FamilyLife Today®

Sissy Goff: Parents today come in wanting tools for their kids more than anything. And I think tools help us, but tools don't really transform us. And it's our faith that transforms us. And so we want to come at worry and anxiety from a really practical level that's going to help us in the moment. And we want to come at it from a foundational level of faith that's going to change us in the process.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave Wilson: So we wrote a book called No Perfect Parents.

Ann Wilson: Yeah.

Sissy Goff: Yeah. I have it in my office.

Dave Wilson: Because.

Sissy Goff: From before I ever met you all.

Ann Wilson: Oh, really?

Sissy Goff: Yes.

Dave Wilson: Yes. Here's the question. Do you ever read it?

Sissy Goff: Okay. Whatever.

Dave Wilson: Like most people, no. I don't even think our kids read it. And they wrote it. You know.

Dave Wilson: But I mean, so often as parents we strive to be perfect. Not that we can, but we want to be the best we can be. But at the end of the day, there's no perfect parents.

Ann Wilson: At all.

Sissy Goff: It's funny, Dave, because I remember the stage of having toddlers and babies. And I would just, I would lie down in bed every night. And I would be tormented with my failures, with my loss of compassion. With yelling, with trying to get a clean house and I was failing at everything.

Dave Wilson: Then I'm laying beside her. Like, we're good. Everything's fine.

Sissy Goff: But when we wrote the book and I wrote down all the lies that I was believing every day.

Ann Wilson: Yes.

Sissy Goff: We have thoughts going through our mind, but we also have an accuser who's relishing when we have anything that we're bashing ourselves about. And I do remember, as I wrote the book, I felt like God reminded me, talk about and think about in your mind the things you did right today.

Ann Wilson: Yes.

Sissy Goff: And many times we don't think about the good things we've done. We only think of the negative.

Ann Wilson: Why are you laughing?

Dave Wilson: Well, I'm just thinking we've got, you know, an expert sitting in the studio today. Sissy Goff is back. I mean, I, I mentioned one time, you're the world's renowned, in my mind, one of the best counselors, therapists I know.

Ann Wilson: So kind. Yes you are, Sissy.

Sissy Goff: You are so sweet.

Ann Wilson: We have you on a very high pedestal.

Sissy Goff: A lot out there that are really great. But I've been doing it a long time, which helps.

Dave Wilson: Sometimes I feel this when I was preaching. You know, I look out and I knew a couple therapists sitting in the in the congregation and I'm thinking, they are just like, Wilson is so messed up.

Ann Wilson: And he don't even know it.

Dave Wilson: You know. And I'm like, looking over you because you work with kids every day. You obviously work with parents. You wrote this book, the worry-free parent.

Ann Wilson: You've written several books.

Dave Wilson: I want to know from your perspective, your parents, my parents, our parents worried.

Sissy Goff: Yeah.

Dave Wilson: I know they did. But compared to the culture we're in today, it just feels like it's so chaotic and as parents and now as grandparents, the worry feels heavier.

Sissy Goff: Yeah.

Dave Wilson: You're the expert. Is it? Is that what's going on? Is that what you're seeing?

Sissy Goff: Yes. Two things. I think it feels more pervasive. I feel like it's everywhere because of these phones. Yes.

Sissy Goff: And so we're inundated with all the things that are going wrong in the world. We're inundated with all the things that might go wrong. And we're inundated with all the people who are telling us exactly how to do it right. And they all have different opinions.

Sissy Goff: You know, I think that's one of the hardest things as I hear from parents today. It's like, well, I read about this new thing I need to be doing or I heard about this. I mean, I literally have been saying to parents, I want you to pick one or two voices that you trust. And don't listen to any other ones.

Ann Wilson: That's true.

Sissy Goff: Just pick a couple that you feel like resonate with you and what fits for who you are and let the rest go. Can you imagine? I mean, my mom read one book. And it was Dr. Spock.

Sissy Goff: And I think the only takeaway for her was to smile at your baby a lot, which is funny because my sister and I both if there's a compliment we get, it's that we smile all the time. So something works.

Ann Wilson: You do.

Dave Wilson: I mean, right.

Sissy Goff: That's not pressure. Smile at your baby. Versus attach just the right way at the right time. And if you do this and that whole movement right now is making me want to lose my mind about you only have 18 summers and 52 weeks and 395,000 seconds. I mean, I just every time I hear that, I'm not even a parent.

Ann Wilson: Not even a parent.

Dave Wilson: We preached that. We did a series on that.

