FamilyLife Today®

Brant Hanson: One of the hardest things in my life is hosting a radio show with my wife over here.

Sherri Lynn: What? What are you talking about?

Brant Hanson: I think it's awesome. I'm just saying it's interesting. I never know what you're going to say, and you never know what I'm going to say. It isn't hard at all. It's wonderful. But sometimes it's like...

Sherri Lynn: You just went from one to the other.

Brant Hanson: I wouldn't say hard. Well, yeah. Well, here we are. This is what happens.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com.

Dave Wilson: This is FamilyLife Today.

Ann Wilson: We've got two people in our studio that do this every day. They host a radio show. Brant Hanson and Sherri Lynn are in here together. Sherri, you're the producer of the show.

Sherri Lynn: I am. I put everything together, such as it is, and produce the podcast and everything.

Brant Hanson: I prep the show, so it's called The Brant Hanson Show. There's a reason for that. We could call it Brant and Sherri, but we like calling it The Brant Hanson Show because...

Dave Wilson: Why is that, Brant? Because you're pretty selfish and you like to star?

Brant Hanson: No, it works like... they called it The Andy Griffith Show. We know who the star was, right?

Sherri Lynn: Are you calling me Barney? Because that's an interesting way to start this conversation.

Brant Hanson: Barney Lynn, everyone. But I like the fact that I'm doing the prep and I'm an odd guy, right? So she has to respond in real time to what I've brought to the table.

It's like The Muppet Show kind of thing where most of the time you see through the show. They're trotting things out on stage that are failing, but you see it behind the scenes. I like that vibe where it's like, "Here's this guy trying to do a show and his producer is trying to help him."

Sherri Lynn: He explained that to me when we first met during the interview. He said Muppet Show and I said, "Oh, like Scooter? Scooter's the one with the headset and the clipboard." He was like, "Exactly." I think that's when we were like, "Okay, this show's going to work. He understands me."

Dave Wilson: How did you two end up together? How did this come together?

Brant Hanson: I wanted to be a news guy originally and it just mutated into being a host of a show. She applied for a position to help me, so we Skyped. She had never left Pittsburgh. She's from there.

When we Skyped, my boss was with me and Sherri and I hit it off. We just started laughing about stuff. I had never talked to her before, but it was just instant like, "Wait, I get this."

We have very similar backgrounds even though she's Black and I'm white. She's single and I'm married. We have very similar church in an analogous way, similar experiences. Both have a brother. We both developed these strange senses of humor.

Ann Wilson: Sherri, what is your background? Fill us in.

Sherri Lynn: I started out when I went to college wanting to do film. Then somebody let me in a radio station on the college campus and I was sold. That's all I wanted to do, nothing else.

I make things. I like to make things. I would make dramas, I would do different voices, I'd bring people in and let them do voices, and put this big dramatic thing together. That's why producing is really up my alley.

Ann Wilson: And you're a creative, it sounds like.

Sherri Lynn: I love making things.

Dave Wilson: When you came to The Brant Hanson Show, were you just going to produce and not be on air, or was it always a little of both?

Sherri Lynn: I tell the story where they explained to me that this was not an on-air position, and they kept saying that. I was like, "Okay, that's fine," because I had been through so much in my career—not great stuff—that I prayed to God, "If You just put me with somebody humble and smart, then I'll serve." I did not go there thinking I was going to be on the air, but he always thought...

Brant Hanson: Absolutely. I never wanted to be a host. So having another person on the air to me is a huge help. This is why so many team radio shows are so horrible, honestly. They don't listen.

If you're on with somebody who listens to what you just said and then can respond to it, well that's wonderful. But if it's just two people who have their own agendas, neither of you are funny.

Ann Wilson: And we can all feel that you're trying to one-up each other.

Sherri Lynn: Right. And he reminded me so much—and still does—of my brother, which is a real dry sense of humor. It's very funny to me. So sometimes I'll jump the gun and laugh because I know where we're going.

