FamilyLife Today®

Speaker 1

That's when this work and family tension started really coming into play. More was okay. Now she's home raising the kids, and my schedule's not slowing down.

And I just remember walking into the door after a long couple weeks away, and Sarah said the words that every husband really wants to hear. We need to talk.

Speaker 2

Welcome to family life today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

Speaker 3

And I'm Dave Wilson. And you can find us atfamilylife today.com. this is family life today.

Speaker 2

Hey, you know what I'm excited about today? That we're gonna talk about true love.

Speaker 1

True love?

Speaker 2

Yeah. The kind that endures.

Speaker 3

You just surprised me. Where'd that come from?

Speaker 2

I'm just saying, this is where we're going today. Who doesn't want to hear that?

Speaker 3

True love.

Speaker 2

But not just true love like this romantic story. This is like true love that goes to the distance, that has the highs.

Speaker 3

The lows, gets in the mud.

Speaker 2

Yeah. From a famous couple.

Speaker 3

Matt and Sarah Hammond are with us. They just rolled their eyes.

If you're watching it on YouTube, you. If you're listening to audio, you want to go to YouTube.

What's really funny is they are a famous couple because the lead singer of Sanctus Reel for what, 10 years? 20 years.

Speaker 2

20 years a dove award winner.

Speaker 3

Here's what I was going to tell you. This is funny.

Speaker 1

She's not going to like this.

Speaker 3

We had John Cooper on from Skillet a couple years ago, and Ian says to him at the intro, and you won four Grammys? He goes, no, I was nominated. I didn't win any of them.

Speaker 1

Thanks for bringing. The nominations are very common.

Speaker 3

Matt has two nominations for Grammys.

Speaker 2

For a Grammy.

Speaker 3

Yeah. That's big time.

Speaker 4

No wins, but.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, but still.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3

Whoever won those Grammys, they didn't deserve it.

Speaker 2

Hey, let's do it. Let's do a game with them.

Speaker 3

All right, Go for it.

Speaker 2

Okay. We're gonna do a couple's game with you. Oh, okay, Matt, like, I want you to swivel your chair and turn this way. Yeah, yeah. So don't look at Sarah.

Speaker 4

Okay.

Speaker 2

Okay. But, Sarah, you can look at us.

Speaker 3

You can't look in the window either. Matt, you can't see her. You might have to close your eyes.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so here we go.

Speaker 4

It's.

Speaker 2

Matt, describe in detail what Sarah is wearing today.

Speaker 1

Oh, she's wearing dark blue jeans with a black shirt and a gray blazer.

It's like, I mean, it's gray. It's got like speckles of white and black in it, but it's grayish.

And she is wearing a necklace with two little rings on it and earrings that complement them.

Speaker 2

Okay, let me go a little further. True or false, is she currently wearing gold hoop earrings?

Speaker 1

I do believe so, yes.

Speaker 2

True or false? Her nail polish is. Does she have any nail polish yet?

Speaker 1

Yes, she does. It would be like a kind of a cream color. Like I'm color deficient, actually. I have a thing with my eyes. Cause I can't see color the same way and.

Speaker 2

True or false, she is wearing nude lipstick.

Speaker 1

Boy, I wouldn't know that. The color. She is wearing lipstick. I. I wouldn't be able to tell you what color it was.

Speaker 2

This is unbelievable. Can we. Okay, you can turn back. Matt.

Speaker 4

I'm not surprised, you guys.

Speaker 3

I was going to say he's an artist.

Speaker 2

I am like, I want a guy in the relationship. I am blown away by this.

Speaker 3

Hey, Sarah, close your eyes.

Speaker 1

What's Matt wearing as she was doing that?

Speaker 4

I'm like, I'm the. Not attention to detail. He's attention to detail. He's.

Speaker 2

He's a creative.

Speaker 4

He's wearing a cream shirt and a black everywhere else. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Same thing I wear every day.

