FamilyLife Today®

Emily Jensen: Every mom, God is calling her to her motherhood, to her family, her husband. That is going to look differently. You even see that now in Christian culture. Sometimes a specific lifestyle or a specific method is held up as the one best way, the holiest way to mother. It looks so good, but what if I can't recreate that because someone is a single mom, or they have a child with a disability?

Laura Wifler: There are a myriad of reasons why that might not transfer to another mom's life. It is not about fitting into the box of what my friend does. It is about following the Lord and asking for His wisdom in whatever life He's given me.

Dave Wilson: Welcome to FamilyLife Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson.

Ann Wilson: And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is FamilyLife Today.

Dave Wilson: We are talking about motherhood today. Should we go back to the hole in the wall when our kids were little toddlers? I don't know why that came to my mind.

Ann Wilson: For those of you that haven't heard, we haven't talked about this in years and we don't need to talk about it. That was just a bad moment in parenting when I kicked a hole in the wall out of my frustration with our three children. Then she patched it up with wallpaper so that Pastor Dave, when he came in the house, wouldn't see it. It was not one of my finest moments. The boys ran right to it the second I walked in. "Look at Mom did! She's so strong! You won't believe what Mom did today!"

You know what I remember about that moment? Feeling utter shame going to bed. I remember apologizing to the boys. "Guys, I shouldn't have done that. I'm so sorry." As a young mom and as an older mom, one of the things that we can carry is shame and guilt. It is a heavy thing to carry.

Dave Wilson: Today we're not talking about fallen motherhood. That was a fallen motherhood moment. We're talking about risen motherhood. I know a lot of our listeners know these two women. It's pretty great because we have Emily Jensen and Laura Wifler with us today. You're a hero to many, especially young moms who are struggling. Welcome to FamilyLife Today.

Emily Jensen: Thank you for having us. It's a joy to be here.

Laura Wifler: We are so excited to be here.

Emily Jensen: I kind of wish I had that claim to fame. That is impressive. I'm not sure I could if I tried. It shows you what was happening in my heart. We've definitely had moments.

I remember one time I have this walkie-talkie app and I was messaging my dad. I was getting frustrated. We had three under three at one time. They were all in the kitchen and they were asking for juice boxes or something. I turned the messaging app on and I said something grumbly to them. "You just need to wait because I'm going to get you your juice in a minute." I looked down and I clicked it off and went, oh, because my angry voice was caught on a message. That was one of my moments where I just was caught in my frustration and I felt embarrassed later.

Ann Wilson: Tell us about your families and about what you do.

Emily Jensen: I'm Emily and I've been married to my husband Brad for 14 years. We have five kids ranging in ages from 6 to 11. To do that math, you have to put a set of twins in there. That's how that works. My oldest turned five and then I went into labor the next day with our fifth. So it's really close in there. Those were some wild years that I'm still looking back and recovering from.

Dave Wilson: And you married Laura's brother.

Emily Jensen: I am married to one of Laura's older brothers.

Laura Wifler: We're family. We're sisters-in-law, which is so fun. We get to work together, which is incredible. I'm Laura Wifler. I am married to Mike and have three kids. Emily and I live about a mile apart in central Iowa, so very close to one another, which is a joy. My kids range from 10 to 6. No twins. The math works perfectly. Two of your boys right now are running around our studio somewhere. I'm really curious what they're doing. They saw that popcorn shot when they walked in. Snacks, pop, basketball. There's a Wii maybe. Going to Universal tomorrow. Life couldn't be better. They are living the best life.

Ann Wilson: You each, which is super unusual, have children that have disabilities. We're going to talk about that as we go on. You've written a children's book on it and you mention it in your other books as well. Tell us about Risen Motherhood.

I remember going to my son and daughter-in-law's house and your book Risen Motherhood was on the table. Kendall said to me, "Have you read this book?" At the time she had four kids. She said this book is getting me through these hard, hard days. I think that right after that is when we called you two and said we can't wait to have you on. One of the things you talk about is if Christ really changes everything, how does he change potty training? I laughed when I read that. These are the things we think about when we're potty training. Does Jesus even care? Is this separate? In it, this is the craziest thing, you explain the gospel.

Dave Wilson: Here's the thing. How many mothers' books have I read? But I read yours because I had to get ready for this interview. I'm seeing on the title Gospel Hope and I'm thinking, okay, how are they going to bring the gospel in? You don't just bring it in every chapter. When I read the first chapter and you go Creation, Fall, Redemption, Consummation, I'm a pastor. I preach this. I'm thinking, that's great. There's your theme. You never leave it. You pick a topic and you just go. I think it'd be great for our listeners. How would you explain that: Creation, Fall, Redemption, Consummation?

