FamilyLife Today®

Mark Jobe: You know how many alcoholics say, "I never want to grow up and be an alcoholic like my dad," and repeat the cycle? Just not wanting to be it doesn't guarantee you're not going to repeat it. There has to be a step, like "I need to write a letter to my father and forgive him," like "I need to join a 12-step program and deal with this issue."

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: And I'm Dave Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

So my favorite thing makes me cry every time at church. It's not the sermon, it's not even singing worship, although that's powerful. It is life-change stories. When somebody tells a story of life change.

Ann Wilson: Like the baptisms. When you do baptisms.

Dave Wilson: I weep. Every time I weep. The only reason I'm bringing that up is because I think, okay, here's the thing. You're sitting there and somebody's telling a life-change story and you want that story. I know if I'm telling one, people out there, I know they want God to move in their life the same way.

Ann Wilson: To have a story.

Dave Wilson: But a lot of people never realize the most important thing that needs to happen for that life story to be their life story. What is it?

Ann Wilson: I mean, my first response is Jesus. Jesus gives us life stories. But you have something on the other side of it.

Dave Wilson: On our side of it is we have to take a step. We have to do something. Of course, you're smiling because you wrote a book on this. Your podcast is called *Bold Steps*, right? I just thought if I'm going to introduce Mark and Dee Jobe, I've got to talk about taking a bold step to life change. We're back on day two with you guys. Welcome back.

Mark Jobe: Great to be back with you.

Dave Wilson: Tell our audience a little bit about what *Bold Steps* is. I know it's more than just a podcast; it's a way of life, right?

Mark Jobe: It really is. Here's where it came from. About 25 years ago, we were leading all these people to Christ. They were coming to Jesus, a lot through our church as a pastor in the inner city of Chicago. There was a lot of brokenness and a lot of baggage. We started doing these encounter retreats we called them for men and women separately.

The theme that emerged was this: everybody has a cycle to break, everybody has a bold step to take, and everybody has a legacy to make. It's about breaking cycles in the past, it's about taking bold steps of obedience, and it's about creating a new legacy as well. What is it that you're forging?

I'm talking to guys who have had addiction from their grandfather and their parents. If they don't break that cycle, it's going to be passed down. So we say, what's the bold step you're going to take to break that cycle? It's not going to happen through passive neutrality; it's going to happen with a bold step.

At the end, at both the women's and men's encounter retreat, they would get up and share their bold step. We would say, "What's your bold step?" and then we would cheer them as they go down. "Hey, bold step, bold step!" So when I started the program on the radio, they were saying, "What should we call it?" Someone said, "You know what? You challenge people to take bold steps." That's where *Bold Steps* came from.

Ann Wilson: That can preach right there. You're the president of Moody Bible College. I bet you've talked about that at chapel.

Mark Jobe: I have. Everybody has a cycle to break, a bold step to take, and a legacy to make.

Dave Wilson: Well, let's talk about that a little bit. How do you break the cycle? I know you've got to take a bold step, but where do you start? Because I had a pretty bad cycle: two alcoholic parents, divorce, adultery, the whole thing. I know I've had to walk that journey. But as I was becoming a man, even when Ann and I got married, I didn't know that I had a cycle that I had to break. I had to understand that. Help us understand.

Ann Wilson: Generational sin.

Mark Jobe: You're not responsible for the background that you come from, but you are affected by it. Your parents' and grandparents' sins, it's not your responsibility, but you are deeply affected. The Bible says that the sins of the parents fall into the laps of the children.

Ann Wilson: Is that your translation of Exodus 20?

Mark Jobe: Yeah, basically. The third and fourth generation into the lap of the children. Here's what we've taught people. I use the story of Gideon because Gideon's father was the guardian of the Asherah pole. He was steeped in paganism. We think what's bad with that? There was child sacrifice involved in the Asherah worship. It was very ungodly, very pagan. When people pointed to Gideon, they would say, "Isn't that the son of the guy that takes care of the Asherah pole?" That was his identity.

When he came to God and was about to be commissioned to his new season of life, God told him, "Go and cut down your dad's Asherah pole, use the wood of the Asherah pole to fuel the fire to the altar of the living God." I believe that's an image that you can use. Some people, their background is infidelity, addiction, bitterness, alcoholism, or divorce. It's part of their heritage. It's what they grew up with.

