FamilyLife Today®

--Ann Wilson--

We tell ourselves a lot of things that are not true.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Yeah.

--Ann Wilson--

And one was like, they don't wanna hear this. They don't wanna be bothered with this. I'm still talking about this. I haven't gotten over it. They don't they don't wanna be here for me. And that's not true. Your friends, your community, they love you. They wanna hear. They wanna be able to help. And sometimes we need someone to give us the hug and sometimes we need someone to give us that hug and a hard word of, okay, sis, like what are you gonna do today? And so we rob ourselves of the beauty of that when we stay by ourselves.

--Dave Wilson--

Welcome to FamilyLife Today where we wanna help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

--Ann Wilson--

And I'm Ann Wilson and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

--Dave Wilson--

Going to bed last night late, got a big day ahead of us. I'm just literally like, I'm so ready to go to sleep and Ann goes, hey, uh.

--Ann Wilson--

You're just crawling to bed.

--Dave Wilson--

Oh, I was literally.

--Ann Wilson--

And I said, hey, you know, I heard the furnace. Like I opened the door and it's dripping water.

--Dave Wilson--

I'm like, no. And sure enough, there's water dripping out of through the filter into the pan. And, you know, we're in Florida and I didn't know this about Florida, but you have to get a shop vac and suck out the the drain line that goes outside, like every two months because they run so much, it gets stuck.

--Ann Wilson--

I don't know, but I just closed the bedroom door and I could hear banging, I could hear him outside.

--Dave Wilson--

I mean, I had to do it. I'm like, we're not gonna have any AC all night and I'm out there midnight and I remember thinking, I did not sign up for this. This is not the life I want. I do not want to do this. I could do this at 8 AM or 7 AM.

--Ann Wilson--

I am so grateful that you did. But think about this.

--Dave Wilson--

But I got it done, didn't I?

--Ann Wilson--

You did.

--Ann Wilson--

Think about if you had to do that over and over and over. And after two weeks, you're still doing it.

--Dave Wilson--

Well, I probably will be in two weeks. That's all I know. I mean, all that to say, we're talking about hardship today and that's really not a hardship. I mean, getting a shop vac out and it took care of everything and we were good in 20 minutes. Although, I had to jump in the pool because I was full of sweat and I can't sleep.

--Ann Wilson--

No.

--Ann Wilson--

But we had Elizabeth Woodson back.

--Dave Wilson--

You're like, stop talking, Dave.

--Ann Wilson--

In the studio, Elizabeth, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Yeah, thanks for having me.

--Ann Wilson--

And your book called Embrace Your Life. It hears the subtitle. It's so good. How to Find Joy when the life you have is not the life you hoped for. Every single person at some point in their life will feel like that. Like, I never expected this. I never wanted this.

--Dave Wilson--

The subtitle, how to find joy? Come on. How to find peace? How to be okay? You literally pick the word joy in the middle of hardship. Okay, you're laughing. You got, I mean, I'm sure you thought about this for hours and days and weeks.

--Ann Wilson--

If you didn't hear yesterday, go back because we get into some really practical things too.

--Dave Wilson--

But you're you're taking a little too far. Come on.

--Ann Wilson--

And you're a speaker, you're a communicator, you're a Bible study writer. So you've thought about this for a while. So why the word joy?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

I laugh because that's the last thing people want. Yeah. In a place of hardship, I want joy. I want to be happy. But I I think that that is the key for us to not lose ourselves when we're in those places. To me, joy encompasses the other things. So it encompasses hope. Uh, it encompasses the things we need to move forward. And so to me, joy is this anchor. People who have joy in the midst of difficulty handle it differently than people who don't.

--Ann Wilson--

And aren't they attractive?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

They are.

--Ann Wilson--

Like when you talk to somebody that, you know, their life is falling apart, they've lost someone that they loved, and there's not the happiness, but there's a trust and a contentment in your soul and you're like, I need that. I want that. How do you get that?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Yeah.