Emily Jensen: It's just a mnemonic device that helps us remember God's big story. When we think of the word creation, we're just thinking about God's design for mankind. When we're thinking about the fall, we're remembering that sin and brokenness has touched everything. The curse has touched everything in life.

Then we're thinking about redemption. We're remembering that piece of the gospel that Jesus came. He lived a perfect life. He died. He rose. Now, if you're following him, you get the Spirit, you get to be part of the church. There's hope.

Then when we talk about consummation, we're really looking ahead to what's coming when Jesus returns and all things are made new. There's perfect just judgment given. All of those pieces become little anchors that when you are processing through a practical situation and you're wondering what potty training has to do with the gospel, you can start to go through those anchors in your mind. That's how you can preach the gospel to yourself in that situation. Also know that it's part of a bigger story. This moment that you're experiencing is part of something that matters more.

Ann Wilson: Give us an example. Walk us through something in your life that you totally implemented.

Laura Wifler: It's been a while since we've done that. I'm a little bit rusty on potty training. Let me think for a hot second. A lot of the stuff that we're looking at now is almost less practical as you move out of the young years. I'm thinking through media choices. That's something that I feel like even moms of really young children are thinking a lot about media choices. That continues on.

As we think through the gospel mnemonic device, we don't claim to have invented it. Many people have used it, but it has been really handy for us and helpful. When we think about things like media choices, it's good to know that God designed us to love good stories and to enjoy fun and entertainment and things. In and of itself, all that is good, true, and beautiful comes from God, and our hearts long for that. So our kids wanting to watch a good story or be entertained or enjoy things, that's great. There's nothing wrong with that.

Then you have to think about that fall piece. Well, not every media choice post-fall is great. There's a lot of sin in there. There's things that are going to distort the truth. There's things that are not of God and we want to be cautious about what we expose ourselves to and what we're filling our minds and our hearts with.

That redemptive piece is if you're following Jesus, you want to love like him, live like him, fill your mind with all that's good, true, and beautiful. Listen to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. That's your conscience. He prompts you and helps you know what is good and what is wrong to engage in. I think then in looking at the hope of heaven, knowing that one day all media will be redeemed. One day we're going to go to heaven and it's not going to be like this. We're going to hear the best of all stories. We're not going to have to cover our eyes. We're not going to have to monitor these things. That's just an incredible hope to look forward to.

As we start to get the gospel under our skin and you start to learn to think in this way, and it is a learned way of thinking. It's not something we may naturally bend to. It's not natural. So you have to be very intentional of making it become a habit, almost like the neuroplasticity in our brains. We're going down this certain path that we haven't gone many times, but we're going to make this become a habit.

Ann Wilson: I can remember our kids being little, cleaning toilets with three little boys who are potty training. I can remember thinking I don't see any good in this. I remember being in the Word later. Even being in the Word is hard for young moms. Now I would listen to it as a young mom, but I remember just catching moments like I have to be in the Word. It's my anchor.

I remember after I can't remember what I read, but I thought that can be my worship moment. God sees. There's not a time He hasn't seen me wiping a bottom, wiping noses, cleaning the sink. All the things that I'm doing, He notices that. I could either complain and grumble about it or I could make it this worship experience of I get to do these things. My kids see my attitude about it. I just think that what you're doing is so practical.

Dave Wilson: Is that something you're being able to live out now? Because you're in a phase with younger kids. They're running around our studio right now. When we walk in our daughter-in-law's houses, we remember, because now we're grandparents. But it's like it's chaos. Every home with littles is chaos. They're good moms. They're awesome but they're exhausted and they're frazzled. You can feel the tension in the marriage because it's a hard season of your life. Talk about that for you two. You're being moms and writing about it. Is it hard?

Emily Jensen: Of course. I think that's where the identity in Christ piece becomes so important. I think if our hope for our goodness before the throne of God is in how good we're doing as a mom, that's really discouraging. We've already talked about how sometimes you kick a hole in the wall, sometimes you yell, sometimes you do things. You realize you're just unable and you fall short. You don't have what it takes to be the perfect wife and the perfect mom and the perfect homemaker and the perfect worker and the perfect friend. You're just not going to be all of those things.

