FamilyLife Today®

Dave Wilson: Hey, we just wanted to give you a heads up before you listen to this next program.

Ann Wilson: Today's conversation on FamilyLife Today covers some pretty sensitive but really important subjects that may not be suitable for younger ears. Use some discretion when listening to this next broadcast.

Dave Wilson: Let me add this: if you do listen with your kids, talk about it afterward with them.

Ann Wilson: Right. This is an important conversation to have with older kids, depending on what you're thinking, but we just wanted to give you a heads up.

Jacob Valk: From a parent's point of view, you don't want to envision your children engaged in this. It's a sad, horrible reality, so it's not the first thing your mind goes to when you're thinking of parenting.

I spend a lot of time helping parents get into that messy, dark, sad world of what could happen and then start locking those doors down, especially for younger kids, so that they never do.

Ann Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Dave Wilson: I'm Dave Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

All right, we've got Jacob Valk on FamilyLife Today. Jacob, I don't know if you know this, but I don't think I've ever met anybody that we learned over lunch met and married in six months.

Jacob Valk: We met, got engaged, married, got a house, and then found out we were expecting all inside of a year, which is pretty crazy.

Ann Wilson: And all while you are in ministry, having a job, and you're getting your doctorate.

Jacob Valk: It's a busy life. God is good. If you're doing stuff that you love and are really passionate about, then that's great. I like having a packed schedule. I'm so grateful for all the stuff God's given me to do.

Dave Wilson: You move pretty quick on the projects. As a ministry, you met that girl and you said, "I'm not messing around." You get things done.

Jacob Valk: Basically because my wife, Katie, is so fantastic, getting married was an easier choice than some of the projects we've had to choose to do from a ministry.

Ann Wilson: Tell our audience what you do.

Jacob Valk: I'm here with Into the Light Ministries. We are just passionate about God's good design for sexuality. One of the great threats, one of the great dangers attacking God's good design, is the issue of pornography.

What we do as a ministry is we make films, documentaries, and video series all centered around helping people find freedom from pornography and then love God's good design for sexuality.

Dave Wilson: How did you get into this?

Jacob Valk: I'm here chatting with you guys, but the second half of the ministry is John-Michael Bout. We do everything together like partners in crime. We were friends who grew up together in Southern Ontario.

Ann Wilson: You guys are younger. How old are you guys?

Jacob Valk: I'm 28. He's 25. I'm Gen Z. I'm just the year that makes it.

Ann Wilson: Are you proud of that?

Jacob Valk: I have the sense of humor of someone from Gen Z—that very weird, nonsensical humor. I definitely fit in with that.

Ann Wilson: But there's something going on with Gen Z of a revival.

Jacob Valk: We were talking a little bit about this. The ministry went to CROSS-CON, and I got to talk to hundreds of young people younger than me, some of them 18 to 25. Some of them were almost a decade younger than me.

Asking them and talking to them about the issue of pornography was amazing. I expected when I would bring up the issue of pornography that most of them, as quickly as they could, would be looking for the ceiling out of shame, embarrassment, or awkwardness.

There was that, but on the whole, these young kids looked me straight in the eyes and said, "I hate pornography. It wrecked my life and wrecked my friends' lives. What do I do about it? How can I help my church, my family, and my community, and how do I find freedom myself?" They were clear and honest about the issue. That was really refreshing.

Ann Wilson: Is it different from what you've seen before?

Jacob Valk: I've seen a mix. I've traveled in lots of different communities and been to different churches, and you always have a different range of reactions. This one at CROSS is very young, restless, and reformed. They're just not afraid to call sin sin. They also have a lot of energy. They say, "I need help."

Dave Wilson: Obviously, it's a different generation, even your generation compared to mine. If you were an adult man in my generation that struggled with pornography as a Christian man, which a lot of us did—I did—you usually had a story. I know this because I talked to a lot of guys at our church.

Your story went something like, "Yeah, I was a kid. I was 8, 9, or 12, and I stumbled upon a magazine." It was very rare, but it happened, and then there was this grip that got in you and maybe came out later. Your generation and the next generation have grown up almost every second of their lives with access. It's there. The access is so easily available.