--Dave Wilson--

So you said yesterday, you know, going to live with your grandparents and they both died, were you able to find joy?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Yes, and and on the way. I always say because everything is to me what I want people to know is I'm not suggesting it's something immediate, but after

--Ann Wilson--

You're not a quick fixer.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

I'm not a quick fixer. After whatever thing happens that is causing us disappointment, it's not like, oh, it's, you know, that I have this superficial joyful attitude. But what I knew is my grandparents were with the Lord. And so for me, in my situation, there is this anchor to my faith in God where my joy is attached to. It's like, God, you're gonna be with me in this place that I thinking about all the wonderful memories I had with them. My one grandmother, um, she had cancer. And so at a certain point, cancer just is, I always say it's mean. It just is it's mean. And I don't want you here suffering. And so it's knowing that my grandmother is healed as she's with the Lord. It's not easy. It's not a quick fix, but I do believe the Lord, uh, brought me joy in that place that's not this bubbly happiness, but it is this deep-seated contentment on the things of God. And to me, that's where the joy comes from.

--Dave Wilson--

How is the journey to joy through the tunnel of lament? Like are there moments when we, I mean, hopefully we get to joy, but we're not there yet, or is it okay to just cry out and be mad or angry or complaining to God?

--Ann Wilson--

How would you even define lament? That anything else?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Anything else? Crying out to God, uh, and I think many times it's crying to God for what we believe things he has not done and he said he was gonna do. What we have in scripture, which I love is is the book of Psalms. And the Psalms, sometimes you read through them and you'd be like, man, that sounds a little wild.

--Dave Wilson--

Yeah. Exactly.

--Ann Wilson--

He sounds depressed.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

He sounds depressed. He's like, he talking to God like that? Yeah. Uh, and

--Ann Wilson--

Angry.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Angry and saying, God, you said you were gonna be faithful to us. And so Israel has real covenant promises, they are holding on to God for. And what you see is that the fact that they're present there, to me, is an illustration from God that this is okay.

--Ann Wilson--

Yeah.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

That it's okay for you to be a little frustrated. It's okay for you even to be angry. Um, we do everything in honor of the sovereignty and bigness of God. But that we're honest with our emotions because he already knows what we're thinking anyway. So that we would just have the space to process that with him. I think a lament, this crying out to God and Lord, you haven't met my expectations, you haven't fulfilled my promises. Psalm 13 to me shows this really beautiful journey that David takes in that place of lament. And it starts with frustration and it ends with worship. I don't think it's immediate, but I do think that that shows us something about what it means to process the big feelings with God.

--Ann Wilson--

You talk about people, how people are important too as we walk through lament or just hardship.

--Dave Wilson--

Embrace help.

--Ann Wilson--

Yeah. How do you do that?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

I think sometimes it is the last thing you want to do because sometimes people can be unhelpful. You know, they're like, stop talking, Dave. People say the, you know, some crazy stuff when bad things happen and we make promises that are not things that we're in control of. And so I get it when people are like, I don't know if I want to tell people about what's going on. But what I have seen is sometimes the just being present with someone. I don't have to have all the answers, but that I am just physically present, I bring a meal, I sit and I just listen. And being able to share without shame and judgment what's going on in your life, to be able to express all those things to me is healthy probably for reasons that even science would tell us, if it's not just bottled up inside of us. But that I get to have someone who just grieves with me something that was really bad.

--Ann Wilson--

Yeah.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

That you're just like, we're not gonna sugarcoat this, we're not gonna put a bow on it. And we live a God, we have serve a God who is grieved with this too. He doesn't want this world like this. That's why he sent Jesus. And so I think there is power in that. I've seen a lot of lament happen in song. So singing together and singing um worship songs or even I think about the old hymns that I grew up on or even Negro spirituals that I grew up on, where we're singing about the hardships of life, but also singing about the trueness of God. And it is the voices of the people around me that give me strength. Um, and I think there's just something happens there that I don't have the full words to explain, but going through difficulty with other people gives us the strength to me that I believe is grounded in who God is.

--Dave Wilson--

How do we go to people when we don't want to?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

I think that's an element of being courageous. Uh, again, it's these aspects of community are hard to jump into when it's non-existent in your life.

--Dave Wilson--

Good point.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

And so I think, you know, it's easier to.

--Dave Wilson--

Build it before.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Build it before. But even still, if we are part of a community of believers that we can go to a minister, to a leader and say, I just need to talk with you. We go to the people who we know. They love us and care for us. We tell ourselves a lot of things that are not true.

