FamilyLife Today®

Barrett Johnson: You've got a short amount of time to connect with the hearts of your children and teenagers, even your young adult kids. They say the days are long, but the years are short. Don't waste your time to connect with your kids. All the influence, all the teaching, all the modeling, all the things that Jesus did, He did through the context of relationship. Whatever it takes, connect with the hearts of your kids.

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I’m Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: And I’m Dave Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann Wilson: We’re going to talk about discipling our kids today. That always feels overwhelming. It used to feel overwhelming when I heard that topic come up because I felt like, "Are we doing this well?"

Dave Wilson: And how do we do it? Do we do it right? Today, we’re going to find out from Barrett and Jenifer Johnson how to do it well. So let’s go.

Dave Wilson: If we’re going to disciple like Jesus, where do we start?

Barrett Johnson: Let me talk about the model we created. I don’t think I created it; I just looked at the example of Jesus. I asked, "What did Jesus do with the twelve? What made him so effective, and what can a parent learn from that?" I built it like a little house. It has a foundation, three pillars, and a roof on top.

The foundation is abiding. It’s that walk with Jesus—staying close to the Spirit and close to God. It’s everything. It’s the parent abiding. If we look at Jesus’ example, He was close to His Heavenly Father. We can debate theologically about Jesus being God, but as a human during His ministry, we see in the Scriptures that He pulled away time and again to be alone with God to make sure He was dialed in.

If we don’t do that, we’re missing it completely. Jesus said, "Apart from me you can do nothing." I think that foundation of abiding—a mom and dad who are committed to saying, "God, I want to draw close to You, hear from You, and be in touch with what Your desires are for each of my kids"—is essential. If we don’t do that, then we’re operating out of the flesh. We can do nothing. We’re just doing our best guess at what the right thing to do is, as opposed to hearing from the God who knows the hearts of our children better than we ever could.

Dave Wilson: Before you even go to the pillars, what does abiding look like for you guys?

Barrett Johnson: I think it’s just walking with God—being in the Word, sitting quietly, and saying, "I want to listen to God’s voice. God, what do you want to tell me and show me?" So, it’s quiet time and times of meditation.

Jenifer Johnson: We do that separately because Barrett would always go to work. In recent days, he has been working from home a lot more, so our rhythms of life are a little different. I think it’s more alone time. We sharpen one another, but I don’t want to know exclusively what God is telling Jenifer. Jenifer doesn't hear it solely from me. I need to have a sense of what God is telling me as the husband, father, and leader of our home. Jenifer needs that too. When we put our heads together, we come up with where God is leading us and where He wants us to go.

This is so important because, as a parent, when Jesus is talking about abiding in Him to bear much fruit, I think about that fruit as a parent. Love, joy, peace, and patience—just those four change everything as a parent. If we don’t abide, we display the opposite of that: frustration and anger. I love that you started with abiding.

Barrett Johnson: It’s because Jesus started with it. Remember, moms and dads, this model is not just following Barrett and Jenifer because they have it figured out. We don’t. But we look to the example of Jesus. I can confess, and anybody who knows my parenting style for the last 30 years—my closest friends, my bride, my children—could make a long list of the failings of Barrett Johnson as a father.

Jenifer Johnson: Even as adults, our kids have told us the mistakes that we’ve made. We own that. We want to own it, but we also want to walk in grace and say there’s a better way. Let’s look at Jesus. So, there’s that foundation of abiding.

Dave Wilson: I don’t know which question to ask first because the second one came to me when you just said your adult kids have told you. Ours have, too. All you young parents, guess what? It’s coming. Even if you did a great job, as they become adults, there are going to be things they bring up that hurt them or let them down. Receive it and don't get defensive.

When you said Jesus lived this, I thought, "Jesus wasn't married." When your spouse isn't abiding in a way you wanted or hoped for, or maybe they just don’t want to—maybe they’re not a believer—what do you do when you feel like it’s just you?

Barrett Johnson: I feel like sometimes the partner who is walking with God and senses their partner is not has a tendency to become preachy, judgmental, and naggy. For a mom who says, "I wish my husband would lead better," there are certainly examples of a husband being spiritually deficient in a severe way. That wife needs to prayerfully, tenderly, and gently nudge and guide and pray.

No spouse ever nagged their partner toward godliness. It has never happened. I’ve heard many stories of spouses saying, "The only time he brings up Scripture is when he’s mad at me and trying to correct me." Nobody receives that. Patience, love, joy, peace, kindness, and long-suffering come out of patiently saying, "I’m going to be diligent to do the right thing and pray my partner sees my example."