Then people think she's just laughing. It's funny to me because I know where it's going and it's so dry. I just know the sense of humor so well that we just mesh together.

Dave Wilson: Because you said earlier when we were having lunch that if something's not funny to you, you don't laugh.

Sherri Lynn: No. I told you guys that I was demoted and taken off the air with a morning show. I was taken off the air because I would not laugh.

The host would say things that he thought was funny and that he clearly thought that I should think was funny, and I didn't think it was funny. He would give a space. He would go into a pause and I would just sit there. Then he would sheepishly come back in and then go into a song.

My program director would call and say, "Sherri, you've got to laugh. You've got to try to laugh." I said, "It's not funny to me. None of it is funny to me." And they took me off the air. I've lost money for not laughing, so I'm not making it up.

Ann Wilson: Well, your laughter is authentic.

Dave Wilson: I was going to say, you must think Brant's funny because one of the things I love about your show is your laugh. It's joy-giving.

Sherri Lynn: Thank you.

Brant Hanson: We're glad you think that. It is joy-giving for some people. At first they're like, "What is happening? I hate you guys." I just got one yesterday. We get them all the time. "I hated you guys at first, but now you've worn on me. Now I love you, but boy did I hate you."

That always still stings a little bit. But I understand because we don't sound like typical radio people. I'm on the spectrum. I've been diagnosed with high-functioning autism. I do sound different on the air and my choice of topics is a little bit like, "Wow, that was deeper than we expected," or kind of blunt.

How did we go from there to that? A random sense of humor that's so far out. So I know I sound different. She comes in with this boisterous laugh. She's got totally different sensibilities than me when it comes to just background and her family and my family. It's really exciting how it meshes, but at first it's really bracing to people.

Sherri Lynn: And it was bracing to me when people would say, "Oh, I love your laugh," or "I hate your laugh." I had never considered my laugh, ever, because my whole family laughs like this.

I never once thought that there was anything unique or different about it. It's just the way I laugh. One time we went to his house. It was the first time my family visited me in California.

Ann Wilson: And your family's close.

Sherri Lynn: We are very close and we're very loud, very, very loud. So I said to him, "Look, I'm bringing some energy to your house that's going to be different than what you're used to." He's like, "No, it's okay."

So they just from the door just literally [laughs]. They've never met him. And he said that the next day his neighbors said they were having a party and he never heard them.

Brant Hanson: They were young people having a party. They said we had to shut the window because whatever was going on over at your house... it was just her family being joyful, just being joyous.

Ann Wilson: I want to hang out with your family.

Brant Hanson: They are fun to hang out with.

Dave Wilson: What about the white man, Black woman thing? How does that work? That is a beautiful thing.

Brant Hanson: It's a great thing. It's helped me immensely. Whenever you have relationships with people, whatever their sensibilities are you start to own. That's been really helpful.

I think it's been instructive too. For me, it's so nice to just have a shared project that's a kingdom thing. Because it's one thing to say, "Let's get together and talk about race. Let's have some Black people and some white people, we'll come to a table that's round."

Sherri Lynn: Maybe if you'll start talking at a square table we can get something together, but it's a round table. It's just dialogue.

Brant Hanson: I guess that's okay, but it's like, no, let's do stuff together shoulder to shoulder. I'm sure you experience this with athletics. There's something bonding about "our coach just yelled at all of us" or "we've got this common thing that we're working on together."

In the process, you work through stuff, but you're on each other's side. So it's the shoulder-to-shoulder thing. For us, it's a daily having to work, so it's not even a... you should talk about it too.

Sherri Lynn: Well, no, it's something that you talked about in your book where knowledge doesn't change people's hearts, relationship does. I lived as a lot of African Americans do, which I always say, we parachute into the majority quote-unquote world.

We live in our community and then we parachute in and we work, and then we go back to our community. But we think we know... I'll say me. I think I know more than I actually do because I didn't have any actual friends that were white, if I can be honest.