--Dave Wilson--

Yeah.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

And one was like, they don't wanna hear this. They don't wanna be bothered with this. I'm still talking about this. I haven't gotten over it. They don't they don't wanna be here for me. And that's not true. Your friends, your community, they love you. They wanna hear. They wanna be able to help. And sometimes we need someone to give us the hug and sometimes we need someone to give us that hug and a hard word of, okay, sis, like what are you gonna do today? What step are you taking today? Um, because they know us and know what we need. And so we rob ourselves of the beauty of that when we stay by ourselves.

--Ann Wilson--

At FamilyLife, we get to hear stories from couples and families whose lives have been changed through what God is doing through FamilyLife. And that is incredible for us to get to hear. Sometimes it begins at one of our marriage events. Other times, it's through a podcast, a resource, or just a simple conversation that reminds someone, they're not alone. However it begins, we're seeing God bring hope, healing, and encouragement to families every single day. And that's why we'd like to invite you to partner with us. Whether you've been giving faithfully for years or this would be your very first gift, your generosity helps more couples and families discover practical, biblical guidance and experience the hope of the Gospel. Together, we can help more marriages grow stronger, equip more parents, and encourage more families to flourish. And if you believe every family can have that kind of hope, would you consider making a gift today? Just click the donate button at familylifetoday.com. That's familylifetoday.com.

--Dave Wilson--

How do you embrace loss and embrace hope?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Yeah.

--Dave Wilson--

It's like they're they're contradictory, you know, it's like, first of all, I don't wanna embrace loss. I almost wanna deny it. I lost a child, I lost my marriage, I lost, you know, my future, my whatever. I just wanna move on, but you're like, no, you sort of gotta embrace that, but at the same time, there's hope. It's like, no, that they don't go together. They're later. But you're like, to how do you do it together?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Yeah.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

In the book, I I take the journey with Joshua. In Joshua has a really unique story. He comes into a pivotal moment of leadership after Moses dies. And I'm always like, how was that? Like you have served with this person for 40 years and they're not here anymore. What you have in Joshua one is I I feel like God takes Joshua kind of through this like these movements of like, how do they process? Israel grieves the death of Moses, but God gives all these promises about who he is and what he's gonna do for Joshua. And to me, it is hope and the loss between those are me moving through these things of like, lamenting, dealing with my pain, remembering what's true about God and really standing in he says he will be with me forever. At that moment, um, and you find God say to Joshua, it's time for you to move forward. And I think there's a moment where the Lord does that for us. And he says, I've given you all the truth, it's time for you to move forward in the things because there's still life for you to live. And to me, that's where the hope is found. It's found in, oh, what do I have through Jesus? But to me, that's not, it's some folks, it's immediate. But I think for many of us, it's this process of uh, time with the Lord, time in prayer, living in community, and the the flickering flames of hope start to emerge, um, and we can walk in that.

--Ann Wilson--

It's funny, my, um, one of my really, really good friends, and we're friends with them as a couple, but she was walking with her daughter early in the morning, and she was hit by a car. This just happened a few months ago. And she is this vibrant. She just finished seminary, but she has four kids. She's she has her own business. And, um, she has extensive brain damage and she's still in the hospital recovering. And it's very, very slow. But it's been interesting to watch, like Dave and I just went to see her again and her husband was there. And you can see he's in the midst of despair.

--Dave Wilson--

He's in the valley. And he's a doctor, so he knows the details. Like he knows, you know, you don't just make up stuff like she's gonna be okay. He knows the reality that it could be bad.

--Ann Wilson--

And even as we visit, there's something about someone else being there as we pray together and pray over her and then worship together. It's all the things you're talking about, Elizabeth, like, I'm grateful that we have that, but I'm imagining if they as a family didn't have anybody. They have 50 people coming. They have a signup sheet of all the people that are visiting her because they've invested so much time and energy into people and into Jesus. But I'm imagining the listeners thinking, like, I have nobody. You don't understand. I don't know anybody. Even my family is estranged. Where do they even start if they're in the valley by themselves?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

I remember a situation, it was around the pandemic and it was one of these weepy days. And I was like, Lord, I just really need you to show up for me. Um, and at that moment.

--Ann Wilson--

So you asked that, you prayed that.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

I I prayed that. I was like, Lord, I need you to show up.