Dave Wilson: I remember when our three boys were little. Ann’s picture of me leading spiritually was a family altar or family devotions once a week where we’d all gather together. At one point, she said, "The sermon you gave this morning at church—why don't you just do it tonight with the boys?" That was not my vision. It was not the way I was thinking of doing it. I think what she really wanted was Dennis Rainey. She wanted me to be Dennis. Back then, Dennis was our role model.

But I saw it differently. I learned this in seminary: the Hebrew model versus the Greek model of teaching. The Greek model is our education system, where you read a book and have a final where you remember everything in that book. The Hebrew model was apprenticeship. It was walking along the road and living life together. I was always thinking I’m going to teach them along the road. Even as they became teenagers and had issues they were wondering about, what a moment to teach, rather than saying, "Hey, Sunday night." We had conversations about that where we had to adjust to one another.

Ann Wilson: I was just wanting anything! And you did, but you’re right, I had a picture of how it should be right in my head. That picture was intimidating for Dave. He never saw it done, and it’s not who he is. To say, "That’s not my guy," I didn't marry the pastor; I married this man. God put me with him, and He gave us these children because my husband has something to offer.

Dave Wilson: I do think that abiding foundation is key. If you’re not doing that, you don’t have power. You have your own strength, and it’s worthless in a sense. It’s like a microphone, which is a high-quality product. The tools are all there, but it’s not plugged into anything that’s going to make it work. You don’t have the power to be the husband or the mom they need.

Jenifer Johnson: The other thing I will add to that is that I went to a book that was thick with a ring binder. I was going to sit down and do that with my kids, and God said, "No." It was a big discipleship manual that everyone was using. That was when I started an in-home Bible study with new moms from my church in Texas. Shout out to all those precious ladies!

My kids were in the house listening to everything I said. I wasn't like, "Let’s get out this big spiral notebook that everyone else I know is doing." God said to live it and live it in front of them.

Barrett Johnson: We have the foundation of walking with God and abiding. Then I think teaching—what Jesus did with the disciples to teach for life transformation, not for knowledge like the Greek model—is the next pillar. There are three pillars to His process: modeling, teaching, and then applying.

Modeling is the first one. We have to give our kids a picture of what it looks like to walk with God. That’s the most humbling, challenging thing in the world because every parent messes up. As long as there’s repentance with it, that’s modeling. I have said "I’m sorry" five million times while raising children. It is that thing that convicts us. Kids, if you want to know how to walk with God, watch how I walk with God. If you want to know how to study your Bible, watch how I study my Bible. If you want to know how to pray, watch how I do it. Jesus did that. He said, "Do what I do. Watch what I do and live life the way I do it in the kingdom."

Jenifer Johnson: That’s probably the most scary pillar. I would look at my kids and say, "I am so sorry, I have been a three-headed mommy moment today." I literally said that to them.

Dave Wilson: Were there moments when they were teenagers or even adults where they called you out?

Jenifer Johnson: Definitely. We just did our best unto God, and that’s who I answer to. I believe He is full of grace. If I had an elevator pitch for someone on why I believe in Jesus, I would say because He is grace. I have made so many mistakes in my life that could have gotten me into so many troubles, and God’s grace just covered me. I’m going to mess up; I’m not perfect. I want people to know it’s okay.

With teenagers, I think it’s a great question to ask: "Guys, what am I doing that you think I’m saying but I’m not living?" Teenagers will tell you. It’s a great mirror. Be humble and say, "You’re right." All of this is teaching them to be parents themselves. I loved that my kids watched us date a lot. Now I’m watching my kids go on their little trips. It’s fun to see a few things we did right, maybe, and modeled correctly. But we have disappointed our kids, and I’m so sorry.

Dave Wilson: Do you think there’s a sense as parents sometimes when your kids turn out well, you take too much credit, and when they don’t, you take too much blame?

Barrett Johnson: We’re just joining God in what He’s doing. So, back to the model here: we’re modeling and giving an example. Jesus did that.

The second thing is we’re teaching. Jesus obviously was a teacher, and He communicated what it would look like to live in the kingdom under God’s leadership. He taught nonstop. At some point, moms and dads, we do have to teach our kids what it looks like to live in the kingdom. We have to open up the Scripture. It might look like a family time where we open the Bible together and talk about it, or it might just look like asking, "What’s God teaching you, son? What’s God teaching you, daughter? Here’s what God’s teaching me. Here’s what I read in the Word today that was meaningful." It’s talking about what the Truth says. Or driving home from that great sermon from Pastor Dave—what did you learn in the sermon today?

Jenifer Johnson: It's teaching your kids to have a biblical worldview through those conversations. We homeschooled for a season, and Jenifer would certainly do some of that diligent teaching along the way. I tried anyway! I wanted to give them a firm foundation in God’s Word, and I tried very hard to teach them different things about our Lord and Savior.