Jacob Valk: I talked to one guy who put it the best I've ever heard it. He said it's easier for a young person today to find pornography than it is to get a glass of water, because at least you have to get off the couch to get a glass of water.

Every device and every screen in your home is a highway to pornography unless you do something about that. Among the different things we do as a ministry, one of the messages I want to send to parents is that you have to think about the devices in your home because the average age of exposure is eight, even seven years old, to hardcore explicit pornography.

Ann Wilson: And it's found across the phone or device innocently, usually. Is that true?

Jacob Valk: Often, yes, especially for a young person. If they don't know what they're looking for, they're not really looking for anything. Here's an example: I was homeschooled, so it's not just a public school thing. Even homeschooled, my younger brother was searching for a website that he knew was perfectly fine. It was a website about films.

He misspelled a single word in that URL and it popped onto a porn website. My mom had had conversations with all of us, so he had a roadmap for what to do. He knew first of all that Covenant Eyes, our accountability software, would flag it. He knew second that Mom would find out about it.

He also knew he should shut it down, walk over to Mom and say, "Hey, Mom, this is what happened. I typed this and it popped up." He knew my mom wouldn't blow up at him or get angry because she said, "If you see something, come talk to me. I'm not going to get angry with you." He had the pathway forward.

He was 14 or something like that, so it turned out to be a largely non-issue. For someone who's not thought through these things, that could be a "What is this? I'm curious," and that could just start the process.

Ann Wilson: For every parent listening, that was a great discussion on the conversation that should take place. If you haven't had that conversation, it should have happened yesterday.

Jacob Valk: There will be a lot of different parents listening to this. I'm always cognizant of the parent with the older kids who feel like they've blown it. My answer is always: here's how you talk to your younger kids, but it's never too late to start.

If you have a 17-year-old and you think they might be struggling, but you're not sure how to start this, one really disarming and honest way is an apology. Say, "There's a lot of things I wish I'd talked to you about regarding God's good design for sexuality and the dangers of pornography earlier, and I didn't. I wish I had. I'm sorry about that. I'd like to talk about these kinds of things more with you."

It's easy to say but hard to do. But it's disarming to just say these are conversations I wish I'd had earlier. They are going to be a little awkward and difficult for sure.

Ann Wilson: What would you say after that? Do you ask the question or do you just say, "How can I help?"

Jacob Valk: I would ask the question. If we're talking about a 17 or 18-year-old, they know what's up. They know what pornography is and have known about it for a long time. Whether they're actively struggling or not, their friends talk about this.

Every parent here knows the relationship they have with their child better than I do. They're not unaware of this world. Asking them, "Are you struggling?" you'll maybe get varying degrees of honesty with that, but let them know, "Hey, if you're struggling, I want to be on your team in fighting this."

I'm not afraid to call sin sin, but I understand maybe you got hooked on this not really intending to. We're not going to excuse sin, but also know that pornography is addictive. If you don't feel like you have anyone to talk to, you can get caught in a pattern that's really hard to get out of. Tell your young person, "Look, I get it. I'm on your side. I'm not going to blow up at you, but I want to get you help."

It might take a few weeks before that's met with an answer that's actually, "Hey, I'm struggling." I know stories from people whose kids have said, "No, I'm fine," and then about a day later come back crying, saying, "I'm sorry. I lied. I need help." Then you can follow through with what you said and say, "I'm not going to blow up at you. I'm not unaware that people can sin, so let's tackle this."

Ann Wilson: Or say, "I have struggled with this before" or "I've been exposed to this." With kids that age, that's the time to share your own story if you've struggled or if you understand the grip.

Dave Wilson: When we found it on our computer decades ago, it was interesting. The first question my wife said was, "Is this you?" Meaning, "Oh, we've got three sons in this house, so it's somebody." When we found out who it was because he said, "Yeah, that's me," I always wondered what my response would be when this happened.

I assumed it would happen. It wasn't if, it was when, and now it's even a different world. There wasn't a phone yet at that time. I remember looking at him and my response was not planned. I didn't know what was going to happen, and I cried.