--Ann Wilson--

I pray that same thing. I'm like, Lord, I need something today.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

I need something today. Like, I know you do the right now answers. I need a right now answer. And I had a friend at that moment text me and she was like, hey, do you need prayer? Like I just feel like the Holy Spirit, you know, put you on my heart. Is there anything you need prayer for? And I'm a voice text person, so like, voice text later, like the whole paragraph. I was like, you should have just called her. Um, you know, and I just shared in that moment what was going on. And she prayed for me and it was great. But what what was um, encouraging to me was that God reached out by the power of the Holy Spirit to someone else across the country.

--Ann Wilson--

Really? She's across the country.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

She's across the country. She's in a totally different state. She's in DC, I'm in Texas, and she responded to the Holy Spirit and she just reached out to me. And so what I believe is when God says he is with us, he can bring somebody. Like that's who we are as the hands and feet. So when God prompts, the Holy Spirit prompts us to, you know, go talk to someone, to be encouraging someone, you don't know what they need. And so even if you don't have anyone, you have God. And God can move anyone to come to you.

--Dave Wilson--

Oh, that's good. Yeah, I think we forget who God is in trial, in hardship. And you have a whole section, you're like, you gotta remember who you are and who God is.

--Ann Wilson--

Let's talk about that.

--Dave Wilson--

Talk about that. How do you who is God?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Yeah, just remind us. Uh, there's a couple of attributes of his that I unpack in the book. Um, the the list is endless. But first, he's sovereign, um, which means that he's all powerful and nothing's outside of his control. So I think about the lies we'll tell ourselves.

--Ann Wilson--

Yeah, like, well then why did he let this happen?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Right. It's the question of why do bad things happen to good people? And it's a complicated question, but what we need to know is the bad things don't happen because of God. The bad things happen because of sin. That we will do ourselves or sin that we experience some other people that God doesn't turn a blind eye to that and he's able both now to deal with it, but we also know that he deals with that in ultimate way through Jesus. That's what our scriptures tell us. But the scripture say, God's arm is not too short. Like nothing is impossible for him. And what will will will stifle us is believing he can't do it. He's not gonna do it. He's not gonna come through. I have too many stories of doors opening in my life that had no handles on the outside. So there was nothing I could have done to get that job or to get that interview or to get that opportunity, but he works something out and his power to me encourages me for those for different seasons where I need to be reminded that he can do it. So he's sovereign. Another one is his his love for us. Scripture tells a story of how God created us out of the overflow of his love and pursues humanity and ultimately through the power of Jesus, saves us for eternity. All of that so that we could experience. I like to use the word Shalom. It's wholeness, it is this perfection that we see a glimpse of in Genesis, we see it in ultimate sense in Revelation. God's love for me is that deep that he's never gonna let me go and that nothing that I could do is gonna make him kick me to the curb. Those are two things, you know, there's a sense of, you know, how do we deal with God being eternal, like all these things that omnipotent, uh, all the omnis we could talk about, uh, but to me it's that he is powerful enough to do anything. And his love means that he's also compassionate, he cares. He cares about my sad moments. And he cares about me when I just I always say like you walk with a limp, like you just I can't I can't be at full speed 'cause I'm a little broken. Um, that his love is present with us in those moments too.

--Dave Wilson--

Yeah, and you mentioned before, I mean, there's got to be a surrender to the sovereignty of God. That doctrine sometimes is really hard to wrap my arms to embrace. When everything's good, I yeah, God's sovereign, but when it isn't, it's like, seriously, yeah, it's almost like you wanna throw away the theology like, come on, that's a childhood belief that he's really all powerful and in control because these bad things keep happening. How do you hold on to that?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

For me, I'm I'm a person, I'm always gonna come back to to the stories of scripture. And what I've learned is God is a lot more patient with us than we are with ourselves. And he is more patient to change people slowly over time than situations quickly that frustrates us to no end. But he is like and his plan, I don't understand it. Scripture says his ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts. And I don't want to say that sounding super spiritual and sugary sweet. It legitimately is that God is changing things. Scripture shows me that, the way he changes things over time. But even in the things he doesn't change now, scripture points me to an eternity where all those things will be shifted into goodness. And as a believer, that's the path I'm called to walk on. And life outside of that gets difficult when I can't embrace the timing of God.