But in Christ, we are fully righteous before the throne of God and we get to rest in that. Even Jesus wasn't in all places at all times. In His physical body, He was ministering to one person at a time, one group of people at a time, wherever God was leading Him that day. I take a lot of comfort in that idea that there's a lot of people who need me. There's a lot of areas where I'm maybe not doing as much as I want to be doing, but I'm following hopefully step by step, moment by moment what God is calling me to do that day. That's all I can do.

Ann Wilson: Is that the kind of thing that when you go to bed, we have that choice of beating ourselves up, feeling the shame? The enemy is the accuser. So how have you done that? I'm sure that you guys have felt that. Laura, have you felt that when you've gone to bed?

Laura Wifler: Absolutely. I loved how you said you have a choice. I think that's the thing we forget. Our heads hit the pillow and suddenly the narrative is playing that we have failed, that we have been a bad mom. Here are all the ways that we haven't done it right. Here are all the ways we're going to be better tomorrow. I think that's the moment that we can just stop and say, hold on, I want to take control of every thought and take it captive. Recognize that it's a battlefield of the mind.

That is where we can say, okay Lord, I wasn't perfect. I think it's important that we acknowledge we probably did sin that day. There needs to be confession. It's not that we just say grace, grace, grace, but we recognize these are ways that I behaved that I don't want to behave anymore. So we confess that to the Lord. We ask His forgiveness.

From there we can also look at all these other things that Satan is just heaping on. That's that condemnation that is extra that God hasn't placed there. We can ask, well Lord, is that something I should have done today? Maybe it's that we feel like I was supposed to go get these errands done or I was supposed to make this incredible party and I didn't get started planning this birthday party. Well, has God asked us to make big, huge birthday parties? That's where knowing the gospel and understanding what's in the Bible is so important for a mom.

When we do the day replay, we have to remember what God is actually asking of us. So often we're adding to the list of what a faithful mom looks like. I'll never forget someone once said to us, "I'm so thankful that God hasn't asked me to be faithful in another mom's life." That would be very, very hard. But we look at another mom's life and we think she's being perfectly faithful, she's getting it all done, she's doing perfectly. We look at ours and feel that we failed and measured up. But He only asks us to be faithful in our own.

Actually, when it comes down to it, when we understand what God has really asked of moms, it's actually quite simple. It's loving Jesus. It's loving our families. It's being faithful to our children to raise them to know and love God. All these tertiary things that I think we add on that create that end-of-day guilt are really just extras that if we thought critically for a little while, I think we'd see that so many of those things we can leave at the cross and leave them there and don't have to worry about them.

Dave Wilson: As we celebrate 50 years of ministry, we continue to hear stories of how God is transforming families through FamilyLife. Like Andrew and Eileen, for example. When they married, they were so full of hope. Weren't we all? But life's storms came fast: a newborn, family tension, and strains on their marriage. Their home just felt heavy. But God wasn't finished. Through FamilyLife's Weekend to Remember and Love Like You Mean It cruise, they rediscovered Christ's design for marriage. They were even able to help Andrew's parents reconcile after years of distance.

Ann Wilson: Which is really what it's all about. God changes our marriage so we can impact others. Thousands of couples are facing storms like this right now. Some are quietly hurting. Some are on the brink of divorce. Some need hope today. This ministry is supported financially from partners like you who say, "I believe in this and I want to give." Right now every monthly donation will be matched for a full year, doubling the impact of your gift.

Dave Wilson: We really hope and pray that you'll consider joining us. All you have to do is visit familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Together we can shape the next generation of families who walk with Christ.

I've watched Ann for 43 years of marriage now. I've watched her carry mom guilt. There's that mom shame and then there's guilt that you just addressed. Is that something you've been able to take to the cross or is it something you still carry or is it a daily, weekly journey?

Emily Jensen: I think every mom struggles with things that she regrets, moments that she looks back on in her day and thinks I shouldn't have handled it that way. Like Laura said, sometimes there's things that are just expectations we've put on ourselves that aren't from scripture. They are nice to do, but they could be from social media for sure. They can be from our friends.

One tool that Laura and I have used is just to say you always want to examine your guilt. No matter what it is, don't stuff it down or ignore it. That's what we usually see moms do is just they live with it. You internalize it deep inside and then it becomes normal. They just live with that hum of mom guilt like it's their friend.

When you look at it, there's always freedom on the other side. Either you're going to look at it and find out that this is something you actually need to confess and repent, and there's freedom there. Or you're going to look at it and God's going to give you that wisdom to say this wasn't something that I had to do anyway. This is okay. This is something I can let go and I can walk in freedom knowing that I don't have to do the elaborate birthday parties.