Speaker 2

It is true. That's impressive. So do you.

Speaker 3

I don't even know what Ann's wearing right now. I really. I mean, I don't think I could answer that question. Like, you knew every part of it.

Speaker 1

It's a blessing and a curse. I'm kind of like a little ocd. That's incredible.

Speaker 2

Okay, Sarah, do you feel like then that Matt's sees you not only what you're wearing outside?

Speaker 4

O. I don't know if I've thought about it from like a positive angle. Meaning like the ocd kind of. He sees every little crumb on the counter.

Speaker 1

Oh, you do?

Speaker 4

Yeah. Like, so he's attention to all the details.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 4

Which can. Which overwhelm his senses. Which then. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1

Which I've learned too.

Speaker 4

But you're right, it is a compliment that he would know what I'm wearing and.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

That's incredible.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

But it's sometimes gotta bug you.

Speaker 4

I do get bothered.

Speaker 2

It's confession time now.

Speaker 3

Yeah, totally. Okay, tell us. Here's the next question. Your latest fight. You have a good one?

Speaker 1

Oh, recently.

Speaker 4

I'll let him speak to it.

Speaker 1

Okay. Okay. All right. What's the gracious way to say this?

Speaker 3

Was it recent?

Speaker 1

Well, yeah, we had a fight this morning before we came here.

Speaker 2

It's pretty bad.

Speaker 4

We were parked outside in the other neighborhood, chit chatting about.

Speaker 1

Just trying to finish the conversation. How are we gonna wrap this up? How are we gonna land the plane before we go over here? Really?

And this has happened every single time. We've had to do anything together, marriage related. We always have a fight before. It happens every time. No joke.

We'll be going, you know, just coasting. I'm thinking, man, things are just so great this season. We haven't had a fight in X amount of time, and then it's like without fail, man, we're getting ready to go do something like this.

Speaker 2

Why do you think?

Speaker 1

Well, I know why I think.

Speaker 4

I think we have two different perspectives of what we do.

Speaker 1

That's what's hard.

Speaker 2

What's hard is Sarah. What do you think it is?

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 4

In my opinion.

Speaker 2

We're talking about love stories here. You guys have a great one. Okay.

Speaker 4

Okay.

Speaker 2

So this is a part of every love story. Is this part of it?

Speaker 4

And we do fight through, we repair. So even though in this moment we haven't fully repaired that.

Speaker 1

And so you wanna keep going?

Speaker 3

We can castle.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 4

My opinion is Matt has a very highly stressful life where a lot of people are watching him. And that for somebody who's OCD and anxious, that can make your wick short. And you feel overwhelmed.

Yeah, exactly. I think his disposition, whether he knows it or not, comes out and I start to feel scared. And so then I start to react out of that.

And so, I mean, I could go further, but stop there. I think you're being selfish.

Speaker 1

Well, it started with Real Faithfully loved. Yeah, it started last night. You know, like, obviously I booked Sarah's flights and I checked her in, and I got all the hotel ready, checked into the hotel. I bought her clothes yesterday for options and put them on the bed for her in case she wanted. Well, no, like I went, I went and I picked up things. I got the whole hotel room set. I put some snacks on top of her clothes that I knew she liked. I saved my graham crackers from the southwest flight so that when she walked in the hotel room, she'd feel loved.

Okay, so I had this plan that I was gonna take her back to the hotel, which was like five minutes away, and then we would decide if we wanted to go eat somewhere. Yeah, right. As I got the car, before I picked her up, I couldn't get the carplay to work on the screen, so I had to hold the map in my hand. There were not really many restaurants around, and I was trying to text her on the plane about, "Hey, are you hungry? Where do you want to go?" But her Wi-Fi wasn't working, so I had no idea.