Sissy Goff: No. You all, I'm so sorry.

Dave Wilson: No, I didn't, I didn't make it up. I got it. I'd tell you the ministry. And it's very helpful because you think, oh.

Ann Wilson: Tell me about anxiety.

Dave Wilson: These are the number of weeks.

Sissy Goff: Yes, exactly. I think it's probably more helpful when you're out of it.

Dave Wilson: Yes.

Sissy Goff: Than when you're in it. I just feel like.

Dave Wilson: Hey, you did the marbles.

Sissy Goff: Did I?

Dave Wilson: Yeah, you ain't got the door with a jar full of marbles and pulled one out and said, there it goes one week. There goes another one. And I remember people carried marbles around in their pockets for years.

Ann Wilson: And other signs that you're an anxious parent.

Sissy Goff: Oh.

Dave Wilson: But you're right. I mean, back in the day, even when we were young parents, there was just starting to be quite a bit of material. I don't think there was before that. But from Focus on the Family and James Dobson.

Ann Wilson: I was going to say, probably before Dobson, there wasn't a lot.

Dave Wilson: You name it. And now it's everywhere. And think now as as you just held up your phone. If you want a sermon.

Dave Wilson: I used to love it when I was the only preacher my people heard. They're like, you're good. Right now they're like, man, you're nothing. I listen to this guy or listen to this guy. It's like there's so many voices that causes anxiety.

Ann Wilson: I think the thing that we can do because when I was a young mom, I maybe listened to Dobson and you know what I did the other times? I just prayed my guts out.

Sissy Goff: Yes.

Ann Wilson: And so now what do we do? If a young mom asked me, I'm like, oh, have you listened to this or this or read this book?

Sissy Goff: Right.

Ann Wilson: When it would be better for me to say, oh man, fall on your face before God and tell him everything you're feeling and caring and giving it to him.

Sissy Goff: And I think to hear God's voice, we've got to quiet the voice of worry.

Ann Wilson: Yes.

Sissy Goff: Because it's talking to us so much. Can I read you all something that I read in a devotional that I loved that talks about God's voice versus Satan's voice? Have you all read this ever? It's in a lot of different places.

Sissy Goff: It says, God's voice stills you. Satan's voice rushes you. God's voice leads you. Satan's voice pushes you. God's voice reassures you. Satan's voice frightens you. God's voice enlightens you. Satan's voice confuses you. God's voice encourages you. Satan's voice discourages you. God's voice comforts you. Satan's voice worries you. God's voice calms and convicts you. And Satan's voice obsesses and condemns you.

Ann Wilson: Oh.

Sissy Goff: Doesn't that feel true? And that, I mean, that's worry to me. That's how worry impacts us.

Ann Wilson: Hmm.

Sissy Goff: And so I love the truth. I mean, just even reading that, it makes me feel differently. And so when we can get to his voice and realize that he's going to talk to you about your kids more than he's going to talk to me as the expert, and I'm doing air quotes, in the room.

Sissy Goff: I remember our kids, I've shared this I think before, but they were all teenagers. I think two were in college. It was the summer. They're all home. And I'm asking them to do something and, you know, the first weeks a kid comes home from college and when they're out of school, it takes you a week or two to adjust to the craziness of everyone being home in the summer.

Sissy Goff: And so I'm like, guys, we need to get this done. And I'm giving this whole list of things to do, and they're laughing and they all have their phones in their hands. And I'm like, what are you guys laughing about? And they're like, oh, mom, we're just texting each other saying how crazy you are.

Sissy Goff: And I got so mad. I'm like, you know what? Nobody appreciates me. And so I go stopping out of the house and I go for this long walk. And I start venting to God. Like, Lord, did you see how unappreciated I am? Like, I do so much and I'm whining, but venting to him.

Sissy Goff: And then I hear, I feel this like in my soul, I feel like the Holy Spirit impressing me to think about God, and this was my prayer, God, tell me what you think of the boys. I've vented to you what I think is going on, like he doesn't do this and he never does this.

Sissy Goff: And it was one of the most miraculous walks I've ever been on.

Ann Wilson: Wow.

Sissy Goff: Because it was just through the Holy Spirit reminded me of all the greatness in each boy. I mean, like, things that I had never thought of came to my mind. And it was, I came home and I saw them in a whole different picture.

Sissy Goff: Crazy things of like this boy, like, wait till you see his voice and his leadership. And I came home and instead of seeing who he couldn't be and who he wasn't being, I had a picture of what they could be as they walked with Jesus.