We were talking last night at dinner about traveling and all the different trips people take their kids on. I was telling Laura something that I rest in knowing is that that's a nice to do, but that's not God's requirement for my motherhood is to take our kids on these amazing trips. So that's something when I feel the guilt about that, I just let it go because I would love to, but that's not a biblical requirement for motherhood. If moms can just examine their guilt, then you can walk forward in freedom.

Laura Wifler: Emily and I will often say naming the feeling takes away 70% of the feeling's power. Emily said this first to me, but now I say it all the time. Naming how you feel takes away about 70% of that feeling's power. Unscientific, maybe it is scientific. Sissy Goff would agree with you. She always talks about naming the feeling.

There is something there that when we can just even when maybe we're confused, maybe it's end of day kind of the replay that's going on, maybe it's in the middle of the day and suddenly we feel anger because life is out of control or whatever it is. I have really learned that it is helpful for me to tell Emily or another good friend, here is how I'm feeling or here is what I am worried about or here is what I'm upset about. So often the moment that it comes out of our mouth, we don't even need a response quite yet. It is like it just it takes out the hotness of that feeling.

Sometimes when maybe we as moms, we do get confused or we can't see clearly, we can't preach the gospel to ourselves with how we're feeling. If we can just bring in our friends, bring in the family member, tell our husband, whomever it might be, but to tell them how we're feeling, I think that there's a lot of power in just bringing that truth to light.

Also, a lot of people look at Emily and me and they're like, wow, how did you get here? How did you learn all these things? Well, it's because we talked about it for hours and hours and hours. We have logged just days on Voxer and other ways of talking with one another where we've learned together and we've grown together. That is a huge encouragement for moms as they grow in this skill of understanding, identifying guilt, identifying shame, what you do afterwards, how to process the gospel. That is where you need to bring community in and bring in your friends and start naming things, start talking about things, being open about things and not hiding them.

Ann Wilson: I love how practical that is too. Also, telling God everything you're feeling. One of our kids called the other day and I said, "You know what you should do? Just walk to the end of your street. Talk to God, tell Him everything you're feeling." Even that, it's almost like this balloon in your chest that's full. It just deflates as you're walking. I think the friend piece is big. What are you saying to the women that say, "I don't have anybody"?

Laura Wifler: It's really common in motherhood to experience loneliness. It's also really common to believe that you are all alone and you're the only one who understands what you are going through. No one could possibly get you. At some level, everyone's life is very unique and so there is some truth to that.

But I also think that for someone who feels completely and utterly alone, at some level, my encouragement to them would be to say perhaps you have felt great sorrow because, like for me, a child with disabilities. But I have many friends who may not relate on that level of a child with disabilities, but they have known grief. They have known pain. They have known their life not going the way that they thought. So there are people that I think we can find and connect with if we perhaps have a broader view of what a friend can look like and what understanding can look like and encouragement in the gospel can look like. Suddenly friendship can be formed.

It's also putting yourself in places where you can find friends. Again, in young motherhood, often times we are isolated to our home or just going to work and back home and there are not a lot of ways to make connections or we feel too tired to make that connection or we feel like it'd be too much work to get our kids out. But it is always worth the work. It may take time. It may take a year or two or more of praying and asking God to give you a friend, but it also means that we have to go into spaces where we can make those friends.

The local church obviously is a huge place for a young mom to make friends. So many churches have incredible programs designed just for that because we know that that's a really hard season for moms. It may mean texting neighbors. It may mean getting involved in your school's PTO or in the daycare programming. There are a lot of ways if we just say, okay, I'm willing to make some effort. But I think what happens very quickly is that we sort of kind of fold in on ourselves. That's what Satan wants. He wants us to believe that there's no one out there that can get us, there's no one out there that can help us, there's no one that wants to even be a friend. But there's another mom out there, I'm sure, that feels just like you. If we can get you guys to the same spot, hopefully at your local church, there's a friendship to be formed.

Dave Wilson: Nothing like having Emily and Laura talk about motherhood. I have wanted to get these two on for so long, so it was so good to have them. Their book is called Risen Motherhood: Gospel Hope for Everyday Moments. If you want to get that book, just go to familylifetoday.com, click on the link in the show notes, and you can buy it there. Tomorrow we have Emily and Laura back with us, so we'll see you tomorrow.

FamilyLife Today is a donor-supported production of FamilyLife, a Cru ministry, celebrating 50 years of God's faithfulness as marriages grow stronger and families flourish in Him.