I learned a lot of stuff in history and all that, and then you think you know because I read this book and this book is majority about white people. So I'm like, "Okay, yeah, then I know now." But then when the relationship comes, that's different.

Then when people start to say things, it's like, "Wait a minute, you're talking about my brother." That's different now. "Wait, no, my brother doesn't do that. My brother doesn't say that. My brother doesn't think that."

But that comes from relationship and it comes from us. Sometimes we have not done a show. We come into the studio and something's going on in the world or something has blown up racially. We'll put "Best Of" material on and we have to talk it through.

We argue for two hours and you go, "You know what? Tomorrow's going to be a Best Of. We don't have the energy to do the show." But man, I wish I could give that to people.

Ann Wilson: Well, you trust each other enough to be able to have that dialogue.

Brant Hanson: Right, so that's just it. You have to be engaged in mission together. It can't just be... if we just got together every week, even if it had been over ten years, like, "Let's talk about race issues," that's doomed. But we're working together as part of one body to be a blessing to people.

Ann Wilson: And Brant, you're not only working together. One of the things you said over lunch, Sherri, was that your family is super close. You left them and now you're living in Florida. At the time no family members were there. But you said Brant's family has become my family.

Sherri Lynn: Yeah, they were my family. That's all I had. When I left Pittsburgh, I took the job and I'm not married, I don't have kids, it was just me. So I would just go over their house.

Sometimes I pop... my family is a "pop-in" family. Then just in and we're there until we feel like we want to leave. I didn't do that, but I would pop in. They were so gracious and wonderful.

Ann Wilson: He was more than a co-worker.

Sherri Lynn: Oh, absolutely. That's my brother. He's my brother. My mother calls him her son. My mother was in the hospital and she knew Brant was going to be on Good Morning America.

She told every single person on that floor, every nurse's aide, every nurse, every doctor that came in, "My son is going to be on Good Morning America. If y'all want to watch it, y'all can come in the room with me and we're going to watch it together."

It never dawned on me that a white man's face was going to pop up there to this very African American woman sitting in this bed. The anchor was Black, so he was interviewing... "Is that your son?" They were like, "No." Then they put his face up. She's like, "There he is!" They were like, "Did you adopt him?"

My mother thinks very much of him as her son. Sometimes I'll go to work and she'll be riding with me because she wants to drive somewhere else and she'll say, "Tell my son to come down and give me a hug." He'll come down and give her a hug.

Again, I wish I could give this to people because this is the actual work. Relationship is the actual work. It is. And if you can get to that in a place where we both say Jesus is Lord and Calvary is the central thing for both of us. Not identity, not politics, not all of that stuff. Calvary is the central thing for both of us and we're working in mission together. It is just the sweetest thing.

Brant Hanson: The way we talk about it too is like... and we would hope that the entire body of Christ would talk about it would be Calvary is the last word.

People talk about, "Yeah, Calvary, but this issue. Yeah, Calvary, but this other thing. Yeah, Calvary, but we need to discuss this." I'm like, no, it's that issue, but Calvary. That's it.

Yeah, that's a real issue. We should talk about it, but Calvary happened. That has to matter. If that's the basis, we've got hope because it's like, "Yeah, maybe my side's messed up, your side's messed up. Maybe I said this wrong or you said that wrong."

Right. But Calvary happened.

Sherri Lynn: And that's how we stay together. That's how we stay connected. It's never... I never have to pretend like something isn't happening.

I never have to pretend like something didn't hurt or something I saw doesn't sting or like, "Man, how do I get past that?" That's why we can go in the studio. That's why we can talk about it because of Calvary.

I don't have to act like it didn't happen. Yes, it did. And yes, it does hurt. But what glues us together—it's supposed to be for the body of Christ—is... I don't even know if it's popular to say anymore, but it's the blood of Jesus, right?