So I pick her up, and I'm driving with one hand, and I've got the map already set in the other hand. Both my hand and the highway, all the traffic, people are zipping around me. She goes, "If you're hungry, I don't want to go back to the hotel. Let's just go straight there." I said, "But I don't know where to go because I planned that we just run back to the hotel and make a decision there." She's like, "Well, that's silly. I don't want to go back to the hotel." I'm like, "But I have my map in my hand, and it's..."

Speaker 4

Four minutes away, and I'm finding other places. Like, let's not take the time. It's 8:30. I don't want to eat super late. Let's just go. We don't need to put the suitcases back.

Speaker 1

Let's just go.

Speaker 4

So then.

Speaker 2

So one is a planner, and one is a planner, and one is spontaneous.

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 4

And mind you, I had just been at home tending to all our children, getting them all set.

We both have all this super big stress, and I'm like, I'm free. Let's not stress.

Let's just bypass the hotel. Let's go eat so we can get back faster.

We just had different ideas.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I was frustrated. Cause I'm like, okay, can we just get to the hotel and decide? Essentially, my brain was like, on that.

Speaker 2

Path map of my.

Speaker 1

I was there. And she was just like, well, let's find somewhere else. I'm just like. Like, I don't know what to do. Then I missed my exit. I veered off the wrong way.

Speaker 4

And then we went all the way to Downtown Disney.

Speaker 1

All the way to Downtown Disney at like, 9. I was.

Speaker 4

Kept driving.

Speaker 1

Oh, no. Oh, man.

Speaker 3

Well, that would have been a good place to eat.

Speaker 4

He hadn't eaten all day, and he was starving.

Speaker 1

So I do think that probably, like, I thought I was being calm, but I probably wasn't because I hadn't eaten anything.

So she probably thought she was being calm when she said, "I don't want to go to the hotel." But to me, it came across as like, "So, like, I don't want to go. Yeah, like, I don't want to go to the hotel. Like, that's not an option."

And I'm like, I just don't know what to do. I think I felt helpless in a way. Does that make sense? I felt helpless and I was hungry.

Speaker 4

So there you go. And then it continued. We were fighting.

Speaker 3

Why are you fighting this morning, though?

Speaker 1

Same kind of thing. Same thing.

Speaker 4

I think he.

Speaker 1

She wanted to sit down for a while, and I was like, well, can we just finish getting ready and then we can go sit and have some coffee. She's like, I don't want to have coffee. I want to sit down.

Speaker 4

We have two girls in the room.

Speaker 1

She's like, I want to sit down and relax.

Speaker 4

He's an artist, and so his feelings are hurt and he needed some repairs. And I'm just like, let's just be happy and just go. And so, you know, let's just get.

Speaker 1

Ready and be happy.

Speaker 4

So there's two repair. Yeah. So.

Speaker 2

But this is so common in normal. The part that you lays out the clothes and all that stuff. That's pretty sweet. Like, that's like, okay, you just put.

Speaker 3

Every husband under the pile. Now what? I'm supposed to lay out her clothes.

Speaker 1

I can give you a list of all the things I do wrong, I tell you.

Speaker 2

But Dave and I, we often get in little. These little tiffs right before we get up to.

Speaker 3

Often is the right word.

Speaker 2

Not as often anymore. Yeah, but I perceive it as. He gets super short and snappy because he's stressed. Yeah, but I take it personally.

Speaker 1

It's usually right before we walk on stage.

Speaker 2

Right before. Right.

Speaker 3

I don't know if you're like that as a singer, but I'm like that as a preacher.

Speaker 1

Yeah, maybe not. Well, I think leading up to, like I said, we're gonna try together. When you guys are speaking together, like, I'm usually speaking or singing on my own, so we don't. I don't even have to deal with that.

But yeah, the dynamics of coming into this, it was that it was just like some of the nerves, some of like the. Just trying to stay connected.

Speaker 2

And there's also spiritual warfare.

Speaker 4

I think that's it for sure. From the moment we scheduled this interview, it was sort of like it revved up a little bit.

Speaker 2

Did you hear that, listeners that mean, this is going to be good. This is going to be good. It already has already somebody out there.