Dave Wilson: Fall is when small groups start back up.

Ann Wilson: No, fall is when football starts.

Dave Wilson: Well, small groups start back up too. If you’re a group leader, you’ve been thinking about pulling some couples together for a marriage or family study. I hope you’re thinking that! This really is the best time of year to grab material.

Ann Wilson: You can get them right now through the end of August at FamilyLife. All the workbooks for our small groups are 25% off at familylifetoday.com/shop. No discount code is needed. You can pick from *The Art of Marriage*, *The Art of Parenting*, or *Vertical Marriage*. They’re all video studies, and the workbooks are included. I’m telling you, you want to be a part of a group. It’s phenomenal to watch God work in your family room, and it’s so easy—it’s plug and play.

Dave Wilson: I feel like we’ve done almost all of these studies. They’re so good. If it’s hard thinking about what you can do this year, we have the answer for you, and it’s on sale. We’ve got you covered. 25% off at familylifetoday.com/shop.

Barrett Johnson: So we have that modeling and the teaching. Then comes the fun part: applying. I think what Jesus did with the twelve was model, teach them about life in the kingdom, and then He sent them out two by two. "Now you guys go and do what I’ve told you to do. Go cast out demons, go heal the sick, and do what I’ve done." They would do that and come back, and there was a debriefing. They could talk about what went well and what didn't. I'm sure there was a conversation about that.

Too many of our kids spend all their time in our homes and in our churches learning a whole lot of principles and truths. They memorize Scripture and Bible programs, but we don’t give our kids a chance to apply it and really have a chance to taste and see that the Lord is good. Putting legs to your faith is where you can see God showed up in my life. God showed up when I needed Him to show up.

We encourage parents in the book to look for every opportunity. Here are dozens of examples to make your home, day by day, a laboratory to practice what we say we preach, what we say we value, or what we’re learning about the ways of God. Let’s put it into practice so children can see what God’s up to in our lives day by day. Too many parents teach their kids to learn the Bible and the principles but not to practice living it out.

Jenifer Johnson: Deuteronomy 6 is my life verse for where I am right now. Someone at a women’s retreat asked what my verse was, and God gave me that. He said, "As you roll along in the minivan, as you take meals..." I joke that my kids would look at the brownies and go, "Can we eat those, or is that for somebody else?" We cooked so many meals for people who were sick, or we cleaned a lady’s house one day. My son was like, "Can we come back tomorrow? That was fun!" I thought, "Are you serious? I feel bad that I just made you all clean this woman’s house!"

Barrett Johnson: We’re abiding with God. I don’t want anybody to see this as a five-part checklist. If God said, "Here’s the five-point checklist to raising great kids," I think we’d work the checklist and we’d never bother going to Jesus.

Jenifer Johnson: That is what I have said! That’s my saying. I would have gotten the pamphlet. I am such an in-control person. I would have never talked to God. I would have never gone to my room and fallen on the floor. That moment on your face before God saying, "God, help me. If you don’t show up, I don’t know what to do"—that is the best place to be in the world because God wants to come join you there.

Barrett Johnson: We abide with God, we teach for life transformation, we’re modeling, we’re teaching along the way, and we’re giving our kids a chance to apply. Then the capstone of this model is what Jesus did with the twelve. He did all of this not as a distant rabbi, teacher, or student. He did it in the context of relationship. He said, "I’ve called you my friends." There’s a love relationship. I’m doing life with you in this Hebrew model.

Jenifer Johnson: That’s what’s getting us through right now. Every day just saying, "God, I hate this." Every scan that Barrett has had for the last three years shows more cancer. He’s got it so many places I can’t even name them all.

Dave Wilson: As you walk through this journey, how do you walk it with your kids?

Barrett Johnson: The connecting part is the capstone to this model. It’s what Jesus did. It’s what we want. We want nothing more as husband and wife than to be in relationship together, but we want to have a solid relationship with our kids because that’s where the influence is greatest. For parents out there who have kids still at home, children or teenagers, it’s easy when your kids are young. They’re utterly dependent upon you for all good things. When they become teenagers, it gets harder. You prioritize trying to connect and keep that relationship, but distance and challenges are always going to be there. But I think it should still be our goal as parents to try to strive to maintain that the best you can.

We are trying to do that while we fight cancer. It’s interesting because you want to communicate to your loved ones—friends, family, kids, grandkids—this urgency that we feel. Time may be short; let’s spend every moment we can with you because who knows how much time we’ve got. I don’t think people around you fully feel that urgency like you do, and that’s not anyone to blame; it’s just a reality.