Brant Hanson: It's interesting too because your heart does tend toward people you have relationships with to defend them, for instance. "That's my friend you're talking about."

An interesting dynamic of that is we're on a lot of stations, mostly white people listening because we're playing CCM Nashville music on these stations. But now they know Sherri, the listeners.

Even if they're in an all-white type situation, they've got relationships. We hear from people like this too, where before they had this knee-jerk reaction to certain things, but now they have a relationship with Sherri.

If they hear Sherri say something, it may be, "But that's my friend. I have to listen to that." It's a very sweet dynamic that can happen there because radio is so relational that it is a friendship.

We're being honest on the air and vulnerable, so people do feel like it's a friendship. But they grant Sherri that space if she says something that they wouldn't have agreed with before. But now it's like, "But that's Sherri. She's got a point."

In some ways you are going to represent—just like you're going to represent white—your voice is going to represent, "Well, that's sort of how white people think," although it's not true. But you're going to represent, "That's how a person of color thinks. I can validate that because I like her and she represents it."

They don't know anybody and there's no person in their life. They just have what was fed to them on the news or the worst behavior of the worst people in the world.

Sherri Lynn: Which is what everybody has. Regardless of race, we're segregated now as far as just isolation. We don't have those friendships. We don't have those relationships.

We always talk about a gracious place to fall. Like, say something and be like, "Oh, that didn't come out right." I remember I tell a story how I made a social media post about some Black film or something and I thought it was just rip-roaring hilarious. It was the funniest thing ever because in every Black family, friends, "Go ahead girl."

He screenshotted it and he sent it to me and he said, "This makes me sad." As soon as I saw it, I read it like he would have read it. I was like, "Oh, I am so sorry."

Now I can dig in my heels and be like, "Well then you get off your high horse." I can do that if I want to, right? We can do that. But that's my brother and I saw what he saw.

A lot of times we're posting things, we're doing things to our little corner of the world, our little group of people. But when you expand that net, then you start thinking... and then if you don't think, you have that relationship where someone's like, "Here's how I see that." And then I'm like, "You know what? That's legit." And just take it down. I'm sorry. That was wrong. I'm sorry.

Brant Hanson: I was preaching years ago and I made a comment in a sermon, something along the lines of another religious belief, and I said, "Can you believe people actually believe that?" and went on.

Guy came up—he was actually back in the days when you did skits—he was an actor and very good. He comes up to me in the green room and he goes, "Hey, can I say something to you?" "Sure man, what's up man? Hey, we're brothers."

He goes, "That was really offensive what you said about some people, 'can you believe they believe that?' like they're idiots." I go, "Well, yeah, can you believe people believe that?" He goes, "My mom believes that. And I'm thinking about bringing her next week. She'll never come to this church."

And I'm like, "You are 1,000 percent right." I'm tearing right now. It was like, "Thank you for pointing that out."

Sherri Lynn: See, but that's relationship. You have a gracious place to fall. Man, I fell there and then you just get up. I always tell him I let him fall and then when he gets up I punch him in the mouth and then he falls again and then gets up. But it's a gracious place to be.

Brant Hanson: I had a guy who's older than me, he heard me say something on the air immediately after this morning show was on. I was trying to be funny. He calls me and he's like, "Don't ever let me hear you say something like that again. That was disappointing. You made fun of people. They didn't deserve that."

Ann Wilson: And Brant, you're live, right?

Brant Hanson: Yes. This but he called me after the show. He said, "Hanson, you're better than that. I love you. Bye." I got off the phone and the weirdest thing happened. That stung but thank you. That feels pretty good in the strangest way because I know that guy loves me. We have a relationship. When you are in a relationship with people you can actually have that. You can sort through this stuff together.

Dave Wilson: One of the reasons, Brant, I didn't know you the first time we brought you in and we were talking about *The Men We Need*... you wrote a foreword?

Brant Hanson: Sherri wrote the foreword.