Sissy Goff: It changed the way I even talked to them. But man, isn't that true that we can get in this pattern of, but also going before God and just telling him everything you're feeling? Because he wants to know, because he loves us and he wants to carry it for us.

Ann Wilson: Yes.

Sissy Goff: And he loves them.

Ann Wilson: Yes.

Sissy Goff: He loves them so much.

Ann Wilson: Yes.

Dave Wilson: Several times in your book you say, great parents get it right, maybe half the time.

Sissy Goff: Isn't that wild? That that comes from attachment theory.

Ann Wilson: Yeah, it's pretty good.

Sissy Goff: Which you know, is about the very beginning of a child's life when their brain is growing, doubling in size. So if during that time of life, parents need only get it right 50% of the time, when their brain's growing that fast, of course it's true for the rest of life. That's so good. 50%. So this bar that's being created as I'm scrolling is not real.

Ann Wilson: Yes.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, and I think a lot of our anxiety is we don't get it right in that's probably like 10% or 20%. And we're beating ourselves up, like you do. You did it every night. And I would lay there and go, what are you? I thought I watched you today. You were amazing. And you know, you were, but talk about 50%, you are way over 50% and yet you think, the best parents miss it that much. That gives you some peace.

Ann Wilson: Yes. That's true. What about blended families, Sissy? Are they dealing with even more anxiety? Do you think they carry guilt and maybe some other things as well?

Sissy Goff: I know blended families who aren't necessarily dealing with more. I mean, I really do think you all in this day and time, every family has at least one anxious child.

Ann Wilson: Really?

Sissy Goff: And often the oldest. Yes. So I would say every family's dealing with it. But I think in terms of the impact of a blended family, I think the way the parents work through it is the game changer and it can make all the difference. And then I do see parents who feel guilty and so I think are overcompensating.

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Dave Wilson: Well, you mentioned a couple of terms in your book I'd never seen before about types of parents.

Sissy Goff: Yes.

Dave Wilson: We've heard about helicopter, but you have all these other ones.

Sissy Goff: Oh, I made them up.

Dave Wilson: You make them up. These are your own.

Sissy Goff: Not helicopter. Obviously, yes. Well, I was just out of the parents I'm seeing in my office. Obviously, I'm seeing helicopter parents who are stepping in and fixing things, hovering constantly. And then snowplow parents who are pushing the moguls out of the way, so their kids hit no hard places, no hiccups.

Sissy Goff: Which make a lot of sense when you think about, you know, of course they're good things for your kids. You love them and you don't want them to have to do hard things when every person who works with kids with anxiety would say they have to do hard things to work through it. So, snowplow parents, I have a four-year-old nephew who loves construction, so I've thought about a lot of construction tools.

Sissy Goff: Backhoe parents. So I'm going to clean up the mess behind them that they have made because I don't want them to have to deal with the consequences. I know a family who the child didn't make the student government position. She thought she should. And so the parents called the school and threatened to sue. That is a very extreme backhoe parent, but that's totally what that is.

Sissy Goff: Then sidecar parents, which we're probably all the age of Adam West being Batman and Robin. Remember that old after-school show? So, you know, you think about Batman and poor Robin in the sidecar. Batman's flying through the streets of Gotham and Robin's just his hair's blowing everywhere and, you know.

Sissy Goff: And I think that came out of some parents that I saw that really had the thought of my experience is their experience. We're so similar. That if I felt anxiety when I was growing up, this must be anxiety on my child. When maybe it's not even. Kind of shifting our own experience over to them. And then the last would be parade float parents.

Sissy Goff: And the parade float parents are the ones who are wanting everything to be fun and happy and I'm, you're not going to be sad, you're not going to worry. My mom was a parade float parent.

Ann Wilson: Oh.

Sissy Goff: Sometimes. But when she moved into parade float parent, one of the times was when we lost a dog in our house. I'm not kidding. Every time we lost a dog, my mom would go out the same day, get the same kind of dog and name it the same thing.

Ann Wilson: Wow.

Dave Wilson: Really?

Sissy Goff: I had two Dixies, two blues. Yes. I mean, of course we noticed that it was a puppy, not a grown dog, but she just did not want us to be sad about losing the dog. And her mother did it too. She had two Chrises growing up. Not wild?

Ann Wilson: Not wild? Yes. That's legacy. One of the things you talk about in your book is parents that worry, they're conscientious.

Sissy Goff: Yes.

Ann Wilson: They're good parents.

Sissy Goff: Yes. Oh, yes. She didn't want us to be sad because she loved us. Yes, but. Had a lot of dogs.