We feel that and we live from that. My fear is that the day will come when I’ll move from fantastic to not-so-great. I have no idea what it’s going to look like. None of us know what the end of our life is going to look like. Will I move from fantastic and great to not-so-great very quickly? The people around me that I love and want to be with and have wanted to be with during this season will go, "Oh goodness, let’s make the most of our time," and we’ll run out of time. That’s our fear.

My message to the people listening right now—we can talk about Barrett and Jenifer’s struggles and pain and emotions, but we want to be an encouragement to your audience. My encouragement would be to any parent who’s listening to this to say you’ve got a short amount of time to connect with the hearts of your children and teenagers, even your young adult kids. You’ve got a short amount of time. What did they say? The days are long, but the years are short.

Don't waste your time to connect with your kids. All the influence, all the teaching, all the modeling, all the things that Jesus did, He did through the context of relationship. Whatever it takes, connect with the hearts of your kids. If a parent looks at this model or buys this book or says, "All right, I want to disciple like Jesus. Where do I start?" Start with your relationship with God. Start abiding. God, where are we right now? How are we doing? How do I grow in You and connect with You and be close to You so You can lead me?

But I think the second priority is if you do not have the heart of your child or your teenager—there’s not a love connection there—go back and win the heart of your kid. Go back and do whatever it takes. Gary Chapman talked about love languages. Go back and ask, "What’s the love language of my kid? How do I connect with them there? How do I go to my teenager and say, 'We haven’t been close these days, and I hate that. It’s not what God desires. What will it take for us to be close again?'"

Parents, confess your shortcomings to your kids. They know you have shortcomings. The parent who says, "No, I’m perfect and have it all together," your kid knows you don't have it together. When you live your life communicating you have it all together, they know better than that. Humble yourself and go there. Connect with that love relationship and start there for sure with your kids. That enables us to maximize our influence on our kids to model, to teach, and to give our kids a chance to apply and grow with God.

Jenifer Johnson: We are watching our kids parent, and they know they’re not perfect parents. But I know they’re crying out to God for help. It’s just so neat to see it on the other side. To young moms who want to give up and just walk out the door—I joked we had an electric car one time and I thought, "If I ever want to run away from my family, I can only go 68 miles until I find a plug to plug my car back in. I can’t run away!"

Every mom wants to run away from the responsibilities because it is heavy and it is hard. Be in connection. If you’re a young mommy, find a MOPS group—Mothers of Preschoolers—and get encouragement. It’s so hard. There’s a lot of encouragement out there in the churches for young moms.

Dave Wilson: As you were talking, I literally pulled up the lyrics to a song. We’re all terminal. None of us know if we get tomorrow. None of us are getting out of here alive. In some sense, you have a gift because you know your time’s short. We think our time’s long; it could be shorter than yours.

I thought about Tim McGraw’s song. What a great song! I wonder if the lyrics have anything to do with parenting? They don’t! It’s all about living your best life. He went to the doctor and he said your time’s short. So what did I do? I went skydiving, I went Rocky Mountain climbing, I went 2.7 seconds on a bull named Fu Man Chu. And I loved deeper, and I spoke sweeter, and I gave forgiveness I’d been denying. He said, "Someday I hope you get the chance to live like you were dying."

That is awesome, but I thought, of all the things to do when your time is short: love God, love the people in your life that mean the most to you. Love God, love others. That’s it. That’s Deuteronomy 6. That’s Jesus when He was asked what’s the most important commandment. It’s being the parent that God called you to be with your kids because that’s your legacy. You’re doing it. Way to go, guys.

Jenifer Johnson: I’m glad Barrett’s legacy is in print for when he is gone. He is just such a precious man. We don’t know what’s next.

Dave Wilson: We’re going to pray for you. I’m going to pray that God heals you. You can get their book, *Disciple Them Like Jesus*, at familylifetoday.com. Just click on the link in the show notes. We’ll have your other books there as well: *The Talks* and *Meet Me in the Middle*. Let’s pray.

Father God, I pray for a healing for Barrett. Only You can do that, and You can do that. I don’t know what Your plan is, but we’re asking that You heal him physically. In the days we all have left, whether it’s many or little, I pray we live every second for You and we disciple our children and anyone You put around us. Lord, I pray for our kids and our legacy—that that legacy would honor You. Long after we’re gone, grandkids and great-grandkids would continue to literally live out a legacy of their parents and grandparents. Hopefully, that’s us, who love You and love others. In Jesus’ name, amen.

Jenifer Johnson: Thank you all for having us. We love you all, and thank you for your ministry.

Dave Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Crew ministry, celebrating 50 years of God’s faithfulness as marriages grow stronger and families flourish in Him.