--Dave Wilson--

I lost my little brother when I was seven. He was five with leukemia. And single mom, dad was already gone, so raised by just my mom and she tended to sort of not talk about it. Like you don't talk about it, you don't have to deal with it. And yet as I look back, she somehow embraced hope. And you know, losing a child is gonna be one of the hardest things ever and recently in a church that we started in Detroit 30 years ago. A family that just is a pillar of our community. And uh their college-aged son was standing on a curb on the campus at Michigan State and a hit and run, somebody hit him and killed him. And drove off. But this is what um Gina, his mom wrote and it was read at the funeral. She wrote this, Early Sunday morning on November 5th, the enemy of my soul, Satan launched a violent attack against my family and community. And our campus is severely wounded. It was an act of war. Jesus warned us of this war. In Ephesians 6:10-17. We are told to put on the full armor of God so that we can stand against the schemes of the devil. It explains who and what we are actually fighting against, that it isn't flesh and blood like we think, but a powerful dark forces in a spiritual realm that we cannot see. This scripture also promises that after the battle, we will be standing firm. Jesus himself says in John 16:33, that in this life you will have many trials and sorrows, but to take heart because he has overcome the world. I have placed my faith and trust in Jesus as my God and Savior and I've been following him for a very long time. He has been so good and faithful to me, even though hardship has come. I have no reason to believe that his everlasting love, goodness, greatness, and grace will ever run out in my life. While I cannot explain the whys and hows of what has happened, I have learned enough to know that I can trust Jesus with my pain and that he will use his resurrection power to bring beauty from the ashes. I will see the promised victory over this battle that God has pre-warned me about and I will be reunited with my sweet son again when God receives me in his timing. Until then, I will battle onward, knowing that I will never be alone because Jesus is with me always. The counterattack on Satan will make him wish he never heard the Vacaros' name. I am wounded and weak right now, but I will bring my hurting to the great physician and let him prescribe my healing. I will accept the comfort of his Holy Spirit that he has promised. I will claim the peace that surpasses understanding that is promised to those who are in Christ Jesus. I will commit to comfort others who are hurting with the same comfort I have received from him. Jesus, let me see and feel you close to the brokenhearted like you promised. I mean that's hard to say and write in the middle of that valley within days of the death of her son. Any thoughts?

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Yeah, to me, when I hear you read that, like I hear where our hope is girded in. And there is this reality of the war that we're in. The hard stuff that we experience is ultimately connected to the enemy and the things that seek to thwart the things of God. But she also connects to this reality that all those dark things have an end date on them. There's an end date to our pain, there's an end date to our sadness, there's an end date to grief. There's not an end date to life with the Lord. And that she will be reunited with her son. Until then, we wore on, knowing that the great physician will provide her the healing that she needs. And that's just really powerful, the humanity of it, but the perspective we have based upon the truth of scripture.

--Ann Wilson--

It's our foundation, the rock and the hope of Jesus. I'm just wondering if you'll just pray. I'm sure there's so many people that just need prayer as they're battling right now.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Father, we just thank you that we have the opportunity to speak to you. Um and I pray for the listeners who are going through their own Valley, a dark night of the soul, the things, the unimaginable has happened to them. And I pray that you would be the comforter. I pray that you would bring uh a balm to their soul. I pray that you would show up and bring them the comfort and support, uh tangible things even in your people. That you would have the people of God show up uh and provide them with the things that they need, but their hope would be grounded in you. And they would see you do what you always do, which is provide, which is sustain, but their eyes would ultimately be on you. There's an end date to all the hard things that we deal with in this life. But there's never an end date to the life with you. And that is what we find joy in. In your son's holy name we pray. Amen.

--Ann Wilson--

Amen.

--Elizabeth Woodson--

Amen.

--Ann Wilson--

I think that was a great way just to end with Elizabeth Woodson because man, we all need this. Again, her book is called Embrace Your Life. How to Find Joy when the life you have is not the life you hoped for. Couldn't we all use that, right? So you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com. Hey, we wanna make sure that you know the back to small group sale. Did you hear that? The back to small group sale ends August 31st. And that's 25% off every FamilyLife video study and workbook and you don't need a code. You just go to familylife.com/shop.

--Dave Wilson--

Any study, Art of Marriage, Vertical Marriage, Art of Parenting. We've got them there for you and uh you can get them at a discount.

--Ann Wilson--

There's not much time left. Sale ends August 31st.

--Dave Wilson--

If you're like me, you'll be clicking that link right now. FamilyLife.com/shop. FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru Ministry. 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.