Dave Wilson: But in some ways, you know, you hear like the the helicopter, snowplow, backhoe parent.

Sissy Goff: Yeah.

Dave Wilson: In some ways you think those are good things.

Sissy Goff: Right.

Dave Wilson: But they can go to the extreme. Is that what you're saying? They can be bad.

Sissy Goff: Yes, exactly. What's the difference between vigilance and hypervigilance? In parenting, I think is the important distinction. Because vigilance is required. Hypervigilance doesn't help.

Ann Wilson: Hmm. When you talk about anxiety only gets worse if it's untreated, what do you mean by that?

Sissy Goff: Well, really kind of that idea we were talking about that the amygdala actually enlarges and we create based on, there's these psychologists, Catherine Pittman talks about a use it or lose it phenomenon. Our brains literally prune themselves.

Sissy Goff: So the neural pathways, which are this thought leads to this, leads to this. Those neural pathways are strengthened by use. It's the same reason that we all have on pants today, all three of us. None of us probably know what leg we put in our pants first. Do you?

Ann Wilson: My left.

Sissy Goff: Really? You are so impressive. I'm not.

Dave Wilson: I always left.

Sissy Goff: But I think that's a neural pathway. It's why you end up driving somewhere you didn't mean to go because you've driven there a million times. You have a neural pathway for that. We develop neural pathways for anxiety.

Ann Wilson: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. When we talk about marriage, we say that if you aren't intentional, you drift toward isolation. You don't intentionally move toward isolation. It's the natural drift. You have to intentionally work to be one. So are you saying that we could possibly continue on this road of anxiety unless we intentionally turn back?

Sissy Goff: Yes.

Ann Wilson: With some of this.

Sissy Goff: Not just continue, but it's going to get worse.

Ann Wilson: It's going to get worse. That's an eye-opener.

Dave Wilson: Well, I mean, and again, we've already said that if I as a parent am drifting toward anxiety and it's something that's pretty prevalent in my life, it's a good chance it's being passed to my kids. That's the reason right there to say, I've got to do the work.

Sissy Goff: Right. That courage.

Ann Wilson: And your book is doing the work. You're helping us.

Sissy Goff: Well, that's my hope. And I have a book for parents of girls, I have a book for elementary age girls and a book for teenage girls because there are parts of the country that it is much harder to find good counselors, especially Christian counselors. And so I think knowing there are folks who can't get to somebody, my intention was to write these books as kind of a first attempt to get help. Try these things.

Sissy Goff: In fact, sometimes in our office, parents will call and say, I want to get my child in, and our office staff will say, they're this age, read Braver, Stronger, Smarter. And if it feels like it hadn't helped in six weeks, then bring them in the counseling. But try this first.

Ann Wilson: Have you seen when we talked about those different styles of parenting? Yes. Have you seen people change? Have you seen parents become worry-free parents?

Sissy Goff: I feel like the word's kind of a trick. Because of living in a fallen world. I don't know that we're ever going to fully get there. But yes, I've seen parents do the work of walking themselves back.

Sissy Goff: And I think it's work emotionally and it's work spiritually. I mean, it's in both places because. I hate to speak negatively against my profession because I obviously, I believe in counseling so much. But I think so many of the tools that I hope are littered throughout the book.

Sissy Goff: You know, parents today come in wanting tools for their kids more than anything. And I think tools help us respond. They help us in the moment. But tools don't really transform us.

Ann Wilson: Hmm.

Sissy Goff: And it's our faith that transforms us. And so we want to come at worry and anxiety from a really practical level that's going to help us in the moment. And we want to come at it from a foundational level of faith that's going to change us in the process.

Ann Wilson: How do you help parents with that when they come in and? You know, they say they're believers, but maybe they haven't really locked in and surrendered everything. Is that one of the things you encourage them to do?

Sissy Goff: Yes, definitely. And I think some of that is where we can pull it back into tools of like we've talked about having scripture that you go back to. But I think also when we teach on this topic, the last thing we talk about is trust.

Sissy Goff: And Melissa, who you haven't gotten to meet yet, I don't think, but she started Daystar and is still involved as our founding and senior director, but she said something teaching a group of middle schoolers at our little camp one time, where she said, courage isn't the antidote to anxiety, but trust is.

Ann Wilson: Hmm.

Sissy Goff: And I think that's what changes us. Trust is what transforms us. Trust moves us from worry to wonder and it moves from grabbing and trying to hold on tight to a place of gratitude.