Speaker 1

Going, okay, thank God, I'm not alone.

Speaker 4

I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

And that is. That's the beauty of a love story. It's the picture of God with his people.

Speaker 3

How long has this love story been going on?

Speaker 1

24 years.

Speaker 4

24 years. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Wow.

Speaker 3

I didn't know it was that long. You guys look so young.

Speaker 1

25 next July.

Speaker 2

So this book has been out a little bit. Yeah, but tell us about it. Let's just like, tell us what the title is and what made you write this.

Speaker 1

In about 2008, Sarah had been home for a little while with our kids after because she toured us. I guess I should really back it up to when we started. I started the band Sanctus Real with my friends.

Speaker 4

You were 16?

Speaker 1

Yeah, we were 16 years old. So we were, you know, we were independent band for a while. Met Sarah when I was 19. By the time we were 21, we signed a record deal. And Sarah and I got married the same year in 2001.

Speaker 2

Wait, I need you to go back and tell us how you met her.

Speaker 1

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3

It's like a glowing.

Speaker 2

I know.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So we were playing a music festival in Columbus, Ohio. We played early in the day that night, third day was playing.

I was sitting kind of up on the hill looking down at the stage, and I just saw her on the outskirts of the crowd down there just dancing and laughing and smiling. She had overalls on and bare feet. She looked so carefree.

It really was kind of like OCD. I saw carefree and thought, this woman completes me.

Speaker 4

And that's been the love story.

Speaker 1

And I just thought she was beautiful, you know? And I was too anxious to talk to her that night. Story of my life.

I got up the next morning to lead worship at a community-wide worship service. I didn't know her parents and her grandmother's church were all part of this gathering, and they had invited her to come up as well to be with them.

So I get up there on stage to lead worship, and I look out and I see her there the next morning. After I sang, I went and I introduced myself to her and pretty quickly fell in love.

Speaker 3

Is it the same for you? Are you looking at him like?

Speaker 4

I actually was hoping he was looking at me at that big festival. I was trying to kind of get in his line of sight because I was like, oh, he's so cute. And he knew my brother.

The next day, I did not know he was going to perform at that thing. And then he happened to be there.

So I had hoped he would come up to me, and he did.

Speaker 2

That's a God thing.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it is.

Speaker 3

How much longer before you were married?

Speaker 1

So, yeah, about almost two years. You have September of or August. September is kind of when we started dating in. In 1999.

Speaker 2

And where was your career at that time? How were you guys doing with Sanctus Real?

Speaker 1

Yeah, so we were kind of just at that time, we had artists like Audio Adrenaline and Toby Mac, all had labels. Goatee Records, Toby had, which actually, funny enough, I'm an artist on now. But he had looked at Sanctus Real. The Audio A guys were trying to get us to sign with their record label, Flickr, at the time.

We ended up going with Sparrow Records, but it was all kind of culminating around that same time I met her. That we were gonna, you know, get our thing. You always dream of, at least in those days. Nowadays, a lot of kids want to be independent, you know, may get famous on their own through social media, but back then, it was the record label getting a record deal.

Speaker 2

Sarah, what did you think? Like, you kind of had an idea of what your life could look like, maybe with an artist?

Speaker 4

Yeah, I'm so carefree. I didn't think much about it.

Speaker 2

You never even thought of that?

Speaker 4

My dream was always, dad, get married and have babies. And so it was like, okay, then I'll just support your dream. Because I don't have a particular passion that I need to go chase after. I'll be the support. Essentially.

We were very young. We even look back, we're like, wow, we were young. I mean, that. Almost too young, you know. But we did it.

Speaker 2

So you did it.

Speaker 3

And a lot of people think, yeah, I got a record deal. You're making all this money, and it's just this glorious life, singing and being famous. It wasn't that at all.