I said, "Let me tell you, dude, I've been down this road. Let me tell you where this leads." It was a brother-to-brother, "I'm going to walk with you now, but you just opened Pandora's box and I'll help you." It was really interesting. I look back now and I'm so glad that happened because we started a journey and a brotherhood where we decided to do this as men together and win this thing.

Ann Wilson: We both talked to him and said, "How can we help you? What do you think needs to happen?" He said, "I think I need to be off the computer for a month." We were thinking a week. His was worse than ours.

Dave Wilson: This was even before Covenant Eyes. There wasn't software yet. Bad on us that we had a computer in the basement.

Ann Wilson: Well, now they're in their hands.

Jacob Valk: From a parent's point of view, you don't want to envision your children engaged in this. It's a sad, horrible reality, so it's not the first thing your mind goes to when you're thinking of parenting. I think a lot of parents honestly weren't thinking in these categories. They got a phone or a laptop and put it in the basement.

It's more my generation who actively struggled for most of their teen years that are very keyed in. They go, "Computer in the basement? I know what I would do with that, so that's not happening."

With my job, I spend a lot of time helping parents get into that messy, dark, sad world of what could happen and then start locking those doors down, especially for younger kids, so that they never do.

Ann Wilson: Should you scare us with the idea of what could happen? Should we know those things as parents? Your ministry is a place to direct our kids, ourselves, or anybody.

Dave Wilson: We haven't even talked about his ministry yet.

Ann Wilson: He did a little bit at the beginning.

Dave Wilson: I can give you a little background about how we started the ministry and what we've got going on.

Jacob Valk: John-Michael and me grew up together and were really close friends. His story is that he was hooked on pornography from about eight years old. He did have really faithful parents who talked to him about these things, but he still discovered it, kept it a secret, and was hooked on it for almost a decade.

By the grace of God, he had really good friends who were fighting for integrity, and he put this to death with the power of the Holy Spirit, so he found freedom. My story is that I had a really great mom who talked to me about the issues of pornography very early.

I remember her telling me when I was about eight years old, "Jacob, we've told you about this thing called sex." I said, "Yeah, it was weird, but you told me." Then she said, "There are some videos online of people having sex. It's very sad that people film those videos. Christians shouldn't watch it, but if you ever see it, shut that down and come talk to me about it. I won't be angry with you."

Honestly, these days, she probably should have done it earlier. This was 20 years ago. There are certain things you can tell a five-year-old that are pretty close to what I just said that aren't innocence-shattering. "God made boys and girls different, and sometimes there are videos of naked men and women on the internet. If you see those..." A five-year-old can handle that category.

My mom told me about that, and I knew that Covenant Eyes was on my devices, so whatever I saw, my mom would see. That wasn't a terrifying thing for me because it was the condition for getting a device. If you want a phone or a laptop, it's got Covenant Eyes. Covenant Eyes is one of the best. There are plenty of other ones out there.

Ann Wilson: Tell our listeners what Covenant Eyes does.

Jacob Valk: They're an amazing software provider run by Christians. They make accountability software that monitors, filters, and blocks all the content on your devices and sends that information in proper, appropriate ways to your parent, friend, husband, or wife.

You can set that up to monitor what you watch online. They have a lot of AI software that will scan a computer. If it sees something sketchy or even questionable, it can send blurry screenshots back to your accountability person.

Ann Wilson: I never thought of how AI has improved that.

Jacob Valk: I'm John-Michael's accountability partner. He hasn't struggled with pornography for years, but we keep each other accountable. Sometimes I'll have something pop up on my phone that's blurred. I'll look at it, and it's totally innocuous—like a shirtless dude from a surfing commercial. It questioned it and just gave it to me to double-check. I can slightly unblur it and see that it's fine. It's sensitive on the good side.

I never got hooked on pornography. I'm one of the rare ones of my peers who never had that as part of his story, and I'm so grateful for that. That's why I am just on fire to help parents talk to their kids about it.