Sissy Goff: There are all these beautiful things. I love Frederick Buechner is my favorite author of all times. And one of his quotes says something about in the end, the commandment, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, becomes more of a promise than a command.

Ann Wilson: Hmm.

Sissy Goff: Because it's all we have.

Ann Wilson: Hmm.

Sissy Goff: You know, and then I talk about from fears to reminders of his faithfulness. And I think that's what I want parents to anchor to. And and it's interesting because, you know, again, science mimics faith so much of the time when we really dig deep.

Sissy Goff: And and one of the things that we're supposed to do when we're anxious is remember times that we have done the hard thing, times that we were brave, that we got through whatever it was. And I think as we look back over what God's done in our lives, that certainly takes us to that. And I I had the most, I don't know, transformational experience since the Covenant shooting and I spent the day with the parents from the Covenant school and ended up talking to them as a group about how to talk to your kids once they were reunited with their kids. And you know, I mean it just, I don't have words to describe what the day was like for me on the outside.

Sissy Goff: I can't even fathom walking through it as a parent and because I had been there and because of a variety of things. I ended up being asked to do some interviews afterwards. And one of them is that I was asked to come and be on CNN live the next morning.

Ann Wilson: I didn't know that.

Sissy Goff: Oh, you know, you just think, I want to do right by these people. Like, I want to tell their story in a way that's honoring to them. And so I had had this day and just been devastated by the whole thing. Did three different interviews that night and then the next morning had to be at this location at 6:00 AM to do CNN live.

Sissy Goff: And I didn't, you know, I was tired and overwhelmed and I didn't pay attention to the location. And I had not yet driven by Covenant. And the location was like they do with the White House correspondence. It was across the street from the school.

Ann Wilson: Oh.

Sissy Goff: And drove down there, pull into the parking lot. I'm thinking, Sissy, don't cry, don't cry. This is not the time for you to be crying about this. And I pull up and the producer comes and meets me at the car and walks me over and there are all these people and it's and and I thought someone was going to be interviewing me.

Sissy Goff: And it instead I was talking through headphones, trying to listen to someone in Atlanta and the camera's huge and it's, I mean, it's all moving really fast. And there's this really silly thing that happens to me when I get cold, where my kneecap starts shaking. And it was cold in March in Nashville and I was standing on the street and my kneecaps were shaking.

Sissy Goff: And I was like, you just have got to think about something else. You've got to think about something else for a minute. And so I turn around and there was the sign for Covenant. And next to it, because of the time of year it was, was a sign announcing their Easter services. And I thought, that is it.

Ann Wilson: That is it.

Sissy Goff: I have zero words. I have zero words to say about what's happening right now. But all I know is that what is the darkest day I ever remember touching our community is not what defines us.

Ann Wilson: Hmm.

Sissy Goff: And that's what defines us. Like that's why we are having conversations. That's why we have hope in the midst of tragedy and suffering because Jesus' dark day was darkest day was not his last. And it's not for us either. And so we want to remind ourselves of those kind of truths. Fears to reminders of his faithfulness.

Sissy Goff: Whatever is going on, if you're listening right now, whatever is going on with your kids, even if it's their darkest day, it does not define them. And if you feel like you're in a season of failure as a parent, it doesn't define you. We have hope and we can trust in something that transforms us.

Dave Wilson: Sissy Goff, nothing better than having Sissy on the show. We've had three days with her and it's been awesome. Again, her book is called The Worry-Free Parent, Living in Confidence so your kids can too. And you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com.

Ann Wilson: You know, fall is when small groups start back up. And if you're a group leader, you've been thinking about pulling some couples together for a marriage or family study. I hope you're thinking that. And this really is the best time of year to grab materials.

Dave Wilson: Yeah, I mean, you can get them right now through the end of August. If FamilyLife all the workbooks for our small groups are 25% off. At familylife.com/shop. And there's no discount code needed. You just go there. You can pick from like The Art of Marriage or The Art of Parenting. Or Vertical Marriage, they're all video studies and the workbooks are included. And I'm telling you what, you want to be a part of a group. It's phenomenal to watch God work in your family room and it's so easy. It's plug and play.

Ann Wilson: Yeah. And I feel like we've done almost all of these studies. You guys, they're so good. And it's hard thinking like what can we do this year? We have the answer for you and it's on sale.

Dave Wilson: We've got you covered. 25% off at familylife.com/shop.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Crew ministry. Celebrating 50 years of God's faithfulness as marriages grow stronger and families flourish in him.