Speaker 4

Poor for many, many years.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

I write in the book, even at some of the seasons, that people would have thought we'd been making a lot of money. I saw some pretty bold numbers in there.

Once you pay all the expenses, especially for bands, it's a lot easier for solo artists because they own everything. They own all their own merchandise and all that, and a lot of the royalties go to them.

But when you're a band, you split everything four or five ways. You're all paying. It's just a lot. So we were poor for a lot of years, and it was hard.

Speaker 4

Just feeling fulfilled and, I mean, outside of our conflict. Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2

Were you traveling with Matt?

Speaker 4

Yeah, for the first five years I traveled. Wow. I got pregnant with Emmy, year six.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 4

And then I stayed. I was six months pregnant. We hadn't gotten our tour bus yet. We hadn't had a big song quite yet.

So I'm six months pregnant in between the back row of a Ford van and the back door, bouncing around on a sleeping bag with him sleeping. And I'm like, I should probably get off the road. This probably isn't healthy for my baby.

And so at six months, I got off the road, and then that was it. I would come out on the tour bus. Once I got a tour bus, I could come out with the kids. So that was nice.

Speaker 1

That's when the tension. I think of just me trying to figure out, like, how do I keep pursuing this dream while I'm away from home? It was like we had that adventure together for, you know, the first four or five years, and then I just felt like, okay. That's when this work and family tension started really coming into play. More was okay. Now she's home raising the kids, and my schedule's not slowing down.

And that really was the tension that the song "Lead Me" came out of. I remember coming home probably seven or eight years after we were on the road, and probably about 2008, and we were kind of in that point where we were figuring out, like, okay, like, where are things going with this? Like, things are still growing, but are they growing fast enough for us to, like, keep pursuing this dream?

And I just remember walking into the door after a long couple weeks away, and Sarah said the words that every husband really wants to hear. We need to talk.

Speaker 3

That's when I run.

Speaker 1

Yeah, okay. Yeah. And we did.

In the cycle of conflict that we were in, it was really difficult for me, I think, in that moment, to not feel defensive. And that's just, like, the nature of it, right?

Like, you're like, well, oh, yeah, we need to talk. Well, yeah, we do need to talk. I got some things to say, too. You know, that's how you feel initially.

Speaker 2

Let's hear the sides. Sarah, what was going on on with you? How many kids did you have at the time?

Speaker 4

So, yeah, I was gonna say that we were on baby number two. So we had already had another child.

Matt and I, we really like each other. Like, we enjoy. We're best friends. We're very emotionally connected.

When we're good, we're great. Our issue's conflict management. That's really always only been our issue: conflict management.

Speaker 3

That's not a big deal.

Speaker 1

Just conflict.

Speaker 3

No, no big deal.

Speaker 4

So outside of conflict, everything's perfect. I mean, I. We love each other, but I just felt like being in a band, it's like it was dictated everything. And so if the guys needed him on the road for 30 days, our salary didn't change. But his schedule changed, and so it wasn't like, okay, you're gonna go out and bust, you know, do five more shows this month. And that is going to benefit us how? It didn't. It would just benefit a business. You know what I mean? So it was really hard to let him go all the time.

And then when he was home, I. He. We were. Like I said, we were really young when we got married. And the more I reflect, I think we didn't leave and cleave properly, maybe in some ways. And I think he would come home maybe with some expectations, and I would also have expectations. And then they. We were just disappointed every time he came home.

Speaker 2

This Valentine's Day. What if you skipped the roses?

Speaker 3

Okay, that's fine.

Speaker 2

Well, maybe not. And you dove into conversations meant to draw you closer, the ones you were secretly too scared to have.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 2

And for more, go to familylife.com marriage after dark because intimacy shouldn't stay in the dark. I'm thinking of our listeners who, like, their spouse, has a job, and it's becoming overwhelming for either husband or the wife.

Speaker 3

I mean, this is our marriage. I'm guessing a lot of marriage, I'm not on the road, but I'm gone a lot. And she's really resentful.