I say you need to cut down that pole. The very thing that has been maybe your shame, the very thing that you say, "That's not what I want to be," may it be the fuel to the fire of God. But you have to take an action step. We challenge people to take a step that you know you've taken. It can't be "I want to be a better person" or "I don't want to do this."

You know how many alcoholics say, "I never want to grow up and be an alcoholic like my dad," and repeat the cycle? Just not wanting to be it doesn't guarantee you're not going to repeat it. There has to be a step, like "I need to write a letter to my father and forgive him," like "I need to join a 12-step program and deal with this issue." Sometimes the very thing that we're coming out of helps constitute the calling that we're going into because we understand the pain of it.

I had a guy 17 years ago, he walked into the church, a cocaine addict. His aunt practically drugged him there. He said, "I'm not going to stand up, I'm not going to sing, I'm not going to take off my sunglasses." He sat in the back. He's about 6'6". He's not going to do any of that. God got a hold of him, turned him around, broke that addiction, and he is a drug addiction counselor now because he understands it. That fuels his calling.

Sometimes people that are in a certain calling, you're in a marriage and I don't know your full story, but I bet there's stuff there that you say, "You know, we could have ended up in a bad place or we come from some places, but this fuels our calling because we know that this can be different than what we've lived or what our life could have been." So there's a passion, there's a fire to see the healing happen. Usually, that's the way it is in our lives as well.

Dave Wilson: It's sort of like God meets you in your pain, and then it blows us away because in that pain, He doesn't just meet us; He then uses it as our platform. It almost becomes our purpose. When you said that, Mark, I was like, yeah, my broken home has fueled why we're sitting here today. We have this passion, number one, to lead people to Jesus and the gospel, but to see marriages restored. Why? Because I came out of a broken one. I didn't even know that was going to be a fire inside me, but it is.

Ann Wilson: But it wasn't until we really struggled and we almost lost our marriage. That's what woke us up to say, "Oh, we need to break the cycle." Did you guys have cycles that you had to break?

Mark Jobe: We've had a lot of cycles we've had to break. I think I've had a lot of cycles I've had to break.

Dee Jobe: I was wondering because you talked yesterday about watching your parents' marriage. It wasn't something that you would want to have. I learned what a Christian home was. I didn't learn it in the way I wish I had.

What's really important at these encounter retreats—I just had one with 600 women a couple of months ago—we have them look through, we name things. We name some of those sins, some of those cycles. I think you need to identify what cycles are in your family. We don't ask people to deal with all of them, but choose one you're going to start with and take your bold step with that one cycle.

What do you need to do? Do you need to pursue counseling? What is it? For me, yeah, there were cycles. There were cycles of anger, bitterness, and insecurity.

Ann Wilson: So it doesn't just have to be an addiction. You're saying internal things that you're struggling with or lies that you've been listening to internally.

Mark Jobe: Bold steps get us out of our comfort zone. Bold steps confront what we're going to be repeating. It's seldom that a Sunday doesn't go by that I don't put my arm around someone and say, "You're a cycle breaker. You're breaking cycles."

I had fewer cycles to break because my parents broke the cycles. I think that when you break cycles, it doesn't relieve your kids from responsibility. They're still going to have issues to deal with, but I think it makes it less if you're the cycle breaker. My dad had to break cycles. My mom came from an alcoholic family. They broke some major cycles.

So I was in a much healthier home. We all have our issues that we have to deal with, but the cycles weren't as great. So I do believe that just as the sins of the parents fall into the laps of the children, so do the blessings of the parents fall into the laps of the children as well.

Ann Wilson: A thousand generations.

Mark Jobe: Exactly. So we need to keep that in mind as well. You're not just doing it for you; you're also doing it for your children and their children. At the end of these encounter retreats, I do the father-daughter factor. I speak into the women about sometimes the vacuum that they have of a father that spoke into their lives. These women are weeping across the auditorium every time. He speaks to them and asks forgiveness on behalf of those dads or men that have hurt you. That's a very powerful time.

Dave Wilson: As I speak at men's retreats, I try to help men understand this. When you are dealing with a temptation or a struggle, we often think, "This is my struggle." But as a father and a dad and a mom and a wife, this is not just your struggle. This will be your son's and daughter's struggle. Even if you do it in the dark and nobody ever knows, scripture is true: this will fall on their laps.

