding Quiet: My Journey to Peace in an Anxious World*, and you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com.

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Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru Ministry. Celebrating 50 years of God's faithfulness as marriages grow stronger and families flourish in Him.