Speaker 2

And even when you're hurt, sometimes you're not present. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And also, I don't know about you.

Speaker 3

She's talking about me now.

Speaker 4

I'm just saying.

Speaker 2

I'm just thinking about all of us with our spouses and expectations and the way that goes. And it's hard to know how to navigate that when you're disappointed, when you feel like, wait, you're not living out your end of the deal.

Speaker 4

I was resentful about his attitude when he would come home. And so it wasn't that he was gone. I was fine with him being gone. I had a mom and a dad, and his parents were around. I had help. I didn't like his attitude when he.

Speaker 1

What was it?

Speaker 3

What's his attitude?

Speaker 4

Like, your disposition? Meaning, like, I didn't like that you weren't fully present or you were frustrated or you had anxiety or you were carrying all this.

Speaker 1

Maybe it was an attitude.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I'm sorry. Maybe that's not the right word.

Speaker 3

I mean, was he, like, coming home and his mind was still.

Speaker 1

Well, I remember one of the main things she said to me when she wanted to talk that day.

And by the way, I will say, as much as we were in that conflict in that moment, one of the miracles of this moment that the song came out of was that I think God really helped in that moment me to just be quiet and listen and actually hear what she was saying to me.

And I do believe that God also gave her the grace in that moment to say it in a way that was really grace, that her tone was full of grace as well.

Speaker 2

Let's hear what it sounded like.

Speaker 4

And when I say attitude, I mean his disposition. Like, he came home with all the heavy weight of every person in his line who told him the saddest story they had. You know, the weight of carrying a huge band and all of their family's salaries and insurance, and he's gotta make art that will sell albums. I mean, he had so much weight and pressure on his back.

So I understand he had a ton. But when he was home, I think he needed to kind of escape, probably mentally, but then he would escape from us. Does that make sense? And so.

Speaker 2

And your expectation is your home engaging us?

Speaker 4

Yes. And you're the leader of our ship, not me. I want you to take over now. You're in charge. You be the boss.

Speaker 2

Is that what you said?

Speaker 4

I mean, I've always been kind of.

Speaker 1

I remember her saying, "It's like, you're here, but you're not here. Thank you for providing for us, like. Cause, you know, we're paying our bills. At that time, even though we didn't have a ton of money, it was getting better."

But she's like, "But I need you emotionally and spiritually to be present here and lead us in that way."

Speaker 3

I mean, in some ways, that's the longing of every wife's heart.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 3

I remember one time I walked in the door, and again, I'm not on the road like you, but I was very busy starting a church. And it's growing. I remember our boys were little.

I walked in the door. This was before cell phones. Think about that. There was no distraction like a cell phone. It was just your mind was still not there.

I walk in the door, and Austin, our youngest, yells, "Daddy's home." And Anne's in the kitchen. He goes, "Yeah, he's standing there, but he's not home yet."

Speaker 4

Yeah, that type of vibe. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Of course.

Speaker 3

The kid's like, what do you mean? He's standing? And I'm like, I'm hearing what she's saying. And she was right.

Speaker 2

Well, go back.

Speaker 3

I probably wasn't gonna be there for maybe the whole day, even though I'm.

Speaker 4

That's exactly right. And it was constantly that. It was constantly that.

Speaker 2

And that's really hard. As listeners, you're like, we all get it. And we, as both men and women, can slip into that.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Well, what a great day with Matt and Sarah.

Speaker 2

I just love these guys. I love how different they are. I love Sarah's honesty and Matt's honesty.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And, you know, the story we've been getting about their life is in Matt's book, *Lead Me*.

And you can get it at familylifetoday.com. Click on the show notes and go buy that book. I'm telling you what, it's everybody's story.

Because that tension of going from good intentions to action is a challenge for all of us. So I encourage you to get it.

Speaker 2

We know life is full of challenges, and families today need biblical truth more than ever. Isn't that true?

Speaker 3

That is true.

Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

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