The stakes are much higher than you think. It isn't just, "Oh, I just got to win this alcohol or this porn battle." My kids are going to deal with this. So it should up the ante to say, "I'm going to win this thing. I'm going to take a bold step because it isn't just about me." Is that true? Is that what you've seen? I'm preaching to the choir; this is what you do.

Dee Jobe: I just had a conversation with a young lady at church, a single mom, divorced, three beautiful little girls, and now just had another son in a relationship that is not a healthy relationship. I said, "Are you going to splash blessing or curse on these kids? What are you doing? Be who He's called you to be. Looking to men to meet those needs is never, never going to fill you. What are you splashing on these beautiful kids?"

I think there's a list of cycles I had to break and still break. But I remember at times when it was difficult with my daughter. She's a great girl, but I was telling your wife before we started the show that you have three sons. The girls are the ones that have the drama. During that time, my dad never said he loved us. Never. I never heard it.

Ann Wilson: My dad didn't either. Or my mom.

Dee Jobe: Never heard that. So all of that was so new. The nurture, all of that was so new. When high school hit, Mark said, "You know what? Let me take over for a little bit here." I had to back off until I could work through some of my own pain and dealing with cycles that need to be broken.

Ann Wilson: What was your pain doing? Like your cycle?

Dee Jobe: I think I was more harsh. I thought, "I'm going to control." It was mainly control.

Mark Jobe: Out of fear and out of love, but that was the response.

Ann Wilson: That's what I do, too. When we're fearful, we control.

Mark Jobe: Mark stepped in at that stage and helped me out there. I was more of a coach. Thank God that the older kids get, the more they realize how much. They have a great relationship right now. But you repeat the cycles that you see typically. Parents, break the cycle. Break the cycle because you're affecting now.

I've been pastoring long enough now that I realized two Sundays ago, a young married woman wanted me to dedicate her children. She said, "I really want you to do it, Pastor Mark." I said, "Okay." I said, "Why?" She says, "Because you dedicated me as a baby." I said, "How old are you?" She said, "33." I dedicated the mother, and now I'm dedicating the children. She showed me the picture of when I held her and dedicated her 33 years ago.

We've been around long enough to see the couples that choose to break cycles, and the effect on their children. We've seen some really wild stories. Now the kids, you would never know it because the parents helped break the major cycles in their life. Of course, everybody has their things to deal with, but they're on a whole different course.

Ann Wilson: You talk about in your book, *What Now?*, how to move into your next season. It's this little book. I like that it's so easy to read; you can get on a plane and you're just done with it. But it has so many great principles in it. Even the last part of the book, you talk about taking the first bold step. You talk about you guys going into Tijuana with your friend. Dee, you need to share this story.

Mark Jobe: We were down at a conference in San Diego and we invited some friends to join us. They'd never been to Mexico. I said, "Okay, we'll rent a car." We went to the car rental place and they told us, "Be careful because Tijuana is really bad right now." They said the last people they rented a vehicle to, the police stopped them, had them get out of their vehicle, got in the car, and drove off with the rental vehicle. So be leery of police, is what they told us.

So we go down there and we have dinner. We're driving back up in Tijuana with this rented vehicle and someone says, "Hey, there's a cop behind you." I'm laughing and looking in the mirror, and sure enough. So I put the turn signal on, turn lanes, and they move behind me. Then they turn on their lights and start waving that I move to the side. So I pull to the side.

This guy, dark sunglasses, gun in his holster, comes up to me, motorcycle guy, and in Spanish, he says, "Pull into that alley up there because it's too dangerous here."

Ann Wilson: Dee, what are you thinking? Are you nervous?

Dee Jobe: I was nervous, but my nephew was with us and he assured me we were going to be fine. He convinced us to go to this place on the beach, have lobster, and he assured me we would get back safe.

Mark Jobe: So we pull over and this cop starts talking to me. He says, "I'm going to give you a ticket. I've got to take you down to the police station." I said, "Well, can't you write the ticket out?" "No, I have to." So he's very aggressive, talking to me. I feel like he wants money to be paid off. He said, "What are you doing down here?" I said, "I was at a pastor's conference." "Why a pastor's conference?" "I'm a pastor in Chicago." He looks at me and says, "What does Romans 13 say?"