Sherri Lynn: Sherri wrote a foreword endorsement.

Dave Wilson: I remember reading that and going, "Okay, he's the real deal," because of what you said. Because you basically said, do you remember?

Sherri Lynn: I remember saying that I told him to write the book because I saw men responding to him. I grew up with my own issues with my father who was very abusive and went through a lot.

I said, "If this weren't the real deal, I wouldn't be working with him. And if he dared write a book... I'd burn that whole studio to the ground. I'm not just leaving. I'm making sure you can't do anything else."

Dave Wilson: I specifically remember you saying, "I've been in his home. What he writes here, he lives." I'm like, "Done, let's go."

Sherri Lynn: And then I saw his daughter and his wife were safe. I never knew that growing up. I always felt from my own point of view, my own background, that the measure of a man when I saw him was how his daughter looked at him.

If she looked at him and she had even an ounce of fear, I felt like we should all be afraid. But if she looked at him and I saw safety in her eyes, then I knew he was trustworthy. The minute I walked in his house and I saw Julia look at him, I was like, "All right, well, we're okay." And that was probably like first few days of working together.

Ann Wilson: Has there been some healing in you as you have watched him with his kids?

Sherri Lynn: I think there's been healing with him and if I'm honest there's been so much healing watching my actual brother with his girls and knowing how we grew up. He's a good dad.

Brant Hanson: Five stars. He's unbelievable. I admire her brother as well because when you're both from this background where you're afraid when your dad comes home, or "I hope he doesn't, I just need some peace."

Then you see that car pull up. So you live out the opposite of that as a guy who's like, "That's not going to happen to my..." so being able to come home and your kid's like, "Daddy!" They're excited. "What's the next joke going to be? What's the next fun thing going to be?"

Like I told you guys, they'll listen to our podcast. My kids will listen to the podcast. But that's her brother. He's the exact opposite of what they had gone through and complete respect that in his daughters feel totally safe with him. So yeah, very amazing to watch.

Sherri Lynn: I saw my little niece, she's so delightful. And I told my brother, "If I'd had you as a dad I could have been delightful." I missed that boat.

Dave Wilson: Well, I think you're pretty delightful.

Sherri Lynn: Oh, well, thank you.

Dave Wilson: Your kids are fighting again.

Ann Wilson: Yep.

Dave Wilson: Somebody spilled something sticky.

Ann Wilson: The coffee's cold and suddenly you're angry before 9:00 AM.

Dave Wilson: If you've ever wondered, "Why do I keep reacting this way?" you're not alone. We've got author and mama of four, Janel Breitenstein. She did a five-session video series designed just for you moms to help you get to the root of your anger.

Let me tell you, Janel has brutal honesty, humor, biblical truth, and practical help. She explores triggers, fears, and whether anger can ever be godly and why our kids bring out so much in us.

Ann Wilson: We all need this, so sign up free at familylife.com/momanger.

Dave Wilson: Something that hit me about... we're a marriage and family show. When you talked about how the diversity works for you, white-Black together, you said it's not because we're talking about race, it's because we're doing something together.

I thought in marriage we do the same thing. It's like, "I want to change him, so I'm going to focus on changing him. I'm going to change her." Get on mission together as a married couple. Get your focus outward on extending the Kingdom of God.

By the way, that's God's mission for your marriage anyway. You'll love each other because you'll be doing something together rather than trying to focus on this. Focus on something bigger than this. Am I right?

Brant Hanson: 100 percent. I think that's true of friendships, church stuff too. If it's not just about getting together and talking over and over and over... there's nothing like being shoulder to shoulder out actually doing something together, engaged in a mission. That's co-mission. That's great.

Ann Wilson: Brant's book is called *The Truth About Us: The Very Good News About How Very Bad We Are*.

Dave Wilson: And you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com.

Ann Wilson: We know life is full of challenges and families today need biblical truth more than ever. Isn't that true?

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Ann Wilson: FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.