I want the five-year-olds in our congregations today to be able to get to 25 and walk down the aisle and say, "My parents took this so seriously I never got hooked on porn and didn't drag that into marriage." That's pretty much what gets me out of bed every morning.

Dave Wilson: That's a good vision.

Ann Wilson: Fall is when small groups start back up.

Dave Wilson: Fall is when football starts. Small groups start back up too, and if you're a group leader thinking about pulling some couples together for a marriage or family study, this is the best time of year to grab material.

Through the end of August at FamilyLife, all the workbooks for our small groups are 25 percent off at familylifetoday.com/shop. There is no discount code needed. You can pick from the Art of Marriage, the Art of Parenting, or Vertical Marriage. They're all video studies and the workbooks are included. You want to be a part of a group. It's phenomenal to watch God work in your family room, and it's so easy. It's plug-and-play.

Ann Wilson: I feel like we've done almost all of these studies. They're so good. If you are thinking, "What can we do this year?" we have the answer for you, and it's on sale.

Dave Wilson: We've got you covered. 25 percent off at familylifetoday.com/shop.

Ann Wilson: You said you worked on a documentary. What did that look like?

Jacob Valk: That brings us back to John-Michael and me. We were friends, about 18 or 19, trying to help our friends who were struggling. We were all trying to figure this out together, starting accountability groups and helping do conferences.

John-Michael would buy copies of books that we loved and drop them off at friends' houses, but they wouldn't get read because the book said "pornography" on it. That was going in the back of my head. A few years go by, and I go to school at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for my MDiv. I met a guy named Tim Challies.

I asked Tim about his book, *Sexual Detox*. He said, "The book's fine; there are better books out there. But what's interesting to me is that we have this video problem of pornography and, in answer, we write books. There could be space for video solutions to a video problem." That was fascinating to me.

John-Michael and I had worked on film projects before. I called him and said, "What would it look like for us to reach out to all of the names we respect the most who are writing on the issues of pornography and ask them to come together as this dream team for a documentary?"

We crowdfunded $85,000 in order to produce it, which is not that much to make a film, but we pulled it off. We wanted to talk to men and women because if you only extend the gospel of freedom to guys, you're implicitly saying the gospel that sets guys free is not for women. We wanted to say both.

Ann Wilson: Women are being trapped today, and addiction is escalating among women.

Jacob Valk: We get messages on Instagram from girls who write these beautiful essays about how they got exposed to pornography, how they struggled, and how they didn't think they could talk to anyone in their church. Some would end saying they found freedom and God is good. Some said they're still in the middle of it. We are at a place where people have paved the road to have those conversations more.

Dave Wilson: How does it work for a person struggling? How do they find you? Do they watch the videos, go on a course, or do it with a group?

Jacob Valk: All of them. For the person who's struggling, our first resource was the *Into the Light* documentary. It's a "start the conversation, get everyone on the same page" film that's an hour and 20 minutes long. You can watch it at a youth group or a church.

We also split the documentary up into seven chapters and made an accompanying workbook that goes with it so that you can dive into the discussion questions. If someone wanted to do one-on-one accountability, they could do that for seven weeks. Convicted of your sin and struggling, go watch the documentary first.

The devil loves to trap you in immediacy. He doesn't want you to see far, have a vision for your life, or understand God. He just wants you trapped in the moment. The doc gives you that whole process that ends with a vision that you're free, plugged into a church, and helping other people.

Even your freedom could lend you to serve missions and spread the gospel further. That's a cool vision to orient your life around. If you're just stuck in the "my phone needs to delete apps" phase, which is important, you don't see the whole picture. The doc can get you there.

Dave Wilson: We got into some stuff today.

Ann Wilson: This is so helpful and so needed. You need to get Jacob's videos, *Parenting and Pornography*. You can get them at our website, familylifetoday.com. We've got him back for tomorrow, so you don't want to miss that. We know life is full of challenges, and families today need biblical truth more than ever.

Dave Wilson: That is true. Let's make a lasting difference together. Become a FamilyLife partner today. Your monthly gift helps bring the truth into homes every single day through podcasts, events, and resources. Just go to familylifetoday.com and click the donate button.

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.