Dave Wilson: Excuse me?

Mark Jobe: He says, "What does Romans 13 say?" in Spanish. I thought, good thing you speak Spanish. First of all, two things go through my mind. What in the world does Romans 13 say? Just because I'm a pastor doesn't mean I've memorized the whole Bible. Secondly, this is not like AWANA. If I don't get a sticker, I go to jail if I don't know what Romans 13 says. I'm like, "Well, Romans 12 says, don't be conformed..." He said, "Romans 13." Then it struck me. It says submit yourself to the governing authorities as though they were servants of God.

As soon as I said that, he took his sunglasses off, took his hand off his pistol, and started addressing me as Pastor. He just changed and he said, "I'm not going to give you a ticket. Pastor, be careful. Go slower." I'm like, what just happened? Then he pulls up next to me and he says, "Hey, Pastor, pray for the police department in Tijuana. We really need it." And then he takes off.

It reminds me that we're all on a journey. Our journey can be hijacked. Ultimately, we need to know the word of God. Because our journey's going to be hijacked by a lot of things that we don't understand, and ultimately, it may not be a police officer asking you what Romans 13 says, but it's the word of God ultimately that's going to get us where we need to go. We need to know the word of God and we need to depend on the word of God. That's just a very strong example of knowing the word of God.

Dave Wilson: Ann read me that story. We were reading through your book and preparing for you guys coming in. We were driving in the car and she read it. I go, "Romans 13, obey civil authorities!" I hadn't heard the rest of the thing and I'm like, is that where this guy's going? It was.

Your application of it is so powerful because as you recounted it, Mark, I thought, there's a guy, and I'm sure there's a woman, a husband, a wife whose bold step is, "I need to be the husband that I know God's called me to be," or "I need to be the wife I haven't been." In some ways, we feel like we're defeated. "I messed up. I've been messing up for years. I don't know how to break the cycle."

You've got to decide right here, right now. You're listening to this program today because God said, "I want you to hear this. Your bold step you need to take." We started saying, if you want to change your life, you've got to take a step. It can't be somebody else taking the step. I always just say, you hear the story up on stage and you're like, "I want this story." You can't have it. It's their story because they took a step.

Today the step is I'm going to surrender, re-surrender and say, "I'm going to become the man of the word or woman of the word I need to be. God meet me there, fill me, and make me the person." I want to be a cycle breaker. You can be with God's power, right?

Mark Jobe: 100%. I believe that God uses divine appointment. Someone's listening to this broadcast right now, whether it's on the radio or you're online. The Holy Spirit is speaking to you. Maybe you look at your past and say it's not what I wanted, but I am repeating the cycle over. Maybe you've been discouraged about it.

God wants to let you know that there is hope and that you can break the cycle. It's not a time to escape or to blame, but it's a time to say, "This is a problem in my life." You have the power to affect, I believe, generations to come, but it starts with a decision, a bold decision to say, "This will not continue on my watch."

Father, we pause right now. I pray for that woman that's hearing and tears are coming to her eyes because she realizes that she is repeating that cycle and hates it but has felt powerless. I pray for that man, God, that You have called to lead his household, but he's letting chaos reign in his household, his own addictions to sabotage the very thing that You're trying to create, Father.

I pray in Jesus' name right now that whoever's listening would speak out the cycle that they're trying to break: addiction, infidelity, alcoholism, bitterness, anger, or abusive words. Whatever it is, God, I pray that they would just say it right now. Just say it. What is that cycle?

Give them the boldness and the power to say, "Now what is the step of obedience that God is asking me to take?" I refuse to pass it on to my children and grandchildren, and I surrender it to God. Jesus, I pray that Your power, that power that rose Jesus from the dead that is active in us today, that same resurrection power, that You would give them the boldness to obey now and to speak out the step that they're going to take, God, and that they would do so and break a cycle and create a legacy. I pray this in Jesus' name, Amen.

Ann Wilson: I loved having Mark and Dee Jobe with us. Again, Mark's book is called *What Now? How to Move into Your Next Season*.

Dave Wilson: And you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com. We would love to pray for you. I personally would love to pray for you and we even have a team at FamilyLife that can pray for you. Just go to familylife.com/prayforme.

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru Ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.